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first123
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Nicole L Grant wrote:

The other profile is not connected to his.

Ah, forget my point #1. Good you were able to clarify. If it's practically word for word copy of this other persons profile, does get me wondering.

Jan 24 13 05:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Nicole L Grant wrote:

The 4 photos that were on the page were from the day the profile was created. More were added today but honestly they look like pictures someone took themselves.

I see, come back when he's improved. :-)

Jan 24 13 05:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,472
Salinas, California, US


Nicole L Grant wrote:
No we were actually talking via email. Things seemed a little "off" from the beginning which is what brought me to come ask. He stated in his bio about 4 or 5 times that he does not pay models but his first message to me was what are your rates. It's not entirely the not have pictures issue for me. I've shoot with photographers from MM who have had very few pics but there was other things going on from their profile (comments from people, references etc). This is only the 2nd time in awhile that I have actually felt the need to question anything as far as a photographer.

In circumstances like that, you are always correct to go with your gut feeling!  Not saying that there is anything for sure bad about him, but what I say it always boils down to that "feeling."  Being comfortable is important in your ability to model ... or work with him for that matter.  In this case, you declining is the proper thing to do.

With all models, I exchange phone numbers and talk on the phone right about the time I'm ready to commit to booking a shoot.  Usually we have one more conversation to confirm the day or night before the shoot.  If the photographer is serious about booking you, then he or she will make phone contact.  At least that's my opinion of how it should work.

Best wishes!

Jan 24 13 05:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,472
Salinas, California, US


IDiivil wrote:
My bad if you meant no harm. Thanks for clarifying. Your original wording came off somewhat questionable to me, but it's been a long day, so I could be reading under a little bit of stress! smile

No worries!  I think we are on the same page on this ...
... or at least pretty darn close!  wink

Jan 24 13 05:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lily Darling
Posts: 1,299
Lansing, Michigan, US


Nicole L Grant wrote:

I messaged the other profile and it belonged to someone else. That photographer said he had no idea who he even was.

Yeahhh.... RUN

Jan 24 13 05:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
the lonely photographer
Posts: 1,873
Beverly Hills, California, US


I have no references to give out, and my profile page is a total joke. Either they take me up on a TF offer to shoot or they don't. Models can bring king kong if they  like..
Jan 24 13 06:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,003
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


the lonely photographer wrote:
I have no references to give out, and my profile page is a total joke. Either they take me up on a TF offer to shoot or they don't. Models can bring king kong if they  like..

are you speaking of when you first started? Because as of right now you have plenty of references. In 30 seconds I found three in your tags and credited models

Jan 24 13 06:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,984
Chicago, Illinois, US


This thread spilled over to FB but I want to add a few things.   I was accused of not thinking models should vet photographers.   That's not true but accepting the references you as a model may be provided may not be wise.   Do you know the people you contact?   Several years ago a NY test shooter allegedly used fake model profiles on omp to discredit local photographers and to provide good references for him.   There is a movie called Catfish where a man was fooled by a fake Facebook member who claimed to be a young artist.   So how about new photographers who have no tags or references.   

That was a problem for a friend but he worked in IT at Chase and he could take calls there.   I guess it may not be likely someone would provide their work number if they plan to do a model harm.   That of course has no bearing on what he might do as a photographer but you at least have his name and job.    Talk to those you plan to work with.   Ask them your questions.   Do they have a website are they on Facebook?   What are they looking to shoot?   If its at their home.   Google that address.   Ask about bringing a friend.   Explain your safety concerns.   Is it possible to meet at a public place first?   Will a make-up artist be at your shoot?   Will other models?   Let that person know you are giving their number and address to friends.   

We were all new at one point and trusting strangers can be scary.   At some level most things carry risks and that includes dates with attractive strangers.   Use common sense, logic and reason but most of all don't think that most photographers are out to harm you.
Jan 24 13 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan L Duncan
Posts: 207
Jacksonville, Florida, US


Nicole L Grant wrote:
He gave me 3 names of people on his friends list and told me to check them out. I message 2 the 3rd hasn't been on since 2011 it shows.
He is wanting to shoot in his home studio and says no escorts so unless I can verify the references I may just pass. His profile has been around since 2010.

Red Flag 1. He has worked with models on MM before but not credited them anywhere? And then cherry picked them for you to contact? No. People make fake accounts on here all the time and he could just as easily made 3 fake model accounts to give him glowing references.

Red Flag 2. No experience but yet he has a fully functional 'home studio' he wants to use instead of shooting on location? I've worked with photographers with real home studios a ton of times but they'd been photographers for a long time before they acquired the money to buy the equipment needed for a home studio. A home studio is more than a rod holding up a backdrop and Nikon.

Red Flag 3. He's been on MM since 2010 but he's only worked with 3 models and has almost no pictures. What has he been doing in all this time then?

Jan 24 13 11:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan L Duncan
Posts: 207
Jacksonville, Florida, US


Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
if anything happens it should be very easy for the police or someone to find you or them or both.

Sure they may be a total creep, but that's somewhat par for the course sometimes.

If anything happens?

Some of us would rather nothing at all happens in the first place. What if his 'home studio' is way out in the middle of bumfuxville and it takes the police forever to get there? Better to be safe than possibly maybe perhaps sorry.

Jan 24 13 11:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan L Duncan
Posts: 207
Jacksonville, Florida, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:

Gee, that's a lot too do.   Look on Google maps to see if there are places to run to?   Many models don't have cars either.  Tell you what all photographers should be required to do a DNA test, pass a NSA background check and models should check in every ten minutes with friends and the police.   If free photo shoots require all that are they really worth doing?   Many of the shooters who join MM won't have many models to show.   Their profiles may be poorly worded and I know several who are excellent photographers buy socially awkward.   Well good job of potentially scaring models.

Whatever. I do almost all of things and its easy and takes almost no time at all to Google somebody. And it has not eliminated very many people. I've Googled people asking to shoot with me before and 2 or 3 times found hits on the sex offender registry.

Before I got married I Googled dates before going to dinner with somebody. A couple of times I avoided a lot of pain and suffering by doing this. I can't tell you how many times I found out a guy who asked me for a date was married. With kids.

Jan 24 13 11:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,984
Chicago, Illinois, US


Jordan L Duncan wrote:

Whatever. I do almost all of things and its easy and takes almost no time at all to Google somebody. And it has not eliminated very many people. I've Googled people asking to shoot with me before and 2 or 3 times found hits on the sex offender registry.

Before I got married I Googled dates before going to dinner with somebody. A couple of times I avoided a lot of pain and suffering by doing this. I can't tell you how many times I found out a guy who asked me for a date was married. With kids.

That's what I've been driving at.   You did your own homework.   There is a site where a MM model and photographer are having a public battle.   Lets say you found that site and read the comments.   Its about payment.   Instead of choosing not too work with him would you perhaps ask about what happened.   I would.   People deserve a chance to defend themselves.   Another former member and one of the smartest men I've ever met had a really nasty blog devoted to him.   Bad stuff and I let him know.   It was all anonymous which was troubling.   Lets say a model found that.   Should she avoid him?   He's a excellent photographer and a stand up dude.   My best guess is he pissed somebody off and its very easy to defame someone.   If I were a model and saw that blog I'd ask him about it.

Being a intelligent and reasoned person means weighing risk against benefit and discussing questions and concerns with those you plan to work with.  A model on another site accused me of not giving her the images from a shoot.   She used foul language.   When I emailed her she said, oops wrong, Tony.

Jan 25 13 02:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Thyronne
Posts: 1,354
Huntington Beach, California, US


I started building my portfolio before the days of Model Mayhem and before that, omp, so I can't really speak to the difficulty an emerging photographer may have  finding models to work with when they have very few existing shots and references.  I started with friends and friends of friends, models I met on jobs I assisted on and eventually tested for agencies.  By the time the whole online thing came along I had references and tears and an air of legitimacy. So I can barely fathom what it's like for a new photographer to build his reputation and legitimacy strictly online, but that shouldn't be the model's concern.

I always tell friends of mine, if you have any doubt at all about your safety with a photographer, say no.  It's better to miss out on a shoot than getting into an unpleasant situation or worse.  If a thread about what you should think goes on for three pages, move on.
Jan 25 13 03:39 am  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
William Hunter
Posts: 1,205
King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US


the lonely photographer wrote:
     ...my profile page is a total joke.

Laura UnBound wrote:
are you speaking of when you first started? Because as of right now you have plenty of references. In 30 seconds I found three in your tags and credited models

You didn't read his profile page?

Jan 25 13 05:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ddtphoto
Posts: 2,382
Chicago, Illinois, US


Jackson frontier photos wrote:
I will often meet models for coffee prior to working with them.  And meeting in a public area for the initial shoot is also good advise.  or escorts.

Right because modeling is soooo dangerous! And photographers are soooo creepy! Always insist on shooting and meeting in a public place first and be sure to have 911 on your speed dial as well as a fresh can of mace. Bring an escort with a prison record, someone who's no stranger to physical confrontation, and holding a grudge for some hard time. It's best if this escort is also your boyfriend, and is thinking about being a photographer himself, but doesn't have any equipment and needs to know what to buy once he gets some money.

This model might also consider bringing the escort and mace along with her every time she walks outside her door... cause you just never know when you're a darling young "model" and everyone is out to get you. I heard a story about a woman who was assaulted... I mean, she wasn't a model but had posed for some vacation pictures, and the guy who assaulted her wasn't a photographer but had been known to take iphone pictures of stuff he was about to eat for lunch. So it was kinda like a photographer had assaulted a model. Not sure what happened though. Some sort of assault, alleged. So it happens, kind of.

And if you do find yourself alone with a photographer trying to potentially allegedly assault you a lot or even just a little, or one who is looking at you kinda weird, or with a prominently receding hairline... just say, "no!" then stop, drop, and roll. And if once you get down into their basement studio they have star wars action figures anywhere visible, do yourself a favor and run!

Anyway, be careful out there!

Jan 25 13 06:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dragos Codita
Posts: 82
Bucharest, Bucharest, Romania


I don't want to contradict you: if you want to check, do it.
But please explain me how an inexperienced or new photog will ever gain references?
I, for one, don't have references on MM. This makes me suspect, even for a session in public places with escorts?
Jan 25 13 06:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2,513
Hickory, North Carolina, US


Jordan L Duncan wrote:
Whatever. I do almost all of things and its easy and takes almost no time at all to Google somebody. And it has not eliminated very many people. I've Googled people asking to shoot with me before and 2 or 3 times found hits on the sex offender registry.

Before I got married I Googled dates before going to dinner with somebody. A couple of times I avoided a lot of pain and suffering by doing this. I can't tell you how many times I found out a guy who asked me for a date was married. With kids.

Okay.. Google doesn't know if you're married or single, but it might turn up a facebook or Google  account that shows they are. Otherwise I'm not sure where you were getting that information.

Also, as an example I searched for Jordan Duncan and found a number of (male) sex offenders in Florida. Just because they have a name on the state sex offender registry doesn't mean it's the same person.

Also, and this is another topic, but being a registered sex offender could mean a lot of things - from something really bad and http://assets.modelmayhem.com/images/smilies/scary.pngto someone who peed in public while drunk, was wrongfully accused of workplace harassment or something else completely unrelated - so you need to do more homework than that.

Searching for the name (or in my case alias) of the person you're working with is a great first step, but it does involve reading between the lines and beyond the first snippets of presumably relevant info.

Jan 25 13 06:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


the lonely photographer wrote:
...and my profile page is a total joke.

It sure is, I haven't giggled so much in ages.

Nice one.

Jan 25 13 09:49 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sarah Willman
Posts: 42
Dickinson, North Dakota, US


I always google people.. something always comes up especially if you type the location as well.. U need to protect urself.. i would have to wonder if nothing comes up. it seems fishy.iv had a dear friend gone missing now for 3 years becuz of something like that,, no one traced her..
Jan 26 13 05:30 pm  Link  Quote 
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