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Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Alright, I know that this is a pretty lame question... please don't give me too much flack. smile

Everyone says that the key to being a successful, paid model without agency representation is networking, networking, networking.. and building a fan base (for glamour-type models, which is the direction I've decided this week that I'm going in). The thing is, silly of me or not, I don't really understand the specifics of how to successfully network or how to build my fan base... apparently. I mean, I have a FB fan page and Twitter, I follow people I admire and would like to work with, and so on.

If you're in a good mood this evening/afternoon/morning, would anyone be able to give me a little bit of a heads-up as to what I'm doing wrong, or, since this isn't the critique section and that might not be acceptable, how to do these things successfully? I'd really appreciate it. smile

Thanks in advance!
Feb 01 13 11:30 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Scarlett Renee
Posts: 217
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


For fan building via social networks, I suggest google plus. Make an account and play around with it - its far better than facebook these days if you can use it right, which I really cant properly explain. The interaction is better and google keeps amping it up by adding communities and the like. I feel like google plus is what happens when tumblr and facebook have babies who take steroids. People shy away from it though because it can be a bit daunting to use at first. You cant just make a profile and let it sit. It really requires you to *use* it, but if you do I promise you'll love it!
Feb 01 13 11:40 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Hm, thanks so much! smile

So... I take it that if I have a Gmail account (I do), I basically already "signed up," and I just need to figure it out from there?

How, then, do I actually find people from there? Is it pretty self-explanatory?

I just don't understand how I'm doing everything that people say you're supposed to do (following/liking people you want to work with, schmoozing up to them in comments and whatnot, etc.), but it's just not working....

And any idea about fan bases? I have a bunch of friends and 2-3 REALLY enthusiastic guys as a fan base so far... thoughts? smile

Thanks again!

Edit: Oops! That *was* about fan bases! smile I guess, then, what I should have asked at the end was "what about getting paid work and published, beyond submissions?"
Feb 01 13 11:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,153
Portland, Oregon, US


There's "passive" and "active" networking.

Examples of "passive" networking:  creating a Facebook page, creating an MM profile, creating a blog, creating a Twitter account.  What do these things have in common?  You are expecting your audience to find you.

"Active" networking means that you are going out & finding your audience.  Some examples:
...  Use the "browse" menu feature above, find like-minded local photographers
     and inviting them out for a cup of coffee.

...  Having a business card that you can leave with every industry contact you meet.

...  Volunteering at events where you are likely to meet photographers & other models.

...  Becoming a resource to your local community.  For example:  compile a list of
     available locations; compile & share a list of available people & resources;
     announce the plans of industry people traveling to your area; share places
     where industry folk can find interesting costumes & wardrobe; etc.

...  And so on.  Be creative & be patient.


Some notes:
...  Network locally; I'm half a world away & am not likely to hire you.
...  You are not really networking if you are sitting at home on your computer.
Feb 01 13 11:51 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Raven-Lily
Posts: 77
Eastbourne, England, United Kingdom


My biggest fan base comes from Deviant Art, I have photographers in america asking if i ever travel overseas for paid work.

definitely a good place to network amongst other artists
Feb 01 13 11:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marc Damon
Posts: 6,562
Biloxi, Mississippi, US


This topic would make for a fantastic article written by Chris (Sophistocles) or someone else who really knows their stuff when it comes to getting page hits, high search engine rankings, etc.

OP, you have less than 1000 forum posts over almost 5 years on MM. When I started posting regularly in the forums, my page hits, tags, comments, etc increased substantially.
Feb 01 13 12:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Wow, thanks for all the advice, everyone! I agree that it would be phenomenal to read an article on this by someone in-the-know... maybe we can petition? wink

Meanwhile, I'm considering DeviantArt, and have started up my Google+ (Shameless self-promotion: https://plus.google.com/102697110385406057397/posts ). Looknsee, your information has been so helpful to me already; it really is finally starting to make sense. Those are the kinds of answers I'm looking for. I'm going to do business cards, ask my boyfriend (a photographer) to help me get into events in the area and so on, and will likely be signing up for a local version of MM.

You guys rock. smile

Meanwhile, more info is better, for me and for others who will later search this, so by all means, MM, please keep on posting.
Feb 01 13 01:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marc Damon
Posts: 6,562
Biloxi, Mississippi, US


Rachel-Elise  wrote:
Wow, thanks for all the advice, everyone! I agree that it would be phenomenal to read an article on this by someone in-the-know... maybe we can petition? wink

snipped...

Meanwhile, more info is better, for me and for others who will later search this, so by all means, MM, please keep on posting.

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … st17982511

I'm not saying any advice given in this thread is bad, but remember that not everyone is qualified to give advice on a subject. Just because you read it online, doesn't mean it's true!

Feb 01 13 01:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Oh trust me, I know that! wink I'm just really interested to hear how others have succeeded in this area... hopefully we can get someone to tell us officially! smile

Oh, and THANK YOU for asking!!!
Feb 01 13 02:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,864
Olivet, Michigan, US


Rachel-Elise  wrote:
Hm, thanks so much! smile

So... I take it that if I have a Gmail account (I do), I basically already "signed up," and I just need to figure it out from there?

How, then, do I actually find people from there? Is it pretty self-explanatory?

I just don't understand how I'm doing everything that people say you're supposed to do (following/liking people you want to work with, schmoozing up to them in comments and whatnot, etc.), but it's just not working....

And any idea about fan bases? I have a bunch of friends and 2-3 REALLY enthusiastic guys as a fan base so far... thoughts? smile

Thanks again!

Edit: Oops! That *was* about fan bases! smile I guess, then, what I should have asked at the end was "what about getting paid work and published, beyond submissions?"

You decided to be a glamour model THIS WEEK.  You haven't yet decided the details of what you're willing to shoot.  It's not overly surprising that you don't have crowds of people seeking to shoot you yet.

Start a new account, put up pictures in a bikini and an "implied" shot or two.  You'll have HUNDREDS of offers.  Probably 2 or 3 of them suitable.

Feb 01 13 02:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Art of the nude wrote:
You decided to be a glamour model THIS WEEK.  You haven't yet decided the details of what you're willing to shoot.  It's not overly surprising that you don't have crowds of people seeking to shoot you yet.

Start a new account, put up pictures in a bikini and an "implied" shot or two.  You'll have HUNDREDS of offers.  Probably 2 or 3 of them suitable.

xD

Feb 01 13 03:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,883
Detroit, Michigan, US


Most of my fans come from Zivity, and then DeviantArt, and then a couple from my FB page. The real key with fans is interacting with them, and unfortunately, that can take a lot of time. When I was doing the best with fans and making the most on Zivity via my fan base, I was spending a minimum of two hours a day networking on that site alone.

It also means updating statuses and sharing new photos quite often. Statuses need to be updated daily if not multiple times a day with relevant things (not just "I went to the grocery store"). New photos should be shared a couple times a week at least in my experience. And they do not have to be high quality. Even just fun and sexy Instagram shots can do it.

It also helps to figure out what your strengths are or why people might want to be your fan. Some examples might be: tattoos, long hair, brightly colored hair, large or small breasts, pubic hair, certain types of wardrobe like latex, fetish wear, etc, awesome make-up skills, feet, etc. For example, in my case I have a base of fans centered around my long hair, a few who really like my pubic hair, then some who like my bum, and also some who really like my style of posing, and a good many who love the fact that I take photos, especially nude photos, of myself.

I stay connected with my fans and send them goodies too, usually if they buy me something from my wishlist or vote for me on Zivity (which pays me according to those votes). Right now I have a little stack of thank you cards and two packages waiting to be shipped to fans tomorrow. I always send hand embellished thank you cards with a handwritten note. This time the cards have little koi fish made of fancy cardstock paper in them. One time I sent out little paper lotus flowers with a little piece of prose about what the lotus means to me. I also shoot exclusive sets for my fans, and so on. Obviously, following what I do exactly is not going to work for any one else most likely, but those are just examples of how I stay connected.
Feb 01 13 09:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Glamour Scott
Posts: 1
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


If you want to get a huge fan base and keep them coming back for more, you will want to keep your portfolio/facebook updated with new high quality work.  This will most certainly include searching out talented photographers and doing trade work to keep a constant stream of new images being posted.  This will get paying clients excited to hire you.
Feb 01 13 09:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Thanks, everyone, for the continuous flow of ideas! I appreciate it so much. smile
Feb 02 13 09:52 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Dekilah wrote:
The real key with fans is interacting with them...

Yeah, that's another thing I was wondering about. I do have a small handful of fans who I don't know in real life, and while most of them are pretty chillax, I do have one guy in particular who likes to, I don't know... try to chat with me all day on Facebook, and so on. He tried to get my phone number (via asking if I have a "Whatsapp"). Obviously, I didn't give it to him. (I said I didn't have "Whatsapp.") I love the idea of networking with fans, but I'm wondering how much is too much (like, if this guy visited my area, I'd be surprised if he DIDN'T try and meet up with me while here), and what the best way is to nip it in the bud. (I understand that he's probably just enthusiastic, but I do know that there will be really weird ones in the future.)

Feb 02 13 09:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Facebook, website, blog, Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram, MM forums...

You need to use them all like the worst social network whore you can imagine, and then some! big_smile




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
Feb 02 13 10:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
I M N Photography
Posts: 2,329
New York, New York, US


Rachel-Elise  wrote:
...
I don't really understand the specifics of how to successfully network or how to build my fan base...
...

Networking is about creating and maintaining business connections.  You have to do your homework, and find the people and places where you can meet these people. The internet is fine, and large fanbases sound great, but if few of those fans are in your area, or likely to hire you, then you won't have any revenue.

Rachel-Elise  wrote:
...
...would anyone be able to give me a little bit of a heads-up as to what I'm doing wrong, or, since this isn't the critique section and that might not be acceptable, how to do these things successfully? I'd really appreciate it. smile

You really didn't provide a lot of detail regarding what you are actually doing, but if you are doing some of the following, then you are on the right track:

1. Work with individuals that have solid wotk, and just as importantly, solid business connections.
     Photographers that shoot lots of glamour on a TFP basis are fine, if they work for a print publication with decent circulation. Ezines not so much.

2. RELIABILITY - ALWAYS, and I can't emphasize this enough) be PROFESSIONAL when you schedule a session. I don't mean that you should figure out creative ways to cancel shoots. You will quickly build a reputation for unreliability, if you are careless in your planning and/or commitments.

3. BE PREPARED - Carry makeup, extra underwear (solids and nude colors), hairbrush, heels, flats, etc. Anything you can carry in a tote bag (not a suitcase), which you can use to prevent wasted time, if one of the artists or wardrobe people are running late. You shouldn't have a full set of wardrobe, bit having leggings, and some makeup might rescue a shoot fron unexpected disaster.

Everything else is commonsense, but you have a lot of control over what I listed, than most things.

In a lot of cases your reputation precedes your ability to network properly, and a good reference based on real business relationships are worth morr than any number of "likes."

Feb 02 13 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
Facebook, website, blog, Tumblr, Twitter, Instagram, MM forums...

You need to use them all like the worst social network whore you can imagine, and then some! big_smile




Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Holy crap. I'm gonna need a manager! xD wink

Wondering... does anyone know of an app or something for Chrome that allows me to update everything at the same time--FB, Twitter, G+, blah blah blah..... I don't have an iphone; I have a Nokia that is similar to a Blackberry. Not sure if that matters.

Feb 02 13 10:46 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


MnPhoto wrote:

Rachel-Elise  wrote:
...
I don't really understand the specifics of how to successfully network or how to build my fan base...
...

Networking is about creating and maintaining business connections.  You have to do your homework, and find the people and places where you can meet these people. The internet is fine, and large fanbases sound great, but if few of those fans are in your area, or likely to hire you, then you won't have any revenue.


You really didn't provide a lot of detail regarding what you are actually doing, but if you are doing some of the following, then you are on the right track:

1. Work with individuals that have solid wotk, and just as importantly, solid business connections.
     Photographers that shoot lots of glamour on a TFP basis are fine, if they work for a print publication with decent circulation. Ezines not so much.

2. RELIABILITY - ALWAYS, and I can't emphasize this enough) be PROFESSIONAL when you schedule a session. I don't mean that you should figure out creative ways to cancel shoots. You will quickly build a reputation for unreliability, if you are careless in your planning and/or commitments.

3. BE PREPARED - Carry makeup, extra underwear (solids and nude colors), hairbrush, heels, flats, etc. Anything you can carry in a tote bag (not a suitcase), which you can use to prevent wasted time, if one of the artists or wardrobe people are running late. You shouldn't have a full set of wardrobe, bit having leggings, and some makeup might rescue a shoot fron unexpected disaster.

Everything else is commonsense, but you have a lot of control over what I listed, than most things.

In a lot of cases your reputation precedes your ability to network properly, and a good reference based on real business relationships are worth morr than any number of "likes."

The business connections thing is something I really have to work on. I am, and always have been, reliable, and of course I always bring my "model bag" full of emergency stuff. wink

Thanks for the tips!

Feb 02 13 02:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KC King
Posts: 848
Brea, California, US


Twitter... It's all about guys sharing your pics with their friends.  There's  #tittytuesday, #asswednesday, #thongthursday then Playboy has #friskyfriday and of course #sexysaturday and #sexysunday.  You'll need alot more pics and it seems that guys love self pics the most. Also share some personal video via Mobypicture or Keek... You have to stay active and interactive with your followers.
Feb 02 13 02:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,883
Detroit, Michigan, US


Rachel-Elise  wrote:

Yeah, that's another thing I was wondering about. I do have a small handful of fans who I don't know in real life, and while most of them are pretty chillax, I do have one guy in particular who likes to, I don't know... try to chat with me all day on Facebook, and so on. He tried to get my phone number (via asking if I have a "Whatsapp"). Obviously, I didn't give it to him. (I said I didn't have "Whatsapp.") I love the idea of networking with fans, but I'm wondering how much is too much (like, if this guy visited my area, I'd be surprised if he DIDN'T try and meet up with me while here), and what the best way is to nip it in the bud. (I understand that he's probably just enthusiastic, but I do know that there will be really weird ones in the future.)

You cannot please everyone. And you have to figure out your line and draw it. I purposely only share my fan page with my fans, not my profile. Occasionally they will find me, and that is fine. I add the ones I know a bit who are okay, and just ignore the others. If anyone every asked me about it I would just tell them that I prefer to keep my modeling stuff on my fan page and use my other page for more local stuff and that I keep them separate so I do not get confused. In the case of your situation, I would just say that you prefer talking online and that you really do not use your phone much or something. In my case I can definitely say that truthfully because I rarely use my phone to talk on it.

I tend to avoid giving out my specific location as well. I have a PO box for gifts and such. The only time I tell them specific places I will be is at my art events and such because I know the events are super crowded and I will never be alone. Plus I co-manage the events and if I was upset or someone was hassling me, people would take notice and step in. I have had people see prints of me at events and once they find out it is me they get a little creepy. The one time a guy was following me around I had two different guy friends (plus my boyfriend) say they could have him removed if I needed them to. Outside of a fairly situation like that, I would just avoid meeting fans.

I also treat my fans like friends. I ask how they are doing, keep track of any issues they are having (many of them are looking for someone to vent to or confide in), and so on. I pay attention to what they like and I shoot more of that. I also do little shoutouts to them like "Someone just made my day by voting 20 times on my new set!" I rarely put a name because many of them like to stay a bit anonymous to others, but I share enough that they know I am talking about them.

Feb 02 13 08:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,329
Salem, Oregon, US


i think the old-fashioned way still works. look for opportunities to get out into the world and meet people. let everyone know you are a model looking for work. volunteer for things (or buy your way into things) where potential clients might hang out.

things like workshops and meet&greets can put you in touch with some photographers.

it's all about who you know. but you have to know the right people. who are the movers and shakers that can get you work?

some of my zivity models have wishlists and their fans buy them stuff. kind of like a virtual strip club.
Feb 02 13 08:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Erika Muse
Posts: 284
Raleigh, North Carolina, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
...  You are not really networking if you are sitting at home on your computer.

This is my next Facebook status smile

Feb 02 13 08:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Dekilah wrote:

You cannot please everyone. And you have to figure out your line and draw it. I purposely only share my fan page with my fans, not my profile. Occasionally they will find me, and that is fine. I add the ones I know a bit who are okay, and just ignore the others. If anyone every asked me about it I would just tell them that I prefer to keep my modeling stuff on my fan page and use my other page for more local stuff and that I keep them separate so I do not get confused. In the case of your situation, I would just say that you prefer talking online and that you really do not use your phone much or something. In my case I can definitely say that truthfully because I rarely use my phone to talk on it.

I tend to avoid giving out my specific location as well. I have a PO box for gifts and such. The only time I tell them specific places I will be is at my art events and such because I know the events are super crowded and I will never be alone. Plus I co-manage the events and if I was upset or someone was hassling me, people would take notice and step in. I have had people see prints of me at events and once they find out it is me they get a little creepy. The one time a guy was following me around I had two different guy friends (plus my boyfriend) say they could have him removed if I needed them to. Outside of a fairly situation like that, I would just avoid meeting fans.

I also treat my fans like friends. I ask how they are doing, keep track of any issues they are having (many of them are looking for someone to vent to or confide in), and so on. I pay attention to what they like and I shoot more of that. I also do little shoutouts to them like "Someone just made my day by voting 20 times on my new set!" I rarely put a name because many of them like to stay a bit anonymous to others, but I share enough that they know I am talking about them.

How much do I love you? You are so awesome. smile Next time I'm in MI, I might look you up for a coffee, if you don't mind and aren't busy. wink *creeper fan alert*

Yeah, I NEVER add them to my profile, only my fan page (in fact, I don't even add work people I'm not friends with to my profile, but that's just me), but I get a lot more friend requests than fan page adds. I told a few guys, just to try it, to see me at my fan page instead, and it only worked once for maybe the 4 people I tried it on. (Incidentally, it was the same guy.) Wasn't sure if it was a conceited-sounding thing to say or not. :-P

Also, part of the reason I'm "sitting at home on the computer" instead of networking right now (shoutout to all of you smarties wink ) is because I have a knee injury, and am therefore unable to shoot at the moment, unfortunately. Trust me, I'm backed up on shoots that I need to DO, already! wink My boyfriend is a photographer, and he will tell me when there are events, but they can be few and far-between. Obviously, I'll be looking for more industry professionals to help me with stuff like this, but one step at a time! smile (I know... "excuses, excuses." I do wanna get out there IRL and network, though, thanks to all of you!)

Feb 02 13 11:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,949
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


A few tips to boost networking and fan support:

1) Get a unique name. Get a website with your unique name that forwards to your FB page.
2) Label all your photos on the web with your name
3) Work with the best photographers to get great images on a regular basis. Post images at least twice a month, even if they are reposts of older images.
4) Make a list of 20 top photographers around the world and make it a priority to contact them and arrange shoots.  These people will also be a conduit to getting published.
5) Make friends and trade FB likes with other top glamour models around the world.
6) There are 500+ glamour girls websites and contests around the world-get your photos on them as often as possible.
7) Offer signed photos and other gifts for fans to purchase.
8) Investigate your options for Playboy, Page 3, Zoo, FHM, and Maxim publication.
9) Plan trips to Europe and the US to work with the right photographers and magazines.
10) There are web companies that will boost your likes and fans for a fee.  Use these services in moderation to boost the perception of your fame.
11) Work with a video team to do a model feature or BTS video that will highlight your personality, successes, portfolio, and social media.

Good Luck-
Scott
Feb 03 13 07:50 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Loki Studio wrote:
A few tips to boost networking and fan support:

1) Get a unique name. Get a website with your unique name that forwards to your FB page.
2) Label all your photos on the web with your name
3) Work with the best photographers to get great images on a regular basis. Post images at least twice a month, even if they are reposts of older images.
4) Make a list of 20 top photographers around the world and make it a priority to contact them and arrange shoots.  These people will also be a conduit to getting published.
5) Make friends and trade FB likes with other top glamour models around the world.
6) There are 500+ glamour girls websites and contests around the world-get your photos on them as often as possible.
7) Offer signed photos and other gifts for fans to purchase.
8) Investigate your options for Playboy, Page 3, Zoo, FHM, and Maxim publication.
9) Plan trips to Europe and the US to work with the right photographers and magazines.
10) There are web companies that will boost your likes and fans for a fee.  Use these services in moderation to boost the perception of your fame.
11) Work with a video team to do a model feature or BTS video that will highlight your personality, successes, portfolio, and social media.

Good Luck-
Scott

Thanks! By the way, I have family in your area! smile

Feb 03 13 08:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
orias
Posts: 5,032
Tampa, Florida, US


twoharts wrote:
some of my zivity models have wishlists and their fans buy them stuff. kind of like a virtual strip club.

lol smile

Feb 03 13 08:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Photo
Posts: 4,144
New York, New York, US


Rachel-Elise  wrote:
Alright, I know that this is a pretty lame question... please don't give me too much flack. smile

Everyone says that the key to being a successful, paid model without agency representation is networking, networking, networking.. and building a fan base (for glamour-type models, which is the direction I've decided this week that I'm going in). The thing is, silly of me or not, I don't really understand the specifics of how to successfully network or how to build my fan base... apparently. I mean, I have a FB fan page and Twitter, I follow people I admire and would like to work with, and so on.

If you're in a good mood this evening/afternoon/morning, would anyone be able to give me a little bit of a heads-up as to what I'm doing wrong, or, since this isn't the critique section and that might not be acceptable, how to do these things successfully? I'd really appreciate it. smile

Thanks in advance!

We are all in the same business - making viral photos.

You can message and meet a bunch of people every day, or you can make a photo that gets passed around by thousands of people.

Figure out what you can do to be in photos that go viral repeatedly and you'll have a career.

Feb 03 13 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


MC Photo wrote:
Figure out what you can do to be in photos that go viral repeatedly and you'll have a career.

LOVE.

Feb 04 13 03:12 am  Link  Quote 
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