Let's say you and I do a photo shoot (paid or TF) with the stated possibility that I might submit the photos to a publication...no one in particular, just whomever eventually might be interested.
Would you sign a release at the time of the shoot that basically says I have your permission to submit the images to any publication I see fit?
Sendu
Posts: 3,448
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom
Del Geno Durham wrote: Let's say you and I do a photo shoot (paid or TF) with the stated possibility that I might submit the photos to a publication...no one in particular, just whomever eventually might be interested.
Would you sign a release at the time of the shoot that basically says I have your permission to submit the images to any publication I see fit?
You wouldn't want to ask them for permission to submit, since you don't need it and it would be useless to you. What you'd need to ask for is a release granting permission to publish the photographs. Remember that you don't need the release; the publicationmight want it.
Would you [the model] sign a release at the time of the shoot that basically says the photos can be published in any publication I see fit?
Some models may be apprehensive about the "I see fit" part. If you narrowed that down (eg. "in any fashion publication as an editorial"), you'll get more people willing to sign. In any case, it's a reasonable question and anyone that would say "no" you simply don't work with.
We usually sign model releases before a shoot that states that the photos are credited to the photographer and outlines the basic terms of their use as (for both parties) as well as the photographer's intention for them (portfolio, publication, etc). There should be a conversation to go along with that at the time of its signing, so that any hard limits can be brought up and any questions can be clarified. Once the model and the photographer are on the same page and in agreement, you're set to move forward as you wish within the guidelines of the release you both signed. I would of course notify the model of anything being published simply as a courtesy, but the permission part should be taken care of well in advance.
Part of my MODEL RELEASE that's signed at the time of the shoot states this:
In consideration of my engagement as a model, upon the terms herewith stated, I agree to the following as related to Del Geno Durham - Photographer:
a) He has the unrestricted right and permission to copyright and use, re-use, publish, and republish photographic images of me or in which I may be included intact or in part or composite.
b) He is not permitted to sell, make a gift of, or submit to any publication or individual not connected with or participating in the production of these images without my written consent. (Examples of participation: makeup artist, hairstylists, wardrobe stylists, etc.) I, however, have the unrestricted right to use any images given or sold to me by said photographer in anyway I see fit.
In my mind, Part A means that if I have a publication or if I decide to create a publication of my own, I can use the images for that publication without additional "say so" from the model.
A portion of Part B means that if I want to submit the images to a publication that I am not affiliated with, then I need the model's written approval to submit to THAT publication. Once I've found a publication I'd like to submit to, then I would e-mail the model another short release form stating exactly which magazine I want to send the pictures to. If they're comfortable with it, then they would scan and e-mail the signed form back to me.
I want to do this so that the model has at least SOME "say so" on where the images possibly end up.
I guess I wanted to see how models feel about the idea of possibly signing more than one release in an instance like this. Or, is there such a thing as one blanket form that a model would be comfortable signing that covers predetermined publication submissions as well as undetermined submissions?
Sendu
Posts: 3,448
Cambridge, England, United Kingdom
Del Geno Durham wrote: a) He has the unrestricted right and permission to copyright and use, re-use, publish, and republish photographic images of me or in which I may be included intact or in part or composite.
You don't need their permission to copyright the work. "use and re-use" and "publish, and republish" seems like nonsense pseudo-legal talk.
"He has my permission to publish photographic images of me or in which I may be included intact or in part or composite."
This lets you publish anywhere you feel like...
b) He is not permitted to sell, make a gift of, or submit to any publication or individual not connected with or participating in the production of these images without my written consent. (Examples of participation: makeup artist, hairstylists, wardrobe stylists, etc.)
...This, however, stops you publishing anywhere you feel like, so makes a) completely pointless. I have a feeling (though IANAL) that contradictory clauses like this are a Bad Idea in contracts.
I, however, have the unrestricted right to use any images given or sold to me by said photographer in anyway I see fit.
And this is horrific. Why are you granting the model a usage license that allows them to sell and profit from your photos, while denying yourself any way of profiting from them? Say it with me: "I am not the model's slave".
Anyway, your 2 clauses as you have them are utterly worthless to you. They grant a massive excess to the model while giving you absolutely nothing in return. This isn't rocket science. You want their permission to publish. So just ask for that and be done with it.
Or, is there such a thing as one blanket form that a model would be comfortable signing that covers predetermined publication submissions as well as undetermined submissions?
You could use language similar to what I suggested in my previous reply.
K I C K H A M
Posts: 12,954
Los Angeles, California, US
Sendu wrote:
You wouldn't want to ask them for permission to submit, since you don't need it and it would be useless to you. What you'd need to ask for is a release granting permission to publish the photographs. Remember that you don't need the release; the publicationmight want it.
Would you [the model] sign a release at the time of the shoot that basically says the photos can be published in any publication I see fit?
Some models may be apprehensive about the "I see fit" part. If you narrowed that down (eg. "in any fashion publication as an editorial"), you'll get more people willing to sign. In any case, it's a reasonable question and anyone that would say "no" you simply don't work with.
I agree with all of this.
For me, personally, it would depend on what the release said. An all-inclusive commercial release for TF would be quite rare, but a release for publication would usually be acceptable.
K I C K H A M
Posts: 12,954
Los Angeles, California, US
If it helps, I've worked with photographers on trade and then they later decided to submit, and I was fine with sending over my signed copy of the release.
You probably won't have much trouble with hobbyists/MM/freelance models when you say "I want to get this published in a magazine."
But, sometimes with agency models they have to call their agency and run the release by them first.
Del Geno Durham wrote: a) He has the unrestricted right and permission to copyright and use, re-use, publish, and republish photographic images of me or in which I may be included intact or in part or composite.
You don't need permission. If you click the shutter, you own the copyright.
The rest isn't worded very well. Get a standard release.
Del Geno Durham wrote: b) He is not permitted to sell, make a gift of, or submit to any publication or individual not connected with or participating in the production of these images without my written consent. (Examples of participation: makeup artist, hairstylists, wardrobe stylists, etc.) I, however, have the unrestricted right to use any images given or sold to me by said photographer in anyway I see fit.
This contradicts what it says in "a". This is completely ridiculous! Who wrote this shit! Get a standard release.
Lucas_Smith
Posts: 207
Los Angeles, California, US
Sendu wrote: Some models may be apprehensive about the "I see fit" part. If you narrowed that down (eg. "in any fashion publication as an editorial"), you'll get more people willing to sign. In any case, it's a reasonable question and anyone that would say "no" you simply don't work with.
If she's repped by an agency, just ask the agency-- 99% of the time, they won't need any paperwork. But the above poster is correct: it's the magazine who will most likely need a release from the model.
If the model is not repped, and especially if it's a sexier/nude shoot, then definitely be forthcoming: not so much in a release from her to you, but ASK her if it's ok that your images of her will be published-- that's just a courtesy more than anything. But nonetheless, the magazine will most likely need a release from her anyway.
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