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Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


I have lived in my apartment, and had issues for four and a half years with my landlord.  I am in college full time, and have a disabled child I take care of so I only have time for more part time work right now, and didn't have the money to save up to move.  In our lease it says we have to keep our places clean, and the landlord comes once every other month and inspects our apartments.

  She has sent me notices threatening to kick me out over things like...my light switch plates weren't clean enough.  Or she will find a spot on the counter I didn't wipe off, or somewhere I forgot to sweep.  I had to switch apartments once, because of a maintenance issue that was their fault.  She nit picked everything in that apartment and threatened to take over 100 dollars of my deposit for cleaning.  But because the floors were so old they had to rip them all out, and replace rotted wood under them...won't they have to clean it after that anyways, and shouldn't they pay for that?

  She called the corporate office of the complex and told them my fridge was filthy, but I have pics of it and it was spotless.  So the goods news is I'm graduating in May, and can work more and save to move...but there's the issue of my deposit.  I know she has kept deposits to fix things, and then not actually fixed them.  That seems like theft to me?  There aren't a lot of places that govern over landlords in Missouri, but if they are keeping money wrongfully, is there a way to report it to the police?  Or just take them to court? 

It's $500 dollars of my money, and I want to make sure it's not being withheld.  I also wondered about reporting her for not fixing things after she kept the money, but not sure where to go.  Has anyone else had issues like this?
Jan 28 13 02:06 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


You could call corporate and complain (apparently she has bosses).
You also should see your deposit as money spent. If you keep photos of the state you keep the place in at move-out, she shouldn't be able to get away with whittling down your deposit.

As for the rest, just keep it spotless. Never move anywhere ever again that does inspections like that, because fuck that.
Jan 28 13 02:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,184
Columbus, Ohio, US


I tell her to pound sand. Many landlords think they're a lord, just because they own the place.

If I had a landlord that came on to my premises every other month, I would be looking for a place to live rather soon. The lease usually says they can, but that's just horsehit, I don't consider "quiet enjoyment". Twice a year at worst.

Once a year or less, is the best. I never bugged my tenants if the rent was on time and from ocassional drive bys. Besides, I always knew the neighbors of my places, they would let me know if somethuing unruly was happening.

As to them cleaning up the floor mess, I'm assuming you mean after they fix it and have shit all over the place clean up? Because they won't, nor are they likely liable to do so,.
Jan 28 13 02:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marc Damon
Posts: 6,562
Biloxi, Mississippi, US


There is always a government agency on the state or local level that governs landlords, tenants, residential leases, etc. Find it. Ask for advice. Other than that, you're probably shit out of luck because $500 is too small to take to a lawyer and may not even be worth going to small claims court even though you'd probably win after the judge hears the ridiculous treatment you've been getting from her.
Jan 28 13 02:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Carter
Posts: 7,636
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


La Lana  wrote:
I have lived in my apartment, and had issues for four and a half years with my landlord.  I am in college full time, and have a disabled child I take care of so I only have time for more part time work right now, and didn't have the money to save up to move.  In our lease it says we have to keep our places clean, and the landlord comes once every other month and inspects our apartments.

  She has sent me notices threatening to kick me out over things like...my light switch plates weren't clean enough.  Or she will find a spot on the counter I didn't wipe off, or somewhere I forgot to sweep.  I had to switch apartments once, because of a maintenance issue that was their fault.  She nit picked everything in that apartment and threatened to take over 100 dollars of my deposit for cleaning.  But because the floors were so old they had to rip them all out, and replace rotted wood under them...won't they have to clean it after that anyways, and shouldn't they pay for that?

  She called the corporate office of the complex and told them my fridge was filthy, but I have pics of it and it was spotless.  So the goods news is I'm graduating in May, and can work more and save to move...but there's the issue of my deposit.  I know she has kept deposits to fix things, and then not actually fixed them.  That seems like theft to me?  There aren't a lot of places that govern over landlords in Missouri, but if they are keeping money wrongfully, is there a way to report it to the police?  Or just take them to court? 

It's $500 dollars of my money, and I want to make sure it's not being withheld.  I also wondered about reporting her for not fixing things after she kept the money, but not sure where to go.  Has anyone else had issues like this?

Contact the housing commission, sounds like your landlord is invading your privacy. While yes, it is her complex, what she's doing is borderline harassment.

But, as others have said, consider the deposit spent. A security deposit is not an investment, it's a cost plain and simple. I have never gotten a deposit back. Landlords find ways to use it to their advantage so they don't have to pay out of pocket, and unfortunately landlords tend to win.

But you also should call her supervisors. I have never lived in a place that had monthly inspections. I've had monthly pest control, but never inspections. And finding one spot is just OCD bullshit. Sounds like she wants to get rid of you, but can't find a real reason, so she's trying to make you want to leave instead.

Good luck.

Also, something brought up elsewhere, if you're not getting notices of said inspections, then they are in breach of something. They can't just walk into your apartment whenever they want.

Jan 28 13 02:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Marc Damon wrote:
There is always a government agency on the state or local level that governs landlords, tenants, residential leases, etc. Find it. Ask for advice. Other than that, you're probably shit out of luck because $500 is too small to take to a lawyer and may not even be worth going to small claims court even though you'd probably win after the judge hears the ridiculous treatment you've been getting from her.

I can go to small claims court for it...it's a small filing fee...and if the tenant wins...you get twice the amount that was wrongfully withheld.

I just feel confused on what she can hold it for.  She said she'd charge me if I left tacs in the wall, but I thought that was regular wear and tear, and what does it cost for someone to take a tac out of a wall.

Jan 28 13 04:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Mnemosyne Photography wrote:

Contact the housing commission, sounds like your landlord is invading your privacy. While yes, it is her complex, what she's doing is borderline harassment.

But, as others have said, consider the deposit spent. A security deposit is not an investment, it's a cost plain and simple. I have never gotten a deposit back. Landlords find ways to use it to their advantage so they don't have to pay out of pocket, and unfortunately landlords tend to win.

But you also should call her supervisors. I have never lived in a place that had monthly inspections. I've had monthly pest control, but never inspections. And finding one spot is just OCD bullshit. Sounds like she wants to get rid of you, but can't find a real reason, so she's trying to make you want to leave instead.

Good luck.

Also, something brought up elsewhere, if you're not getting notices of said inspections, then they are in breach of something. They can't just walk into your apartment whenever they want.

I get notices...it's so that they can do bug spraying...I knew they'd be doing that, but I didn't realize they'd be doing this other crap at the same time.  She basically told me she sends these threatening letters to get me to do what she wants...that's just stressful.  I've been using the extra income from modeling to save up for moving expenses.

Jan 28 13 04:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boho Hobo
Posts: 25,351
Portland, Oregon, US


Marc Damon wrote:
There is always a government agency on the state or local level that governs landlords, tenants, residential leases, etc. Find it. Ask for advice. Other than that, you're probably shit out of luck because $500 is too small to take to a lawyer and may not even be worth going to small claims court even though you'd probably win after the judge hears the ridiculous treatment you've been getting from her.
La Lana  wrote:
I can go to small claims court for it...it's a small filing fee...and if the tenant wins...you get twice the amount that was wrongfully withheld.

I just feel confused on what she can hold it for.  She said she'd charge me if I left tacs in the wall, but I thought that was regular wear and tear, and what does it cost for someone to take a tac out of a wall.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/ … 36218.html

there are several important linked docs in this page, also check out their discussion on notice to enter, etc

Jan 28 13 04:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
California Girls Skate
Posts: 343
Los Angeles, California, US


La Lana  wrote:
I just feel confused on what she can hold it for.  She said she'd charge me if I left tacs in the wall, but I thought that was regular wear and tear, and what does it cost for someone to take a tac out of a wall.

That's the whole problem. There are no "laws" about what is acceptable or not. It's up to the discretion of the landlord. I once dated a girl who moved out of her place and it was spotless and they withheld her deposit because the windowsills were dusty. Seriously. Dusty windowsills? Like others have said, landlords find ANY excuse to keep that deposit money. I've never gotten mine back in any apartments I've lived in. Most people learn to just accept the deposit as part of the cost of renting - you never see it again.

Jan 28 13 04:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Two Pears Studio
Posts: 3,318
Wilmington, Delaware, US


La Lana  wrote:
I have lived in my apartment, and had issues for four and a half years with my landlord.  I am in college full time, and have a disabled child I take care of so I only have time for more part time work right now, and didn't have the money to save up to move.  In our lease it says we have to keep our places clean, and the landlord comes once every other month and inspects our apartments.

  She has sent me notices threatening to kick me out over things like...my light switch plates weren't clean enough.  Or she will find a spot on the counter I didn't wipe off, or somewhere I forgot to sweep.  I had to switch apartments once, because of a maintenance issue that was their fault.  She nit picked everything in that apartment and threatened to take over 100 dollars of my deposit for cleaning.  But because the floors were so old they had to rip them all out, and replace rotted wood under them...won't they have to clean it after that anyways, and shouldn't they pay for that?

  She called the corporate office of the complex and told them my fridge was filthy, but I have pics of it and it was spotless.  So the goods news is I'm graduating in May, and can work more and save to move...but there's the issue of my deposit.  I know she has kept deposits to fix things, and then not actually fixed them.  That seems like theft to me?  There aren't a lot of places that govern over landlords in Missouri, but if they are keeping money wrongfully, is there a way to report it to the police?  Or just take them to court? 

It's $500 dollars of my money, and I want to make sure it's not being withheld.  I also wondered about reporting her for not fixing things after she kept the money, but not sure where to go.  Has anyone else had issues like this?

small claims court. The burden of proof is on them. Take photos after every inspection and document.  Then sue

Jan 28 13 04:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


California Girls Skate wrote:

That's the whole problem. There are no "laws" about what is acceptable or not. It's up to the discretion of the landlord. I once dated a girl who moved out of her place and it was spotless and they withheld her deposit because the windowsills were dusty. Seriously. Dusty windowsills? Like others have said, landlords find ANY excuse to keep that deposit money. I've never gotten mine back in any apartments I've lived in. Most people learn to just accept the deposit as part of the cost of renting - you never see it again.

Actually...it's up to a judge, and most would consider dust normal wear and tear.  Most people are not aware that they do have rights too, and can go to small claims court.  I was just wondering if people here had had any experience there with it.

Jan 28 13 04:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


The monthly inspections are normally to make sure things aren't broken or missing. Outside of military barracks and company-owned homes in a lgging town, I've never heard of building managers coming to make sure the place is dust-free and no spots on the counters.

What does the rental agreement specify?

Yeah, what others said about going over her head to her bosses. I'm sure they don't care if you don't dust the windowsills daily and they probably do care that there's not a lot of tenant turnover, which costs them money.
Jan 28 13 05:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


In the end make sure you take LOTS of pictures to show what the apartment looks like before you move out.  If she keeps any of your money, that you don't think she should, send the pictures to the Corporate contact and threaten court.  If they do nothing you can always go to Small Claims Court.  Again, Pictures!

Good luck!
Jan 28 13 06:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Carter
Posts: 7,636
Indianapolis, Indiana, US


La Lana  wrote:

I get notices...it's so that they can do bug spraying...I knew they'd be doing that, but I didn't realize they'd be doing this other crap at the same time.  She basically told me she sends these threatening letters to get me to do what she wants...that's just stressful.  I've been using the extra income from modeling to save up for moving expenses.

if she's sending threatening letters, and you can prove she said she sends them to get you to do what she wants, then you should forward them to her bosses, and contact a lawyer. She is in violation of something I'm sure.

Jan 28 13 08:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtisticPhotography
Posts: 7,699
Buffalo, New York, US


Before you do anything, talk to your neighbors and see if they are treated the same. See if they get monthly inspections and reports for little things. If they are not treated EXACTLY the same, PM me.
Jan 28 13 08:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
matt-h2
Posts: 521
Oakland, California, US


California Girls Skate wrote:

That's the whole problem. There are no "laws" about what is acceptable or not.

Not true. Last I was aware, at least in CA, where you live, there are laws about deposits, as well as landlord access. Not sure about OP's situation. But as she mentioned, if it ends up in court (not that I am saying whether it should or not), there should be both a reasonableness test, as well as precedent.

Jan 28 13 08:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


La Lana  wrote:
I can go to small claims court for it...it's a small filing fee...and if the tenant wins...you get twice the amount that was wrongfully withheld.

I just feel confused on what she can hold it for.  She said she'd charge me if I left tacs in the wall, but I thought that was regular wear and tear, and what does it cost for someone to take a tac out of a wall.

Fill any holes in the wall with Spackle. Clean well (wipe down any dirty walls, clean the cabinets, inside and out, clean under the stove an in the under-stove drawer, windows are a good idea too, then obvious stuff like sweeping, mopping, counters, bathrooms, appliances), if you can steam clean the carpets, do, it will save you money.

If you have proof you didn't cause damage and left the place as clean as when you moved in (before and after photos), and she takes your deposit, file in small claims (usually around $50)

BTW, entering someone's property that many times a year is plain ridiculous. Why would she even want to? I hate entering someone elses home, and while you are paying rent, it's your home. Never tolerate that again, it's not normal.

Jan 28 13 10:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andy G 323
Posts: 1,218
Bradford, England, United Kingdom


As others have said take lots of photos before you leave and in case she claims you altered the date on the camera before taking the pictures try and include a newspaper from the last day in the apartment as proof the pictures were actually taken on that day. She might try saying you took those pics at an earler date when there was no damage or dirt and had changed the date on the camera to make it look like they were taken on the  date you left.
Jan 29 13 05:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,968
Portland, Oregon, US


Jan 29 13 08:50 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Jan 29 13 08:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,902
Albany, New York, US


La Lana  wrote:
I can go to small claims court for it...it's a small filing fee...and if the tenant wins...you get twice the amount that was wrongfully withheld.

If you go this route, be sure to keep a papertrail.

Document everything that happened. How you communicated w/ them, what was their response, when it happened exactly, the purpose of the communique, & (if necessary) what was the result of it.

Jan 29 13 09:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
modeled
Posts: 9,334
San Diego, California, US


I just want to wish you the best and hope you get your deposit back.  Sorry your landlord is a heartless ______.
Jan 29 13 09:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,968
Portland, Oregon, US


La Lana  wrote:
I have done enough research to know that I don't have to have a lawyer to sue...and I can guarantee you they don't want to spend money on a lawyer either.

I'll take your word for it, but then again, you called it a "complex", which might mean that they already have a lawyer on retainer.  At the very least, it is likely that your landlord has more experience in these kinds of disputes than you do.


La Lana  wrote:
At the end of it, it will probably be a lot more then a 100 that they try to take, and it's illegal if it's wrong.  It's MY money.  I know for a fact they held money to fix things in the apartment that I am in now, and didn't fix them....that's stealing someone's money. 

Also, the way a landlord looks at wear and tear has to be different for families then it would a single person...otherwise it can be looked at as judging someone harsher because they have kids...which is discrimination based on familial status...which is illegal.

If you want to claim these things, you need to be prepared to prove them.  Even if you don't have a lawyer, you need to know that the plaintiff (the person making a claim) has the burden of proof, and if the plaintiff can't prove their claim, they will be unsuccessful.  Do you have proof for any of these claims?  Can you call witnesses to help you (and are they willing to take off work to show up during your hearing)?

Further, why shouldn't a tenant be held responsible for the wear & tear on a rental unit that occurred during their tenancy?

I know you are upset.  I know you feel entitled to that deposit.  However, the court is impartial.  I'm just saying that you are at a significant disadvantage, and making claims you can't prove is going to hurt you.

And I'm also saying that courts like to do as little as possible.  You've got to offer the court a compelling reason for them to overturn the decisions made by your landlord.

Sorry for your troubles.

Jan 29 13 12:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:

La Lana  wrote:
I have done enough research to know that I don't have to have a lawyer to sue...and I can guarantee you they don't want to spend money on a lawyer either.

I'll take your word for it, but then again, you called it a "complex", which might mean that they already have a lawyer on retainer.  At the very least, it is likely that your landlord has more experience in these kinds of disputes than you do.



If you want to claim these things, you need to be prepared to prove them.  Even if you don't have a lawyer, you need to know that the plaintiff (the person making a claim) has the burden of proof, and if the plaintiff can't prove their claim, they will be unsuccessful.  Do you have proof for any of these claims?  Can you call witnesses to help you (and are they willing to take off work to show up during your hearing)?

Further, why shouldn't a tenant be held responsible for the wear & tear on a rental unit that occurred during their tenancy?

I know you are upset.  I know you feel entitled to that deposit.  However, the court is impartial.  I'm just saying that you are at a significant disadvantage, and making claims you can't prove is going to hurt you.

And I'm also saying that courts like to do as little as possible.  You've got to offer the court a compelling reason for them to overturn the decisions made by your landlord.

Sorry for your troubles.

I know the tenant who lived here before me, she has the paper stating what they took the deposit here for...I can clearly see they didn't fix it.

I have photos from the other unit I lived in here...she said my refrigerator was nasty, but I have photos of it, and sent them to a lawyer.  I can guarantee you they don't.

Also, there is normal wear and tear that the tenant is not responsible for.  Painting the walls in MO after a year of tenancy is the landlord's responsibility...and it should be...it's THEIR unit.  Shampooing a carpet after so many years is the landlord's responsibility...so long as there aren't abnormal stains in a carpet. 

Sorry that while paying them 10,000 dollars  a year while living in a unit that I actually LIVED in it. 

And you don't need to take my word for the whole  not needing a lawyer and small claims court...for money under a certain amount that goes to small claims court, and most people don't take lawyers.

Jan 29 13 01:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:

La Lana  wrote:
I have done enough research to know that I don't have to have a lawyer to sue...and I can guarantee you they don't want to spend money on a lawyer either.

I'll take your word for it, but then again, you called it a "complex", which might mean that they already have a lawyer on retainer.  At the very least, it is likely that your landlord has more experience in these kinds of disputes than you do.



If you want to claim these things, you need to be prepared to prove them.  Even if you don't have a lawyer, you need to know that the plaintiff (the person making a claim) has the burden of proof, and if the plaintiff can't prove their claim, they will be unsuccessful.  Do you have proof for any of these claims?  Can you call witnesses to help you (and are they willing to take off work to show up during your hearing)?

Further, why shouldn't a tenant be held responsible for the wear & tear on a rental unit that occurred during their tenancy?

I know you are upset.  I know you feel entitled to that deposit.  However, the court is impartial.  I'm just saying that you are at a significant disadvantage, and making claims you can't prove is going to hurt you.

And I'm also saying that courts like to do as little as possible.  You've got to offer the court a compelling reason for them to overturn the decisions made by your landlord.

Sorry for your troubles.

I also don't have to PROVE that it's illegal to discriminate against someone for familial status...it's federal law, and I imagine most judges will, or should know that.

Jan 29 13 01:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,001
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Have you contacted the corporate office about her yet? Seems like a logical first step, try working things out with them first.
Jan 29 13 02:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


La Lana  wrote:
I know the tenant who lived here before me, she has the paper stating what they took the deposit here for...I can clearly see they didn't fix it.

I have photos from the other unit I lived in here...she said my refrigerator was nasty, but I have photos of it, and sent them to a lawyer.  I can guarantee you they don't.

Also, there is normal wear and tear that the tenant is not responsible for.  Painting the walls in MO after a year of tenancy is the landlord's responsibility...and it should be...it's THEIR unit.  Shampooing a carpet after so many years is the landlord's responsibility...so long as there aren't abnormal stains in a carpet. 

Sorry that while paying them 10,000 dollars  a year while living in a unit that I actually LIVED in it. 

And you don't need to take my word for the whole  not needing a lawyer and small claims court...for money under a certain amount that goes to small claims court, and most people don't take lawyers.

If the carpets where shampooed before you moved in, you should shampoo them upon moving out (unless they are in the exact condition of cleanliness as when you moved in, no spills or visible dirt). Same with the walls, but generally washing any visible dirt and patching the holes will do, painting isn't usually necessary.

Edited to add, a landlord can't not rent to you because you have children (though it would be very hard to prove in court that was their reasoning)

But if a child causes damage or a mess (crayon on the wall etc), it is up to the parent to fix it. Your landlord did not birth your child and is not responsible for any damage your kid causes (not saying your kid did, that's a general You, just making a point) that has nothing to do with the fair housing act.

People with children have the same rights as people without, but they are not entitled to special treatment.

(ps, I am as bleeding heart as they get)

Jan 29 13 02:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The F-Stop
Posts: 1,436
New York, New York, US


why does this person have access to your appartment?.. snooping around? get a nany cam n watch to see if this person is pilfering as well.

They have no right to be in your appartment unless there is an emergency.. as a NYer I always change my locks the day I moved in... no one should have access to your persoanl property.

Samll claims court is the place to hear your side of the story.. and be sure to bring your photos.
Jan 29 13 03:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


The F-Stop wrote:
why does this person have access to your appartment?.. snooping around? get a nany cam n watch to see if this person is pilfering as well.

They have no right to be in your appartment unless there is an emergency.. as a NYer I always change my locks the day I moved in... no one should have access to your persoanl property.

Samll claims court is the place to hear your side of the story.. and be sure to bring your photos.

That must be a NY thing. Here, landlords can have a key to your place (I've never lived anywhere that they didn't). And I have a key to my rental (though as long as my tenant pays their rent on time/doesn't trash the place, I have no desire to enter at all, unless I need to make a repair).

Land lords can enter in case of emergency to make repairs. Otherwise they have to give at least 24 hrs written notice. I personally think it should be 72 hrs min, but oh well.

They can also enter when you are not home (I do not agree with that at all! And would never enter my rental when the tenant is not home)

After living in my own home (that I owned) for many years, it does feel weird to me that someone I don't know has a key to where I live (I currently live in a rental), even though I pay a fuck ton of money for rent. As a landlord, I have to have a key for real reasons, but am very respectful of my tenants.

Jan 29 13 04:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FlirtynFun Photography
Posts: 12,883
Houston, Texas, US


sorry...but 4 1/2 years of this treatment and you're still living there? I'm sorry but there ARE other options. Sometimes it's not worth the battle. Find somewhere else to live. The FIRST thing I'd do is to print out a copy of my lease and read it front to back to know your rights. I might suggest reading THIS front to back too as it covers laws in Missouri.
http://ago.mo.gov/publications/landlordtenant.pdf
Jan 29 13 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Sophia Be wrote:

If the carpets where shampooed before you moved in, you should shampoo them upon moving out (unless they are in the exact condition of cleanliness as when you moved in, no spills or visible dirt). Same with the walls, but generally washing any visible dirt and patching the holes will do, painting isn't usually necessary.

Edited to add, a landlord can't not rent to you because you have children (though it would be very hard to prove in court that was their reasoning)

But if a child causes damage or a mess (crayon on the wall etc), it is up to the parent to fix it. Your landlord did not birth your child and is not responsible for any damage your kid causes (not saying your kid did, that's a general You, just making a point) that has nothing to do with the fair housing act.

People with children have the same rights as people without, but they are not entitled to special treatment.

(ps, I am as bleeding heart as they get)

In MO it is the landlords responsibility to shampoo the carpets...so long as the carpets aren't damaged beyond repair...dirty carpeting is considered normal wear and tear under the law.

I am not saying that people with children are subject to SPECIAL treatment, but what I am saying is that normal wear and tear has to be judged differently when it comes to people with families...otherwise this is discriminating against people with children...

But no that doesn't mean kids can paint all over the walls...it just means that the more people who are living in a place...the more likely normal wear and tear will occur.

Jan 29 13 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


La Lana  wrote:

In MO it is the landlords responsibility to shampoo the carpets...so long as the carpets aren't damaged beyond repair...dirty carpeting is considered normal wear and tear under the law.  Painting may be necessary if there were tacs in the walls...not huge gouges, but something you hang pics up with, and it's the landlords job to repaint.

I am not saying that people with children are subject to SPECIAL treatment, but what I am saying is that normal wear and tear has to be judged differently when it comes to people with families...otherwise this is discriminating against people with children...

But no that doesn't mean kids can paint all over the walls...it just means that the more people who are living in a place...the more likely normal wear and tear will occur.

Jan 29 13 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Sophia Be
Posts: 6,347
Portland, Oregon, US


La Lana  wrote:
In MO

I'm not sure of the law in your state or what was in your lease. You may want to check that out.

You asked what you can do to make sure you get your deposit back, that's a general list I gave.

You should have seen the check list my last complex gave me, I even had to scrub the porches, clean under the fridge and clean the window screens, light fixtures (though none of that was clean when I moved in, I did it anyway), it was crazy.

But in the end, local laws and your agreement will determinate what the land lord can take.

Anyway, I wish you luck

Jan 29 13 06:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,968
Portland, Oregon, US


Look -- I'm going to bow out shortly.  You are upset, and I've said my piece -- here, you have an expectation that people will take you at your word.  In court, the judge will be expected to be skeptical.  If you have proof, that helps you.  But be aware that what you think of as proof may not be as powerful as you think it may be.  For example:

Are the people you mentioned earlier (e.g. the previous tenant) willing to appear on your behalf?

La Lana  wrote:
I also don't have to PROVE that it's illegal to discriminate against someone for familial status...it's federal law, and I imagine most judges will, or should know that.

True, but how do you intend to PROVE that you were discriminated against due to your familial status?  How can you convince a skeptical judge of that serious charge?

Jan 30 13 09:26 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kaley King
Posts: 1,027
Jefferson City, Missouri, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Look -- I'm going to bow out shortly.  You are upset, and I've said my piece -- here, you have an expectation that people will take you at your word.  In court, the judge will be expected to be skeptical.  If you have proof, that helps you.  But be aware that what you think of as proof may not be as powerful as you think it may be.  For example:

Are the people you mentioned earlier (e.g. the previous tenant) willing to appear on your behalf?


True, but how do you intend to PROVE that you were discriminated against due to your familial status?  How can you convince a skeptical judge of that serious charge?

This is all information I got from an attorney...they said pictures are the strongest evidence I could get, esp since I also sent it to them.

If they go into an apartment and judge someone more harshly because they have children...that equates to discrimination.

I believe because you are a landlord you want to make the deposit issue more difficult then it is.   They say my refrigerator was dirty...I have pics showing it wasn't....as directed by the attorney...okay.  It's a security deposit case...not a murder trial.   

I also wouldn't need anyone with me to say they were there when I took those particular pics...they put in a different bathroom floor when I lived there...that's whats in the pics...

Jan 30 13 09:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
255 West
Posts: 6,468
New York, New York, US


I suspect she is harrassing you, perhaps trying to get you to move out. But if she truly just is a flake, then her management company will apologize to you and reing her in immediately.

Protect yourself this way:

1. Keep a careful paper trail (and photo records, as you have) ... and communicate accurately and as often as you need to keep the issue in front of the building management's face. (Email is best, by far ... it's legal in court, and you don't have to make endless copies and they can't deny having received them.)
Anything spoken verbally or in any other way casually, you should write up and send in an email (as in "This is to confirm we spoke by phone on Tuesday January xx when you assured me xxxxx ... ".

2. If you don't feel satisfied within a reasonable period of time, a couple of weeks or one rent cycle), contact your local political office and speak to the housing specialist and tell your story (it's 100% free, and highly effective ... if nothing else, you document your prblem with an official office with just a phone call. ALWAYS, ALWAYS ALWAYS get the name of who you spoke with, and record when and what was discussed -- RECORDS ARE YOUR FRIEND!)

You may not the only one getting jerked around by this woman, and your complaint will seem more credible if there are other complainants with the same issue, and vice versa).

Look into the "Breach of Warranty of Habitability" where your peace of mind and freedom from harassment from the landlord is guaranteed by law.

http://nicholasmoccia.hubpages.com/hub/ … n-New-York

http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/contra … z2JTyBVceW

One extra tidbit of infinitely useful advice, always write a letter as though it will be read by a judge ... because it may very well be.
Jan 30 13 09:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
255 West
Posts: 6,468
New York, New York, US


In MO it is the landlords responsibility to ...

FORGET your opinion. It counts for nothing. Know the law, and read your lease, and trust experts (lawyers and other (non-lawyer) housing-law experts.)

Also, what is in the lease may or may not be enforceable because state law always  overrules the landlord's lease. Never take what is written into the lease as enforcable unless state law allows it.

Some landlords are ignorant of the law, and some pretend to be. Arm yourself with reality, not your opinion.

Jan 30 13 10:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,353
Tempe, Arizona, US


La Lana  wrote:

I have done enough research to know that I don't have to have a lawyer to sue...and I can guarantee you they don't want to spend money on a lawyer either.

At the end of it, it will probably be a lot more then a 100 that they try to take, and it's illegal if it's wrong.  It's MY money.  I know for a fact they held money to fix things in the apartment that I am in now, and didn't fix them....that's stealing someone's money. 

Also, the way a landlord looks at wear and tear has to be different for families then it would a single person...otherwise it can be looked at as judging someone harsher because they have kids...which is discrimination based on familial status...which is illegal.

If you know all of this is illegal, what are you worried about?!

Jan 30 13 10:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
luv2bfitt
Posts: 725
Merrimack, New Hampshire, US


Ever see the movie "Pacific Heights?" Granted it's a dramatization, but it shows who really has the burden of proof in landlord/renter disputes...
Jan 30 13 10:17 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,001
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


EdwardKristopher wrote:
If you know all of this is illegal, what are you worried about?!

Kind of have to wonder at this point what she thought she'd learn from MM, since she's already consulted with a lawyer...

Jan 30 13 10:26 am  Link  Quote 
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