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Model
Dezyra
Posts: 1
Tampa, Florida, US


I recently spoke to a photographer who was decent at first and then decided I wasn't fit because I had children. This was before I said I could mane arrangements. Seriously?
Jan 28 13 05:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Dezyra wrote:
I recently spoke to a photographer who was decent at first and then decided I wasn't fit because I had children. This was before I said I could mane arrangements. Seriously?

Why did you mention your children at all?

That will be a red flag for some as they will fear you may flake if there's a problem with your kids.

The safest and most professional policy is to never mention your children when arranging shoots.



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Jan 28 13 05:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kev Lawson
Posts: 6,660
Fort Myers, Florida, US


Don't let it get to you... there are tons of photographers out there.
Jan 28 13 05:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
37photog
Posts: 692
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Strange.  Although if you had to reschedule, or had trouble scheduling due to the kids I suppose that's a somewhat warranted reason. Or if you wanted to bring them along.

Otherwise I agree, don't let it get to you.  His loss, not yours.
Jan 28 13 05:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,338
Tempe, Arizona, US


I wouldn't worry about it!  :-)

Keep smiling, have funn and stay safe!

Kindest regards,
Edward
Jan 28 13 05:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,965
Chicago, Illinois, US


OP, I wouldn't mention children.   I've found when models do its more likely they may flake or cancel last minute.   Maybe the photographer has had model with babysitting problems.   I have.
Jan 28 13 05:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14,570
Seminole, Florida, US


Dezyra wrote:
Poor photographer experience

We're not all that way. wink

Jan 28 13 06:10 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 34,408
San Francisco, California, US


I like kids.  Heck, I like you.  Well, actually, I don't know you but I think you have a great look.

I wouldn't worry about it.
Jan 28 13 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
B R E N N A N
Posts: 4,087
Charlotte, North Carolina, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

Why did you mention your children at all?

That will be a red flag for some as they will fear you may flake if there's a problem with your kids.

The safest and most professional policy is to never mention your children when arranging shoots.



Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

This. And yes, I am a parent.

Jan 28 13 06:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,174
Salem, Oregon, US


heck, we do daycare in our studio. i wouldn't be proactive about mentioning kids because they might think you'll flake because of them. we had a MUA reschedule on short notice because her kid spiked a 103 degree fever in daycare. but if the kids aren't coming to the shoot then really why should they even care?

there are lots of photographers here. shake it off and go find another one.
Jan 28 13 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Thomas Van Dyke
Posts: 1,446
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Dezyra, some individuals for whatever reason may not fully comprehend the responsibilities latent with parenting... fortunately they remain in the minority... as other have said, just move on...

btw, our studio policy is cell phones must be turned off except for single parents (male or female) in which case there are compelling reasons to have that option available... we want the talent to be totally at ease and relax least the narrative be compromised...

However please understand if there is a client in the mix i.e. paid commercial work you would be wise not to solicit or accept work of this nature if there is the possibility you might have to either cancel at the last moment or be pulled off the set...

For others reading this... take note, this is the very reason agency talent will nearly always get the job for large budget projects... An agency has the ability to swap in comparable talent at moments notice irregardless of the need... that is why agencies exist... to assure reliable vetted quality talent in a timely manner...

Also keep in mind that on large budget jobs the photographer is typically not the decision maker, but rather this falls on the AD and/or their assign(s)... in those scenarios the photographer is simply another player in the mix... no more or less important than others on the team...

hope this makes sense...
Jan 28 13 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,491
Imperial, California, US


Ok, the guys a dumb ass!! Several of the girls I've shot have kids, and yes at times it's caused scheduling problems but that's a good reason to reschedule, at least they let me know when they aren't going to make it!
Jan 28 13 07:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jackson frontier photos
Posts: 531
Joplin, Missouri, US


Hope he doesn't ruin it for the rest of us.  Most of us have other roles and responsibilities, would be more concerning if we didn't.
Jan 28 13 08:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JimBobLc
Posts: 199
Martinsburg, West Virginia, US


He did tell you why, or at least one reason. He isn't obliged to work with you or anyone else regardless his reasons. Although it seems like refusing to work with anyone with children would limit his choices. Perhaps there were other reasons as well, but he didn't want to got in to the details too much.
Jan 28 13 08:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 5,232
San Diego, California, US


..
Jan 28 13 09:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Caffreys Photography
Posts: 30
Katy, Texas, US


My thoughts are that if you have children and you want to work in this biz then it is your responsibility to make arrangements for your children while doing all in your power to keep your bookings. To bad for him. I would have worked with you.
Jan 29 13 07:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jhono Bashian
Posts: 2,427
Cleveland, Ohio, US


There are always a few jack asses in the herd.
Jan 29 13 07:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ed Woodson Photography
Posts: 2,644
Savannah, Georgia, US


The #1 reason for models re-scheduling, or cancelling, shoots with me is a problem with a child.  Sick...  the Babysitter cancelled & etc.

I don't generally ask a model if she has children.  If they offer that information I don't reject them for it.

For me, it's no big deal if a model does cancel, or reschedule, as I'm retired and never do more than about two shoots in a week.

So far, the best advice you've gotten is if you aren't asked about children, don't volunteer the information.
Jan 29 13 07:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mirror With A Memory
Posts: 282
New York, New York, US


There are more fish in the sea.
Jan 29 13 07:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jason B FORBEs
Posts: 163
New York, New York, US


Never mention kids. It's the unwritten rule of the industry.
Jan 29 13 07:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Truthfully, in my opinion if it's a paid shoot and the model accepts, then it's the model's responsibility to make whatever arrangements (especially for emergencies) as might be needed to insure that she/he shows up as scheduled, more so than most other paying jobs since there are often others (MUAH, Assts, etc) also there on the clock.

If it's a one-on-one TF shoot then there's no real issue with cancelling and/or rescheduling so long as she/he calls asap.

With paid shoots I generally had back-up, on-call models that could work in a pinch. Never allowed family (kids) to accompany a model. Too distracting and an insurance liability.
Jan 30 13 04:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


Welcome to MM. I've been stood up, my deduction was that after adding me on FB someone saw that I didn't have a single status.

In future correspondence don't give more information than is needed just tell them you need to make sure you make the necessary arrangements. No one needs to know anything about your personal life, whatever they assume is their own problem.
Jan 30 13 04:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9,439
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Yes I think it is because somehow the personal life got found out. I hope you didn't mention that in your correspondence. 

That is one side of modeling that is kept apart. During the first shoot sometimes things are mentioned but before a first shooting it's not a good idea.
Jan 30 13 04:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,876
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


Photography is a creative art and a reflection of the personal style, goals, and attitude of the participants.  You will always meet people that are not a good match for you for whatever reason.  Luckily, you will also meet several people where everything clicks like magic. 

There are hundreds of solid photographers in your area, so just move on and do not get dragged down by idiots.  Its much better for conflicts with people to show up early to avoid a shoot rather than latter after you have invested more effort.

-Scott
Jan 30 13 04:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Syosset Studio
Posts: 296
Syosset, New York, US


Dezyra wrote:
I recently spoke to a photographer who was decent at first and then decided I wasn't fit because I had children. This was before I said I could mane arrangements. Seriously?

Probably not; it looks more like you're joking about a hairy situation.

Jan 30 13 05:00 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Leone P
Posts: 515
Batley, England, United Kingdom


I don't see why he would take that attitude. I have children too but would never flake as i always make sure my husband is home and that their grandparents are on stand by incase he needs help etc.
Childcare isn't a problem for me and it shouldn't be for the photographer either.

Instead of discriminating against models with children, try applauding them for following their passions.

*sigh!*
Jan 30 13 05:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 17,908
Orlando, Florida, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:
OP, I wouldn't mention children.   I've found when models do its more likely they may flake or cancel last minute.   Maybe the photographer has had model with babysitting problems.   I have.

Yeah because models without kids don't flake due to their "grandmas dying" or car troubles. Odds are the same whether they have kids or not. I had way more childless 18 year old flake on me. Never once have I had a rescheduled due to babysitting issues and I have been shooting for 6 years. I smell BS and the photographer was probably interested in a date and got turn off at hearing the word kids.

Jan 30 13 07:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 17,908
Orlando, Florida, US


OP I'm in central florida if you want I can do a test shoot than you can rub the amazing photos on his face when he goes check out your port. So he can see what he missed.
Jan 30 13 07:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 23,842
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Dezyra wrote:
I recently spoke to a photographer who was decent at first and then decided I wasn't fit because I had children. This was before I said I could mane arrangements. Seriously?

Depending on the project I'd want to see more pics of your tummy, since most moms I've shot require a bit more retouching. This isn't an issue if I get paid, since that's what I'm paid for, but I may pass for a trade shoot.

As far as kids for scheduling, I'd assume that if someone says "yes I can make it that day" then they can make it that day and are serious, their family or life isn't my concern and wouldn't be an issue.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Jan 30 13 07:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Christie Gabriel
Posts: 2,799
Chicago, Illinois, US


Leone P wrote:
I don't see why he would take that attitude. I have children too but would never flake as i always make sure my husband is home and that their grandparents are on stand by incase he needs help etc.
Childcare isn't a problem for me and it shouldn't be for the photographer either.

Instead of discriminating against models with children, try applauding them for following their passions.

*sigh!*

X1000
Wondering why people assume models with children are less responsible than those without. 9 times out of 10 the opposite is true as children have a way of making you grow up quick and handle your sh*t.

Jan 30 13 07:42 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Christie Gabriel
Posts: 2,799
Chicago, Illinois, US


Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:
Depending on the project I'd want to see more pics of your tummy, since most moms I've shot require a bit more retouching. This isn't an issue if I get paid, since that's what I'm paid for, but I may pass for a trade shoot.

Funny, most mommy models I know have no tummy stretch marks. Me included.

Jan 30 13 07:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2,342
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Jhono Bashian wrote:
There are always a few jack asses in the herd.

I once saw a herd of elephants. Not a single donkey anywhere. So you're wrong.

Jan 30 13 08:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Danny Does Glamour
Posts: 2,342
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Christie Gabriel wrote:

X1000
Wondering why people assume models with children are less responsible than those without. 9 times out of 10 the opposite is true as children have a way of making you grow up quick and handle your sh*t.

People with children get up and go to work everyday. Photographers become so worried about "flakes" that their ability to be logical starts to elude them.

Jan 30 13 08:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sammyspade
Posts: 98
Portland, Oregon, US


Wow.  This is the only industry I know of where it seems to be OK to discriminate against someone because they have kids.  I hope that photog never runs a real business 'cause he'll get sued (and lose).

Let me put this another way - if this were for employment, the employer would be in clear violation of the law for making any decisions based on the persons family status.  If the photographer is retaining the model as an independent contractor he *may* be in violation depending on his location.  In some areas discrimination laws extend to independent contractors - in others, they don't.

Bottom line - if you're a photog, and you're making decisions based on things like whether they have kids or not - then you're an idiot.
Jan 30 13 08:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,965
Chicago, Illinois, US


A-M-P wrote:

Yeah because models without kids don't flake due to their "grandmas dying" or car troubles. Odds are the same whether they have kids or not. I had way more childless 18 year old flake on me. Never once have I had a rescheduled due to babysitting issues and I have been shooting for 6 years. I smell BS and the photographer was probably interested in a date and got turn off at hearing the word kids.

I have no interest in dating the OP and if she mentioned her kids I would be put off  by it.   Unless the children are part of the shoot why bring them up at all.   Its none of our business.   Its been my experience that when models talk about kids, car problems, etc. its a set up for flakery.   Maybe that guy felt the same.   We don't know how their conversation went or the vibe the OP gave.   She's pretty but I'm betting she won't be trying to do any unpaid shoots either.

Jan 30 13 08:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 17,908
Orlando, Florida, US


Tony Lawrence wrote:
I have no interest in dating the OP and if she mentioned her kids I would be put off  by it.   Unless the children are part of the shoot why bring them up at all.   Its none of our business.   Its been my experience that when models talk about kids, car problems, etc. its a set up for flakery.   Maybe that guy felt the same.   We don't know how their conversation went or the vibe the OP gave.   She's pretty but I'm betting she won't be trying to do any unpaid shoots either.

Have you not wondered if the photographer was the one who might asked about her personal life if so what do you do lie?

When I used to do some modeling back in the day I encounter quite a few nousy photographers. Maybe she brought it up or maybe he asked more details about her. I don't know but I find that a weak excuse to cancel a shoot but whatever his loss.

Jan 30 13 08:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,174
Salem, Oregon, US


i think kids are sometimes a reason for cancelling/rescheduling. but so are a lot of other things. and i think it's wrong to hate on kids. they are part of the human condition.
Jan 30 13 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 17,908
Orlando, Florida, US


twoharts wrote:
we had a MUA cancel on short notice because her kid spiked a 103 degree fever in daycare and they wouldn't let the kid stay. so kids can be a reason for cancelling. but so can a lot of other things.


exactly my point

Jan 30 13 08:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,174
Salem, Oregon, US


and it wouldn't surprise me if you were right about the photographer actually wanting a date and getting turned off by the idea of kids. i've never asked a model or MUA if they had kids. but if they mention having trouble getting a sitter i tell them to bring the kids along to the studio.

A-M-P wrote:
exactly my point

Jan 30 13 08:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 18,965
Chicago, Illinois, US


A-M-P wrote:

Have you not wondered if the photographer was the one who might asked about her personal life if so what do you do lie?

Who knows.   Its none of his business.   Odds are great he did ask because very few of the models I've shot who had children brought them up.   Maybe he was interested in a date.   Maybe he wasn't.   He decided not too shoot her and that's the reason he gave and unless we hear otherwise its done.   That doesn't make him a as&hole as a member hinted.   How can we truly know his motives without hearing from him.   Oops, I forgot MM members are mind readers.

Jan 30 13 08:50 am  Link  Quote 
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