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Photographer
BrandonLundby
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


I took this image a couple days ago and although I do like the image there is something about it I don't like, I can't pinpoint it. Perhaps a bit dull? over retouched maybe? I can't quite tell. I'd like some opinions on it.

It's the last image.


http://bclphotography.squarespace.com/portfolio/


I greatly appreciate it smile
Jan 31 13 10:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A N D E R S O N
Posts: 2,553
Garden Grove, California, US


The face shapes look very unnatural to me.
Jan 31 13 11:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
allison mindy
Posts: 1,493
New York, New York, US


A N D E R S O N wrote:
The face shapes look very unnatural to me.

+1 The model on the left's chin is jutting out very awkwardly. On the other hand I love the lighting smile

Jan 31 13 11:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 734
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


The page I get when I click on your link has 11 photos on it. I don't know which one you're referring to.
Jan 31 13 11:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrandonLundby
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Barely StL wrote:
The page I get when I click on your link has 11 photos on it. I don't know which one you're referring to.

Its the last image

Jan 31 13 11:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrandonLundby
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


allison mindy wrote:
+1 The model on the left's chin is jutting out very awkwardly. On the other hand I love the lighting smile

I do see that now, I did change the shape quite a bit, but not on purpose. I took a large piece of hair out that was blocking her forehead. I also took her nose from another photo and put it in this one because in the original her nose was completely blocked by her hair. Perhaps I didn't pay great attention to the fact that her head is tilted back a bit.

and thank you for your comment on the lighting smile

Jan 31 13 11:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrandonLundby
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


allison mindy wrote:

+1 The model on the left's chin is jutting out very awkwardly. On the other hand I love the lighting smile

I attempted to correct the shape of the left models face. Do you guys think it looks any better?

Jan 31 13 11:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 734
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


It’s hard to do a facial analysis when one model is in profile and both models' faces are partly hidden by the first model’s hair, so take these suggestions with a grain of salt.

First, the lighting is good for the model on the right, and not so good for the model on the left. There is little modeling or contouring in her face.

I would bet that the photo would be improved by switching the positions of the two models. I’m fairly certain that the right side (camera left) of the face of the model with lighter hair is the feminine side of her face and should be closer to the camera.

It seems likely that the right side (the one that’s shown) of the face of the model with dark hair is the masculine side of her face. If that’s correct (and since I can see only one side of her face it’s basically an educated guess) you’d want to emphasize the left side of her face – and if her hair is going to cover part of her face, it should be the left (feminine) side of her face.

I would have moved the main light farther to the right for the benefit of the model on the left. The lighting on her is very much broad lighting, and I suspect that short lighting would be more flattering.

Also, one model is interacting with the camera and the other is interacting with nothing. Generally poses with two models are strengthened by having the models interact with each other rather than with the camera.

The photo has been a bit overprocessed for my taste (more like something I would have done a year ago than today).
Jan 31 13 11:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JP09
Posts: 32
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


The piece of hair between the two models: It looks like you cropped something out and didn't replace the shadow on the light-haired models face. The light haired model also has a chip in her neck.... and the outline of the hair on the left side model is off. (Its looks like the edit is still in progress some of the hair doesn't look real).
Jan 31 13 11:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrandonLundby
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Barely StL wrote:
It’s hard to do a facial analysis when one model is in profile and both models' faces are partly hidden by the first model’s hair, so take these suggestions with a grain of salt.

First, the lighting is good for the model on the right, and not so good for the model on the left. There is little modeling or contouring in her face.

I would bet that the photo would be improved by switching the positions of the two models. I’m fairly certain that the right side (camera left) of the face of the model with lighter hair is the feminine side of her face and should be closer to the camera.

It seems likely that the right side (the one that’s shown) of the face of the model with dark hair is the masculine side of her face. If that’s correct (and since I can see only one side of her face it’s basically an educated guess) you’d want to emphasize the left side of her face – and if her hair is going to cover part of her face, it should be the left (feminine) side of her face.

I would have moved the main light farther to the right for the benefit of the model on the left. The lighting on her is very much broad lighting, and I suspect that short lighting would be more flattering.

Also, one model is interacting with the camera and the other is interacting with nothing. Generally poses with two models are strengthened by having the models interact with each other rather than with the camera.

The photo has been a bit overprocessed for my taste (more like something I would have done a year ago than today).

Thank you! lots of things to think about next time I'm shooting two models at once

Jan 31 13 11:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrandonLundby
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


JP09 wrote:
The piece of hair between the two models: It looks like you cropped something out and didn't replace the shadow on the light-haired models face. The light haired model also has a chip in her neck.... and the outline of the hair on the left side model is off. (Its looks like the edit is still in progress some of the hair doesn't look real).

much of her hair was covering the right models face so I took a lot of it out and yes you're right I should have placed some sort of shadow there! thank you. I'm not seeing the chip on her neck though. I agree on the hairline though hmm just not really sure how to fix it

Jan 31 13 11:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KMA2SQ
Posts: 3,393
Knoxville, Tennessee, US


Maybe the highlight on the lip behind the hair is too strong.  Maybe some of the saturation is a little high.
Jan 31 13 11:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 734
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Barely StL wrote:
It’s hard to do a facial analysis when one model is in profile and both models' faces are partly hidden by the first model’s hair, so take these suggestions with a grain of salt.

First, the lighting is good for the model on the right, and not so good for the model on the left. There is little modeling or contouring in her face.

I would bet that the photo would be improved by switching the positions of the two models. I’m fairly certain that the right side (camera left) of the face of the model with lighter hair is the feminine side of her face and should be closer to the camera.

It seems likely that the right side (the one that’s shown) of the face of the model with dark hair is the masculine side of her face. If that’s correct (and since I can see only one side of her face it’s basically an educated guess) you’d want to emphasize the left side of her face – and if her hair is going to cover part of her face, it should be the left (feminine) side of her face.

I would have moved the main light farther to the right for the benefit of the model on the left. The lighting on her is very much broad lighting, and I suspect that short lighting would be more flattering.

Also, one model is interacting with the camera and the other is interacting with nothing. Generally poses with two models are strengthened by having the models interact with each other rather than with the camera.

The photo has been a bit overprocessed for my taste (more like something I would have done a year ago than today).
B C L wrote:
Thank you! lots of things to think about next time I'm shooting two models at once

That's something I have to watch when shooting with multiple models. I don’t do a lot of couples shoots. I did a nude couple shoot recently, and it took me a while to realize that the male model was interacting with the female model, and the female model was spending way too much time playing to the camera.

Do you know how to tell which side of the face is which?

Feb 01 13 12:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrandonLundby
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Barely StL wrote:

Barely StL wrote:
It’s hard to do a facial analysis when one model is in profile and both models' faces are partly hidden by the first model’s hair, so take these suggestions with a grain of salt.

First, the lighting is good for the model on the right, and not so good for the model on the left. There is little modeling or contouring in her face.

I would bet that the photo would be improved by switching the positions of the two models. I’m fairly certain that the right side (camera left) of the face of the model with lighter hair is the feminine side of her face and should be closer to the camera.

It seems likely that the right side (the one that’s shown) of the face of the model with dark hair is the masculine side of her face. If that’s correct (and since I can see only one side of her face it’s basically an educated guess) you’d want to emphasize the left side of her face – and if her hair is going to cover part of her face, it should be the left (feminine) side of her face.

I would have moved the main light farther to the right for the benefit of the model on the left. The lighting on her is very much broad lighting, and I suspect that short lighting would be more flattering.

Also, one model is interacting with the camera and the other is interacting with nothing. Generally poses with two models are strengthened by having the models interact with each other rather than with the camera.

The photo has been a bit overprocessed for my taste (more like something I would have done a year ago than today).

That's something I have to watch when shooting with multiple models. I don’t do a lot of couples shoots. I did a nude couple shoot recently, and it took me a while to realize that the male model was interacting with the female model, and the female model was spending way too much time playing to the camera.

Do you know how to tell which side of the face is which?

no I don't! I'd love to know!

Feb 01 13 12:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
dave phoenix
Posts: 1,256
Phoenix, Arizona, US


poorly retouched, in my opinion.

the brunette's face is turned so far that her eye looks strange - i'd have her turn her nose a bit back towards the camera so there's a little bit of white on both sides of the iris.

i don't like much about the other model in the shot - i'm getting way too much information about what the inside of her nose looks like. it looks like her brows don't really match her hair color. maybe it's the fact that her head is tilted back, but her whole face looks very short and wide as opposed to tall and thin.
Feb 01 13 12:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Barely StL
Posts: 734
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Barely StL wrote:
Do you know how to tell which side of the face is which?
B C L wrote:
no I don't! I'd love to know!

Okay, this is something I learned back in the 1960’s (when I was in high school) from a portrait photographer. A friend of mine who does about 15 workshops (model photography, fashion and beauty) a year has incorporated it into his workshops.

No face is perfectly symmetrical (although there’s maybe 1 in 500 to 1,000 that’s so close that it’s hard to tell the difference).

There are three measurements (on each side of the face) that concern you. The first is the distance from the tip of the nose to the cheekbone. The second is from the tip of the nose to the jawbone. The third is the relative size of the eyes.

You don’t physically measure with a ruler or a tape measure – but when I was learning this, I used my fingers. With the model’s permission, of course, I’d put my right index finger on the model’s nose and my left index finger on the model’s right cheekbone. Then I’d shift so that my left finger was on her nose and my right finger was on her left cheekbone. That helped to tell which distance was greater.

Then I did the same thing with the jawbones.

Now I just have the model stand where both sides of her face are evenly lit and look at me for about 5 seconds. I haven’t actually “measured” in decades.

About 95 times out of 100, the side with the smaller distance from nose to cheekbone and nose to jawbone and the smaller eye will be the same side of the face. That’s the feminine side.

With a female model, you want the feminine side to be closer to the camera – and the main light to be on the opposite side. If the right side of the model’s face (her right, camera left), you want the main light to be to the left of right side (your right, camera right) of the camera.

You want to use short lighting, especially for headshots. I may use different lighting as well, but I pretty much shoot some of the headshots with short lighting at each shoot where I’m doing headshots..

The model probably isn’t going to have her feminine side to the camera for every shot, and that’s fine. But for at least 2/3 or ¾ of the photos, you want her posed that way – for two reasons. First, it emphasizes the feminine side. Second, that’s the way you set up the main light.

Things that are closer to the camera (the feminine side) look larger, and things that are farther from the camera (the masculine side) look smaller in a photograph. So not only are you emphasizing the model’s “better” side. You are making her face more symmetrical in the photo.

This is especially noticeable in headshots and beauty shots – much more so than in a full-length photo.

If part of the model’s face is covered by long hair (composition aside for the moment) it should be the masculine side. The hair helps to slim the masculine side even more and make them more symmetrical. If the hair were on the feminine side it would make the face less symmetrical.

(For some reason, most models who have hair covering part of their face have it on the feminine side. Several have changed since I showed them the difference.)

You can’t always tell which side is which from a photo. First, the light may not be directly in front of the model. Second, the facial muscles are always moving, at least in small amounts, as long as the model is breathing. And for the 1/1000 second when the photo was shot, maybe the model was just beginning to blink, and the two eyes weren’t perfectly in sync – which might make the larger eye look smaller.

I try to tell which side is which side of the model’s face is which and set up my lights accordingly before the model arrives. More than 90% of the time I’m right. But soon after the model arrives, I put her in even lighting and have her look me in the eye for 5 seconds or so to make sure.

My friend has added a couple of photos to his presentation. Both are from the same photo with the model directly facing the camera and her face evenly light with a light in front of her and elevated.

Then he made one image in which both sides of the face are the feminine side (with one of them flipped, of course) – and another where both sides are the masculine side. In the photo where both sides are the feminine side, the model looks like a gorgeous babe. In the one where both sides are the masculine side – well, she looks like a boy with long hair.

The difference is that dramatic with some models – but not with all.

When the three smaller measurements are not on the same side of the face, it becomes a judgment call. In those cases, generally it’s the eye that is not in sync with the other two measurements. In those cases I just decide whether it’s the eye size or the other two measurements that have the greater variance. Whichever measurements have the greater variance determine the feminine side.

With a guy, it doesn’t matter much which side you emphasize. If you emphasize the feminine side, he might look more handsome, while if you emphasize the masculine side, he looks more rugged. Win win.

Feb 01 13 12:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Artifice
Posts: 30,949
Los Angeles, California, US


Are you doing something to sharpen and square up their shoulders in some of these? They have no deltoids.

That Asian woman's left (screen right) eye seems very high, so that her eyes go off to a completely different vanishing point than do her nostrils and lips.
Feb 01 13 12:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DavidCoward Photography
Posts: 629
Sandy Springs, Georgia, US


Lots of great analyses above. As a photo "consumer" I'd say that I love the tones and lighting, but feel it's definitely overprocessed. Part of that comes from my preference for more naturalism, so skin that is "perfect" is distracting to me. Also, the angle of the model's face (on our left) seems quite awkward.
Feb 01 13 01:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrandonLundby
Posts: 117
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Barely StL wrote:

Barely StL wrote:
Do you know how to tell which side of the face is which?

Okay, this is something I learned back in the 1960’s (when I was in high school) from a portrait photographer. A friend of mine who does about 15 workshops (model photography, fashion and beauty) a year has incorporated it into his workshops.

No face is perfectly symmetrical (although there’s maybe 1 in 500 to 1,000 that’s so close that it’s hard to tell the difference).

There are three measurements (on each side of the face) that concern you. The first is the distance from the tip of the nose to the cheekbone. The second is from the tip of the nose to the jawbone. The third is the relative size of the eyes.

You don’t physically measure with a ruler or a tape measure – but when I was learning this, I used my fingers. With the model’s permission, of course, I’d put my right index finger on the model’s nose and my left index finger on the model’s right cheekbone. Then I’d shift so that my left finger was on her nose and my right finger was on her left cheekbone. That helped to tell which distance was greater.

Then I did the same thing with the jawbones.

Now I just have the model stand where both sides of her face are evenly lit and look at me for about 5 seconds. I haven’t actually “measured” in decades.

About 95 times out of 100, the side with the smaller distance from nose to cheekbone and nose to jawbone and the smaller eye will be the same side of the face. That’s the feminine side.

With a female model, you want the feminine side to be closer to the camera – and the main light to be on the opposite side. If the right side of the model’s face (her right, camera left), you want the main light to be to the left of right side (your right, camera right) of the camera.

You want to use short lighting, especially for headshots. I may use different lighting as well, but I pretty much shoot some of the headshots with short lighting at each shoot where I’m doing headshots..

The model probably isn’t going to have her feminine side to the camera for every shot, and that’s fine. But for at least 2/3 or ¾ of the photos, you want her posed that way – for two reasons. First, it emphasizes the feminine side. Second, that’s the way you set up the main light.

Things that are closer to the camera (the feminine side) look larger, and things that are farther from the camera (the masculine side) look smaller in a photograph. So not only are you emphasizing the model’s “better” side. You are making her face more symmetrical in the photo.

This is especially noticeable in headshots and beauty shots – much more so than in a full-length photo.

If part of the model’s face is covered by long hair (composition aside for the moment) it should be the masculine side. The hair helps to slim the masculine side even more and make them more symmetrical. If the hair were on the feminine side it would make the face less symmetrical.

(For some reason, most models who have hair covering part of their face have it on the feminine side. Several have changed since I showed them the difference.)

You can’t always tell which side is which from a photo. First, the light may not be directly in front of the model. Second, the facial muscles are always moving, at least in small amounts, as long as the model is breathing. And for the 1/1000 second when the photo was shot, maybe the model was just beginning to blink, and the two eyes weren’t perfectly in sync – which might make the larger eye look smaller.

I try to tell which side is which side of the model’s face is which and set up my lights accordingly before the model arrives. More than 90% of the time I’m right. But soon after the model arrives, I put her in even lighting and have her look me in the eye for 5 seconds or so to make sure.

My friend has added a couple of photos to his presentation. Both are from the same photo with the model directly facing the camera and her face evenly light with a light in front of her and elevated.

Then he made one image in which both sides of the face are the feminine side (with one of them flipped, of course) – and another where both sides are the masculine side. In the photo where both sides are the feminine side, the model looks like a gorgeous babe. In the one where both sides are the masculine side – well, she looks like a boy with long hair.

The difference is that dramatic with some models – but not with all.

When the three smaller measurements are not on the same side of the face, it becomes a judgment call. In those cases, generally it’s the eye that is not in sync with the other two measurements. In those cases I just decide whether it’s the eye size or the other two measurements that have the greater variance. Whichever measurements have the greater variance determine the feminine side.

With a guy, it doesn’t matter much which side you emphasize. If you emphasize the feminine side, he might look more handsome, while if you emphasize the masculine side, he looks more rugged. Win win.

Wow! Really awesome advice, I'll definitely be using this, thank you so much for sharing smile

Feb 01 13 02:07 am  Link  Quote 
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