I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.
We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?
I would generally agree with your observation. I do wonder however, if it's not partially related to who posts and who doesn't. I think that photographers post a lot more often than models anyway, so that may have something to do with it too.
Photographers, especially professional photographers are putting themselves in a situation of critic and rejection every time they show their work. Most have done this for a longer time than models so the amount of rejection becomes heavy in the end.
I still to this day try to make every model at castings feel that I do appreciate them regardless if I book them.
Because many photographers on here aren't shooting for anything other than themselves. They are shooting for personal enjoyment. So, saying that they "are not right for..." is the equivalent of saying, "YOU are no good. I don't want you...", to them.
The motivation for them is personal so the rejection is also taken personally.
Now, combine that with the fact that Creatives are notoriously self-conscious divas with an extreme inferiority complex and you've got, well, MM lol.
I'm sure you could take that same overly sensitive photographer and send them on an interview for an office job and they wouldn't blink an eye if they were told their qualifications didn't match the position.
Amanda Ashley Harris wrote: I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.
We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?
You're also coming from an agency background, where rejection is kind of ingrained as part of the professional process.
Internet models without that background/indoctrination I would expect to be much more sensitive.
I wouldn't say it's quite so lop-sided. 60/40 if it's imbalanced at all.
What I would note, though, is that far more people seem to side with models when models rant than with photographers. In light of that, it might come across as if more photographers bitch and complain as opposed to having legitimate gripes.
Well obviously the ones who don't care don't post, so its not like we can really use it as a gauge for anything (model or photographer)
Professional photographers usually have relationships with multiple modeling agencies and don't come to MM to find models much so they are not going to even be asking.
I put by book out there all the time, clients may or may not like it or my style. That is fine, but that attitude doesn't come overnight. Now many new photographers are a bit shocked by rejections, and certainly the non professional ones are unaccustomed to it. Those are also the ones that are approaching models on MM, so its a self fulfilling prophecy.
Amanda Ashley Harris wrote: I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.
I honestly don't think photographers are any more or less butt-hurt than models. There are probably just more of us percentage'wise who bitch about it. They also disproportionally sit in front of their computers doing mass amounts of editing (among other things) than a model would & since the internet is so connect'able, it offers a nice audience to complain to.
Think about it. If you go to a restaurant & get shitty service, a person is more likely to tell 10 of their friends about it than if they got stellar service.
Lotta grown men whining like little babies because the big bad model did not pay attention to them lol
it's not FAIR ! it's not POLITE ! it's not good BUSINESS!
(yet as far as I can tell there are a lot more models getting paid here than there are photographers lol)
as far as I am concerned, you may respond to my casting or my contact - or not -
I probably won't notice either way -
I put out a casting or a "feeler" contact on occasion, and move on - I get more interest than I know what to do with, and I'm booked through March....
Oh - and I do not respond to models who answer my castings but do not fit the requirements or those who cold contact me, when I am not interested in working with them -
I think models might be reluctant to complain hence the lopsidedness of it all. Usually when a photographer complains there is a lot of "what a bitch" and "you're so great". However, when a model complains she is reminded of all the things that are wrong with her. I agree that there are more photographers on the forums than models too so that explains the above trends in responding.
Amanda Ashley Harris wrote: We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves.
What's this "we" shit?
I've run into plenty of models who got crazy butthurt when told they weren't right for the look. I did a casting call for a super-fit gymrat look with minimal to no tatts or piercings and got one pasty, flabby girl so heavily pierced she couldn't make it through an airport if her life depended on it. She kept hounding me so long about my being a discriminating male pig that I had to block her. Another respondent to that gymrat casting was 5'4" 250. She merely called me a racist because I was rejecting her because she was black. I've been called a potential rapist by a couple of models because I wasn't allowing escorts for models 18 and older.
I have no doubt that there are plenty of irrational, easily wounded photographers out there. There's no shortage of irrational, easily wounded models out there, too.
John Allan made a very good point. You (OP) are describing the situation from the point of view of an agency model, for whom occasional rejection is seen as a fact of professional life. And MM isn't always -- or even often -- a professional environment.
Amanda Ashley Harris wrote: I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.
We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?
You should read some of the angry posts they put out on these threads as well...! :-)
I've run into plenty of models who got crazy butthurt when told they weren't right for the look. I did a casting call for a super-fit gymrat look with minimal to no tatts or piercings and got one pasty, flabby girl so heavily pierced she couldn't make it through an airport if her life depended on it. She kept hounding me so long about my being a discriminating male pig that I had to block her. Another respondent to that gymrat casting was 5'4" 250. She merely called me a racist because I was rejecting her because she was black. I've been called a potential rapist by a couple of models because I wasn't allowing escorts for models 18 and older.
I have no doubt that there are plenty of irrational, easily wounded photographers out there. There's no shortage of irrational, easily wounded models out there, too.
John Allan made a very good point. You (OP) are describing the situation from the point of view of an agency model, for whom occasional rejection is seen as a fact of professional life. And MM isn't always -- or even often -- a professional environment.
Fotografica Gregor wrote: Lotta grown men whining like little babies because the big bad model did not pay attention to them lol
it's not FAIR ! it's not POLITE ! it's not good BUSINESS!
(yet as far as I can tell there are a lot more models getting paid here than there are photographers lol)
as far as I am concerned, you may respond to my casting or my contact - or not -
I probably won't notice either way -
I put out a casting or a "feeler" contact on occasion, and move on - I get more interest than I know what to do with, and I'm booked through March....
Oh - and I do not respond to models who answer my castings but do not fit the requirements or those who cold contact me, when I am not interested in working with them -
life is short, and time's expensive.....
You're just a little sweetie pie aren't you!
OP - it's also self-selecting in that those that feel rejected and are not professional enough to cope with it internally find the need to express their displeasure in more public ways.
They are probably the very small tip of the photography iceberg, whilst the overwhelming majority of photographers (and models too) are just getting on with it and have no time for posting silly rants in an internet forum.
Jojo West
Posts: 929
Washington, District of Columbia, US
liddellphoto wrote: The photographers are usually doing the ones approaching so they are the ones that will usually be rejected.
I'm not sure I agree with that. I approach a lot of photographers and many times I don't fit what they're looking for. I just move on, lol. Life is too short and there are too many other people on MM for me to get buttsore because someone said no.
I agree with the OP, perhaps models are just more prepared and used to not always fitting the specific look the photographer or designer is seeking, so we hope for the best and prepare for the worst. I also feel like a lot of the photographers that get mad just have big egos and don't know what to do when someone doesn't fawn over them.
Amanda Ashley Harris wrote: I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.
We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?
People complain if we're "sensitive," and people complain if we're "insensitive." You just can't win.
I don't think its a sensitivity issue. I think the way it works is photographer's have a little more lee way to complain. If a model complains, she is seen as a diva, and she loses business. If a photographer complains, it isn't quite seen like that.
Regardless, I do admit I get a little butthurt when I'm rejected for a casting. Never have been vocal about it, but there's been moments where it's stung.
Samantha Emme wrote: Regardless, I do admit I get a little butthurt when I'm rejected for a casting. Never have been vocal about it, but there's been moments where it's stung.
A totally honest response.
Rejections do sting, but reacting badly just compounds the problem. What I like to do when I'm in a petulant mood after a rejection is to type out the nastiest possible reply -- really get that shit off my chest -- then count to ten and then delete it. Replace it with "Thank you for the courtesy of your honesty and good luck with your modeling." Send that.
That kind of reply is very disarming. I usually get a kindly reply off of that. Even struck up a few friendships that way.
But for gawdsake, be sure to delete, not send, that nasty venting reply.
Rejections do sting, but reacting badly just compounds the problem. What I like to do when I'm in a petulant mood after a rejection is to type out the nastiest possible reply -- really get that shit off my chest -- then count to ten and then delete it. Replace it with "Thank you for the courtesy of your honesty and good luck with your modeling." Send that.
That kid of reply is very disarming. I usually get a kindly reply off of that. Even struck up a few friendships that way.
But for gawdsake, be sure to delete, not send, that nasty venting reply.
LOL I now imagine someone out there doing that and accidentally clicking send. What I do when those things sting is I just go and network out more, and work with other photographers I like. The good images and good vibes is totally worth the butthurt on rejections.
Amanda Ashley Harris wrote: I have noticed a lot lately that the more Model Mayhem I encounter, the more these photographers seem to be more sensitive to rejection than models are. The angry posts feel like 90/10 ratio of photographers bashing models based on some sort of rejection than the opposite.
We understand that we are not right for every shoot and realize our weaknesses probably as much or more than our strengths so we play to them in order to sell ourselves. I have seen the concepts done that the photographers said I wasn't right for and acknowledged that they definitely made the right decision and I wasn't what they needed. Why do photographers have a harder time realizing they aren't always the right choice?
| 
| 
| edu