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Photographer
Picture This 808
Posts: 525
Aiea, Hawaii, US


This being your first shoot I wouldn't be so twisted up about it.  Honor your agreement give them all of the photos, then begin your post edits and show them, (and yourself,) what you can do.


Vince ptp 808
Jan 21 13 01:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Harold Rose
Posts: 2,925
Calhoun, Georgia, US


Sugar Sharai wrote:
OK, so i agreed to a free wedding shoot, on a mountain top, helicopter flight paid for, and a ride home, for a WHOLE disc of EVERY single photo i took.. I felt uncomfortable about this, and explained this once I got to meet the husband (the one who proclaims he wants EVERY photo), on the day of.

I, being new to it, and realizing this is my first gig, and the bride KNEW this as she worked with me as a model on the FIRST day i received my camera.

So, I figured being as I am only 18, the bride is the same, I didnt want to make a contract, so instead discussed over the phone in great detail as to what shots she wanted to include for sure. I got those shots no problem, however a lot of the photos i took were ruined due to lighting test shots, and over/under exposed photos.

i took 546 shots in an hour.   due to "uncle bobs" constantly in the background, NO one paying attention to being photographed, (causing squinty eyes on the snowy mountain top, bad shadows, and bad expressions, and lack of an organizational ceremony. ) and so the photos i got that were decent would probably consist of 30-40 shots worth salvaging..

however did i mention this was free, and I tried to tell the groom I was not comfortable giving all of the bad shots, he said he didnt care.

my concern is between making myself look bad, if they decide to alter, or  upload bad examples of my work. and I am also concerned of now having unsatisfied clients.

he said he wanted all of them for memories, however he doesnt realize how much those memories are worth to my reputation as a photographer, and as money out of my pocket, and hours spent editing those 546 shots so they dont embarrass me.

anyone have any suggestions?


also, they just decided to tell me NOT to upload my photos, or tag them on facebook, UNTIL they have recieved every single photo..

now i am very weary on what to do!!

I cannot say I am sorry for you..   And you probably go into something different in the future.

Jan 21 13 01:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photography by Riddell
Posts: 638
Hemel Hempstead, England, United Kingdom


Sorry, but I have no sympathy for you or the bride.
You've both very clearly made major mistakes.

Her for booking someone as inexperienced as you.
And you for taking on the work when you are as inexperienced as you are.

Thank god, this wasn't her actual wedding.
Whatever you decied to do about this shoot and your images now, I think its important that you bow out and don't even think about shooting her wedding.
Jan 21 13 01:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Burnpixels
Posts: 56
San Bernardino, California, US


LOL !!
Jan 21 13 02:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chronos Creations
Posts: 353
Benidorm, Valencia, Spain


I'm out of this one. Almost all of you are a bunch of judgemental trolls with obvious certain grudges against people who have stolen work from you.

OP is not asking for judgement, she's asking for advice. Some people already claim that she ruined the wedding. How is that exactly? She was given an hour to take photos. As an amateur she ended up maing loads, which is normal, and came out with 40 that she likes. In an hour that's about 1 good shot every minute and a half. She just doesn't want to give the rest. Everyone makes test shots, and amateur photographers make even more.

She has not ruined the wedding. She has taken 40 photos that she can use, which is a reasonable amount for 1 photographer to take in 1 hour.

My advice to the OP is to make two folders or CDs, one with the ones you like, and one with your scraps. You've already accepted to give all pics, so to keep face you should do it. 40 photos in one hour is okay.
Jan 21 13 03:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photos by Lorrin
Posts: 6,967
Eugene, Oregon, US


Chronos Productions wrote:
OP is not asking for judgement, she's asking for advice. Some people already claim that she ruined the wedding. How is that exactly? She was given an hour to take photos. As an amateur she ended up maing loads, which is normal, and came out with 40 that she likes. In an hour that's about 1 good shot every minute and a half. She just doesn't want to give the rest. Everyone makes test shots, and amateur photographers make even more.

She has not ruined the wedding. She has taken 40 photos that she can use, which is a reasonable amount for 1 photographer to take in 1 hour.

My advice to the OP is to make two folders or CDs, one with the ones you like, and one with your scraps. You've already accepted to give all pics, so to keep face you should do it. 40 photos in one hour is okay.

This a is a very good solution.

Jan 21 13 03:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C and J Photography
Posts: 1,986
Hauula, Hawaii, US


Burn a Disc with all best images in the root folder and the culls in a sub folder.

You made a deal. Is your artistic reputation more important than your ethical reputation?

Also, your rights to the images in Alberta are not what they would be if you shot in USA. Do not rely on USA copyright rules to work for your cases.
Jan 21 13 03:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
jesse
Posts: 85
Perth, Western Australia, Australia


this

George Ruge wrote:
I always go through a shoots pics and toss the OOF's, blowout's... If they don't like it F'em!!

and this

Drew Tommons wrote:
give them your best selection and offer them a full refund....smile

Jan 21 13 03:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
redbanana
Posts: 775
Lexington, Kentucky, US


I think it might be time to just walk away from this one people. I'm pretty sure at this point OP is aware of all the mistakes she made.
Jan 21 13 05:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photography by Riddell
Posts: 638
Hemel Hempstead, England, United Kingdom


Chronos Productions wrote:
obvious certain grudges against people who have stolen work from you.

Why is it everytime an amateur picks up a bit of unpaid work and screws up, and then recieves good advice from experienced professionals that happens to not be what they what to hear, do other amateurs then assume that the reason the experienced professionals are being negative towards them is because that amateur has 'stolen' work from the professionals?

Nobody has 'stolen' any work. Personally I'm not even in the same country or continent as the OP, and you'll find most professionals who give great advice (that isn't want these amateurs want to hear) are also similarly not in a geographical location that would be affected by this loss of a piece of unpaid work, that they wouldn't touch anyway.

Jan 21 13 05:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 458
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


Wow, you ignited MM with this post.  Just 1 day old and at 4 pages already.  I only read the first couple of posts so I'm sure somebody told you this already.

You shouldn't do a shoot you're not ready to do. 

Do you know your style?  Do you shoot the wedding as documentary, staged direction or both(in other words, capture or creation)?  Do you know your equipment and outdoor shooting well enough to produce great shots in dynamic demanding circumstances?  How many weddings have you done as an assistant?  Did you think that you could just pick up a camera and great pictures would just naturally occur with the press of the shutter release?  Do you know about how you should work out a contract or verbal agreement?  Did you research it? 

I could go on, but I'm sure people have already beaten the dead horse.  Bottom line, lick your wounds, move on, and learn what you're doing before you mess up on another assignment again.

EDIT:  Yeah, you could say it's easy to be negative when I've never done a wedding, but I know I don't know enough to do one which is why I've turned them down in the past and kindly referred them to somebody experienced enough to do them.
Jan 21 13 05:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhillipM
Posts: 6,425
Martin, Tennessee, US


Wouldn't this be a riot, if the OP, never had even shot this "wedding"?
Jan 21 13 05:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 458
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


ArtGlo wrote:
why is a model photographing a wedding!? and calling others uncle bobs?

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.  If she's the Official photographer and is not happy with uncle bobs messing up her shots, why is she not taking an active role in directing the couple and uncle bobs out of her frame?

Jan 21 13 06:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 458
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


Mark Laubenheimer wrote:

because model's can be photographers too.  duh.

If she was a photographer, she wouldn't be posting this thread.  Not saying models can't be photographers, just commenting on gwc (girl with camera) trying to shoot something she's not ready for.

Jan 21 13 06:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Studio 12
Posts: 193
Spartanburg, South Carolina, US


since you are just starting to shoot weddings and you did this for free (the couple knew this) then the reputation that you are trying to save is not as big of an issue as you think.  Give them the images, move on and learn from you mistakes.  You may be surprised that they don't think the shots are as bad as you do.  Brides and Grooms and easy that way.  Usually.
Jan 21 13 06:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
redbanana
Posts: 775
Lexington, Kentucky, US


Studio 12 wrote:
since you are just starting to shoot weddings and you did this for free (the couple knew this) then the reputation that you are trying to save is not as big of an issue as you think.  Give them the images, move on and learn from you mistakes.  You may be surprised that they don't think the shots are as bad as you do.  Brides and Grooms and easy that way.  Usually.

+1 I remember the first wedding I shot on my own and I thought so many were bad compared to what many principles had produced that I second shot for. I was happy and shocked to learn some of their favorites were ones I thought about trashing.

Jan 21 13 06:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 458
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


Chronos Productions wrote:
I'm out of this one. Almost all of you are a bunch of judgemental trolls with obvious certain grudges against people who have stolen work from you.

OP is not asking for judgement, she's asking for advice. Some people already claim that she ruined the wedding. How is that exactly? She was given an hour to take photos. As an amateur she ended up maing loads, which is normal, and came out with 40 that she likes. In an hour that's about 1 good shot every minute and a half. She just doesn't want to give the rest. Everyone makes test shots, and amateur photographers make even more.

She has not ruined the wedding. She has taken 40 photos that she can use, which is a reasonable amount for 1 photographer to take in 1 hour.

My advice to the OP is to make two folders or CDs, one with the ones you like, and one with your scraps. You've already accepted to give all pics, so to keep face you should do it. 40 photos in one hour is okay.

These people aren't being trolls, they're mostly telling the hard truth.  In her case the truth is pretty harsh.  Nice try though.

With a person that has failed in soo many ways, what chance do you give these 40 good photos as being something a pro would consider as passable.  Again, nice try.

Jan 21 13 06:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L A U B E N H E I M E R
Posts: 8,552
Seattle, Washington, US


David J Martin wrote:

If she was a photographer, she wouldn't be posting this thread.  Not saying models can't be photographers, just commenting on gwc (girl with camera) trying to shoot something she's not ready for.

plenty of photographers have posted threads just like this one. i don't see the need to claim that a man wouldn't have the same problem as a woman. 

as artists, we all have to start somewhere.

Jan 21 13 06:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
redbanana
Posts: 775
Lexington, Kentucky, US


Mark Laubenheimer wrote:

plenty of photographers have posted threads just like this one. i don't see the need to claim that a man wouldn't have the same problem as a woman. 

as artists, we all have to start somewhere.

I don't see where he claimed anything about a man could do better. That is you making shit up.

Jan 21 13 06:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
7imaging
Posts: 751
Tampa, Florida, US


IBS wrote:

And there is that

+1...arent you a 'model with camera'. (MWC)

Jan 21 13 06:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 3,762
State College, Pennsylvania, US


Yes, all photographers have to start somewhere, but.....

This was posted by the OP (in another thread she started) on JANUARY 12, 2013:

sooo.. its been two weeks since I have been playing around with my new/used Canon XT, with kit lens...

Have to say it: an 18 year old with ZERO respect for the art and craft of photography.

Done. (IMHO)
Jan 21 13 06:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 458
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


Mark Laubenheimer wrote:
plenty of photographers have posted threads just like this one. i don't see the need to claim that a man wouldn't have the same problem as a woman. 

as artists, we all have to start somewhere.

Guy With Camera or Girl With Camera, the end result is the same.  Messed up wedding. 

I don't buy into the BS that only men can be photographers.  I also don't buy into the BS that women are somehow naturally imbued with some special ability to shoot other women better than men because they're women. 
Holly Randall, while technically good, still shoots the same boring crap that male photographers shoot. 
I really enjoy Natalie Dybisz's work but don't think it's good just because she's a woman.

Jan 21 13 06:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
photo212grapher
Posts: 1,540
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


AVD AlphaDuctions wrote:

OP lives in Canada (as has been pointed out many times in this thread).  For your edification, if you send a CD to the Copyright Office in Canada they will return it to you.  More to the point, what is the necessity of reminding someone you own the copyright if you are suggesting deleting the mistakes? This whole thread is about the OP NOT wanting to give all the images.

Canadians can send copies of their works to the archives or whatever it is called. The main point is to register the work.

I suggested deleting the mistakes on the photographer's part - out of focus, under/over exposed, hideous composition. Leave in the closed eyes or open mouths or Uncle Bob walking behind the scene. It is these poor images you might not want your name associated, but are not necessarily your fault. Reminding them that all the images are subject to copyright (free shoot, not a work for hire) will keep them from using the good shots, too. It'll force them sit down down and negotiate a reasonable agreement.

You are meeting them halfway by showing them most of the images.

Jan 21 13 06:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Anthony J Deffina
Posts: 80
Shingle Springs, California, US


"Babtism by fire" is always painful.

You've obviously learned alot through this and at least those lessons will stick with you now.

The bottom line is that you made an agreement and you have a responsibilty to stick to it. So make two folders on a disc. Mark the first one "Negatives" and put all the shots in it. Mark the second folder "Finals" and put all the edited shots in there. Give it to them. Move on.

The most important thing you should take from this is that, "It's always the photographers fault." Not Uncle Bobs. Not the cameras. Not the weather. Not the lighting. Not anything else. If you can wrap your head around that fact and accept it. You'll have made a huge step forward.
Jan 21 13 07:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ELiffmann
Posts: 1,397
Baton Rouge, Louisiana, US


How did she mess up?!  This was a TF shoot.  Who cares if it was a wedding?  The only issue she has is how many shots to give.  So what if she's owned a camera for a month.  Put the camera on auto and my eight-year old niece is going to get properly exposed, in-focus pictures ninety-something percent of the time.  The B&G knew what they were getting into.
Jan 21 13 07:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 7,103
New York, New York, US


It's a good learning experience. Take it that way. Leave weddings to the pros, this way you wouldn't be in this mess. Weddings are hard and you need to know your equipment inside and out and be prepared for anything. You weren't. I have shot a few weddings for friends and wow! If you want to test your skills a wedding will let you know how much you really don't know.  I was not good at all!....Avoid weddings.
Jan 21 13 07:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,793
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Still flogging the OP I see...and so interesting to see postings from many people who aren't showing better work themselves. True MM advice here lol.....

OP: You definitely stepped in it with this assignment but at least you have the guts to share it. Better than some I could point out on here. Use it as a learning experience. It will either inspire you to do much better (all around) or help you realize what type of photography you want to pursue.
Jan 21 13 07:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KA Style
Posts: 1,583
Syracuse, New York, US


The horse is dead. Its been run over and then backed over again. Its dead, its dead!
Jan 21 13 07:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chronos Creations
Posts: 353
Benidorm, Valencia, Spain


David J Martin wrote:
With a person that has failed in soo many ways, what chance do you give these 40 good photos as being something a pro would consider as passable.  Again, nice try.

Are you seriously judging her pictures without seeing them? fail.

You have no idea how good or bad her pics have turned out. You have no right to judge someone's work based on your own predictions of how bad you think it will be. If she shows her pics, then you can pass judgement to her whether its good or bad, but her opinion as in another comment on this thread was " i got atleast 40 amazing photos!" which was taken within an hour.

Professionals telling someone that they should be ashamed of themselves is no advice.

Photography by Riddell wrote:
  Why is it everytime an amateur picks up a bit of unpaid work and screws up, and then recieves good advice from experienced professionals that happens to not be what they what to hear, do other amateurs then assume that the reason the experienced professionals are being negative towards them is because that amateur has 'stolen' work from the professionals?

Nobody has 'stolen' any work. Personally I'm not even in the same country or continent as the OP, and you'll find most professionals who give great advice (that isn't want these amateurs want to hear) are also similarly not in a geographical location that would be affected by this loss of a piece of unpaid work, that they wouldn't touch anyway.

Read my quote one more time, and try again.
"obvious certain grudges against people who have stolen work from you"
I didn't mean she has stolen any work. lol

I meant photographers who have had work stolen from them by people that will do stuff for free are trolling here. as in free amateurs have stolen from you before and therefore you're going after other free amateurs for doing this work.

And if you think professional advice is "You should be ashamed of yourself" and "you're not qualified to produce photographs" then we have a different view on what is good advice. In my opinion, it is NOT advice to tell someone how to FEEL. Advice is guidance or recommendations concerning prudent future action. I am unsure to how telling someone that they are not qualified to produce photographs could be considered advice. That's no advice, that's a very harsh opinion developed by someone that hasn't even viewed the photos yet. I understand she sprayed and prayed, but that doesn't mean the photos she think are amazing aren't amazing.

Everyone Makes Mistakes!

Jan 21 13 07:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


MKPhoto wrote:
They asked for all images. You agreed.

Now you give all images. Maybe suggest which are the good ones.

Done.

I'm surprised this has sparked such debate. I'm even more surprised that people could advise the model to "give them whatever you want because it was TF* with no contract."

This statement from the OP is the only one that matters...

"OK, so i agreed to a free wedding shoot, on a mountain top, helicopter flight paid for, and a ride home, for a WHOLE disc of EVERY single photo i took."

She even capped the words she agreed to. The WHOLE disc. EVERY single photo. There was no qualifying statement that she would only provide the images she deems acceptable or any cap on the number of images.

It was her own agreement that is causing the conflict, not anything the bride or groom did. They just want what was originally agreed. The OP didn't think through possible scenarios (what about the images that don't come out) but she's learned. But we can't alter the terms of the agreement because we've had a change of heart.

We can chastise the bride & groom for not paying a photographer. But that wouldn't even be an issue if someone hadn't agreed to their terms in the first place.

Jan 21 13 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 458
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


Chronos Productions wrote:

Are you seriously judging her pictures without seeing them? fail.

You have no idea how good or bad her pics have turned out. You have no right to judge someone's work based on your own predictions of how bad you think it will be. If she shows her pics, then you can pass judgement to her whether its good or bad, but her opinion as in another comment on this thread was " i got atleast 40 amazing photos!" which was taken within an hour.

Professionals telling someone that they should be ashamed of themselves is no advice.

I'm not a professional, at best, I have only worked semi-pro for short periods doing event and photojournalism. 

I never passed judgment on the quality of her photos as I haven't seen them.  I speculated on an educated guess.  Someone just picking up a camera is not going to do as well as someone that's done it for years.  A good picture to one that's just picked up shooting compared to someone that's been shooting for years probably isn't in the same ball park.  So my assumption (please read that word again) is rather logical especially given her lack of insight into what's she's doing based on her complaints.

Jan 21 13 08:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Chronos Productions wrote:
You have no idea how good or bad her pics have turned out. You have no right to judge someone's work based on your own predictions of how bad you think it will be.

There's no predicting involved. The OP herself stated there are only about 40 images even she deems acceptable. Which means 506 images are worthless.

But I do think we can make educated guesses based on the factors involved - poor weather conditions, windy/snowy, lack of equipment, lack of photographer experience (in any genre, let alone one as demanding as a fast moving wedding), the OP's admission that everybody was moving around and "wouldn't let her" snap photos, subjects squinting, etc. Those would tax even the most knowledgeable photographer, let alone an 18 year old with 2 weeks of camera experience.

When you combine all those factors there is very high likelihood that even those 40 images would not pass muster of an experienced wedding photographer. Is that absolute? Of course not, and even the worst photographer can get some lucky "spray and pray" shots.

Jan 21 13 08:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chronos Creations
Posts: 353
Benidorm, Valencia, Spain


David J Martin wrote:
what chance do you give these 40 good photos as being something a pro would consider as passable
Michael Pandolfo wrote:

Rhetorical questions such as yours incite one answer.
And who said anything about comparing her to the work of a professional doing it for years? This was a free shoot, and the B&G knew how long she's been doing it for. I'm talking about her pictures being satisfactory to the B&G, and if they knew her limited capabilities then I'm pretty sure they aren't expecting too much.

This isn't the critique forum.

Jan 21 13 08:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SoCo n Lime
Posts: 3,283
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom


on the bright side you learned a career in photography is allot harder than you and your 'something for nothing' clients thought wink

some advice? get some training and real world experience before taking on a job with such responsibility

doing work for free does not relieve you of responsibility or count as experience or indeed training

assist , get a mentor, do schooling ... you only know where and when your going wrong if you have someone that trained and qualified to pointing your mistakes out or how will you ever know?
Jan 21 13 08:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 458
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


Chronos Productions wrote:

Who said anything about comparing her to the work of a professional doing it for years? I'm talking about her pictures being satisfactory to the B&G.

This isn't the critique forum.

I haven't seen any photo's to be critqued, nor have I critiqued her photos, so I don't know what you're getting at by mentioning the forum type. 

As the OP stated, the vast majority of her shoot was unacceptable.  Look at the math, people have done it on the last couple of pages.  If the work is acceptable to the B&G, more power to both parties.  If that were the case though, why is this thread in existence?

Jan 21 13 08:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ME_
Posts: 3,140
Atlanta, Georgia, US


“You can’t unfry bacon, Jerri.”
-Stephen Colbert

What’s done is done. Give them all the pictures since that’s what you said you’d do.

At this point, either way – all the shots or just the ones you like – has the possibility of damaging your reputation. Either it’s going to be “She promised us all the pictures and then reneged”; or “She took 546 pictures and only 40 came out good.”

I don’t know which would be worse: to be viewed as a cheating liar or as a terrible (warranted or not) photographer. I think at the stage you’re in – beginner with a camera for 2 weeks – I’d take being viewed as a terrible photographer. You can get over that. Cheating liar is forever.
Jan 21 13 08:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photography by Riddell
Posts: 638
Hemel Hempstead, England, United Kingdom


Chronos Productions wrote:
I meant photographers who have had work stolen from them by people that will do stuff for free are trolling here. as in free amateurs have stolen from you before and therefore you're going after other free amateurs for doing this work.

You clearly didn't read my reply properly, and just continued the same tedious reply that as I clearly stated is often cited by amateur photographers.

To clarify.

Despite the amateur assumption that they are. No amateur photographers are stealing, taking, winning or whatever other word you want to use, work from professional photographers.

And yes people make mistakes, but if you are unskilled you shouldn't be practiscing in a professional capacity.

I doubt that if you hired a photographer for your wedding, and the photos were awful that you'd just shrug your shoulders and say 'everyone makes mistakes'

Perhaps next time you are in a resturant and the guy cooks your dinner so badly its uneatable, or the guy who fixes your car just such a bad job the engine blows up a mile down the road, you'll also shrug your shoulders and just say 'everyone makes mistakes'

What if the helicopter pilot descibed in this scene, crashed the helicopter and killed everyone, because he was only 18 years old and only started playing around with a helicopter a month before. I mean everyone makes mistakes right?

Jan 21 13 09:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
redbanana
Posts: 775
Lexington, Kentucky, US


Ok I might just have to hijack this thread lol. We all know what wrongs were done and we all can give OP a hard time I'm pretty sure she understands the harsh reality of shooting weddings now. Instead of pointing out what she did over and over I'd like to invite everyone to share tips for how to approach doing a wedding correctly and successfully. I'll start it off.

1. Contract - it's been stated in here but a contract saves you from so much later on. Even a free shoot can end badly so best protect yourself in writing.

2. Insurance - even if it is just PPA you need some type of insurance because with weddings if something can go wrong it will. I experienced a situation while second shooting at wedding years back when a vintage Rolls Royce limo got a huge dent and nasty scratch from the second camera body of the primary photog after he was knocked backwards by the groom. Do you think the groom said oh my fault I'll pay for that?

3. Knowledge - I put this over gear because it covers so much. Having knowledge to know about doing preceromony meeting to go over the days schedule. Knowledge for knowing posing, understanding lighting or even to know what gear to bring. It is also about know the shot list your couple wants. The most impressive piece of equipment you own us your brain and feeding it with the right information is key. I spend weeks prepping for a wedding based on questionnaires I have my couples fill out. Knowing your couple really well gives you a nice peace of mind.

4. Gear - This is down at 4 because while its important it is not want makes or breaks a wedding every time. However having the right gear and knowledge to use it correctly is very important to successful growth in the industry as well as successful business. When I started out second shooting I spent more in rental gear than I earned. It allowed me to capture quality images which led to more money. This also covering personally gear like good shoes, comfortable clothes, knee pads or even a back brace.

5. Personality - This is what allows you to bark orders and people not get offended. I have "uncle bobs" or best friends who photo bomb all the time. Knowing how to speak to them awhile not offending is very key. Plus sometimes you will find people are shy around a camera so getting them to trust you and ignore the camera can be your best piece of equipment that day.

Those are a few anyone else want to add to the list?
Jan 21 13 09:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ezhini
Posts: 1,598
Wichita, Kansas, US


What the OP should do depends on what the OP expects from the people who got married. Does the OP want to work with them again? Will the freindship be affected? Do they know tons of other people that the OP might want to work with in the future? and so forth.

That said, Dear OP,

You accepted to do a job like an ameteur - not getting paid, not establishing expectation and deliverables before doing the work.

Accordingly, your friends (not a client or a customer, for you did not treat them as one and did not make an agreement as you would do with one) treat you like an ameteur asking for all images.

Now, you should do what an ameteur does, write the files on a CD and give them 500 some images.

Cut the losses and go forward. Lesson learned. Be aware of this next time you agree to do something for free!

What matters now, and the only thing matters now is how much of a feeling of dissatisfaction you want to leave the newly-weds with - that is if you care about what they think and what they will say about you to others.

I think, it is simple:

In general, a pro

1. Secures work like an pro.
2. Does the work like a pro.
3. Delivers the results like a pro.

In your case, you secured the work unlike a pro. You worked unlike a pro (getting only 40 decent pictures out of 500 plus frames shot - 40 images for any wedding these days are too few) But, at stage three - when time to to deliver - if someone suggets that should act like a pro and you follow those advices, you are going to be hurting in the long run. 

My 2 cents for what it is worth.
Jan 21 13 09:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ezhini
Posts: 1,598
Wichita, Kansas, US


Picture This 808 wrote:
This being your first shoot I wouldn't be so twisted up about it.  Honor your agreement give them all of the photos, then begin your post edits and show them, (and yourself,) what you can do.


Vince ptp 808

+1

Jan 21 13 09:30 am  Link  Quote 
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