on my portfolio i do say i'll be bringing an escort, (i say my boyfriend to scare away the creeps. :p) but i get these photographers messaging me saying how unprofessional it is and tells me to take time to read threads and honestly insult my personal intellect and it's just kinda like well if you don't like it then don't shoot with me? i was almost raped at a shoot, (he was reported and everything, it was on my old modelmayhem profile) and honestly, i'm not going to risk it again, because not only did it trigger my ptsd but it just well it made me take a looonnng break from modeling and it was terrifying. i don't see why photographers must go out of their way to message me personally, and sometimes they don't even live in the same state. it just ug. i'm sorry, maybe i'm just ranting. my question is does this always happen to models and how do you go about handling it? delete the message? blow it off? confront them?
i guess i got rid of one guy, apparently i can't take "professional advice" and i wont be getting anywhere because i'm too "butthurt" so he blocked me. one down three to go!
I'd not give them the comfort of a reply honestly. Block them, move forward. You don't need to explain yourself to strangers.
While some photographers can disagree with you, the unwarranted opinions and pushyness is a red flag for that photographer, and you won't want to work with them anyway. The professional ones would just skip and move on.
I'm sorry for what you've been through. I've been there myself, though not with anyone related to the industry.
If bringing along an escort is what it takes to make you feel safe, then don't take it personally when people say otherwise. I think there are valid reasons on both sides of the argument, but the most important thing is that you take care of yourself and do what you need to do. There are obviously photographers who are shooting you with an escort, and a few that I've worked with even prefer it.
Bringing an escort might close doors for you to work with certain people, but it doesn't mean the end of your career. Either way, your emotional health means a lot more than anyone else's opinion. Good for you for sticking to your guns.
Maybe I'm a creep, but I'd rather work with people who are confident and who don't assume I'm unsafe until I prove them otherwise. That's just too much work at the moment, too much hassle, and usually they don't have anything I really need or can't get elsewhere.
Not saying escorts are bad, but that sometimes we just don't want to deal with the whole issue and will move on.
thank you guys so much, i think i just took it personally and got upset, i just don't like being insulted over something i'm working on. :p but thank you guys for the replies, i just blah, i don't even know.
Honestly, I'm no fan of escorts. In my experience they tend to get in the way, complicate things, even try to take over and run the shoot. That being said, you have to go with what makes YOU comfortable. If they don't like it, screw 'em. You have your reasons for feeling the way you feel, and they don't have to be informed of WHY you feel that way. I think some may reach out with intentions of trying to give you good advice, and where it goes from there is anyone's guess. Just keep up the hard work and on the behalf of those of us photographers who aren't creepers or assholes, I apologize for those who are. (And I NEVER use profanity in forums, or anything to do business related, I try to keep it professional. But I can't sugarcoat this one.)
dbrealey photography wrote: Honestly, I'm no fan of escorts. In my experience they tend to get in the way, complicate things, even try to take over and run the shoot. That being said, you have to go with what makes YOU comfortable. If they don't like it, screw 'em. You have your reasons for feeling the way you feel, and they don't have to be informed of WHY you feel that way. I think some may reach out with intentions of trying to give you good advice, and where it goes from there is anyone's guess. Just keep up the hard work and on the behalf of those of us photographers who aren't creepers or assholes, I apologize for those who are. (And I NEVER use profanity in forums, or anything to do business related, I try to keep it professional. But I can't sugarcoat this one.)
i agree, i feel escorts are kinda like a coin toss, whenever i bring one i let them know their gonna be the photographer's bitch and do lighting if they ask, or stay outta the way if they ask, and i just pay them back by buying them food. c:
Im sorry you've had such a bad experience. If taking someone with you makes you feel more comfortable, that is your choice. You do the right thing about putting in your profile letting potential photographers know what to expect. Yes, this will limit you in who will shoot with you, but that doesnt give someone the right to attack you because you want one. They need to just move on to the next model and you should just ignore them and focus on those who you will actually be shooting with.
EmGii wrote: -i get these photographers messaging me saying how unprofessional it is
-insult my personal intellect
-i was almost raped at a shoot
-trigger my ptsd
-made me take a looonnng break from modeling
-it was terrifying.
my question is does this always happen to models and how do you go about handling it? delete the message? blow it off? confront them?
Good god, I hope all those thing don't happen to everyone!
I also have a no escort policy (but "drivers" waiting nearby, are fine), but I sure don't blame you for wanting one.
ArtisticGlamour wrote: I also have a no escort policy (but "drivers" waiting nearby, are fine), but I sure don't blame you for wanting one.
That's the thing too, and I know it's all words, but someone says "my friend needs to give me a ride" is different than "you're not safe so I need to bring protection".
I understand and respect the need for security and thought I'd provide one photographer's point of view.
As an experienced professional, I feel bringing an escort is a lazy and ineffective way to ensure personal safety and it often really detracts from the mood of the session. Having a bff present changes the mood from anything else to giggly, which is great if we're shooting a giggling expression... I usually suggest a gay male friend makes a good escort if one MUST come. They also tend to be good with on the spot styling decisions.
Checking references is easy - especially with MM. Ask another model about their experience with a photographer you're considering working with. Doing a little due diligence on a business is easy: websites, Yelp, Facebook, etc... are all at your fingertips with the Internet. I'm happy when someone does a little research on me and I feel like a session starts with rapport that wouldn't be there otherwise. I don't think one brings escorts to meetings with other professionals one meets one-on-one (like dentists, chiropractors, doctors, shrinks and lawyers), right?
My policy is to allow escorts of the client's choice when I'm paid. If I think a bad decision is being made (like bringing mom to your boudoir session), I'll suggest an alternate, but ultimately, it's my client's decision. When working TF, an escort may still come provided they are not a parent or a love interest. I'm also upfront about reserving the right to ask an escort to stop interacting with the subject, including positioning them with their back to the subject, while we're working.
There's a million ways to skin a cat. This is how I deal with escorts, and I find it works well most of the time.
Jordan Bunniie wrote: Im sorry you've had such a bad experience. If taking someone with you makes you feel more comfortable, that is your choice. You do the right thing about putting in your profile letting potential photographers know what to expect. Yes, this will limit you in who will shoot with you, but that doesnt give someone the right to attack you because you want one. They need to just move on to the next model and you should just ignore them and focus on those who you will actually be shooting with.
EmGii wrote: on my portfolio i do say i'll be bringing an escort, (i say my boyfriend to scare away the creeps. :p) but i get these photographers messaging me saying how unprofessional it is and tells me to take time to read threads and honestly insult my personal intellect and it's just kinda like well if you don't like it then don't shoot with me? i was almost raped at a shoot, (he was reported and everything, it was on my old modelmayhem profile) and honestly, i'm not going to risk it again, because not only did it trigger my ptsd but it just well it made me take a looonnng break from modeling and it was terrifying. i don't see why photographers must go out of their way to message me personally, and sometimes they don't even live in the same state. it just ug. i'm sorry, maybe i'm just ranting. my question is does this always happen to models and how do you go about handling it? delete the message? blow it off? confront them?
It is obviously pretentious and intrusive for people to message you for no other reason than to try to educate you on the problems that bringing an escort, and especially bringing a boyfriend as an escort, will cause for you in this community.
To say that escorts, especially boyfriend escorts, have a strong negative connotation would be an understatement of the century, and a topic that HAS been discussed on this site with nauseating frequency.
While there is no justification for what happened to you, requiring an escort will cause you a great deal of headache, and saying that it will be your boyfriend will only make those problems worse (even though it sounds like you are saying that under a belief it will help you avoid problems.)
Quite simply, there are a huge number of professional (and non-professional) photographers who refuse to accept escorts for very legitimate reasons, and boyfriend escorts especially so.
Typically, there should be other, better options, as an alternative to an escort, for example, including another professional who can contribute something positive to the shoot, for example, a professional makeup artist, hair artist, or a stylist.
Honestly though, the escort/boyfriend escort WILL cause you problems, fair or unfair as that may be.
Dave Veit wrote: I understand and respect the need for security and thought I'd provide one photographer's point of view.
As an experienced professional, I feel bringing an escort is a lazy and ineffective way to ensure personal safety and it often really detracts from the mood of the session. Having a bff present changes the mood from anything else to giggly, which is great if we're shooting a giggling expression... I usually suggest a gay male friend makes a good escort if one MUST come. They also tend to be good with on the spot styling decisions.
Checking references is easy - especially with MM. Ask another llama about their experience with a photographer you're considering working with. Doing a little due diligence on a business is easy: websites, Yelp, Facebook, etc... are all at your fingertips with the Internet. I'm happy when someone does a little research on me and I feel like a session starts with rapport that wouldn't be there otherwise. I don't think one brings escorts to meetings with other professionals one meets one-on-one (like dentists, chiropractors, doctors, shrinks and lawyers), right?
My policy is to allow escorts of the client's choice when I'm paid. If I think a bad decision is being made (like bringing mom to your boudoir session), I'll suggest an alternate, but ultimately, it's my client's decision. When working TF, an escort may still come provided they are not a parent or a love interest. I'm also upfront about reserving the right to ask an escort to stop interacting with the subject, including positioning them with their back to the subject, while we're working.
There's a million ways to skin a cat. This is how I deal with escorts, and I find it works well most of the time.
EmGii wrote: on my portfolio i do say i'll be bringing an escort, (i say my boyfriend to scare away the creeps. :p) but i get these photographers messaging me saying how unprofessional it is and tells me to take time to read threads and honestly insult my personal intellect and it's just kinda like well if you don't like it then don't shoot with me? i was almost raped at a shoot, (he was reported and everything, it was on my old modelmayhem profile) and honestly, i'm not going to risk it again, because not only did it trigger my ptsd but it just well it made me take a looonnng break from modeling and it was terrifying. i don't see why photographers must go out of their way to message me personally, and sometimes they don't even live in the same state. it just ug. i'm sorry, maybe i'm just ranting. my question is does this always happen to models and how do you go about handling it? delete the message? blow it off? confront them?
If these people are messaging you out of the blue to complain about your policy, block them and move on. Block them so that you will not wind up in contact with them in the future. They are asshats. It is none of their business....
but since you've brought this up here, you've made it "our" business - those of use here in your "audience".....
I do not shoot with models who want to bring boyfriends. But that is no business of mine unless you contact *me* wanting to shoot. In which case I will not belittle your intelligence or make light of your experience......
I would invite you to check my references. To see the professionally managed studio where I shoot - where there are always management on site and a lot of business going on.
If this was not enough for you to feel comfortable we would not be working together - and that is a good thing
I do not want to work with models who are going to be fearful and uncomfortable around me. And I don't want to put you or anyone else in that position. But boyfriends on set do not work out well in my experience and in that of countless others I am acquainted with..... so maybe you could think of another solution that would work for you and for the photographers who might work with you but not with a boyfriend around?
I will tell you this - most of the professionals I know would choose another model in a heartbeat over the escort issue. We are busy, professional people and do not want to deal with un-needed (from our perspective) complications.....
If these people are messaging you out of the blue to complain about your policy, block them and move on. Block them so that you will not wind up in contact with them in the future. They are asshats. It is none of their business....
but since you've brought this up here, you've made it "our" business - those of use here in your "audience".....
I do not shoot with models who want to bring boyfriends. But that is no business of mine unless you contact *me* wanting to shoot. In which case I will not belittle your intelligence or make light of your experience......
I would invite you to check my references. To see the professionally managed studio where I shoot - where there are always management on site and a lot of business going on.
If this was not enough for you to feel comfortable we would not be working together - and that is a good thing
I do not want to work with models who are going to be fearful and uncomfortable around me. And I don't want to put you or anyone else in that position. But boyfriends on set do not work out well in my experience and in that of countless others I am acquainted with..... so maybe you could think of another solution that would work for you and for the photographers who might work with you but not with a boyfriend around?
I will tell you this - most of the professionals I know would choose another model in a heartbeat over the escort issue. We are busy, professional people and do not want to deal with un-needed (from our perspective) complications.....
ArtisticGlamour wrote: I also have a no escort policy (but "drivers" waiting nearby, are fine), but I sure don't blame you for wanting one.
Andrew Thomas Evans wrote: That's the thing too, and I know it's all words, but someone says "my friend needs to give me a ride" is different than "you're not safe so I need to bring protection".
Exactly! I have no problem with someone waiting outside the "eye contact" of the model, that's NOT a distraction.
But if the model has to split her attention/focus between me and the "boyfriend" it usually turns out to be a waste of the photographer's time...and sometimes results in "drama". I don't need the "Barby+Ken" relationship photos...I need a model who's invested in OUR photoshoot.
After reading your portfolio I would just skip and move to the next model. Too many contradictions. You have no to nudes and a rate for topless shooting. You have an age of 116 and want a boyfriend to accompany you. Red Flags everywhere. After reading I would assume that you are just not comfortable shooting.
I would not write to you or complain about your choices. That just completely lacks any class.
I hope this helps you and the best of luck to you and you do look great.
i changed it to just friend on my port, i don't want any photographers to be uncomfortable. i heard this story one time where this girl was shooting and her boyfriend was with her and he tried to steal the photographer's dog. -.- no wonder they have a bad rep! and all the stories of the jealous ones. s: i was mostly saying boyfriend because i found that's good creep repellent, but i would hate to make those who aren't creeps stray away as well. i was shocked the photographer who messaged me wasn't yapping about the boyfriend but just the fact of the word "escort" like wot?
EmGii wrote: drivers, that's actually a good idea. (:
Yes, I have no problem with the model needing to feel safe! And, I also shoot at a private (gated) park that has additional private security nearby. So the model (and myself) have double safety.
Hell, I don't like to have a crowd of dirtbags whistling and cat-calling the model and eyeballing my camera equipment (while I'm focused on the camera) either. LOL! That's just as distracting.
I just want a peaceful easy-going photoshoot with an "invested" model that's focused on OUR shoot.
EmGii wrote: i changed it to just friend on my port, i don't want any photographers to be uncomfortable. i heard this story one time where this girl was shooting and her boyfriend was with her and he tried to steal the photographer's dog. -.- no wonder they have a bad rep! and all the stories of the jealous ones. s: i was mostly saying boyfriend because i found that's good creep repellent, but i would hate to make those who aren't creeps stray away as well. i was shocked the photographer who messaged me wasn't yapping about the boyfriend but just the fact of the word "escort" like wot?
If you were on this site previously AND you have the experience to ask for the rates you are asking for, it is kind of surprising that you are not familiar with the drama that "escort" has associated with that request and that topic.
Image Studios wrote: After reading your portfolio I would just skip and move to the next model. Too many contradictions. You have no to nudes and a rate for topless shooting. You have an age of 116 and want a boyfriend to accompany you. Red Flags everywhere. After reading I would assume that you are just not comfortable shooting.
I would not write to you or complain about your choices. That just completely lacks any class.
I hope this helps you and the best of luck to you and you do look great.
i totally forgot we were talking about my portfolio and not what i posted on the form, my bad? if a photographer messaged me and wanted to set up a nude or topless shoot i would gladly message him the ones i've done in the past, they aren't up anymore because i'm scared of a certain stalker finding my new profile. and how dare you doubt my age? i'm insulted.
ArtisticGlamour wrote: Exactly! I have no problem with someone waiting outside the "eye contact", that's NOT a distraction.
Same here, friends/rides are fine if they happen to be a part of transportation or some aspect of the shoot (clothing, makeup, etc), not a big deal at all. I just really don't like being assumed to be unsafe to the point where someone needs protection from me.
If you were on this site previously AND you have the experience to ask for the rates you are asking for, it is kind of surprising that you are not familiar with the drama that "escort" has associated with that request and that topic.
i did, but oddly enough i was never messaged out of the blue about it. o.o'
Yes, I have no problem with the model needing to feel safe! And, I also shoot at a private (gated) park that has additional private security nearby. So a model (and myself) has double safety. Hell, I don't like to have a crowd of dirtbags whistling and cat-calling the model and eyeballing my camera equipment (while I'm focused on the camera) either. LOL!
you're lovely. c: ❤ you see, if a photographer messaging for a shoot came off like this i probably wouldn't being an escort. :p
EmGii, as long as you say "He" will be holding a light, etc, "but not a distraction"...we all pretty much know the situation is likely a significant other...and likely a distraction.
That, and the stuff about hospital bills is likely to make many of us read "drama", and move on.
After reading your posts here, I would shoot with you as long as your "driver" could wait nearby (out of eye-shot), but your profile kinda says "drama". And It's understandable after having a close call, like you did.
Just saying...because you do seem nice to work with from this thread.
ArtisticGlamour wrote: Yup! At least I can pee on the neighbour's rose-bushes now, and they just write me off as a senile old(er) guy, and walk me home.
LOL! (kidding, I'm not quite that old yet...but it's coming soon!) Yikes!
Evie_Wolfe
Posts: 660
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
Yup, escorts, especially boyfriend escorts, have a really bad reputation.
However, you have had a horrible experience, and if that is what makes you feel safer, then by all means, do it. It will limit who works with you, but since you wouldn't be shooting at all if you didn't feel safe, that is sort of a useless point, so it's not really something you should worry about.
As for the people messaging you, they shouldn't be. It is your choice. They also have a choice - they can choose not to work with you. Spamming your inbox is not useful to you or them. At least you can laugh a little thinking that of all the wonderful, amazing things they could be doing with their time, they are sending snarky messages to people they don't know.
Maybe you could re-write what is on your profile? For example - 'Although I am well aware it will limit the amount of people wanting to work with me, I suffered an attack during a shoot which forced me to take a long break from modeling, and I now only wish to model when I have a friend present. This is not because I believe all photographers are intending on causing me harm, but rather because the attack has left me lacking in self confidence and triggered my PTSD. I understand completely if this makes you unwilling to work with me.'
I don't know if it would work, but that is what I would do. Xx
First off, I think its stupid for photographers to message you telling you that you are unprofessional when you didn't ask for their opinions. You are pretty active on the forums and I'm sure you've heard all the rants against escorts. If they have no intention of working with you, then they should leave you alone. You have a perfectly good reason for being nervous after what happened to you.
That being said, I do have some advice.
I have PTSD from a similar trauma to what you described, and I don't bring an escort with me. Anymore. I used to, but she was another model and many times the photographer would shoot us both. Sometimes she didn't shoot and she would help with my hair and makeup, or assist the photographer, so it wasn't like she was just some random person coming along with me. She was a part of the industry and she knew to be unobtrusive and quiet during shoots. Sometimes she brought a book with her and would read or do homework until it was her turn to shoot or until she was asked to help with lights or whatever. The photographers almost always found something for her to help with, and she was funny and they enjoyed having her around.
When shooting together we still encountered a couple of creepos who tried to convince us to to do things we didn't want to do. We just gathered up our stuff and left in those cases and luckily they never tried to stop us.
After the situation which caused my PTSD, I started taking martial arts. Not only did it tone muscles I didn't even know I had, but now I can throw a 200 lb man across a room, and break someone's arm without breaking a sweat. I can take guns, knives, and other weapons away from an attacker, and I know what to do to get 'safe enough' to disarm an attacker and call the police. I'm not going to say that because of my training that I'm not still afraid, but I know what to do in an emergency and that helps A LOT.
Now, before I shoot, I get at least 5 references from models and stylists that the photographer has worked with. I also look up his name on the sex offender registry. Since I've started doing this I've never had a problem. When getting references I always ask if the photographer did any red flag sort of things or acted inappropriately.
When I am shooting, I let people know the address I'm going to, the photographer's name, the times I'll be there and when we are supposed to be done, etc etc. My husband knows how to get into my MM account just in case he needs the photographer's phone number or email address if something crazy happens. This, above all else, is why I feel safe shooting without an escort now.
It will take time to heal from your experience, and until then I encourage you to do what feels safe, in spite of what others may have to say about it. But I also encourage you to try and find other ways of making yourself feel safe that don't mean having to rely on other people for help. You will never feel 100% safe until you feel empowered enough to prevent bad situations yourself, as opposed to relying on your escort to act as a bodyguard. I also think people might have a warmer attitude if you brought a girlfriend to be another model for the shoot or to do your hair and makeup instead of a boyfriend. Many photographers don't mind female escorts, not because they think they could overpower two women as opposed to a woman and a man, but because many models are more comfortable posing in front of their friends than they are in front of their boyfriends/husbands. Some poses make you look kinda goofy and a lot of women are willing to look goofy in front of a friend but not in front of their boyfriends. Especially if he hasn't put a ring on it. lol.
And speaking from experience, PTSD does get so, so, so much better when its treated. I don't know if you've ever heard of EMDR or Rapid Trauma Resolution, but look it up if you haven't. It is probably one of the best things I've ever done.
But, such is life.
(kidding, I'm not quite that old yet...but it's coming soon!) Yikes!
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