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Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,819
Seattle, Washington, US


I know retouchers are supposed to always be credited for trade work, but what about paid work?  Do photographers usually credit you if they paid?  Are they supposed to?  What is the etiquette?
Jan 24 13 01:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Mike Needham Retouching
Posts: 369
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


NO, no, no.

If you get credited, it is either a miracle or a mistake.

Could just be me wink
Jan 24 13 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Agnese Lupike
Posts: 138
Chesterfield, England, United Kingdom


I do sometimes trade work and i always credit the photographer(if not asked otherwise) and they're credit me. About paid work, i newer ask to be credited,and say decide for yourself, but the chance that photographers credit me is like 90%  and not only in Facebook in publications 2 and that makes me to put more effort in my work.

If others get credited like model, mua, why shouldn't the retoucher get credit?
Jan 24 13 06:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Oscar Partida
Posts: 729
San Diego, California, US


They don't get credited because they get paid money in most cases instead of tfp
also many photographer's want to keep it  as a secret
Jan 24 13 06:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Zoltan Retoucher
Posts: 130
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


MelissaAnn  wrote:
I know retouchers are supposed to always be credited for trade work, but what about paid work?  Do photographers usually credit you if they paid?  Are they supposed to?  What is the etiquette?

I Don't care when I get paid , But yes I always appreciate credit .

Jan 24 13 06:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Monchel
Posts: 116
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


I kind of assumed... while being paid is nice, having someone advertising the finished work is polite and helps. I credit them whether I pay or not.
Jan 24 13 07:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,819
Seattle, Washington, US


Good to know, thanks everyone.    smile

I believe retouchers should be credited, even when paid, but I suspected it wasn't always happening. 

When I'm looking at photographer portfolios, sometimes I notice there's a huge difference in the quality of the post work from one image to the next, and I wonder if maybe they sometimes use retouchers that they don't credit.
Jan 24 13 07:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,728
Santa Ana, California, US


In the real world of print, I don't think I've ever seen a retoucher credited.
Not saying it doesn't exist.
Jan 24 13 07:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,472
Portland, Oregon, US


I have two shots where the retoucher isn't credited simply because I did not find him via MM.

Sometimes, it can be just that simple, no mystery.

I should probably go back through my old email acct and find him to add his info.
Jan 24 13 09:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Faze1 photography
Posts: 558
Lawndale, California, US


John Allan wrote:
In the real world of print, I don't think I've ever seen a retoucher credited.
Not saying it doesn't exist.

+1 I can't see Top photographer crediting retouchers. It would make them seem human and just like the rest of use. Lol! This is just my 2 cent. I'm only saying this because I can remember when I 1st started photography. I was under the impression that top photographers get everything straight out the camera no retouching or photo manipulation. Boooy, was my heart crushed when I met some of their retouchers and had a chance to see before and after. Not saying there images wasn't great but the retouchers are the ones that really made the image pop and eye catching. Again, this just my experience.

Jan 24 13 10:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Alexey Adamitsky
Posts: 226
Minsk, Minsk, Belarus


Faze1 photography wrote:
...Boooy, was my heart crushed when I met some of their retouchers and had a chance to see before and after...

big_smile

Jan 24 13 10:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DAVISICON
Posts: 361
San Antonio, Texas, US


I think mainly they dont get credit, because the photographer doesnt give away his secret, to credit a retoucher, is to admit that hes not as "talented" as everyone might think, lol...............I know of a photographer who has every one of his photographs retouched and he never credits anyone, its not direspectful to the retoucher, you just have to understand admitting make up and hair it one thing, using a retoucher?, many photographers dont want to admit it.....................William
Jan 24 13 10:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sonn
Posts: 337
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


So what happens if a retoucher retouches the image.
I get it back and make some changes.

Then what?

Retouchers dont like getting credited on work where you have changed it as its not representative of their exact work.

Theres no straight foward solution.
Jan 24 13 11:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17,901
Los Angeles, California, US


professional photographers for the most part DO NOT credit retouchers. I can think of almost 0 magazines that credit them either.
Jan 25 13 12:56 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
OTTO poste1
Posts: 187
Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain


actually, Vogue (Paris I think) credits retouchers on their editorial pages, either studios names or individual names.
Jan 25 13 01:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Grafanovitchi
Posts: 572
San Marcos, California, US


Retouchers have historically been the photographer's secret weapon. Emphasis on the word 'secret'.
Jan 25 13 02:56 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Ovidiu Oltean
Posts: 176
Sibiu, Sibiu, Romania


Star wrote:
professional photographers for the most part DO NOT credit retouchers. I can think of almost 0 magazines that credit them either.

No, some magazines credit retouchers, Vogue,Elle, depands.

Paid work, i even don't want to be credited sometimes, only if the image is good and i like it, you just have to talk with the client, stand for yourself...and yes i got credited on paid work when i asked to.

Jan 25 13 07:11 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Avilio
Posts: 56
Tegucigalpa, Distrito Central, Honduras


The Retouchers wrote:

I Don't care when I get paid , But yes I always appreciate credit .

When the day comes that someone pay me for a retouche, I'll think the same probably.

Jan 25 13 12:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
btdsgn
Posts: 2,212
Wahiawa, Hawaii, US


The comments that say top photographers want to keep the retoucher secret or giver the perception that the image came right out of camera are probably the most accurate comments here... Publications are however starting to credit retouchers.
Jan 26 13 06:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Ashish Arora
Posts: 2,061
Delhi, Delhi, India


btdsgn wrote:
The comments that say top photographers want to keep the retoucher secret or giver the perception that the image came right out of camera are probably the most accurate comments here... Publications are however starting to credit retouchers.

+1

Personally, I don't care eitherways - it's no more about getting recognition after a certain time spent doing what you like, a credit is however always appreciated.

Jan 28 13 12:35 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Greg Curran
Posts: 204
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I get credit on some and not on others, I guess it is up to who you are working for.  Credit goes a long way.  This business is really based on word of mouth.
Jan 29 13 06:20 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Darkseal Studios
Posts: 59
Warren, Michigan, US


Pay me well and don't bother to credit... that's fine with me. If it is a trade piece you had better show some love and credit the piece.
Jan 30 13 03:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Mike Needham Retouching
Posts: 369
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


If it is a trade piece you had better show some love and credit the piece

Most photographers in my experience consider the image the trade and not using your name in a credit.

Jan 30 13 04:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cardmaverick
Posts: 28
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


I've never seen a retoucher credited.

Retouchers are a dirty secret for some photographers. I'm kind of amazed at how you can be a photographer and not study / practice retouching as well. I can understand being too busy and needing a post team in order to get the work done on time.
Feb 02 13 10:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ST Retouch
Posts: 278
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


In real high end fashion industry retouching is the most important thing.
80 % of high end industry files is retouching , 20% are models , outfits and photographers with their  shutter buttons and cameras.
We can hear stories about great files straight from camera, but these stories are  for beginners and wanna be fashion photographers.
All established photographers on the real market have behind them top high end retouchers and retouching agencies which produce real miracles  in fashion photography.
Without them, they are just ordinary guys with cameras.
The only difference between ordinary guys with camera and very established top photographers are that established photographers work serious paid projects and they can pay top high end retouchers and retouching agencies for miracles.
And yes, in 98% cases they will never tell that they use top high end retouchers and agencies for their files.
That's why they don''t want to credit retouchers .
But that's the market.
For personal/portfolio retouching no one care for credits , but with serious global Ad campaigns, Covers, Billboards it is different story.
Couple of retouching agencies started to charge double rates ( if they don't get credits ) or to share copyrights with photographers but we will see at the end what will happen with these things on the real market.
Things have to change , because top high and retouchers and agencies are the ones who make miracles in fashion photography , not shutter button.
Regards!
Feb 03 13 04:18 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Ovidiu Oltean
Posts: 176
Sibiu, Sibiu, Romania


ST Retouch wrote:
In real high end fashion industry retouching is the most important thing.
80 % of high end industry files is retouching , 20% are models , outfits and photographers with their  shutter buttons and cameras.

a false and wrong statement you just gave.

Feb 04 13 07:14 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Alexey Adamitsky
Posts: 226
Minsk, Minsk, Belarus


Ovidiu Oltean wrote:
a false and wrong statement you just gave.

Agree. The guy shows how little he knows about industry with that statement. It's really very far from true in many cases.

Feb 04 13 08:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cardmaverick
Posts: 28
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


I think there will always be a natural antagonism between photographers and retouchers over crediting.

One thing to keep in mind though, at least when it comes to ads, you'll never see any credits. I think this is more of an issue for editorials and websites where people display their work for networking / marketing etc..
Feb 04 13 09:39 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ST Retouch
Posts: 278
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


Alexey Adamitsky wrote:
Agree. The guy shows how little he knows about industry with that statement. It's really very far from true in many cases.

Thank you, I don't know anything, you have right!
I am "17 years old teenager" with small $200 worthy  lap top  on my knees who works  from my bedroom  next to my dog and who plays with pictures.
You have retouching agency with 20+  ( retouchers , photographers and artists) , you shoot and work worldwide with clients , you produce 10000+ files per year , you have base of hundreds of clients   , so you know exactly what is new on the market and what is happening .
Send your opinion to retouching agencies worldwide about job, rates, credits and other things , maybe they can teach something new from you and which are new trends on the real market.
Thanks for sharing your opinion about "young 17 years old guy" who doesn't know anything about industry.

Feb 04 13 10:13 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Ovidiu Oltean
Posts: 176
Sibiu, Sibiu, Romania


ST Retouch wrote:
Thank you, I don't know anything, you have right!
I am "17 years old teenager" with small $200 worthy  lap top  on my knees who works  from my bedroom  next to my dog.
You have retouching agency with 20+  ( retouchers , photographers and artists) , you shoot and work worldwide with clients , you produce 10000+ files per year , you have base of hundreds of clients   , so you know exactly what is new on the market and what is happening .
Send your opinion to retouching agencies worldwide about job, rates, credits and other things , maybe they can teach something new from you and which are new trends on the real market.
Thanks for sharing your opinion to "young 17 years old guy" who doesn't know anything about industry.

Giving that statement you just gave tells a lot, you don't know much.
Any good retoucher from the industry will tell that you are WRONG !

Feb 04 13 10:38 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ST Retouch
Posts: 278
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


Ovidiu Oltean wrote:
Giving that statement you just gave tells a lot, you don't know much.
Any good retoucher from the industry will tell that you are WRONG !

Why you have deleted your original post about me , your post now is normal , but previous bad words about me you have deleted?
I saw what you wrote about me.
First of all you have to learn how to threat members and people here.
You have to respect all members.
Some of them can be your grandfather with their age.
If you read carefully my first post you can see that I didn't speak about anyone personally , I never do that, because I RESPECT PEOPLE.
Second I am photographer this is my main job , and I am always on photographer's side, always, because I am photographer  and I know that all our files without retouching are just ordinary files, better or worse depend from skills and conditions.
If you want to play teacher here and mocking other members, these things won't take you anywhere in serious business.
If you want to speak to others that they don't know anything first ask yourself where you are in serious business.
If you want to be in serious business first of all and the most important thing is to threat good and respect all your clients, members.
This is your way to success.
All the best on your journey and I hope and I wish you to find you one day on the market as a serious owner of retouching agency.

Feb 04 13 11:05 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
The Invisible Touch
Posts: 706
Tarragona, Catalonia, Spain


Ashish Arora wrote:

+1

Personally, I don't care eitherways - it's no more about getting recognition after a certain time spent doing what you like, a credit is however always appreciated.

+1 once in a while is good/nice to see your name somewhere but at the end of the day... money comes first!!

Feb 04 13 12:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Ovidiu Oltean
Posts: 176
Sibiu, Sibiu, Romania


ST Retouch wrote:
Why you have deleted your original post about me , your post now is normal , but previous bad words about me you have deleted?
I saw what you wrote about me.

I wrote that Alexey knows more stuff then you and his work is way better, my opinon !!!

ST Retouch wrote:
You have to respect all members.

True, check your reply to Alexey..i don't find that you are replying in a respectable way.Thats just cockiness.

Feb 04 13 12:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Rob Mac Studio
Posts: 1,105
London, England, United Kingdom


ST Retouch wrote:
In real high end fashion industry retouching is the most important thing.
80 % of high end industry files is retouching , 20% are models , outfits and photographers with their  shutter buttons and cameras.

With all due respect you are talking absolute rubbish.

Feb 04 13 01:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Ashish Arora
Posts: 2,061
Delhi, Delhi, India


Just remember "17 year old kid" tongue that a good image is result of a good team.

And unless it was already good to begin with, not even a high end agency can save it.

x
Feb 06 13 06:16 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ST Retouch
Posts: 278
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


Ashish Arora wrote:
Just remember "17 year old kid" tongue that a good image is result of a good team.

And unless it was already good to begin with, not even a high end agency can save it.

x

I agree with you Ashish 100 %.
Just I told in my first post situation when high end retouchers and retouching agencies work composite work and  CGI from scratch.
You as a retoucher or retouching agency  receive great file from photographer over solid background and you make miracles later in advertising campaigns and spend in some cases up to 3 days with one file for composite work.
Just I wrote that these people deserve credits, because they make miracles, not shutter button (I speak about real market not crediting on MM) , and couple of retouching agencies started with sharing copyrights with photographers or to charge double rates if they don't credit.
All these things are at the beginning , we will see what will be happen on the market.
With great advertising campaigns where we have amazing composite and CGI work from scratch , again I say more then 80% of these files are retouchers and retouching agencies.
If we speak about ordinary fashion files from locations where we have just high end skin retouching with some nice fashion color grading, yes, retouchers and retouching agencies are just a part of great team.
Regards!

Feb 06 13 08:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cardmaverick
Posts: 28
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


ST Retouch wrote:

I agree with you Ashish 100 %.
Just I told in my first post situation when high end retouchers and retouching agencies work composite work and  CGI from scratch.
You as a retoucher or retouching agency  receive great file from photographer over solid background and you made miracles later in advertising campaigns and spend in some cases up to 3 days with one file for composite work.
Just I wrote that these people deserve credits, because they make miracles, not shutter button (I speak about real market not crediting on MM) , and couple of retouching agencies started with sharing copyrights with photographers or to charge double rates if they don't credit.
All these things are at the beginning , we will see what will be happen on the market.
With great advertising campaigns where we have amazing composite and CGI work from scratch , again I say more then 80% of these files are retouchers and retouching agencies.
If we speak about ordinary fashion files from locations where we have just high end skin retouching with some nice fashion color grading, yes, retouchers and retouching agencies are just a part of great team.
Regards!

If people are working in big teams, I've got bad new for you. The copyright will simply be held by whoever is paying. What your describing is sounding a lot like film production, where everyone is under a "work for hire" agreement - meaning they all give up their copyrights to the client hiring them. That scenario is far more likely than people trying to share it. That would be a huge mess.

Feb 06 13 09:25 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
ST Retouch
Posts: 278
Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland


Cardmaverick wrote:
If people are working in big teams, I've got bad new for you. The copyright will simply be held by whoever is paying. What your describing is sounding a lot like film production, where everyone is under a "work for hire" agreement - meaning they all give up their copyrights to the client hiring them. That scenario is far more likely than people trying to share it. That would be a huge mess.

I understand what you mean,
With film production I don't know really about these things , because I have  never been in any film production .
With photography, yes and no about copyrights.
You as a photographer  are copyright owner of files when you shoot .
You just give license to client for publishing, prints , billboards or whatever else.
In some cases clients  can ask you to give them full copyrights but then rates are different.
Everything depend from deals  between, how you make deal.
Even if you as a photographer don't give full copyright to client  for your files( if they don't ask you), it doesn't mean that you can do whatever you like with that files.
It doesn't mean that you can sell that  files to others , or publish that files  wherever you want, simply there are some professional rules.
If you brake the rules no one will work with you anymore.
In photography, client will ask you sometimes for full copyright , sometimes just for license.
In almost all cases when you see files in magazines or fashion  web sites you can always read campaign for XYZ fashion company by XYZ photographer.
Regards!

Feb 06 13 10:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sarra Carol
Posts: 16
Motley, Minnesota, US


As a photographer I would have no problem crediting the retoucher.

Especially because if I'm paying you, your work is good enough that I wanted it, so I should credit it.

As a retoucher, I've had photographers prefer not to credit me so that my link/prices aren't attached to their photo for their paying clients to know what they paid.
Feb 06 13 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
C Benjamin Design
Posts: 10
San Diego, California, US


Cardmaverick wrote:
I've never seen a retoucher credited.

Retouchers are a dirty secret for some photographers. I'm kind of amazed at how you can be a photographer and not study / practice retouching as well. I can understand being too busy and needing a post team in order to get the work done on time.

you say you don't understand, then give the number 1 example of why they don't.

also, I don't care if I get credited or not.

Feb 09 13 08:33 am  Link  Quote 
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