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Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


I would consider myself somewhat of a scout. Sometimes when companies or people that I know need a photographer I help out by finding one for them. When I do find the one, especially the ones I  really admire their work and would probably want to shoot with myself, some are very ignorant or just ignore. I am always polite and mention how much I love their work when I send out a message, email or call. Furthermore I mention that it is a paid project etc. I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

GIVING REFERRALS IS WHAT I MEAN, PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME.
Jan 30 13 03:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ms-photo
Posts: 421
Portland, Oregon, US


I will help you decipher photographers as soon as someone else deciphers what you just wrote.
Jan 30 13 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lars R Peterson
Posts: 1,066
Seattle, Washington, US


I can't judge based on what you said, or how you said it... because you didn't tell us,...

But I know, personally, if I received a message from a "middle-man"... my first instinct would be to think it was probably spam, or a scam. When a real project comes along, usually the people who are actually involved will contact me.
Jan 30 13 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,713
Salinas, California, US


Me-L wrote:
I would consider myself somewhat of a scout. Sometimes when companies or people that I know need a photographer I help out by finding one for them. When I do find the one, especially the ones I  really admire their work and would probably want to shoot with myself, some are very ignorant or just ignore. I am always polite and mention how much I love their work when I send out a message, email or call. Furthermore I mention that it is a paid project etc. I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

I can explain it in one sentence.

>>>>  Some people just don't appreciate what you do. 

Jan 30 13 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
i c e c o l d
Posts: 8,610
Fort Myers, Florida, US


Me-L wrote:
I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

The bolded part is your answer!

We don't like being contacted by middlemen. 

Me-L wrote:
I would consider myself somewhat of a scout.

I'm not sure how you are wording your inquiry but its possible that you are coming off as sounding like a scam, SPAM or like every other 18 y/o model who thinks she is a club promoter, model manager, fashion consultant, etc...

Just because you think you are a scout...doesn't mean you really are.

Jan 30 13 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
-The Dave-
Posts: 8,515
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Moderator Note!

Me-L wrote:
I would consider myself somewhat of a scout. Sometimes when companies or people that I know need a photographer I help out by finding one for them. When I do find the one, especially the ones I  really admire their work and would probably want to shoot with myself, some are very ignorant or just ignore. I am always polite and mention how much I love their work when I send out a message, email or call. Furthermore I mention that it is a paid project etc. I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

You realize that you can NOT be a scout on MM or to use MM for that purpose, right?

Jan 30 13 03:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,713
Salinas, California, US


Lars R Peterson wrote:
I can't judge based on what you said, or how you said it... because you didn't tell us,...

But I know, personally, if I received a message from a "middle-man"... my first instinct would be to think it was probably spam, or a scam. When a real project comes along, usually the people who are actually involved will contact me.

I do understand what she is asking.  It's not about bring a "middle person" or others being so much cynical of a scam, as these people often know who referred them.  I've referred people to others before too.  Often times I have done so without any expectations of monetary reward or even words of gratitude.  I do it because I can.  Don't have expectations towards others and you wont be disappointed.  Expect the best and most to come from you!

Jan 30 13 03:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DOUGLASFOTOS
Posts: 7,659
Los Angeles, California, US


-The Dave- wrote:

You realize that you can NOT be a scout on MM or to use MM for that purpose, right?

The Sound of Hands to the forehead slap..is quite loud. Maybe OP can be brig'd for outing herself? lol

Jan 30 13 03:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ME_
Posts: 3,104
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Me-L wrote:
I would consider myself somewhat of a scout. Sometimes when companies or people that I know need a photographer I help out by finding one for them. When I do find the one, especially the ones I  really admire their work and would probably want to shoot with myself, some are very ignorant or just ignore. I am always polite and mention how much I love their work when I send out a message, email or call. Furthermore I mention that it is a paid project etc. I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

I think you are saying that if you know someone who needs a photographer, you sometimes find one who might be good for the job and then contact him and tell them you are passing along some information on a possible job opportunity.

What would be a lot better, if you are truly just helping out companies or people you know, is to tell them that you have found a photographer who might fulfill their needs and provide them with that photographer's contact info. That is generally how referrals work. Give the info to the person who needs the service performed; do not contact the service provider and tell them, "Hey, total stranger, here's a job I think you'd be interested in."

Imagine if your friend needed a obstetrician. Would you contact a good OB who you thought would be a great doctor and tell him to call your friend because your friend was looking for someone just like him, and also, you'd be glad to have him be your OB if you were having a baby?

Jan 30 13 03:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,713
Salinas, California, US


-The Dave- wrote:

You realize that you can NOT be a scout on MM or to use MM for that purpose, right?

I didn't get the impression that she is doing this to make money or any such professional capacity.   She's just trying to swing some gigs to some photographers she likes, and then wonders why they don't show gratitude.

Jan 30 13 03:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Herman van Gestel
Posts: 1,804
Amsterdam, Noord-Holland, Netherlands


getting a lot of requests per day......it still takes a lot of time...not only MM, FB and other media....so yeah, lack of time...so it's not always possible to answer, and then time slides by...

if you're really interested, a second mail always helps smile

Herman.
Jan 30 13 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,157
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


I think many people ignore and don't respond to unsolicited offers and communications that don't interest them.
Jan 30 13 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,713
Salinas, California, US


ME_ wrote:

I think you are saying that if you know someone who needs a photographer, you sometimes find one who might be good for the job and then contact him and tell them you are passing along some information on a possible job opportunity.

What would be a lot better, if you are truly just helping out companies or people you know, is to tell them that you have found a photographer who might fulfill their needs and provide them with that photographer's contact info. That is generally how referrals work. Give the info to the person who needs the service performed; do not contact the service provider and tell them, "Hey, total stranger, here's a job I think you'd be interested in."

Imagine if your friend needed a obstetrician. Would you contact a good OB who you thought would be a great doctor and tell him to call your friend because your friend was looking someone just like him, and also, you'd be glad to have him be your OB if you were having a baby?

I've found great commercial venders fro myself, but I do not go trying to send people to them.  I keep my mechanic, custom photo lab, IT hosting biz, doctors, etc to myself because I've found that if people don't often like the referral for whatever reason, it comes back to bite you hard in the ass!!!  yikes

Jan 30 13 03:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
-The Dave-
Posts: 8,515
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
I didn't get the impression that she is doing this to make money or any such professional capacity.   She's just trying to swing some gigs to some photographers she likes, and then wonders why they don't show gratitude.

Giving referrals is awesome if that is what she means.

Jan 30 13 03:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,272
Buena Park, California, US


Me-L wrote:
I would consider myself somewhat of a scout. Sometimes when companies or people that I know need a photographer I help out by finding one for them. When I do find the one, especially the ones I  really admire their work and would probably want to shoot with myself, some are very ignorant or just ignore. I am always polite and mention how much I love their work when I send out a message, email or call. Furthermore I mention that it is a paid project etc. I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

hobbyists and they don't know what to do with paid offers

they are getting plenty of business and are not making the time to address your message.

they suck.

Jan 30 13 03:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,713
Salinas, California, US


-The Dave- wrote:

Giving referrals is awesome if that is what she means.

A direct referral from someone you personally know and trust is "awesome!"  However I'd like to ask something of her though ... ???  Because not everyone maybe aware of exactly where the referral came from. 

Any sort of referrals through email from a model you've not worked with before might go unnoticed.  I would say that if I have worked with that model, or perhaps the photographer in the past, then it comes across more personal rather than someone sending out spam of trying to act as a "scout" ... which we all know is a bad word on Modelmayhem!  wink

I do refer people on a "Personal" basis ... meaning that if you and I actually KNOW each other and are not just some strangers off the Internet.  I find that in those cases, I might actually get some gratitude.  wink

Jan 30 13 03:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,713
Salinas, California, US


-The Dave- wrote:

Giving referrals is awesome if that is what she means.

Also ... "if" anyone is getting spammed by any account on Modelmayhem ... I would hope they'd CAM it.  That is all.

Jan 30 13 03:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,729
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Lars R Peterson wrote:
But I know, personally, if I received a message from a "middle-man"... my first instinct would be to think it was probably spam, or a scam. When a real project comes along, usually the people who are actually involved will contact me.

My thinking would be this.

Or they are just not interested/are busy.

Jan 30 13 03:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raoul Isidro Images
Posts: 5,581
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


It's hard to be a middle man in the industry you are in right now.

So, maybe don't be. Concentrate on the other stuff.

But if being a middle man is what you are after, then concentrate on that and be the best.

.
Jan 30 13 04:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


-The Dave- wrote:

You realize that you can NOT be a scout on MM or to use MM for that purpose, right?

Yes and no I do not scout on Modelmayhem

Jan 30 13 04:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


ms-photo wrote:
I will help you decipher photographers as soon as someone else deciphers what you just wrote. [/q

ok
Jan 30 13 04:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Lars R Peterson wrote:
I can't judge based on what you said, or how you said it... because you didn't tell us,...

But I know, personally, if I received a message from a "middle-man"... my first instinct would be to think it was probably spam, or a scam. When a real project comes along, usually the people who are actually involved will contact me.

I understand what you mean. I guess I never looked at it that way.

Jan 30 13 04:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 3,340
State College, Pennsylvania, US


Me-L wrote:

Yes and no I do not scout on Modelmayhem

If you aren't running into the problem here on MM, maybe go to the source where you actually DO have the problem, and ask there.

And I know others have said this.. For myself, if a person inquires about working with me on the behalf on someone else, I ignore/delete/move on. My assumption is that the 'model' isn't mature enough to contact me herself, or that her 'manager' is going to try to somehow charge me for their 'expertise,' what that would be, I have no idea...

Jan 30 13 04:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


i c e c o l d wrote:

Me-L wrote:
I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

The bolded part is your answer!

We don't like being contacted by middlemen. 


I'm not sure how you are wording your inquiry but its possible that you are coming off as sounding like a scam, SPAM or like every other 18 y/o model who thinks she is a club promoter, model manager, fashion consultant, etc...

Just because you think you are a scout...doesn't mean you really are.

Ummm excuse me, I don't think I am a scout I just worded it that way to help people understand. I just refer people to photographers that I believe have nice work. Have a good evening, no need to be rude.

Jan 30 13 04:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


salvatori. wrote:

Me-L wrote:
Yes and no I do not scout on Modelmayhem

If you aren't running into the problem here on MM, maybe go to the source where you actually DO have the problem, and ask there.

And I know others have said this.. For myself, if a person inquires about working with me on the behalf on someone else, I ignore/delete/move on. My assumption is that the 'model' isn't mature enough to contact me herself, or that her 'manager' is going to try to somehow charge me for their 'expertise,' what that would be, I have no idea... [/qu

OH gosh face palm.

Jan 30 13 04:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
deletedxxx
Posts: 149
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


You're a model, so you probably should be recommending photographers that you have worked with, who you know can produce images consistantly and deliver on their promises. That is sort of the point of networking, proving your worth to others so when something comes up they recomend you and not some random photographer who has a nice folio but doesn't answer enquiries.
I suggest you recommend people you have worked with instead of random dudes and the success rate will rise.
Jan 30 13 04:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Christopher Hartman wrote:

hobbyists and they don't know what to do with paid offers

they are getting plenty of business and are not making the time to address your message.

they suck.

Yeah, just trying to help people with work that I appreciate.

Jan 30 13 04:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


landofy wrote:
You're a model, so you probably should be recommending photographers that you have worked with, who you know can produce images consistantly and deliver on their promises. That is sort of the point of networking, proving your worth to others so when something comes up they recomend you and not some random photographer who has a nice folio but doesn't answer enquiries.
I suggest you recommend people you have worked with instead of random dudes and the success rate will rise.

Well said, thank you.

Jan 30 13 04:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


-The Dave- wrote:

Giving referrals is awesome if that is what she means.

Yes that is what

Jan 30 13 04:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


-The Dave- wrote:

Giving referrals is awesome if that is what she means.

Yes that is what I meant. I am not getting paid for it, just being nice.

Jan 30 13 04:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,338
Tempe, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:
I would consider myself somewhat of a scout. Sometimes when companies or people that I know need a photographer I help out by finding one for them. When I do find the one, especially the ones I  really admire their work and would probably want to shoot with myself, some are very ignorant or just ignore. I am always polite and mention how much I love their work when I send out a message, email or call. Furthermore I mention that it is a paid project etc. I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

GIVING REFERRALS IS WHAT I MEAN, PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME.

What I am reading into what you wrote here probably appears to the photographers that you may be contacting as Spam or a Scam.  :-(

It's probably, "Hi, I am trying to set you up with someone that needs a photographer," and goes on from there.  Most out here are skeptical about these types of Emails.

It also appears that so many photographers out here are really upset with the world!  :-)  Don't take it personally!

Keep smiling!

Kindest regards,
Edward

Jan 30 13 04:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
varton
Posts: 2,162
New York, New York, US


In my case, I welcome referrals on  unpaid basis. I get 90% of my business from referrals, those are either models , MUAs, or happy clients. I always return the favor when possible. Most good paying jobs get passed from ear to mouth. Networking with people is great.
Jan 30 13 04:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


middle man = SPAM/SCAM

how about asking the referral to contact directly and you step out of the "picture"
Jan 30 13 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


EdwardKristopher wrote:

What I am reading into what you wrote here probably appears to the photographers that you may be contacting as Spam or a Scam.  :-(

It's probably, "Hi, I am trying to set you up with someone that needs a photographer," and goes on from there.  Most out here are skeptical about these types of Emails.

It also appears that so many photographers out here are really upset with the world!  :-)  Don't take it personally!

Keep smiling!

Kindest regards,
Edward

Thank you, I won't take it personal anymore (:

Jan 30 13 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Hero Foto wrote:
middle man = SPAM/SCAM

how about asking the referral to contact directly and you step out of the "picture"

How about I am just being nice referring someone's work that I appreciate.

Jan 30 13 04:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 3,340
State College, Pennsylvania, US


Me-L wrote:

salvatori. wrote:

Me-L wrote:
Yes and no I do not scout on Modelmayhem

If you aren't running into the problem here on MM, maybe go to the source where you actually DO have the problem, and ask there.

And I know others have said this.. For myself, if a person inquires about working with me on the behalf on someone else, I ignore/delete/move on. My assumption is that the 'model' isn't mature enough to contact me herself, or that her 'manager' is going to try to somehow charge me for their 'expertise,' what that would be, I have no idea... [/qu

OH gosh face palm.

I really didn't see anything in my reply that deserved your reaction. So I have changed my mind. I wouldn't ignore your requests for information based on you being a middleman, I would ignore it because of your smart-ass, know-it-all attitude. As you are a whopping 18 years old and seem to know it all, why not apply to be president of Mensa?

(By the way, NONE of this was sarcasm. It was me being tired of children playing grown-up).

Jan 30 13 04:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,713
Salinas, California, US


Me-L wrote:
Sometimes when companies or people that I know need a photographer I help out by finding one for them.

That is very nice of you.  Referrals can be greatly appreciated by many of us.  However ....

Me-L wrote:
When I do find the one, especially the ones I  really admire their work and would probably want to shoot with myself, some are very ignorant or just ignore. I am always polite and mention how much I love their work when I send out a message, email or call.

The problem is this ... if these are referrals given to photographers you have NOT worked with, it could backfire on you.  I mean I love referrals as much as any photographer who is for real on this website.  However the cynical thought is that since you have not actually worked with that photographer, what is the experience for the client or model your referred turns out to be a very terrible experience?  I love to network, but I will not refer anyone on here unless I have confidence that they actually exist.  There is a risk of FAKE profiles on here. And even in cases where you've actually met and worked with the person you're referring, they might not give the same great service or images they seemed to provide for you.    That is why I'm saying be careful.  Best wishes to you!  smile

Jan 30 13 04:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


salvatori. wrote:

Me-L wrote:

salvatori. wrote:

Me-L wrote:
Yes and no I do not scout on Modelmayhem

If you aren't running into the problem here on MM, maybe go to the source where you actually DO have the problem, and ask there.

And I know others have said this.. For myself, if a person inquires about working with me on the behalf on someone else, I ignore/delete/move on. My assumption is that the 'model' isn't mature enough to contact me herself, or that her 'manager' is going to try to somehow charge me for their 'expertise,' what that would be, I have no idea... [/qu

OH gosh face palm.

I really didn't see anything in my reply that deserved your reaction. So I have changed my mind. I wouldn't ignore your requests for information based on you being a middleman, I would ignore it because of your smart-ass, know-it-all attitude. As you are a whopping 18 years old and seem to know it all, why not apply to be president of Mensa?

(By the way, NONE of this was sarcasm. It was me being tired of children playing grown-up).

You asked me to go ask the source when these people are obviously mean. I do not think I know it all. If I did I would not be asking the question. Have a good night (:

Jan 30 13 04:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:

How about I am just being nice referring someone's work that I appreciate.

can we say attitude?

I get what you're stating ... but seriously, you ARE looking for that attagirl pat on the back ...

I HATE SPAM/SCAMS ...

Again, JUST ASK THE REFERRAL TO CONTACT US DIRECTLY, HOW HARD IS THAT?

Jan 30 13 04:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:

The Sound of Hands to the forehead slap..is quite loud. Maybe OP can be brig'd for outing herself? lol

You do realize that you can google top photographers for a certain genre in an area and you can find people that way. I asked on modelmayhem because there are photographers who can answer the question.

Jan 30 13 04:44 pm  Link  Quote 
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