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Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


How do most of the photogs on here handle confirming scheduled TF shoots, commercial shoots and meet ups with models (MUAHs and shoot staff)?

A little background to my question ....

I had an unfortunate situation today in which I missed a 1st meet up (I usually do 1st meet ups locally now) with a very nice model.

Our meet up was at Starbucks a few blocks from her home at 3:30.

I had called 2x this morning (9 and 10am) when I got into my office as I told her I would, but could only leave voice mails for her. Apparently she slept until noonish (sleep issues). She did send a txt at 12:30 and an email at 1pm confirming, which was courteous.

But by noon I was already back out of my office for another appointment. I did check my voice mail again at 2ish just in case, but nothing.

Turns out the poor gal had in fact gone to the meet up and waited for about 30 minutes!

The txt confirmation idea sort of flew by me as I only txt my teens. Never use txting for business. And my business phone does not even accept txts.

I check email when I'm in my office, unless I know there are critical deadlines and such then I haul around a small laptop.

I do have a personal cell that isn't generally given out so I use the business line for business and I check my messages pretty regularly.

So, how best to handle this in the future?

Should I place a preferred confirmation policy (?) on my MM profile, or will that look condescending?

Or, should I just chock this up to experience unless it happens again?
Jan 31 13 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,482
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
How do most of the photogs on here handle confirming scheduled TF shoots, commercial shoots and meet ups with models (MUAHs and shoot staff)?

A little background to my question ....

I had an unfortunate situation today in which I missed a 1st meet up (I usually do 1st meet ups locally now) with a very nice model.

Our meet up was at Starbucks a few blocks from her home at 3:30.

I had called 2x this morning (9 and 10am) when I got into my office as I told her I would, but could only leave voice mails for her. Apparently she slept until noonish (sleep issues). She did send a txt at 12:30 and an email at 1pm confirming, which was courteous.

But by noon I was already back out of my office for another appointment. I did check my voice mail again at 2ish just in case, but nothing.

Turns out the poor gal had in fact gone to the meet up and waited for about 30 minutes!

The txt confirmation idea sort of flew by me as I only txt my teens. Never use txting for business. And my business phone does not even accept txts.

I check email when I'm in my office, unless I know there are critical deadlines and such then I haul around a small laptop.

I do have a personal cell that isn't generally given out so I use the business line for business and I check my messages pretty regularly.

So, how best to handle this in the future?

Should I place a preferred confirmation policy (?) on my MM profile, or will that look condescending?

Or, should I just chock this up to experience unless it happens again?

Are you talking about a meeting prior to a shooting?

Jan 31 13 07:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Images by MR wrote:

Are you talking about a meeting prior to a shooting?

Yes sorry. Or just for a pre-shoot meet and greet coffee.

Jan 31 13 07:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,788
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


What does a meet up accomplish that a simple phone call can't?
Jan 31 13 07:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Images by MR wrote:
Are you talking about a meeting prior to a shooting?

yes.

Jan 31 13 07:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DAN CRUIKSHANK
Posts: 1,786
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


I did a pre-shoot meeting at starbucks once, we met, it was fine... and then never shot lol.

For my location shoots I provide transportation, so I pick up the model wherever they want. We communicate via text. If they are running late they sometimes call me. I'm never late. If they are late it's no big deal, I sit in my car and listen to music smile
Jan 31 13 07:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


NicoleNudes wrote:
What does a meet up accomplish that a simple phone call can't?

Seems to be the thing to do nowadays. Besides nice to know who I might be shooting prior to her/him walking in to the studio or location.

Jan 31 13 07:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,482
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:

Yes sorry. Or just for a pre-shoot meet and greet coffee.

IMO.. I find that a complete waste of time.   Why would I sit there and talk about shooting when we could be shooting instead.

I set everything up via MM & confirm the shooting date/time by phone.

Jan 31 13 07:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


DAN CRUIKSHANK wrote:
I did a pre-shoot meeting at starbucks once, we met, it was fine... and then never shot lol.

For my location shoots I provide transportation, so I pick up the model wherever they want. We communicate via text. If they are running late they sometimes call me. I'm never late. If they are late it's no big deal, I sit in my car and listen to music smile

I'm fine with waiting once I know they're on the way.

Jan 31 13 07:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ras Media
Posts: 7
New York, New York, US


NicoleNudes wrote:
What does a meet up accomplish that a simple phone call can't?

I ask the same thing too. Try Skyping. Are you paying for coffee and bagels during the "meetup".

I would like as much free time as you seem to have buddy.

Jan 31 13 08:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DAN CRUIKSHANK
Posts: 1,786
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Images by MR wrote:

IMO.. I find that a complete waste of time.   Why would I sit there and talk about shooting when we could be shooting instead.

I set everything up via MM & confirm the shooting date/time by phone.

Agree. I won't do pre-shoot meetups anymore. I have a self portrait in my port, references listed, and I give my cell # as soon as we have a confirmed date. If that isn't good enough the shoot doesn't happen.

Jan 31 13 08:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Images by MR wrote:
IMO.. I find that a complete waste of time.   Why would I sit there and talk about shooting when we could be shooting instead.

I set everything up via MM & confirm the shooting date/time by phone.

Really. So basically you're totally fine with not knowing how the model actually looks in reality until she walks into your studio?

And how do you handle pre-shoot confirmations so you're not left sitting there waiting? day before? same day?

Jan 31 13 08:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Ras Media wrote:

I ask the same thing too. Try Skyping. Are you paying for coffee and bagels during the "meetup".

I would like as much free time as you seem to have buddy.

Yes I do. And no I don't have a lot of free time, hence the meeting a model in person prior to getting everything set up.

Jan 31 13 08:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DAN CRUIKSHANK
Posts: 1,786
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:

Really. So basically you're totally fine with not knowing how the model actually looks in reality until she walks into your studio?

And how do you handle pre-shoot confirmations so you're not left sitting there waiting?

Text them the morning of shoot... or evening before if it's a morning start.

Jan 31 13 08:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


And you're fine not knowing how they look except on MM until they walk into your studio? No need for make sure they're what you're looking for?

Are you talking commercial shoots, paid shoots or just the TF portfolio shoots? Or any?
Jan 31 13 08:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,482
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Really. So basically you're totally fine with not knowing how the model actually looks in reality until she walks into your studio?

And how do you handle pre-shoot confirmations so you're not left sitting there waiting? day before? same day?

I review there port & if I have any questions/concerns about how they look I simply request a unretouched photo be sent to me.

On the day of the shooting I give them a quick call to confirm... no answer to my call NO shooting.

Jan 31 13 08:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Images by MR wrote:
I review there port & if I have any questions/concerns about how they look I simple request a unretouched photo be sent to me.

On the day of the shooting I give them a quick call to confirm... no answer to my call NO shooting.

Well now that makes more sense. I did call twice. Just didn't txt it. Never use txt for business purposes.

Evidently, all of you are working in regular commercial studios and not in home based studios.

Well, I'll ponder it for awhile. smile Not sure if I like the informal business approach. And for the time being I am working out of a home based studio until I find space that works for me.

Security and avoiding later break ins is a factor too.

Jan 31 13 08:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,482
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Well now that makes more sense. I did call twice. Just didn't txt it. Never use txt for business purposes.

Evidently, all of you are working in regular commercial studios and not in home based studios.

What does it matter if I'm shooting in studio or on location.  It doesn't change how I set anything up.

Jan 31 13 08:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Thanks for your inputs.
Jan 31 13 08:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
William Hunter
Posts: 1,205
King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, US


If you find it efficient to have a meet up, do it.  It isn't a free time issue.  It is a creative issue.  For me anyway.  I hardly ever have pre-shoot meetings but sometimes when I don't really know what someone looks like, or I don't have prearranged concept that I believe they will fit into, I want to meet.   Talking to people helps me to create scenarios to work with.   I have found people on MM that I wanted to shoot in a dark setting but after talking to them, went for something brighter.  For me it is better to invest in coffee and spend 30 minutes with someone than trying to create something on the fly, or wasting a two hour shoot on someone that doesn't fit the concept.

As far as confirmations go, I suggest that you give them your personal cell number and be prepared to text since your business cell doesn't text.  You want to give them every possible chance to be able to reach you in the most convenient method for you.
Jan 31 13 08:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Maxximages
Posts: 1,977
Los Angeles, California, US


Sounds like you need to get with the 21st century and up date your phone to accept e-mails and texts. Very few llamas I have worked with call on their phone it's all e-mail and text.
Jan 31 13 08:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,482
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Security and avoiding later break ins is a factor too.

What does this have to do with your question & setting up a shooting?

Jan 31 13 08:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,887
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
How do most of the photogs on here handle confirming scheduled TF shoots, commercial shoots and meet ups with models (MUAHs and shoot staff)?

A little background to my question ....

I had an unfortunate situation today in which I missed a 1st meet up (I usually do 1st meet ups locally now) with a very nice model.

Our meet up was at Starbucks a few blocks from her home at 3:30.

I had called 2x this morning (9 and 10am) when I got into my office as I told her I would, but could only leave voice mails for her. Apparently she slept until noonish (sleep issues). She did send a txt at 12:30 and an email at 1pm confirming, which was courteous.

But by noon I was already back out of my office for another appointment. I did check my voice mail again at 2ish just in case, but nothing.

Turns out the poor gal had in fact gone to the meet up and waited for about 30 minutes!

The txt confirmation idea sort of flew by me as I only txt my teens. Never use txting for business. And my business phone does not even accept txts.

I check email when I'm in my office, unless I know there are critical deadlines and such then I haul around a small laptop.

I do have a personal cell that isn't generally given out so I use the business line for business and I check my messages pretty regularly.

So, how best to handle this in the future?

Should I place a preferred confirmation policy (?) on my MM profile, or will that look condescending?

Or, should I just chock this up to experience unless it happens again?

Its a reasonable expectation today that your cell phone will use texting unless you make some sort of disclaimer.  You cannot ignore the #1 communication tool of people under 30 and expect to communicate fully with models.  You would not have had to write this post.

Jan 31 13 08:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,788
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


JOEL McDONALD wrote:

Really. So basically you're totally fine with not knowing how the model actually looks in reality until she walks into your studio?

And how do you handle pre-shoot confirmations so you're not left sitting there waiting? day before? same day?

That's why you ask for unretouched shots and that's why you confirm the shoot via message/text/phone call.

Just because you had a meeting with someone doesn't mean they won't flake on you.

Jan 31 13 09:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,788
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I'm not saying this goes for everyone but of all the meetings I've gone to it's either been

A) A waste of my time because it's just rehashing everything that was talking about over MM

or

B) A waste of my time because the shoot never ends up happening.
Jan 31 13 09:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
And you're fine not knowing how they look except on MM until they walk into your studio? No need for make sure they're what you're looking for?

Are you talking commercial shoots, paid shoots or just the TF portfolio shoots? Or any?

Ask for polaroids.

Jan 31 13 09:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,566
Portland, Oregon, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Well now that makes more sense. I did call twice. Just didn't txt it. Never use txt for business purposes.

Evidently, all of you are working in regular commercial studios and not in home based studios.

Well, I'll ponder it for awhile. smile Not sure if I like the informal business approach. And for the time being I am working out of a home based studio until I find space that works for me.

Security and avoiding later break ins is a factor too.

Welcome to the Kobayashi Maru of model photography!!



You will have people who will prejudge you on the idea of pre-shoot meetings, but as you related that you are shooting in your home, I don't blame you for wanting to have a chance to meet and screen people at a location that is not your home.

While there is a downside that you'll encounter flakes, odds are some of those flakes would be flakes where ever you were going to meet up with them. 

It sounds like your situation goes a bit beyond simply confirming that a model looks like they say they look, and from your standpoint if that is a primary concern, then it is worth it.

On the other hand, some people will look at it as unnecessary, unprofessional, and potentially a red flag that you're looking for dates rather than a genuine face-to-face business meeting.

Basically, each person needs to make their own assessment of the positives and negatives of how they operate their business.

None of us are in your situation and you need to do what is right for you, not the rest of us.

Jan 31 13 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,461
Salinas, California, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:

Yes sorry. Or just for a pre-shoot meet and greet coffee.

Joel, you and I are old school in our use of texting.  Like you, I prefer talking on the phone.  I've even got a blue tooth so that I can drive and talk.  However, I've found that MANY models are avid users of texting to communicate.  I do check text messages as soon as I notice receiving them.  This is a lesson learned for you!

I'm not as hardcore about confirming a preshoot meeting, as I am about the actual photo shoots, but I often do meet at coffee shops ... I would have gone there anyway.   The worst that could happen to me is I buy some coffee, sit down to drink it, browse the net, or read the newspaper and then leave.  Come to think of it, that's something I'd do anyway!  wink

Jan 31 13 09:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,482
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


nm
Jan 31 13 09:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,461
Salinas, California, US


NicoleNudes wrote:
What does a meet up accomplish that a simple phone call can't?

A phone call is nice, but I can't tell what they really look like or get a feel for their personality as much as I can meeting them in person.   I do not like to trust the Internet.   I'm never sure of people until I've met them ... and even then I'm still cautious.  Also I've found that meeting in person often puts them at ease. 

It's a fact that I'm old school.   I've had my own studio where I could accept "walk ins" for portraits.  When it comes to my model castings, I've held those myself at schools, and other locations while selecting models for fashion shows.  I have never used a model agency ... EVER!  When it comes to weddings, every single wedding I've ever shot, I've met the couple in person first.  I don't tell people how good I really am at reading people, but that's the reason why I have so few flakes or issues with escorts.  Every little bit of information I can get about a subject before photographing them can help me!

You don't have to do preshoot meetings, and it's not mandatory for models to meet me for one.  It is mandatory that I speak on the phone (even a hearing impaired model was able to accomplish this with me) with a model before confirming the shoot date.  With the most recent shoot I did, the model and I spoke on the phone before I drove to her apartment and shot this picture.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130130/01/5108e649887d6_m.jpg

We both wanted some shots of her with her cats, and my coming to their environment is the better method rather than having her transport them to me.  We shot some solo of her outside, and we will shoot again sometime, but as a first TFP shoot with her, it was more of a getting to know each other thing.  Shoots after the "ice breaker shoot" are always better! Preshoot meetings often can improve the first shoot!

Jan 31 13 10:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DOUGLASFOTOS
Posts: 8,021
Los Angeles, California, US


DougBPhoto wrote:
Welcome to the Kobayashi Maru of model photography!!



You will have people who will prejudge you on the idea of pre-shoot meetings, but as you related that you are shooting in your home, I don't blame you for wanting to have a chance to meet and screen people at a location that is not your home.

While there is a downside that you'll encounter flakes, odds are some of those flakes would be flakes where ever you were going to meet up with them. 

It sounds like your situation goes a bit beyond simply confirming that a model looks like they say they look, and from your standpoint if that is a primary concern, then it is worth it.

On the other hand, some people will look at it as unnecessary, unprofessional, and potentially a red flag that you're looking for dates rather than a genuine face-to-face business meeting.

Basically, each person needs to make their own assessment of the positives and negatives of how they operate their business.

None of us are in your situation and you need to do what is right for you, not the rest of us.

At least Captain Kirk...knew how to change the no win situation into a winning situation. lol

I learned very early on MM..ask for a "today's photo" it has all type of info...like when the photo was taken....

Jan 31 13 10:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,461
Salinas, California, US


Maxximages wrote:
Sounds like you need to get with the 21st century and up date your phone to accept e-mails and texts. Very few models I have worked with call on their phone it's all e-mail and text.

True that!  I am tuned into my Facebook and Modelmayhem profiles too ... just in case!

Jan 31 13 10:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,566
Portland, Oregon, US


DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
At least Captain Kirk...knew how to change the no win situation into a winning situation. lol

I learned very early on MM..ask for a "today's photo" it has all type of info...like when the photo was taken....

It sounded to me that the OP was not exclusively concerned about confirming what the model currently looks like.

Jan 31 13 10:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DOUGLASFOTOS
Posts: 8,021
Los Angeles, California, US


DougBPhoto wrote:
It sounded to me that the OP was not exclusively concerned about confirming what the llama currently looks like.

Sorry..maybe too much Romulan Ale!!!

Jan 31 13 10:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,566
Portland, Oregon, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Should I place a preferred confirmation policy (?) on my MM profile, or will that look condescending?

Or, should I just chock this up to experience unless it happens again?

To elaborate on this specifically would quickly go into the area of a critique, which is not permitted outside of the critique forum.

Jan 31 13 10:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


My phone receives calls, texts, emails, it's connected to my FB, the Facebook messenger. I have not had a land line in over 10 years. Basically, contacting me isn't a problem be it an email, MM mail, FB post, message it's all cool in my book.

What is not cool is telling me you want to work with me, setting up a day to meet. Me leaving a voice mail and text message while you are posting photos on FB trough Instagram and I am waiting for a response 50 miles away from home, that is very not cool. big_smile

OP I agree with the person that said you probably need to get on the whole technological age band wagon. Land lines and voice mails are hardly used anymore.
Jan 31 13 10:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,055
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


I suppose there could be some situation in which a pre-shoot meetup would be useful, but I can’t think of one. If the model requested it, and it would make her more comfortable, I’d meet for coffee – but most of the models I’ve shot live at least 200-300 miles from St. Louis. Offhand I can’t think of a model I’ve met before the shoot.

Rarely do we even talk on the phone before a shoot unless the model gets lost en route to the studio or calls to say she’s running late.

There were two MUAs who wanted to meet for coffee to toss some ideas around – just in general, not for a specific shoot. I met one last summer and the other in early November. I have yet to do a shoot with either of them.

When I started shooting again in 2011 (after years of doing other things) I had more flakes than shoots. Now flakes are very rare.

First, I plan shoots in advance with models – before I even book the shoot. We start with genres and work through specific ideas, wardrobe, location, looks, moods, etc. We exchange photos to illustrate the looks we have in mind.

In most cases I’ve seen photos of (or helped select) the wardrobe. Everybody knows what we’re shooting, when, where, and in what order. If they’ve invested a couple of hours in planning a shoot, and we’re shooting some things that they want to do, generally they show up.

We exchange cell phone numbers, and I send directions to the studio, the day we book the shoot, and I tell the model I’d like to confirm the day before the shoot.

If it’s a paid shoot, I collect either a 50% retainer or payment in full ten days before the shoot.

Seems to work pretty well.
Jan 31 13 11:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Oh I have the cell (still using a BB since I like the physical key pad vs the touch) and I txt with my 2 teens (single dad stuff) extensively. But the BB is my personal #. I like to keep my business activities separate from my personal as much as possible, so I have numbers for each.

The biz line is a VOIP desk unit with 2 lines and the USB feeding into my desktop. Guess I'll pick up an additional line/cell for biz txting and such with models, MUAHs and other photogs now. No biggie.

As for the pre-shoot meet ups, it's more a security thing as anything else. I've read a number of threads on here about the misfortunes of photogs. Some robbed on location (hotels rooms, etc.) and some from their commercial studios after hours. And even some that were ripped off from their own homes by llama herders and/or meth head BF's.

So, since I am currently using an in-home studio (I do rent when needed) I like to have one more layer of prevention before I let a stranger into my home.

It's a lot different than it used to be. A lot more fun in many ways, but also having more need for common sense.

But the txting thing with models is now going to be remedied.

btw, the missed model emailed saying she understood the mix up.  Nice gal. We're planning another meet up shortly.

Thanks all.
Feb 01 13 12:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,887
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Really. So basically you're totally fine with not knowing how the model actually looks in reality until she walks into your studio?

And how do you handle pre-shoot confirmations so you're not left sitting there waiting? day before? same day?

Joel-  I also think that planing meetings are essential to success. I need to confirm the look, reliability, concepts, and agreement to all terms before I commit my time, stylists, and other expenses.  It all needs to work to make sure that it will clearly benefit my portfolio/business.  The right clothing is so essential to good photos that I need to make sure its available or needs to be obtained for the shoot.

A bad or missed 15 minute planning meeting is much better than a wasted 4 hour shoot.  Commercial clients get the same treatment to make sure we hit a home run every time.

-Scott

Feb 01 13 05:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Meet-ups are a waste of everybody's time.

Work with reliable people and check references if you're not sure.

If you're spending money on a shoot, go through an agency and they will ensure you have a model on the day. If you're just testing, keep costs to a minimum and have an alternative plan - eg. catching up on retouching - in case the model doesn't turn up.




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
Feb 01 13 05:57 am  Link  Quote 
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