login info join!
Forums > Critique > So I tried to shoot a Helmut Newton.. Search   Reply
12last
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


..in an old apartment building's laundry room wink ...and it sort of worked. Don't jump on me for plagiarism, lack of creativity etc. I know. It was for fun.

my effort
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/31453087 18+
edit: more contrasty version http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/31506454 18+

vs. the original
http://www.artvalue.com/photos/auction/ … 210204.jpg 18+

So why doesn't it work, only so-so. Interior? It ain't no Chateau Marmont. Model? Beautiful girl in Winnipeg  and LA supermodel are not the same thing, and MKPhoto is. well...

Tell me what you think.
Jan 31 13 09:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave phoenix
Posts: 1,272
Phoenix, Arizona, US


you're asking, what's the difference between the photos... aside from the location and the llama?
Jan 31 13 09:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


dave phoenix wrote:
you're asking, what's the difference between the photos... aside from the location and the model?

Pretty much...

Jan 31 13 09:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bodyshop Studio
Posts: 34
Provo, Utah, US


Hmm...Bicycle wheel catching my eye to the right?  I like it though....maybe it needs the dirty laundry on the floor...centered...drawing me to the model?  I'm not sure..I'm still relatively new at this.  Nice attempt though.  I do like it.
Jan 31 13 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravo Magic Images
Posts: 765
Temple City, California, US


I belive the fact that your image looks digital and of course the other is film i noticed that the original has a Flash directed in front of the model where as your flash is above the model.
Jan 31 13 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5,409
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US


I like yours better.
Jan 31 13 09:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


Dan K Photography wrote:
I like yours better.

LOL. Thanks. I don't.

Jan 31 13 09:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave phoenix
Posts: 1,272
Phoenix, Arizona, US


well, compositionally newton's is much more complex, whereas yours has big areas of dead space above and below the model.

newton's has multiple light sources, and it looks like yours has just one. compare the shadow your girl is casting to the shadow newton's is casting.

they're both in laundry rooms, but only one actually has anything in it that looks like laundry.

newton's has more contrast. if you put them side by side, yours looks more medium-gray and his looks more black and white.

in newton's shot, the girl is the tallest thing in the frame. in yours, there's that big closet on the left, and it's casting a big shadow, competing with the girl visually.

newton's girl takes up more of the frame than your girl does.


does any of that help?
Jan 31 13 09:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AgX
Posts: 1,194
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Neither image particularly appeals to me.

In yours, my eye is drawn away from the subject by many distracting (in my opinion) items: the garbage by her foot, the bicycle wheel, the shadow on the left edge of the frame. I like the strong shadow on the wall.
Jan 31 13 09:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


dave phoenix wrote:
well, compositionally newton's is much more complex, whereas yours has big areas of dead space above and below the model.

newton's has multiple light sources, and it looks like yours has just one. compare the shadow your girl is casting to the shadow newton's is casting.

they're both in laundry rooms, but only one actually has anything in it that looks like laundry.

newton's has more contrast. if you put them side by side, yours looks more medium-gray and his looks more black and white.

in newton's shot, the girl is the tallest thing in the frame. in yours, there's that big closet on the left, and it's casting a big shadow, competing with the girl visually.

newton's girl takes up more of the frame than your girl does.


does any of that help?

Thanks! Helps? yes..and no wink  Seems the location is a very limiting factor, the wall, the cabinet. Lightwise, I think this is aone light (plus ambient) setup, though.

Jan 31 13 09:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brendan Lally Photo
Posts: 50
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Biggest differences are composition and lighting. Original has very little dead space but still draws the eye to the model. There are multiple sources of lighting with the key light being low in front of the model, see where her shadow is.
Jan 31 13 09:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


Brendan Lally Photo wrote:
Biggest differences are composition and lighting. Original has very little dead space but still draws the eye to the model. There are multiple sources of lighting with the key light being low in front of the model, see where her shadow is.

Where is the other light (outside of the obvious key)? IMO This is one flash plus fluorescent from the ceiling.... Dead space is well ...location...wink Getting rid of the bicycle and adding some laundry would help...

Jan 31 13 09:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brendan Lally Photo
Posts: 50
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


MKPhoto wrote:

Where is the other light (outside of the obvious key)? IMO This is one flash plus fluorescent from the ceiling.... Dead space is well ...location...wink Getting rid of the bicycle and adding some laundry would help...

IMO there is a fill light source to reduce shadow on the face and left side of models hair. Option could be to position the model in front of the sink, this will still allow for a good shadow and also shoot low and crop in. Great idea to recreate these classic looks smile

Jan 31 13 10:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tonic Dog Studios
Posts: 12,527
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


IMO, model pose is the biggest issue that needs to be addressed.

Original has a classic "S-pose" (that's what I call it).  With a little bent forward at the waist.

Your model's shoulders are level (making a "C") which is an inferior pose.  Her left hip is up/popped therefore the left shoulder needs to drop toward it.
Jan 31 13 10:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,019
Columbus, Ohio, US


Need to shoot from a better angle and pay more attention to what's in the background.
Jan 31 13 10:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


Tonic Dog Studios wrote:
IMO, model pose is the biggest issue that needs to be addressed.

Original has a classic "S-pose" (that's what I call it).  With a little bent forward at the waist.

Your model's shoulders are level (making a "C") which is an inferior pose.  Her left hip is up/popped therefore the left shoulder needs to drop toward it.

Thanks.

Jan 31 13 10:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


Small Fruit Pits wrote:
Need to shoot from a better angle and pay more attention to what's in the background.

Thanks. I will try the former, there will be a problem with the latter sad

Jan 31 13 10:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sergei Rodionov
Posts: 865
Dallas, Texas, US


your version compositionally way off (white blob on left blocks attention vs tiny sink in his, elements like blanket of the floor, half circle of shiny wheel in yours.. & etc). Light is at the wrong angle, specially for model with less of figure than in original.  Also angle of shooting is not same and is in fact wrong too. And pose is wrong.
Feb 01 13 09:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,106
Orlando, Florida, US


Why are you trying to shoot a Helmut Newton photo instead of concentrating on shooting an MKPhoto image?

Spend less time imitating and more time developing.
Feb 01 13 09:39 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jojo West
Posts: 972
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


I've been trying to work with a photographer that uses Helmut Newton's work as inspiration...they're harder to find than you think.

I think you did a great job.
Feb 01 13 09:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,106
Orlando, Florida, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
Why are you trying to shoot a Helmut Newton photo instead of concentrating on shooting an MKPhoto image?

Spend less time imitating and more time developing.

For the record, I prefer the less contrasty version.  And it's my personal opinion, but both of them (yours and his) are not interesting to me.

I hate it when I hit the quote button and not the edit button.

Feb 01 13 09:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Since others have stated the main issues, I'll just point out one other item that stands out...and it's a major element (to me).

Look at the laundry items (washer/dryer) in the original. Now look at the one you used? It pales in comparison doesn't it? Those two round industrial-type units vs. a piddly Sears unit make a big difference to me.

The original are like huge eyes framing the model and overwhelm her...and align so perfectly with the ominous feel of the lighting and shadows.
Feb 01 13 09:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sergei Rodionov
Posts: 865
Dallas, Texas, US


Jojo West wrote:
I've been trying to work with a photographer that uses Helmut Newton's work as inspiration...they're harder to find than you think.

Considering that Helmut called himself "pornographer"

Feb 01 13 09:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,106
Orlando, Florida, US


Sergei Rodionov wrote:

Considering that Helmut called himself "pornographer"

And a voyeur. 


He was the penultimate GWC.

Feb 01 13 09:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:

And a voyeur. 


He was the penultimate GWC.

And don't those two bold w/d units in Newton's reinforce that feeling of voyeurism? They almost envelop the model.

Feb 01 13 09:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Timothy Logan
Posts: 524
Cleveland, Ohio, US


MKPhoto wrote:

Where is the other light (outside of the obvious key)? IMO This is one flash plus fluorescent from the ceiling.... Dead space is well ...location...wink Getting rid of the bicycle and adding some laundry would help...

I'd agree with you on the light, except it's probably not a flash... Partially from looking at the photo and partially from knowing how Newton worked. From looking at his work and reading his biography I know it's very rare that he used more than a single light source. Usually a single powerful flood light without any kind of modifier. The guy just knew how to shoot and balance the available light.

Feb 01 13 10:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 32,026
Los Angeles, California, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
He was the penultimate GWC.

Who was the ultimate one?

Feb 01 13 10:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 759
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Not a bad photo.

As I see it, the differences are in details and nuances.

In Helmut’s photo, the machines are larger (and taller), and his photo was shot from a lower angle. This, plus the fact that in his photo the machines are directly behind the model, makes the concrete walls and some of the clutter less prominent.

Helmut’s lower angle makes the model appear more “leggy.” Most likely she actually is slightly taller and has longer legs.

Despite the fact that the two laundry rooms are about equally cluttered, the lower angle in Helmut’s photo (and the reduced emphasis on the walls, the composition and the fact that Helmut’s photo is shown at a smaller size) makes his laundry room seem less cluttered and more organized.

Also, the shadows in Helmut's photo are smaller abd partly concealed behind the model rather than enlarged on the wall.
Feb 01 13 10:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sospix
Posts: 21,127
Orlando, Florida, US


Jojo West wrote:
I've been trying to work with a photographer that uses Helmut Newton's work as inspiration...they're harder to find than you think.

I think you did a great job.

I can be inspired by anyone's work  .  .  .  with the right model  .  .  .  wink  Say like Miss Jo Jo and some HN  .  .  .  how soon can ya be here  .  .  .  as to the OP's question, HN's image has a bit more of a dramatic angle, the model is more of focal point, as are the doors of the laundry equipment, those BIG, round circles are subliminal, but also important to the image and it's message, notice how they mimic the models breasts  .  .  .  the lighting is a bit different, somewhat more dramatic in the original  .  .  .  and the cropping is a bit different as well  .  .  .  nothing wrong with doing studies from others' works, helps you develop the eye for details  .  .  .

SOS

Feb 01 13 10:22 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jojo West
Posts: 972
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
And a voyeur. 


He was the penultimate GWC.

Aren't we all a bit of a voyeur, photographers in particular? Models a bit of an exhibitionist? tongue

As far as him being a pornographer? Well considering he was learning and starting his photographic career in the 1930s yeah he was...AT THE TIME, lol.

Helmut Newton and pornography are two different genres. smile

sospix wrote:
I can be inspired by anyone's work  .  .  .  with the right model  .  .  .  wink  Say like Miss Jo Jo and some HN  .  .  .

Let's get to it then tongue

Feb 01 13 10:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,106
Orlando, Florida, US


The Space Cowboy wrote:

Who was the ultimate one?

I'm going with Uncle Terry on that one.

Survey says!!!.....  ding.

Feb 01 13 10:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Horwitz
Posts: 2,584
Raleigh, North Carolina, US


Honestly, you failed at scale, contrast, lighting, pose and composition to name a few....just shooting similar objects does not get you the same results especially if you are looking for an emotional component which is also lacking
Feb 01 13 10:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sergei Rodionov
Posts: 865
Dallas, Texas, US


Jojo West wrote:
As far as him being a pornographer? Well considering he was learning and starting his photographic career in the 1930s yeah he was...AT THE TIME, lol.

Helmut Newton and pornography are two different genres. smile

you obviously never watched old german porn then.
Exact match.

Not to mention he described himself like that. Not i.
If you watched documentary you would hear it too.

Feb 01 13 12:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
James S Kassanoff
Posts: 812
Washington, New Jersey, US


Newton's---> compositional strong adherence to the "rule of thirds". If you notice Newton's, you'll see how the various elements lead your eye around the entire image... including the pile of laundry.  That's not there by happenstance.

Yours---> Compositional continuity seems limited to the lower half of the image.  You're on the right track, but need to study composition and not just subject matter.

I lose track of this basic every now and again too!
Feb 01 13 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jojo West
Posts: 972
Silver Spring, Maryland, US


Sergei Rodionov wrote:

you obviously never watched old german porn then.
Exact match.

Not to mention he described himself like that. Not i.
If you watched documentary you would hear it too.

I'm speaking strictly of his photography (which doesn't qualify...FOR ME). I guess we can call this differing perception. Of course, the porn I watch is all but conventional lol smile

Feb 01 13 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


.
Feb 01 13 01:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MKPhoto
Posts: 5,664
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


Michael Pandolfo wrote:
Since others have stated the main issues, I'll just point out one other item that stands out...and it's a major element (to me).

Look at the laundry items (washer/dryer) in the original. Now look at the one you used? It pales in comparison doesn't it? Those two round industrial-type units vs. a piddly Sears unit make a big difference to me.

The original are like huge eyes framing the model and overwhelm her...and align so perfectly with the ominous feel of the lighting and shadows.

Yep. Winnipeg basement ain't no Chateau Marmont sad

Good Egg Productions wrote:
Why are you trying to shoot a Helmut Newton photo instead of concentrating on shooting an MKPhoto image?

Spend less time imitating and more time developing.

... Don't jump on me for plagiarism, lack of creativity etc. I know. It was for fun. ...

It was for fun. We did our own shooting mostly. It just occurred to me that the place looks sort of like that, so my "recreation" of the composition was from memory.

Thanks for feedback. I feel like visiting this basement again, despite its shortcoming as a scene/background, and spend a few more minutes of shooting fun there.

Feb 01 13 01:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtGlo
Posts: 506
Peru, Illinois, US


Timothy Logan wrote:

I'd agree with you on the light, except it's probably not a flash... Partially from looking at the photo and partially from knowing how Newton worked. From looking at his work and reading his biography I know it's very rare that he used more than a single light source. Usually a single powerful flood light without any kind of modifier. The guy just knew how to shoot and balance the available light.

im going with one key light and ambient ceiling flourescents.

Feb 01 13 01:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8,587
Pensacola, Florida, US


For me the first difference I notice is that there are not enough things in the room to create the amount of harsh shadows in the Helmut Newton one.  Also it's too wide of a shot; the model does not take up enough space.
Feb 01 13 01:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erlinda
Posts: 7,036
London, England, United Kingdom


The angle of which you took the picture from is different, as well as how far away you are from the model and the lighting is different.

Angle- from what I can tell he was shooting from a low angle making the model look a lot taller.

Lighting- your lighting is from the left side of the model which makes her shadow go to the side of her. If you look at newton's photo the models shadow is almost right behind her.

You can try to shoot it again and this time a little father from the model as well smile
Feb 01 13 02:29 pm  Link  Quote 
12last   Search   Reply



main | browse | casting/travel | forums | shout box | help | advertising | contests | share | join the mayhem

more modelmayhem on: | | | edu

©2006-2014 ModelMayhem.com. All Rights Reserved.
MODEL MAYHEM is a registered trademark.
Toggle Worksafe Mode: Off | On
Terms | Privacy | Careers