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first12
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Hero Foto wrote:

can we say attitude?

I get what you're stating ... but seriously, you ARE looking for that attagirl pat on the back ...

I HATE SPAM/SCAMS ...

Again, JUST ASK THE REFERRAL TO CONTACT US DIRECTLY, HOW HARD IS THAT?

Lol there is no attitude. No i am not looking for a pat in the back. IT'S NOT HARD, BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE ASK IF I TALK TO THE PERSON FOR THEM.

Jan 30 13 04:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


ME_ wrote:

I think you are saying that if you know someone who needs a photographer, you sometimes find one who might be good for the job and then contact him and tell them you are passing along some information on a possible job opportunity.

What would be a lot better, if you are truly just helping out companies or people you know, is to tell them that you have found a photographer who might fulfill their needs and provide them with that photographer's contact info. That is generally how referrals work. Give the info to the person who needs the service performed; do not contact the service provider and tell them, "Hey, total stranger, here's a job I think you'd be interested in."

Imagine if your friend needed a obstetrician. Would you contact a good OB who you thought would be a great doctor and tell him to call your friend because your friend was looking for someone just like him, and also, you'd be glad to have him be your OB if you were having a baby?

Yes that is exactly what I do.  I totally understand what you mean. Thank you for a civil response.

Jan 30 13 04:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7,556
Monterey, California, US


Me-L wrote:

Lol there is no attitude. No i am not looking for a pat in the back. IT'S NOT HARD, BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE ASK IF I TALK TO THE PERSON FOR THEM.

Isn't it better if they contact the photographer themselves?

Jan 30 13 04:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:

Lol there is no attitude. No i am not looking for a pat in the back. IT'S NOT HARD, BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE ASK IF I TALK TO THE PERSON FOR THEM.

WHY is it so hard for you to just have them contact us directly?

Jan 30 13 04:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Julian W I L D E
Posts: 1,769
Los Angeles, California, US


Real Photographers have agents and contacts that they use on a regular basis.  These are the people they're comfortable with and know that they will do legitmate business with on a regular basis.  Someone coming at them from "left field," well, it FEELS like someone coming at them from "left field." 

Does that make sense?

Best wishes,

-JULIAN
Jan 30 13 04:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kyle T Edwards
Posts: 409
St Catharines, Ontario, Canada


Here's a thought.  When recommending a photographer, have the person you're looking for, contact the photographer directly, but use your name as a reference.  That way, they will be initiating business directly, but there will also be the referral to you in there.  "I hope you don't mind. Mel suggested you, and after seeing some of the work you did with her, I agree with her recommendation.  I was hoping we could do business..."

Of course, that still puts your name on the line, so as always, you have to be careful about who you let drop your name.  But at least it takes you out as a direct middle man.
Jan 30 13 05:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Julian  W I L D E wrote:
Real Photographers have agents and contacts that they use on a regular basis.  These are the people they're comfortable with and know that they will do legitmate business with on a regular basis.  Someone coming at them from "left field," well, it FEELS like someone coming at them from "left field." 

Does that make sense?

Best wishes,

-JULIAN [/quote

Yes it makes sense.
Jan 30 13 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Kyle T Edwards wrote:
Here's a thought.  When recommending a photographer, have the person you're looking for, contact the photographer directly, but use your name as a reference.  That way, they will be initiating business directly, but there will also be the referral to you in there.  "I hope you don't mind. Mel suggested you, and after seeing some of the work you did with her, I agree with her recommendation.  I was hoping we could do business..."

Of course, that still puts your name on the line, so as always, you have to be careful about who you let drop your name.  But at least it takes you out as a direct middle man.

Yes that makes sense. I am not looking to get any credit or have my name mentioned. I was just wondering why some photographers can be not so nice when someone genuinely appreciates their work. I try to practice acts of kindness as much as I can.

Jan 30 13 05:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
-Koa-
Posts: 5,250
Castaner, Puerto Rico, US


You all need to stop ripping her apart just to prove how "smart" you all are. She was simply trying to be nice and pro-active.

And the first person who say's I'm trying to be a "White Knight" can kiss my ass.

Common sense folks, really, stop jumping all over her ass. I'm sure you all made dumb ass mistakes in your life as well.

Me-L
To answer your question, just look at many of the responders on this thread and you have your answer.

-Koa-
www.borikenwarrior@aol.com
www.facebook.com/borikenwarriorstudiosmodels
Jan 30 13 05:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,683
Salinas, California, US


Me-L wrote:

Yes that makes sense. I am not looking to get any credit or have my name mentioned. I was just wondering why some photographers can be not so nice when someone genuinely appreciates their work. I try to practice acts of kindness as much as I can.

I greatly appreciate acts of kindness.  smile    It's good to be 'old school' as they say, but also remember that on the Internet, things might not be as they seem.  It took a Notre Dame football star falling for an imaginary "girlfriend" whom he only spoke with by phone ... but was fooled by what is called "catfishing." 

We had a very public event on the forums here when a imaginary "model" was created by a photographer making a FAKE profile.  We are talking about a profile that was given gatekeeper privileges on the forum!   I was heartbroken when that imaginary model had an imaginary death to cancer!  In fact, I cried!  I'm sure that the Admin for this site were embarrassed as well. 

So the moral of the story is to not believe someone is actually for real until you've done some homework to verify they exist!  I have some models and photographers on here whom I have actually spoken with by phone, and even better, have met and shot with in person.  Until I get to have such contact that I am sure they are really all they say they are, I don't put much faith on anything off the web.  I'm so cynical that I don't believe anyone here is for real until we meet!  lol

Jan 30 13 05:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 41,683
Salinas, California, US


-Koa- wrote:
You all need to stop ripping her apart just to prove how "smart" you all are. She was simply trying to be nice and pro-active.

And the first person who say's I'm trying to be a "White Knight" can kiss my ass.

Common sense folks, really, stop jumping all over her ass. I'm sure you all made dumb ass mistakes in your life as well.

-Koa-
www.borikenwarrior@aol.com
www.facebook.com/borikenwarriorstudiosmodels

Hey Koa!  I agree with you!

Jan 30 13 05:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:

Hey Koa!  I agree with you!

What you both wrote makes a lot of sense. I was asking a sincere question and I end up getting attacked.

Jan 30 13 05:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,076
Catskill, New York, US


Lars R Peterson wrote:
I can't judge based on what you said, or how you said it... because you didn't tell us,...

But I know, personally, if I received a message from a "middle-man"... my first instinct would be to think it was probably spam, or a scam. When a real project comes along, usually the people who are actually involved will contact me.

This exactly. Just like when head hunters call me about IT work. It's always some kind of crap that never materializes after I provide them tons of personal data.

If someone wants me to work for them, they can call me directly

Jan 30 13 05:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:

What you both wrote makes a lot of sense. I was asking a sincere question and I end up getting attacked.

it's because you ARE scouting  ... go back and re-read your responses and OP ...

been there done that ... don't have a t-shirt ...

just ask the referrals to contact us directly ... SIMPLE AS THAT ...

IF NOT, YOU ARE FISHING/SCOUTING ... PERIOD, CUT AND DRY ...

Jan 30 13 05:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:

This exactly. Just like when head hunters call me about IT work. It's always some kind of crap that never materializes after I provide them tons of personal data.

If someone wants me to work for them, they can call me directly

I honestly don't see what is wrong with me saying " hey so and so is looking for someone who shoots your style of work. If you are interested here is their contact info" It's called being nice, maybe the world would be a better place if people would be nice and help each other out.

Jan 30 13 05:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:

I honestly don't see what is wrong with me saying " hey so and so is looking for someone who shoots your style of work. If you are interested here is their contact info" It's called being nice, maybe the world would be a better place if people would be nice and help each other out.

THIS is scouting ... thanks, but no thanks ...

Jan 30 13 05:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Hero Foto wrote:

it's because you ARE scouting  ... go back and re-read your responses and OP ...

been there done that ... don't have a t-shirt ...

just ask the referrals to contact us directly ... SIMPLE AS THAT ...

IF NOT, YOU ARE FISHING/SCOUTING ... PERIOD, CUT AND DRY ...

I honestly don't know why you are taking this so seriously. You have the right to disagree, but i think you're taking it a little too far. You made your point already.

Jan 30 13 05:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:

I honestly don't see what is wrong with me saying " hey so and so is looking for someone who shoots your style of work. If you are interested here is their contact info" It's called being nice, maybe the world would be a better place if people would be nice and help each other out.

you see, you CANNOT step out without getting kudos ... you ARE scouting ... looking for that attagirl pat on the back ...

HAVE THEM CONTACT US DIRECTLY ... GET IT ... ????

Jan 30 13 05:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Hero Foto wrote:

you see, you CANNOT step out without getting kudos ... you ARE scouting ... looking for that attagirl pat on the back ...

HAVE THEM CONTACT US DIRECTLY ... GET IT ... ????

\

It's called being nice. I have had people help me out so I help others as well. I am done now.

Jan 30 13 05:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T-D-L
Posts: 9,981
Los Angeles, California, US


Me-L wrote:
I would consider myself somewhat of a scout. Sometimes when companies or people that I know need a photographer I help out by finding one for them. When I do find the one, especially the ones I  really admire their work and would probably want to shoot with myself,some are very ignorant or just ignore. I am always polite and mention how much I love their work when I send out a message, email or call. Furthermore I mention that it is a paid project etc. I am just a middleman and this has happened a few times and I would like to know why some people are like that? I am hoping that someone here can give me some insight on this topic.

GIVING REFERRALS IS WHAT I MEAN, PLEASE DON'T ATTACK ME.

This part raised a red flag for me.  Are you implying that in order to get these referrals you're suggesting they shoot with you first?  Not sure what shooting with you has to do with referring work to a 3rd party...

Jan 30 13 05:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


T-D-L wrote:

This part raised a red flag for me.  Are you implying that in order to get these referrals you're suggesting they shoot with you first?  Not sure what shooting with you has to do with referring work to a 3rd party...

I am saying that I like their work that much to point where I would probably shoot with them. Meaning I would not recommend some I would not work with.

Jan 30 13 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:
blah, blah blah ...  I am done now.

ditto

you ARE scouting ...

Jan 30 13 06:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Hero Foto wrote:

ditto

you ARE scouting ...

Thanks for kindly letting me know (: Have a good night. I wish you all the best in this new year !!

Jan 30 13 06:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:

Thanks for kindly letting me know (: Have a good night. I wish you all the best in this new year !!

thanks ... I'm booked until June - PAID ... w/o the help of a scout ... thanks anyways

Jan 30 13 06:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Hero Foto wrote:

thanks ... I'm booked until June - PAID ... w/o the help of a scout ... thanks anyways

you're welcome (:

Jan 30 13 06:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravo Magic Images
Posts: 765
Temple City, California, US


ms-photo wrote:
I will help you decipher photographers as soon as someone else deciphers what you just wrote.

I will take a crack at Deciphering the Model Code for you. First off you have to think in Fat Alberts Mind Frame and follow my lead.

In Fat Alberts terms she said "I bah wanna gettaba a Foto-A-grapheraba ba thatababa isa ba ba opena baba to shoota baba somea Tfa Babab for ababa Freeababa."  i think that is what she meant.

Jan 30 13 06:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotografica Gregor
Posts: 3,974
Alexandria, Virginia, US


my insight would be:

appreciate the hell out of this when it happens -

consider it a sort of "natural selection" -

if they can't or won't  communicate  you don't want to be recommending them to someone.....

whenever someone tells me there is money and it's not a total PITA they're pitching I'm going to communicate -

btw it's not a total PITA you're pitching is it?
Jan 30 13 06:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Fotografica Gregor wrote:
my insight would be:

appreciate the hell out of this when it happens -

consider it a sort of "natural selection" -

if they can't or won't  communicate  you don't want to be recommending them to someone.....

whenever someone tells me there is money and it's not a total PITA they're pitching I'm going to communicate -

btw it's not a total PITA you're pitching is it?

No it's legit gigs. I don't talk the actual business details. I just let the photographer know about the project and give them the contact info if they are interested.

Jan 30 13 06:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jean Renard Photography
Posts: 1,986
Los Angeles, California, US


Me-L wrote:

No it's legit gigs. I don't talk the actual business details. I just let the photographer know about the project and give them the contact info if they are interested.

When you are talking money and real work, the client or their official reps need to contact the photographer.  Same with all talent being assembled for a shoot.  Amateurs can track down random potential clients, pros will not.  Your best bet is to simply give a link to the folks that you know are looking for shots or whatever and let them make the contact. That makes it simple and clean.

Jan 30 13 07:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Me-L
Posts: 108
New York, New York, US


Jean Renard Photography wrote:

Me-L wrote:
No it's legit gigs. I don't talk the actual business details. I just let the photographer know about the project and give them the contact info if they are interested.

When you are talking money and real work, the client or their official reps need to contact the photographer.  Same with all talent being assembled for a shoot.  Amateurs can track down random potential clients, pros will not.  Your best bet is to simply give a link to the folks that you know are looking for shots or whatever and let them make the contact. That makes it simple and clean. [/quo

That makes sense. Thanks for the advice.

Jan 30 13 07:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EdwardKristopher
Posts: 3,338
Tempe, Arizona, US


Me-L wrote:

Thank you, I won't take it personal anymore (:

:-)

Jan 30 13 08:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan L Duncan
Posts: 207
Jacksonville, Florida, US


Lars R Peterson wrote:
I can't judge based on what you said, or how you said it... because you didn't tell us,...

But I know, personally, if I received a message from a "middle-man"... my first instinct would be to think it was probably spam, or a scam. When a real project comes along, usually the people who are actually involved will contact me.

This is what I would think too. Maybe instead you can email the links of the profiles to the people who are looking for photographers and have them contact the photographers themselves.

Jan 31 13 07:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T-D-L
Posts: 9,981
Los Angeles, California, US


Me-L wrote:

I am saying that I like their work that much to point where I would probably shoot with them. Meaning I would not recommend some I would not work with.

I see, well in that case it's best to have the potential client contact the photographer directly.  I hate going through a middle-man about details, and even a simple "Hey, I love your work I have a friend who would love to pay you!" is more trouble than a client emailing directly and saying "Hey, a model friend of ours (insert name here) recommended you for a potential project we have coming up.  We'd love to discuss (x,y,z) with you if you're interested!"

Jan 31 13 07:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 6,103
New York, New York, US


Well this thread is a good reminder as to why it's called "Model Mayhem"....Good luck to you! Just remember that this is all shits and giggles at the end of the day...
Jan 31 13 07:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Hunter Wald
Posts: 1,204
Audubon, Pennsylvania, US


I get referrals all the time in my full time business.  I usually ask who referred me when I am told that I was contacted due to a referral.  I almost never recognize the name of the referring person and rarely find the referring person in my client list.  Often it is a real estate agent or lawyer that worked with one of my clients that passed my name along.  So, relative to the OP, I believe I get many middle man referrals.  Occasionally a client will tell me that he/she has passed my name along.  I don't hold my breath waiting for the call.   If a client gave me someone else's number, I won't call it.  It isn't up to me to make initial contact and I would foresee that kind of thing going bad quickly.    But I am always grateful for referrals.
Jan 31 13 08:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Hunter Wald
Posts: 1,204
Audubon, Pennsylvania, US


Me-L wrote:
Yes that makes sense. I am not looking to get any credit or have my name mentioned. I was just wondering why some photographers can be not so nice when someone genuinely appreciates their work. I try to practice acts of kindness as much as I can.

Because some people are just not nice.  It isn't relative to any profession.  Though some professions have more than their fair share of ego manics and generally mean people.

Jan 31 13 09:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave phoenix
Posts: 1,256
Phoenix, Arizona, US


if a stranger messaged me and said they knew someone who was looking to hire a photographer, i would think, "who is this person and why are they contacting me on behalf of someone else? why doesn't the client just message me? or maybe this person wants a cut of the money as a finder's fee or something?"

it just seems weird.
Jan 31 13 09:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave phoenix
Posts: 1,256
Phoenix, Arizona, US


in your specific case, just because YOU like the photographer's work, doesn't mean the CLIENT is going to like it... so replying to your message is even less likely to result in an actual paying job than a direct email from a person who actually has the cash and needs a photographer.
Jan 31 13 09:27 pm  Link  Quote 
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