JoJo

This is OUTRAGEOUS!

Don't wait a second longer. Go to his studio now and begin your non-violent protest until you get those TF pics.

Oh and take photos and post them here or it never happened.

Do you  REALLY think you will get photos worth using if that's what you have to do to get them?

Sometimes photographers are dicks and they do not do what they promised. Sometimes, it's better to just move on to a new shoot...

+1

It happens.  Have you tried contacting him to see where the proofs are?  Have you called him, sent an email or message here on MM?  If so, what was his answer?  None at all or that he was delayed.

Don't plan a sit in until you have reasonably exhausted regular means of contact.

There is no excuse for the photographer not responding to your email/calls to explain he has been delayed for whatever reason, or that he won't be providing images for whatever reason (dog ate his memory card, he hates them all). 

But really, the best thing is to send another message, ask for them nicely and if nothing happens move on to the next shoot.

Remember that you might not just be burning the one bridge but many others if you become hostile or appear to be a diva.  Photographers talk to each other about models and you could end up losing other shoots with responsible photographers if you come of wrong to this guy.  Note: I am not saying you would be a diva by asking for photos, but the photographer may well think so.

No, I don't think anyone should think that. But I see it all the time too. I absolutely hate this notion that just because it's a TF* shoot that there is some lowered expectation and that the rules change. Don't lower your expectations just because it was payment in images and not cash.

TF* is a form of compensation. No different than being paid cash and the expectations should be just a high on both sides of the camera as if the photographer or model was getting cash.

My biggest issue isn't the time...though I think it's personally excessive, it's the broken promise. You were promised proofs in 1 week so even 2 weeks would be a failure to deliver. But 2 months is completely unacceptable.

Handle this as if you were a business owner and a customer was 2 months overdue on a payment. What would you do in that case?

It's great to hear this from a photographer. That's how I feel. It just irks me, because I don't appreciate being taken advantage of. Nor should any other model allow that to happen.

No offense to you, but that mentality is total crap. Burning bridges, photographers talk..oooo. So someone should keep quiet and move on because of this almighty power a photographer has to ruin a career? Utter nonsense.

First of all, there might be a handful of photographers in the entire industry with the power to ruin a career and maybe 1-2 of them are on MM. Should the OP really worry that some hobbyist is badmouthing her over some nachos and a Bud Lite at a local Meet & Greet?

Let's turn the tables. You are hired by Apple for a project. They fail to pay you. Are you going to lay down and say, "Oh gee, I better move on because they could ruin me." Or are you going to go through the same collection process you would as if it were Mrs. Babcock at the local hair salon?

This perception that photographers can ruin careers is just absurd.

Don't wait any longer, in fact take it one step further than just going there and sitting.

Get 10-20 friends, have signs printed "JoJo wants her photos" and have you and your 20 friends picket in front of his place until you get what was agreed upon from the photographer.

I just hate reading all these these threads, where the models are always waiting too long to get their photos. Photographers should do better to make TFP  great for both parties!

Take a look at this site (or any similar site) and notice the tone of the letters between the 30, 60 and 90 day (final) notice.

http://www.cleaningalliance.com/collect.aspx

I look at this no different than if a client failed to pay me monetary compensation. And you're right, move on, is horrible advice in my opinion because it only enables the person even more. If there is no fear of repercussion...

I find the failure to respond with any explanation what makes this most troubling.

See the thing is he does take nice pictures. I've been looking at his port and he's added some new stuff, so he's obviously still working. Like I said in the message I sent him...if they sucked, just tell me, but I still want to see them.

If you've gotten to the point of not caring about "burning your bridges", do you really care about getting the pictures & if so, would you actually use them?

I edit my own images as well, it's so much easier, plus you can take your time with it and the only person you're delaying is yourself.

There's a couple of pictures I know I'll want because the outfit was adorable, lol. I actually care about getting the pictures. I invested a lot of time and effort into that shoot. It was over 3 hrs long, cold, my last shoot of the day, I was in extreme pain (back issues) but I did my part, didn't get home until midnight.

Would I use them? Well if they were good...yes, probably just on my website.

This is what frustrates me a little here in the forums. A person, whether they're the photographer or model, can do everything right & sh** just may still not pan out.

Take a look at it from the photographer's perspective. Its a Catch-22. If they own up to it, they risk looking like a dumbass & being bitched out in public & a person to be avoided. If they don't own up to it, they look like an asshole for not delivering the pictures & risk being bitched out in public & a person to be avoided.

As a primarily location photographer, I've had bad weather crimping on things (one time we had a summer storm make 1p look like 7p...or even cold messing up the juice of ALL my batteries...wind going crazy...to name just a few). Sometimes the rapport just isn't there where one person's deep body of work, didn't make for the best working relationship. I've had personality conflicts. Or the high hopes we mutually had for each others work couldn't hope to meet the high expectations. I've had my computer crash at a VERY inopportune time & forced to either borrow or use a public computer or do it all on someone's smart phone.

But you CANNOT say you got nothing out of the shoot. You gained a learning experience. Its up to you as to what it is you take from that experience that's the great unanswered question.

I get your point but it wasn't a TFE (trade for experience) shoot. It was TFP. Yes I gained experience from it, but that wasn't the only reason I invested my time and money into that shoot. A lot of times models invest their own money; gas, shoes, clothes, hair, nails, make-up. Life happens, things go wrong, but when they do, you tell those people you have a responsibility to.

If the shots were horrible, his computer imploded, his life flipped upside down, I can understand...IF he is courteous enough to tell me. I should not have to chase someone like a bill collector.

I'm sure she also got to see some pretty sites on the drive and confirmed that her headlights were working properly on the drive back from the studio at midnight.

Come on now. A learning experience? I'm all for finding a silver lining but I'm curious what someone learns from this and how much value that holds?

I don't think the OP would have agreed to the arrangement if the compensation was "a lesson in conflict resolution."

Let me ask you this. If you purchased something on Overstock.com, paid for it, and the item was never delivered as promised would you have the same "oh well, nothing you can do...be more selective about your chosen retailers..." advice?

Or is the "Oh well. Move on" philosophy because it was "only" a TF* shoot and involved a few photos and nothing of any real value?

For starter's "value" is completely relative. I may "value" getting paid w/ a nice bottle of Merlot or a bottle of Jack but you may not necessarily share that value.

What can a person learned from a "failed" shoot. How about:

1. What makeup works & what may not.

2. What outfit ensembles work & what didn't.

3. They got practice posing in a (so to speak) live-fire environment which is VERY different than doing it in front of the mirror.

4. The model could have hit on a shoot idea that's worth expanding.

5. The model could have discovered a location going to the shoot itself.

6. Perhaps the value of getting a good nights sleep.

7. Perhaps the route they took to the studio/location wasn't the most efficient

& that's just for starters.

Yeah, doing something you set out to do & not having it pan out really does suck. But how person responds & learn those "failures" is just as valuable as those "successes". This isn't limited to the model/photography realm but holds true about life in general.

What can a person learned from a "failed" shoot. How about:

1. What makeup works & what may not:  **wouldn't know, haven't seen the proofs

2. What outfit ensembles work & what didn't: **wouldn't know haven't seen the proofs

3. They got practice posing in a (so to speak) live-fire environment which is VERY different than doing it in front of the mirror: **I can do that at home

4. The model could have hit on a shoot idea that's worth expanding: **It wasn't an "omg I've never seen that before theme."

5. The model could have discovered a location going to the shoot itself: **Studio shoot.

6. Perhaps the value of getting a good nights sleep: **a model should already know that

7. Perhaps the route they took to the studio/location wasn't the most efficient: **It's DC, we take the subway and if not there is not better route, it all sucks.

**I'm not trying to be argumentative, just showing you how the silver lining thing doesn't really work. **

Part of the TF* shoot experience is knowing sometimes those experiences aren't remotely what you expected. Unless you're expecting to take the photographer to small claims (which costs money to file) & then sue for damages (last time I checked 100% of $0 = $0)...this is why people routinely say to just move on. Just because you got stiffed out of your pictures doesn't mean the next model will. Same w/ just because your previous photographer stiffed you, doesn't remotely mean the next person will.

Besides if you've networked right, the "word of mouth" is a ridiculously power thing.

Again, I sympathize that you have expenses but how am I or any other person supposed to care. I have studio rent & have to pay for my lenses & cameras & the time spent when someone no-shows. The makeup artist has to pay for their brushes & makeup & gas. We ALL have expenses we incur.

You want a lesson. Cool! Never spend more on a project/trip/whatever that you cannot afford to lose should things go south.

That's exactly the kind of mentality that should be shunned. So because you have to spend time and money in the studio for someone that's a no-show, another model has to deal with that apathetic attitude? Sorry but that mentality is just as inconsiderate as not giving someone what they were promised.

I personally take those things into consideration, because I want others to do the same. Not only in modeling but other aspects of life, treat others as you wish to be treated.

I work full time, and I can afford to invest in my trade, but does that mean that I should accept someone else not being responsible and professional?

Not responding is the problem. You might drop by his studio to ask.

He may be behind due to lots of paid shoots. He may have had an illness. Just like models, photographers have grandmothers that die, too. Not excuses, but reasons that he might have for the delay. Then there's the possibility he looked at the images and was not happy with his work in any of them.

Stopping by his studio, you can ask to see the proofs. Maybe pick out a couple for him to edit. Or schedule a reshoot if the first ones had problems. Realize stopping by unannounced may interrupt another shoot. If so, ask when you can return. Just do not take the "I'll get back with you" as an answer. Get a date and time.

No need to get upset. Work with him until you determine he has no intent on providing his end of the agreement. If he won't deliver, just cross him off your list.

1. You've never looked at yourself while in the mirror?

2. See response #1

3. Pretty hard to take direction when you're by yourself.

4. You've never had a random idea pop in your head & then convinced the photographer in question to simply run w/ it? If you haven't, I kinda feel sorry for you. A good 15% content I shoot arise that way.

5. All the more reason to keep your eyes open ON THE WAY while you're on route.

6. You'd be VERY surprised.

7. Nice try but I used to shoot frequently in DC (had friends who lived there before they migrated). Again, you'd be surprised the places you can shoot if you keep your eyes open & are just a schmidge bit adventurous.

Oh I agree. I'm not sitting around not doing anything else because I'm waiting for his shots. To be honest it's become more of a principle issue at this point. And it takes me a minute or two to send an email every couple of days. I figure eventually, he'll want me to leave him alone and just give me what I'm asking for.

The idealist in me is just bothered by the fact that people don't follow through with things anymore. It makes me wonder, at which point did it become ok to be unprofessional and unreliable in business settings.

It's a moot point. Just not realistic.

Side note: mirrors are not a reliable source. What a person sees in a mirror is affected by many things, but primarily perception. Make up in a mirror doesn't look the same as it does on film. In order to know whether make-up worked, I'd have to see how it looked on film, not in a mirror.

:-)

After commenting on each other's portfolios we began discussing a TFP shoot and set it up.