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Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,860
Portland, Oregon, US


Jan 31 13 01:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
37photog
Posts: 692
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Quantitative vs Qualitative.

Quantitative:  More people bought Ipads in 4Q 2012 than 4Q 2011.

Qualitative: Among people who purchased tablets the percentage of people who chose the Ipad shrunk in 4Q 2012 vs 4Q 2011.
Jan 31 13 01:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Instinct Images
Posts: 22,465
San Diego, California, US


In other news, Android surged from 53% to 70% of smartphone sales in the last year. Apple slipped to 19%.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/28/androi … s-analyst/
Jan 31 13 02:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Let There Be Light
Posts: 7,657
Los Angeles, California, US


37photog wrote:
Quantitative vs Qualitative.

Quantitative:  More people bought Ipads in 4Q 2012 than 4Q 2011.

Qualitative: Among people who purchased tablets the percentage of people who chose the Ipad shrunk in 4Q 2012 vs 4Q 2011.

Those are both quantitative. Nothing wrong with with having a shrinking share of a growing market when you sell more of your product than ever before.

Jan 31 13 02:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
37photog
Posts: 692
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Let There Be Light wrote:
Those are both quantitative. Nothing wrong with with having a shrinking share of a growing market when you sell more of your product than ever before.

??? ummmm, yeah, ok :-/

Jan 31 13 03:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
What Fun Productions
Posts: 20,144
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Instinct Images wrote:
In other news, Android surged from 53% to 70% of smartphone sales in the last year. Apple slipped to 19%.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/01/28/androi … s-analyst/

I've read Google makes very little money from Android.

Jan 31 13 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Instinct Images
Posts: 22,465
San Diego, California, US


What Fun Productions wrote:

I've read Google makes very little money from Android.

Why Google doesn't care about how much money they've made from Android

Imagine how what Apple's share would be without Android...

Jan 31 13 04:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Let There Be Light
Posts: 7,657
Los Angeles, California, US


37photog wrote:

??? ummmm, yeah, ok :-/

Here's the way it works: in 2010 Apple sold 15 million iPads for the year and had a 75% share of the tablet market.  In just the fourth quarter of 2012 Apple sold almost 23 million iPads, more than ever before and up 48% from the same period in 2011 yet their market share dropped to 43.6%. Which result would you rather have?

Jan 31 13 06:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Instinct Images
Posts: 22,465
San Diego, California, US


Let There Be Light wrote:

Here's the way it works: in 2010 Apple sold 15 million iPads for the year and had a 75% share of the tablet market.  In just the fourth quarter of 2012 Apple sold almost 23 million iPads, more than ever before and up 48% from the same period in 2011 yet their market share dropped to 43.6%. Which result would you rather have?

That depends on what my profit margin is on each. If it's the same then obviously I'd rather have the higher sales but often with competition comes pressure on margins.

Of course Apple's profit margin hasn't exactly suffered the last few years!

Jan 31 13 06:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Peter Claver
Posts: 26,657
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


37photog wrote:

??? ummmm, yeah, ok :-/

Why would that be a problem?

The time to be worried is if your market share is shrinking because you're selling fewer devices.  If your sales are still increasing but the total number of buyers is growing faster then you're still making out better than before.  Your competitors just happen to also be selling.  Market share is just bragging rights.. what matters is revenues and profits.  I mean.. certainly there's a point where market share (and the press that goes along with it) can become a positive feedback loop and increase revenues.. but it's not strictly necessary.  Nor is it true that he with the highest market share also makes the most money.

Would apple like to have a higher market share? Sure.. of course.  But they can continue to make money hand over fist so long as their sales/revenues/profits increase regardless of what percentage of the market they own.

Jan 31 13 06:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R A V E N D R I V E
Posts: 15,867
New York, New York, US


you guys make this about "Iphone and Android", but let me unfog the smoke and mirrors for you:

Apple and Samsung control 92% of the smartphone market (1). Tablets included. They also supply each other parts, production lines, and more

Usually Department of Justice and the European Commission would step in and recognize and break up a clear monopoly, but they are powerless since Apple and Samsung sue each other over 2 week's pay (2)(3), dragging largely baseless claims through the courts that take just long enough to secure an unreversible monopoly

read between the lines.




(1) Samsung android has 70%, Apple has 22%
(2) 2 billion dollar patent infringement lawsuit that BOTH sides appealed, who does that?
(3) Apple made 54 billion in pure profit last year. More than 1 billion a week. Samsung is near that level of weekly earnings too.


feel free to pick apart the trivia, but the facts still stand. this is not really a contest
Jan 31 13 06:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
37photog
Posts: 692
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


It's all a big pie, and corporations vie to get the largest chunk of it that they can.  Verizon cares about two things, how much they made, and what portion of the cell phone market they own. Target cares about two things, how much they made, and how much they made compared to Walmart, Kohls, Kmart etc... 

It's the reason Nielson ratings rates TV in 2 categories "Ratings/Share". Ask anyone who's worked in sales "Share" is a huge grading component to a sales staff. Case in point, the Presidential Election brings in massive advertising dollars.  If a Salesperson for the local CBS affiliate says to his boss "Hey great news, I just brought in an extra $120,00 from the Mitt Romney campaign" that would not be considered good news if the ABC, NBC & Fox affiliate all brought in $200,00 in ad sales. It's not "Wow, extra money. Great!"
Feb 01 13 07:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,756
Buena Park, California, US


Let There Be Light wrote:
Those are both quantitative. Nothing wrong with with having a shrinking share of a growing market when you sell more of your product than ever before.
37photog wrote:
??? ummmm, yeah, ok :-/

He does make a good point.  There are price points to consider too.  Android I believe has more offering from free (with contract) to a few hundred dollars.

These generalized comparisons can be a bit misleading.  They should compare similar devices and then compare.

I'm sure Ford and GM outsell BMW and Mercedes.

and for a non-sequitor, I dropped my iPhone 5 last night on asphalt.  I was meeting up with some girl and oddly enough, the first and only other time I dropped my phone (on my concrete driveway) I was going to see her that night...so anyhow, two drops.  Banged up the metal "band" but still no damaged screen. big_smile

Feb 01 13 07:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TrianglePhoto
Posts: 569
Chicago, Illinois, US


Some things to consider:

1) How much did Apple make on the deal.
2) How much did Apple leave on the table.

If Apple's marketshare is shrinking but what it left on the table is the low margin, low end machines, then it isn't a problem (Apple is unlikely to ever cater to the $300 10" tablet crowd). However, if they are starting to lose the marketshare of higher margin items, that might be a problem.
Feb 01 13 07:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Peter Claver
Posts: 26,657
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


TrianglePhoto wrote:
Some things to consider:

1) How much did Apple make on the deal.
2) How much did Apple leave on the table.

If Apple's marketshare is shrinking but what it left on the table is the low margin, low end machines, then it isn't a problem (Apple is unlikely to ever cater to the $300 10" tablet crowd). However, if they are starting to lose the marketshare of higher margin items, that might be a problem.

They're almost certainly not losing marketshare of the high margin items (at least not to samsung).  The iPhones consistently outsell the top Galaxy devices.. and there doesn't seem to be any catching up in the near future.

Samsung is digging its feet into the smartphone market with a *wide* variety of low to medium priced devices (last I checked they had almost 30 different devices).  There's no doubt about it: Samsung is kicking ass in that market.

Apple is at a tipping point right now (or at least potentially... it's a little too early to tell).  While their earnings and unit sales are ever climbing, in their most recent quarter was unable to maintain their high margins (though their margins are still *way* higher than anyone else they did drop).  If that turns out to be a pattern (dropping or stagnant margins) then they may as well jump into the $300 phone market -- but only if they can keep to their design and engineering goals.  I can't see them ever making a "cheap" device.

Feb 01 13 07:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,756
Buena Park, California, US


Instinct Images wrote:

That depends on what my profit margin is on each. If it's the same then obviously I'd rather have the higher sales but often with competition comes pressure on margins.

Of course Apple's profit margin hasn't exactly suffered the last few years!

They are selling at the same price.  The margin is based on hardware costs and unless that competition is causing their hardware costs to go up...

Feb 01 13 07:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Peter Claver
Posts: 26,657
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Christopher Hartman wrote:

They are selling at the same price.  The margin is based on hardware costs and unless that competition is causing their hardware costs to go up...

It certainly can if consumer demand requires them to add features/functionality without increasing the retail price.

Feb 01 13 07:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 53,756
Buena Park, California, US


R A V E N D R I V E wrote:
you guys make this about "Iphone and Android", but let me unfog the smoke and mirrors for you:

Apple and Samsung control 92% of the smartphone market (1). Tablets included. They also supply each other parts, production lines, and more

Usually Department of Justice and the European Commission would step in and recognize and break up a clear monopoly, but they are powerless since Apple and Samsung sue each other over 2 week's pay (2)(3), dragging largely baseless claims through the courts that take just long enough to secure an unreversible monopoly

read between the lines.




(1) Samsung android has 70%, Apple has 22%
(2) 2 billion dollar patent infringement lawsuit that BOTH sides appealed, who does that?
(3) Apple made 54 billion in pure profit last year. More than 1 billion a week. Samsung is near that level of weekly earnings too.


feel free to pick apart the trivia, but the facts still stand. this is not really a contest

break what up?  They both make really nice products.  If you want to reduce their "control", ask someone like Sony to step up with some crazy proprietary stuff that is typical of Sony.  Or get Ericsson, Blackberry, and others to step up their game.

Feb 01 13 07:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,860
Portland, Oregon, US


This might be of interest to some...

Apple is biggest US phone seller for 1st time.
Feb 01 13 01:01 pm  Link  Quote 
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