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first2345
Photographer
TomFRohwer
Posts: 611
Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany


Luke Ryan Photography wrote:
However, it seems to me that most models really only engage in modeling for 1-3 years and then stop.

Photographers on the other hand seem to be into photograpy for life.

Models have a best-before date. Photographers should get better with age.

Feb 01 13 04:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PaulHomsyPhotography
Posts: 96
Los Angeles, California, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
I'm pretty sure the question was "Why do GIRLS give up llamaing?" And people are offering various reasons why. It may come as a shock to you but some of those responses you find so sexist are actually accurate for the group of llamas we're talking about. Yes, there are male llamas. The OP didn't ask about male llamas.

Models who give it up often do, in fact, give up their llamaing based on the current man that is in their life. Some llamas who give it up after a short period of time did use it as a hobby and something to brag about to their FB friends. You can argue that and give all the individual exceptions you want...but, as usual, it's just threadjacking.

Nobody is talking about the llamas who take it seriously or are currently making a living from it...or the question would have been "What motivates llamas?"

1

Feb 02 13 10:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PaulHomsyPhotography
Posts: 96
Los Angeles, California, US


Eliza C wrote:

I am sure you didn't. Nevertheless I find it sexist. Just pointing that out.
This part:

"Something to brag about on their FB page and maybe remember fondly as they age, after having kids and "settling down".

If it had said "...or pursuing an alternative career" it would have been acceptable but you made a stereotype. One that I don't think is true for the majority of models.

I accept your point about 'newbie' models but would argue that they were never really models - as in paid professionals - to start with. It still doesn't mean they won't go on to pursue successful careers. It was the settling down and having kids bit I found a little condescending towards women in general. Of course lots of women do have kids but these days they can also pursue careers at the same time while their husbands - even photographers - take on a little more of the responsibility!

So that doesn't get to the root of the question why women give up on modelling. The answer simply is that models have a short shelf life generally as you are unlikely to be doing it at 60 so one chooses something else for the long term future.

And the same would apply to male models. And female photographers are also likely to be into photography for life.

Eliza, whether it's an alternative career, settling down or having bragging rights on FB, it doesn't matter. People take different directions in life for various reasons. To mention the settling down aspect is far from sexist since it is part of many peoples' lives. Nothing exceptional there.
It happens to be true for several models I know who were exceptionally successful prior to their marrying and having babies. There is nothing insulting, sexist or remotely insulting about mentioning "settling down". My parents settled down...
I wont ask you to settle down...LOL. Best of luck with your modeling career. I wish you much continued success.

Feb 02 13 11:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PaulHomsyPhotography
Posts: 96
Los Angeles, California, US


TomFRohwer wrote:

Models have a best-before date. Photographers should get better with age.

Well said. And during their modeling years work very hard to maintain all aspects of their marketability. Physical attributes are the only reason they are able to model. Market demands require a certain look. Swimmers retire early, skiers can ski till they drop. Gymnasts retire even earlier than models, golfers can play till they can no longer figure what hole they're playing on. The distinction is that the younger set of athletes can compete while the older set does it for recreation. It is difficult to model for "recreation".

Not everything is as ephemeral as a modeling career and not everything as long lasting as a behind the scenes career such as photography, directing, medicine, law and ton of others.

Feb 02 13 11:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotticelli
Posts: 12,075
Lorton, Virginia, US


William Kious wrote:

ONE model accidentally sees me pick my nose on camera and I'm branded for life.

*sigh*

I do think the overwhelming perv factor plays a big part. I had the good fortune to talk very candidly with a model friend recently and I literally had NO idea just how pervasive the perv-ness gets. I literally had... no... clue.

hmm

I didn't either until I saw an anti-escort thread.

Feb 02 13 11:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eric Jackson
Posts: 1,290
Dayton, Ohio, US


CBAPhoto wrote:
It's a "passion" as long as someone is telling them how great they look and how wonderful their photos look. As soon as those aspects start to taper and the facts of modeling start settling in, mainly that it's actually a lot of work, their "passion" is easily swayed in another direction.

Their problem is two-fold: They're not fully aware of what "passion" really is, nor are they aware of what modeling really is.

This.

Feb 02 13 11:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,086
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Aaliyah Love wrote:
define "most llamas." Are you talking about girls from llama Mayhem? Most of my friends are llamas who have been making their income off of llamaing for years, including me.
But if I did most of my "modeling" off of this website, I would of quit a long time ago also.hmm I hardly get any offers that don't involve some sort of sex or other creepiness, or people expecting me to work all day for next to nothing $. Or people who only shoot a few times a year sending me patronizing/insulting emails like "you need to lower your rate honey, NOBODY is going to pay that."
If I didn't know how else to book jobs, I'd be super discouraged too. Just sayin.

I think there's truth in this. Some friends who are full-time llamas tell me that about 15% of their income comes from MM.

Feb 02 13 11:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotticelli
Posts: 12,075
Lorton, Virginia, US


Why do models give up? Because they wake up one day being 22 years old.
Feb 02 13 11:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sourcelight Photography
Posts: 245
BOISE, Idaho, US


MoRina wrote:
I have said this many times, but when I started modeling at age 44 and immediately getting paid work, a lot of people just couldn't believe it.  Many people asked (and still ask) "how do you do it?"  My answer has always been the same:  answer your emails promptly and pick up the phone when someone calls.  This puts you ahead of all the other models who may have been "first choice." Return voicemail quickly. 

There are photographers all over the country waving hundred dollar bills, but you have to show up to get them.

Precisely.  I'm waving paid work at 6 local models right now.  The offer was made a month ago; it's a professional inquiry with precise details--very straight-forward, nothing creepy or even remotely inappropriate, either in the work itself or in the way I've presented it.  I do quality work, I have an unblemished reputation for professional conduct, and I'm offering work that is exactly what the models say they want to do in their portfolios.  One read the offer immediately but hasn't seen fit to reply yet; the others haven't visited their portfolios since the offer was extended, and, apparently, they haven't figured out that they can set their preferences to notify them when they have a message here.  All of these models are relative newbies who haven't had time to burn out, and I suspect that sometime in the next year, they'll all drop out completely and if you were to ask them why, they'll probably moan that no one ever called them to model.  That will be a self-serving lie.

There are a few local models who take their activity seriously, and they're the ones I work with.  When they get ready to retire or just take a long break for whatever reason, I'll certainly respect their wishes and wave a fond farewell as they move onto whatever comes next.

It's a job.  It's also a business.  You either show up or you don't.  Those who do, get respect and, occasionally, money; those who don't, well... they'll always have Facebook and the Model Mayhem forums to confirm how unfair the world is. 

Part of the problem here is that this discussion is lumping two disparate entities into one stew.  Models who have been making a real effort to treat this activity with some respect are indignant because the photographers who are arguing with them don't seem to respect their legitimate reasons for wanting to quit.  The problem is that there is a big difference between a model who has been working professionally but wants a break and the wannabe who never took any of this seriously and was never really in the business in the first place.  Unfortunately, the latter represents the largest demographic on a modeling site that started out as an informal chat room.  I suspect that professional networking between models and photographers who want to connect for serious work was never going to be Model Mayhem's strong suit, and asking "why do models quit" begs the question: which kind of "model" do you mean?  Hats off to the real ones who make themselves available here; I'm a colleague, and I appreciate how hard it is to manage a one-person business successfully.  The rest of you?  You're trying my patience, and the sooner you quit, the happier I'll be.  Unfortunately, of course, your profile will still linger on collecting ad revenue for MM for another ten years.

Feb 10 13 05:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Misty R H
Posts: 471
Anaheim, California, US


William Kious wrote:
This. smile


See, I don't completely agree with this... age is relative.

1. Keep in mind that all age groups are needed for commercial llamas.  A llama can still llama when he/she is older...the type of llamaing just changes. Being a commercial llama isn't as glamorous as fashion/runway but it is still a type of llamaing.

I am 49 years old and an agency represented commercial llama.  No I don't make alot of money at it...but I never expected to.  I am doing it because I enjoy it. If I was doing it to make a living at it I would have already quit.

Feb 10 13 05:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 765
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


We get it that female models put up with a lot of sh*t, here and elsewhere. At least I think most of us get it. I for one just hate to see a talented model retire. Especially if it's a model I've wanted to shoot and never had the opportunity. And even more if it's one I've worked with and would like to work with again.
Feb 10 13 09:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,528
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Most of the models who give up after a few months or years are not with an agency.  They realize there is no money in it and that the full time models, %99 of the time, are agency models.
Feb 10 13 09:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Karlieh G
Posts: 48
Auburn, Kentucky, US


DAN CRUIKSHANK wrote:
It's harder to be a model. People criticize a photographers photos, no biggie, people criticize a models appearance, more personal. I'm sure it gets old after a while and stops being as fun.

+1

Feb 10 13 09:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lost Coast Photo
Posts: 2,674
Ferndale, California, US


While a photographer can continue to take photos no matter how mediocre they are... the landscape is always there, if nothing else... a model needs someone willing to work with them (self-portraits excepted). So I'm not surprised that many get discouraged when the world doesn't beat a path to their door in the first few weeks.

Many models (and many photographers) also come in with unrealistic expectations, often based on what they've read on sites like this one. That doesn't help any.

It can be so easy for the lucky few who "get" marketing or who happen to meet the right people early, and who have the right look and choose the right genre for that look. For most it takes years of hard work to barely get by. Even the successful ones get discouraged on some days.
Feb 10 13 10:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AshLey
Posts: 2
Los Angeles, California, US


I just barely started, and already some people tell me it's about too late. I am in my early 20's, and most tell me I got to be 18 or so to get anywhere. Kind of discouraging, but still I'll keep moving foreward. One step at a time.

In my honest opinion, a model giving up can have alot of meaning. Life got busy. School, work, family, and ect all do get in the way. Life is meant to be struck by obstacles, and never a actual straight path.
Feb 12 13 10:07 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Melodye Joy
Posts: 542
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US


I must be either crazy or one of the few that DID grasp what 'passion' is...

Because I began late in life and I have been actively pursuing modeling since 2006...

Are there times that I want to quit? No, but I do get frustrated, I do feel the pain of age, height, blemishes, whatever may ale my abilities.

I have heard everything under the sun as to why I should quit, including from an ex fiance' that didn't understand why I loved to do this, paid or not. Why I would work long hours, (sometimes) drive hours away from home, get prepared and shoot for hours more only to receive a few edited images. Note; this is one of many reasons why he is a EX.

Learning from everyone I have worked with, always reminding myself of how to elongate, not to look too far off from the camera...

For me, I choose to push forward and what happens, happens. I may make something of this yet, and I may find it an enjoyable venture outside of my 'normal' daily routine.


Either way, I choose to continue on this blessed adventure!
Feb 12 13 10:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Yum Yum Photo
Posts: 442
Park Ridge, New Jersey, US


why do you assume all photographers are men.

maybe models are smart and are not only modeling but going to college and working towards a paying longer lasting career choice.
Feb 12 13 11:36 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Abigail Rose Hill
Posts: 538
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


Modelling is fun for me and I know it won't last forever but until the work tails off (or I have some sort of life-altering experience that puts me off) i'll keep going.

I think part of me appreciates it more because I didn't actually want to model until I got the chance to and it just snowballed. I often wonder what happens to the girls who make it their sole ambition - only to not make the height/size/grade in other aspects. How do they cope with the realisation? Do they keep trying to crack the industry? Do they just give up and go back to normality?
Feb 12 13 02:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,551
Salinas, California, US


There are so many reasons why a model would give up on modeling as there are models!   The number one might be that they find out that it's a lot of work, and not all they thought it would be?   There is no "easy button" for models and photographers!  Well there is sorta for "wanna be" photographers ... buttons like "A" and "P" on their camera.   lol 

Why don't we have a discussion on what it takes to keep at it?  Words like "commitment" and "enjoyment" come to my mind as to why I'm still here.  wink
Feb 12 13 02:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,551
Salinas, California, US


Abi Hill wrote:
Modelling is fun for me and I know it won't last forever but until the work tails off (or I have some sort of life-altering experience that puts me off) i'll keep going.

I think part of me appreciates it more because I didn't actually want to model until I got the chance to and it just snowballed. I often wonder what happens to the girls who make it their sole ambition - only to not make the height/size/grade in other aspects. How do they cope with the realisation? Do they keep trying to crack the industry? Do they just give up and go back to normality?

You have the right attitude!   borat

Feb 12 13 02:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raven Photography
Posts: 2,547
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Luke Ryan Photography wrote:
However, it seems to me that most models really only engage in modeling for 1-3 years and then stop.

Photographers on the other hand seem to be into photograpy for life.

You have that right. I have deleted over 100 female models in the past year from my friends list simply because after a year they don't log in anymore. I find it quite frustrating. banghead

Feb 12 13 11:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Personality Imaging
Posts: 1,594
Hoover, Alabama, US


Look how many new mm models say "Paid assignments only" and "No experience" - that says it all.  They just all of a sudden think they are pretty and that they should get paid for it.
Feb 12 13 11:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4,716
Houston, Texas, US


TomFRohwer wrote:

Models have a best-before date. Photographers should get better with age.

According to one photographer on here....we're used up by the age of 30..

I thought, "POPPYCOCK!"   Okay, I actually thought, .. F#$# You! 


I didn't start shooting professionally until I was in my mid 30s..
That was a long time ago. I'm still learning and hopefully..getting better smile

Feb 13 13 04:36 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Persephone Sweetsin
Posts: 27
Cape May, New Jersey, US


I know a cpl models who asked for my help with modeling, and once I do help them with contacting a photographer that I worked with, everything seems fine...until they find out they don't get paid, then when i ask if they want to do more with modeling, or they decide to find work for themselves, they stop all together lol.

As someone who is beginning with modeling, they don't seem to understand that they aren't going to get paid, even if they do nude work (unless of course someone offers, without the model asking/demanding to be paid).

I've practiced with posing for about 3yrs, and I'm going on 2yrs of doing modeling, and I feel this is something I'l do for a very long time, even if I never get anywhere with it, I love what I do, even when I don't get paid. It takes strong commitment, and patience to be a model, it's definitely not for everyone.
Feb 14 13 07:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Most has to do with unmet goals and unrealistic expectations from the start.

Outside pressures may be part of it, but I would suspect (hope) that it has more to do with a model thinking "Well, that was fun.... What's next for me in my life?" versus a boyfriend telling her what she can/cannot do.
Feb 14 13 07:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Yum Yum Photo wrote:
maybe models are smart and are not only modeling but going to college and working towards a paying longer lasting career choice.

Yes!!

Feb 14 13 07:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Abby Hawkins
Posts: 2,002
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I went through a phase where I hated modeling, wanted nothing to do it with.

It had nothing to do with the art itself, but the industry.  I hit the ground running in college, hoping I could at least make some money to help pay tuition, and I got so burnt out, getting passed for jobs, being told, point blank, that I was "too big" to model and that I was better off marketing myself as "New York plus size" (which starts at size 8, and I'm a size 6).   I hated going to go sees with girls who were terrible at what they were doing, only to see them get the gig because they'd fit the sample sizes.

I'm now doing my own thing, enjoying it on my own terms (it helps that I'm "old and fat" by modeling standards, so I don't even hold out hope for any type of career with it), and am slowly finding the passion I once had for modeling.
Feb 14 13 07:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
richardsphotographybc
Posts: 415
Langley, British Columbia, Canada


John Allan wrote:
Because every 'pretty girl' thinks and/or is told, she should be a llama.
And sites like MM or right there to capitalize on unrealistic dreams.
Then reality sets in.

100% true.smile

Feb 14 13 11:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Vampman Studios
Posts: 354
Chicago, Illinois, US


From what I've seen, the three reasons are:

1. Men. Either the model gets a boyfriend who disapproves of her modeling, or the model runs into too many creepers.

2. Job. Modeling rarely pays the bills, and eventually models stop doing the gigs and get a "real" job.

3. Age. Depending on what kind of modeling they do, some models just become too old to keep up with the younger, more spritely girls and eventually they retire.
Feb 15 13 01:35 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 36,213
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Vampman Studios wrote:
2. Job. Modeling rarely pays the bills, and eventually models stop doing the gigs and get a "real" job.

I finally got a "real" job this year, but I did it because I wanted to, and because I needed a new challenge and a fresh start.

I make less money in the regular working world than I made modeling. By far. What I used to make in a 3 hour session now takes me 10 hours to earn at a regular job.

working a 9-5 job has NEVER been nearly as profitable for me as modeling was and it's very hard to model "part time" to keep those decent, fast sums coming in, after you start working a regular job, because long commute times and a demanding 9-5 schedule will keep you boxed in. It will limit the amount of time and energy (and funds because the average mainstream job pays crap) you are able to reinvest in modeling efforts.

I don't know why anyone would leave modeling, and go back to a 9-5 "for the money," because there is no real money in working mainstream jobs - not for most people anyway.

There has to be another motivating factor. I just wanted to do something more "mature" with myself, so I could feel normal again.

Feb 15 13 03:55 am  Link  Quote 
Film/TV Producer
ButchArri
Posts: 53
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


I think we all should agree that it's harder to be a model.  Now I'm not saying there's miles and miles of distance between the difficulties of models and photographers, but it's definitely a more personal situation when it's your face and body splayed across someone's desk for when crit time rolls around.  Criticism can be extremely difficult to take as a photographer when you know you've worked your ass off.

The main difference between Photographers and models in terms of time in is the fact that Photographers keep learning more and hopefully doing more as they go along and grow. (when that can't happen for financial reasons Photographers tend to drop out of the business as well)  Time for models, on the other hand is their worst enemy particularly for paying work and gaining the necessary influence to constantly get good consistent referral work.
Feb 15 13 08:16 am  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
MainePaintah
Posts: 1,703
Saco, Maine, US


Abby Hawkins wrote:
I went through a phase where I hated modeling, wanted nothing to do it with.

It had nothing to do with the art itself, but the industry.  I hit the ground running in college, hoping I could at least make some money to help pay tuition, and I got so burnt out, getting passed for jobs, being told, point blank, that I was "too big" to model and that I was better off marketing myself as "New York plus size" (which starts at size 8, and I'm a size 6).   I hated going to go sees with girls who were terrible at what they were doing, only to see them get the gig because they'd fit the sample sizes.

I'm now doing my own thing, enjoying it on my own terms (it helps that I'm "old and fat" by modeling standards, so I don't even hold out hope for any type of career with it), and am slowly finding the passion I once had for modeling.

You may be "old and fat" by modeling standards (I don't agree), but I would say that you are a sculptor's and artist's dream model!!!!!
Have you ever posed for an artist or a sculptor? I am surprised that no one down in Boston hasn't made you their Muse and kept you for their own!
Come to Maine!!!!

Feb 15 13 08:25 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Cynthia Serrano
Posts: 12,466
Newark, New Jersey, US


William Kious wrote:
- They get tired of desperate photographers hitting on them

- They get tired of the innuendo and forced sexual tension

- Another party influences the decision to quit (sluggo, boyfriend, etc.)

- They fail to meet set goals (not being published, making money, etc.)

- They wind up with hundreds (if not thousands) of pictures

- They grow weary of travel

- They didn't find the butterflies and rainbows they were looking for

- Or a dozen other reasons

+1 Could be any number of reasons

Feb 15 13 08:30 am  Link  Quote 
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