Photographer
Charger Photography
Posts: 1731
San Antonio, Texas, US
Paige Morgan wrote:
Also noble...but that has other potentially problematic implications.
For example, models who've shot faceless nudes or fine art work they'd rather not have a name attached to.
The photographer would be unable to give the credit when asked, without breaking his agreement with the model.
Will the suspicious types then jump to the conclusion he must be hoarding his models and want no one else to shoot them? Once again... read .. it wasn't about photographers crediting models... The OP asked about models crediting photographers. LOL 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
Paige Morgan wrote:
Also noble...but that has other potentially problematic implications.
For example, models who've shot faceless nudes or fine art work they'd rather not have a name attached to.
The photographer would be unable to give the credit when asked, without breaking his agreement with the model. I would hope that people would have enough brains that if they are asked to not disclose, that they would not post that they will disclose upon request.
That said, there is a difference between not posting a name and not disclosing a name.
That said, I don't like the idea of needing to dumb things down for the least mentally skilled among us.
Photographer
TrianglePhoto
Posts: 582
Chicago, Illinois, US
George Ruge wrote:
Isn't networking what this place is about? Every member should credit any member involved in the creation of an image posted here on MM. I shoot mostly nudes - it isn't unusual for a model to request the images be uncredited, even on TF shoots...
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4060
New York, New York, US
Charger Photography wrote:
I'm not being negative.... If you actually read my quotes.. I was saying moast of the time models use their phones to upload pics and either is hard or not available to credit..... You on the other way came on saying stuff about MM being a piss poor place and agency crap... LOL You did not read, apparently.
We can continue this conversation when you read and understand the my entire first post. Do I need to retype it in smaller sentences to not have you pull a "too long, didn't read" and jumping to insult tossing ALL CAPS conclusions?
Please do not invent statements that I did not type.
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
George Ruge wrote:
Isn't networking what this place is about? Every member should credit any member involved in the creation of an image posted here on MM. Charger Photography wrote:
+100 No, Paige was 100% correct in her comment that not everyone wishes to be credited.
If someone does not want to be credited, that request should be honored and respected.
That is part of the problem, it is difficult to tell if the absence of a credit is on purpose or out of laziness, ignorance, or some greater "plan" to keep information secret.
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4060
New York, New York, US
Charger Photography wrote:
Once again... read .. it wasn't about photographers crediting models... The OP asked about models crediting photographers. LOL And whatever "rules" people are holding to should apply equally to all parties concerned. You can't address the issue of a model not crediting a photographer in a way he/she finds appropriate, without also addressing the opposite side.
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4060
New York, New York, US
DougBPhoto wrote:
No, Paige was 100% correct in her comment that not everyone wishes to be credited.
If someone does not want to be credited, that request should be honored and respected.
That is part of the problem, it is difficult to tell if the absence of a credit is on purpose or out of laziness, ignorance, or some greater "plan" to keep information secret. I think you just encapsulated my issue with some of the statements being made in this thread.
By trying to impose a personal set of one size fits all "rules" on crediting as universal truth, guessing or assuming at reasons.....it's reductive, and somewhat lazy.
Ask the source. Do some research. Individual cases vary.
I don't think it is fair or respectful to start hurling negative names about someone based on the information you can't be bothered to find out the correct source or reason for.
This site is all about networking, so why not communicate with your fellow members?
Photographer
Quay Lude
Posts: 6386
Madison, Wisconsin, US
Charger Photography wrote:
Once again... read .. it wasn't about photographers crediting models... The OP asked about models crediting photographers. LOL You are lucky to have Paige responding to your posts. Do yourself a favor. Unbundle your panties. Take a deep breath and reread it all. And then, say thanks Paige. Because she gave that to you for free. You can't take a class at your technical college and get that. Seriously.
Model
retiredanddeleted
Posts: 3561
Azul, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Paige Morgan wrote:
A noble idea, but then you run the risk of assumptions of bad blood or diva behavior being the cause for that request, especially here on Mayhem, where folks love to damn with faint evidence 
That precise mentality is already going on in this thread, and I think a "credit withheld by request" would only make those prone to witchhunts and gossip that much worse. True true, sometimes I see models with some credited shots and some not. That's fine.
But some of them have ZERO credits, and thats when I'm kinda like... 
Model
retiredanddeleted
Posts: 3561
Azul, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Cuica Cafezinho wrote:
You are lucky to have Paige responding to your posts. Do yourself a favor. Unbundle your panties. Take a deep breath and reread it all. And then, say thanks Paige. Because she gave that to you for free. You can't take a class at your technical college and get that. Seriously. 
Yeah this thing is going towards a trainwreck
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
MissLaurelle wrote:
Yeah this thing is going towards a trainwreck ![https://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIzaFwBDD8qz-9bVxK8NCk6XoRRPLL3EgfzRlGl13G9aBdEeog4g]()
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4060
New York, New York, US
MissLaurelle wrote:
True true, sometimes I see models with some credited shots and some not. That's fine.
But some of them have ZERO credits, and thats when I'm kinda like... The only check I generally make when someone has zero credits is a quick image search run to make sure the images are not stolen/it isn't a fake profile.
Anything else I might need to know regarding that issue (for example I need references before using a model on one of the days I'm wearing my MUA hat), I ask them for directly.
Cagey/ no answer to my message? No references to provide? Piss poor references? Shitty general attitude? List of umpteen demands?
That's when I break out the and sometimes also the :0
Photographer
Quay Lude
Posts: 6386
Madison, Wisconsin, US
MissLaurelle wrote:
Yeah this thing is going towards a trainwreck I didn't intend to contribute towards that. There is some really good stuff in here.
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8619
Berkeley, California, US
I think everyone should credit unless MM is malfunctioning.
Usually when MM is malfunctioning, I type the MM#/credit elsewhere, like in the title or copyright.
Photographer
D-Light
Posts: 629
Newcastle, Limerick, Ireland
I agree fully. I always credit the model, how else would other photographers know who she is?
Most models don't credit the photographer, in my experience but many do recommend the photographer on their profile page.
Worst I've come across is one model who didn't credit me for the picture but claimed copyright for herself.
Model
JadeDRed
Posts: 5620
London, England, United Kingdom
DougBPhoto wrote:
I understand what you're saying and I am sure that does happen.
In that case, I would think they could say something like "Credit withheld by request" or "Name withheld by request", that way it is clear that the lack of credit is intentional. Honestly, if someone is going to go to great lengths to imagine some evil, underhanded intent behind something so simple as not filling in credits, i'm not going to waste time doing something i see as utterly pointless to appease them as a) I doubt that will stop the inventing another, underhanded reason i wrote that instead and b) why do i want to be dealing with people that paranoid, inteferring and negative anyway?
Besides you cant do that in the credit field, only the copyright field, and to be honest that doesn't really seem appropriate to me (credit and copyright are not the same thing).
Model
JadeDRed
Posts: 5620
London, England, United Kingdom
Paige Morgan wrote:
A noble idea, but then you run the risk of assumptions of bad blood or diva behavior being the cause for that request, especially here on Mayhem, where folks love to damn with faint evidence
That precise mentality is already going on in this thread, and I think a "credit withheld by request" would only make those prone to witchhunts and gossip that much worse. +1
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
JadeDRed wrote:
If its not your photo its not your problem.
I don't worry about what other people do when its none of my business. Maybe they have a good reason. Maybe not. Still not my business.
If i ever forgot to credit a photographer they are welcome to message me and i will sort it out straight away. Probably happens quite a lot with the credits as most people i work with i dont meet on here and am therefore unaware of their profiles. +1
While it's frustrating not to view all parties in a photo, it's hardly the end of the world. There are many reasons why someone doesn't credit, unfortunately some people skip A-Y and go straight to Zed!
Darren
www.facebook.com/darrenbradephotography
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 3351
London, England, United Kingdom
Charger Photography wrote:
It isn't that big of a deal....LMFAO.... Models want pretty pics... thats it... if they post them and don't credit you make a list "My work on models port" simple...
If the models has the look I want .. her crediting habits are not going to affect me.
I keep asking .... why common sense goes away on MM ? I've had this kind of list for some time, good advice.
Darren
www.facebook.com/darrenbradephotography
Photographer
KA Style
Posts: 1583
Syracuse, New York, US
MM is not important enough. I just dont care... In the realm of my life and business MM sits at the very bottom. My clients are not here nor is a model in my area ever going to pay me for a shoot. So I could really care less. I care about whats on my website or getting credit where it counts. Beside the fact this site is dead!
What many seem to do is create a list and list it as my work in other profiles.
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5214
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
MissLaurelle wrote:
Hey guys!
Is it just me, or a lot of models on MM won't do the modelmayhem credits with the # thingy.
And it's not because the photographer isn't on MM, no.. I've seen many photographers have the same shot as the model credited and all and the model have no info given on hers.
I personally find it frustrating cause I usually want to know who shot the picture. But I also find it kind of a lack of respect?
thoughts...?
Edit; They also don't credit on their MM page (which is obviously not necessary, but if they didn't credit the shot... you'd think they'd mention the photog somewhere?)
I'm huge of crediting. It's a bitch.
It goes for photographers not crediting their models too.
For me, unforgivable on what is predominately a networking site. There are photographers local to me that don't list their MM models and it makes it so hard to track them done. I've even tried messaging them but to no avail.
Photographer
Shy L
Posts: 584
Burlington, Vermont, US
Charger Photography wrote:
It isn't that big of a deal....LMFAO.... Models want pretty pics... thats it... if they post them and don't credit you make a list "My work on models port" simple...
If the models has the look I want .. her crediting habits are not going to affect me.
I keep asking .... why common sense goes away on MM ? I'm not going to make a list. If I choose to work with someone despite the fact that they have never credited a photographer anywhere, I have accepted that I will not get credit in their port. The work that I want to represent me is already in my portfolio.
In the instance that I got burned, I thought that maybe her previous photographers had just not watermarked and she was new so I brushed it off. After I sent her the final edits (high res & watermarked web size) she heavily edited the high res, resized it and uploaded that. It was edited in the same fashion as all the others in her portfolio. (and yes she did sign a contract saying she could not edit or alter the images in any way)
Should I give others who have similar red flags the benefit of the doubt? Maybe. Have I missed out on shooting with some great models? Maybe, but honestly I mostly work with newbies so I'm not losing sleep over it. I am avoiding models whose portfolios show work with actual photographers but do not have any watermarks and do not credit any photographers. And obviously the ones whose portfolios are entirely edited in the same manner but that's not really relevant to this thread.
Photographer
Eric212Grapher
Posts: 3770
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
Why is this such a big deal? If you insist on being credited, put it in the contract. Or smear your MM# across the model's face, then you'll have no fear of your works appearing without credit.
You can make a list "My works in others portfolios" and tag yourself. Your list will appear under the image in their portfolio.
Photographer
Eric212Grapher
Posts: 3770
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
Charger Photography wrote:
It isn't that big of a deal....LMFAO.... Models want pretty pics... thats it... if they post them and don't credit you make a list "My work on models port" simple...
If the models has the look I want .. her crediting habits are not going to affect me.
I keep asking .... why common sense goes away on MM ? +1 or +48, I didn't read all the posts.
Common sense is not so common these days. On MM or away from it.
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 8463
Imperial, California, US
TrianglePhoto wrote:
I shoot mostly nudes - it isn't unusual for a model to request the images be uncredited, even on TF shoots... Someone's personal wishes should always be granted, of course. I've shot girls who've asked that their shots not be posted on the Internet, and they never will.
Model
JWest
Posts: 1000
Asheville, North Carolina, US
I agree completely.
I credit everyone involved on both the image and the credits section of my profile. I think it's a sign of respect. If you liked their work enough to showcase, then give them the credit and recognition they deserve. I don't like not being credited on a photographer's page, therefore I try my best to make sure I do it.
Model
Nicole Nu
Posts: 3981
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
There's been SO many times I've been looking in a models portfolio and see an awesome image and what to know who the photographer is and they aren't credited.
Sucks, so I know how you feel.
Model
Lanna_
Posts: 831
Seattle, Washington, US
I don't care if I get credited or not.
Credits are kind of obnoxious. I used to keep a running list in the credits box, but after well over 100 shoots and many collaborations with MUA/H, stylists, and designers the section got so long. I just put it in a word file that I can send upon a photographer's request.
The whole "number thing" is a step I don't always get to when I'm uploading several pictures that have full teams. I'll try and type in the caption box usually. Maybe a photo will get lost in the upload shuffle and I'll forget to stick anything on it at all.
I have noticed that some area models will list or comment my pictures, then run down my credits list (which I've since removed) and contact most everyone I've worked with. I think that's a form of bad manners. Do your own damn networking. I'm not a template for you.
Photographer
Risen Phoenix Photo
Posts: 3779
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Who really gives a shit. Credit me don't credit me. People know my style and they know my work whether it is credited or not.
The way some of you carry on here you should be ashamed of yourselves. MM has a reputation of being snarky in the forums. I wish all of you with 4000 plus posts would give it a rest and quit trying to rhetorically measure your dicks with your back and forth slams.
Also I thought this site was about networking not trying to break people down . I think a little civility is due.
IMHO
RISEN Phoenix
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
That's what watermarks are for...
Model
JWest
Posts: 1000
Asheville, North Carolina, US
RKD Photographic wrote:
That's what watermarks are for... Not everyone watermarks 
Model
IDiivil
Posts: 4615
Los Angeles, California, US
I know some models, signed with agencies, who have told me, "Why does it matter who I shot with? People are hiring me for my look, and that is what my portfolio shows. That is what should matter."
I personally don't know agency standards at all, but aren't all images on an agency website usually creditless also? I assume these agency models are just echoing that same tactic then in their portfolio as, in their eyes, credits don't matter - just the modeling.
Model
Lanna_
Posts: 831
Seattle, Washington, US
IDiivil wrote:
I know some models, signed with agencies, who have told me, "Why does it matter who I shot with? People are hiring me for my look, and that is what my portfolio shows. That is what should matter."
I personally don't know agency standards at all, but aren't all images on an agency website usually creditless also? I assume these agency models are just echoing that same tactic then in their portfolio as, in their eyes, credits don't matter - just the modeling. Yep. No credits. Absolutely no watermarks.
The only text allowed would be from a tearsheet.
If MM modeling and agency modeling were a Venn Diagram, I'm not quite sure there'd be much overlap between the circles.
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 18465
Orlando, Florida, US
I don't care if they don't credit I forget all the time since working with so many people and looking for their numbers I find it a pain in the ass because I admit I am lazy.
Photographer
Herman Surkis
Posts: 10856
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
MissLaurelle wrote:
Hey guys!
Is it just me, or a lot of models on MM won't do the modelmayhem credits with the # thingy.
And it's not because the photographer isn't on MM, no.. I've seen many photographers have the same shot as the model credited and all and the model have no info given on hers.
I personally find it frustrating cause I usually want to know who shot the picture. But I also find it kind of a lack of respect?
thoughts...?
Edit; They also don't credit on their MM page (which is obviously not necessary, but if they didn't credit the shot... you'd think they'd mention the photog somewhere?)
I'm huge of crediting. \
Love you!!!
Ok, I'm done.
Model
Melodye Joy
Posts: 545
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
Time, human nature and honest mistakes come in to play, but ....
I try my best to keep up with and credit those I have worked with, however, I can't always keep with the times and go back to an image years after, just to note someone has finally joined or that I have finally run across someones MM page.
I do credit everyone on my main portfolio page(s) as well, so that even if I change up my images (updating the portfolio), they are still easily found to those who need/want them.
If someone has a website or page, I try to include that in my LINKS on my official site, which actually needs to be updated and transferred to the latest layout...
but..as a model, I do try? ...dunno if that helps you at all though!
Photographer
Carl Blum Photography
Posts: 549
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Most of the Time, I get paid to Shoot, I could care less what happens to a photo after that.
If a Model has contacted me for TFP, in my agreement, Crediting, Watermarking, Copyright and who owns the photo is covered. If she has a MM account, I check for crediting beforehand.
The Photos in my Port are credited whenever the model has an account on here, that is just plain respect and good manners.
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
Jojo West wrote:
Not everyone watermarks ...and this is why they should
With regard non-watermarked imagery or tear-sheets, that's usually the result of paid work for which the photographer was recompensed accordingly.
Model
Goodbye4
Posts: 2532
Los Angeles, California, US
I could care less whether someone credits their images or not.
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 4810
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Orca Bay Images wrote:
it's not just models. I've seen photographers who flat-out refuse to promote the models. Which just shows how monumentally stupid some people are.
When I see a portfolio of someone who has been around long enough to generate some credits but there are no credits, I take it to mean that they are either incompetent or just on MM as a vanity trip. Either way, I am not interested in working with them.
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