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Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


I'm not sure if there are rules against this at all, so I'd figure I'd ask.

In a nutshell, I've been sewing literally since I could comprehend picking up a needle a thread, and I now have an online store. Recently, I've been designing lingerie (yes I am 16, and yes, my parents know) and since I can't model it, I was wondering if it would be inappropriate of me to ask a model in here if she'd mind modeling the pieces for my store.

Is this at all bad or wrong since I'm only 16 and the model would be 18+?

Thanks in advance!
Feb 07 13 04:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
All Yours Photography
Posts: 2,331
Toledo, Ohio, US


First off, I am not a lawyer. 

As far as social niceties, some folks would balk at doing a TF shoot that you are going to use the photos for commercial purposes, but others might be happy to TF, with you acting as the stylist, especially if you let the llama keep the items that she llamas.

You would need to find both a llama and photographer.  A casting call might be the best way to go, rather than asking people directly.  That way those not interested can simply move along.

Though it seems odd, they may prefer that you aren't present at the shoot, just to avoid any possible 2257 problems.
Feb 07 13 04:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ken Marcus Studios
Posts: 8,469
Los Angeles, California, US


I would think it best if your parents were to contact the models and photographers and make the arrangements.

After all . . . . you're asking someone to photograph and model your clothes for your commercial usage online. That sounds like a business arrangement, and you are too young to legally make contracts like that.

Ask your parents if they will work with you on this.

KM
Feb 07 13 04:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Thanks guys, I didn't think about my parents contacting and making arrangements!

And yes, the models will keep the garments.
Feb 07 13 04:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,164
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Shelbiee Savage wrote:
I'm not sure if there are rules against this at all, so I'd figure I'd ask.

In a nutshell, I've been sewing literally since I could comprehend picking up a needle a thread, and I now have an online store. Recently, I've been designing lingerie (yes I am 16, and yes, my parents know) and since I can't llama it, I was wondering if it would be inappropriate of me to ask a llama in here if she'd mind llamaing the pieces for my store.

Is this at all bad or wrong since I'm only 16 and the llama would be 18 ?

Thanks in advance!

The only problem I see is finding a llama and/or photographer who is willing to do the job.  If you are paying them, that problem is pretty much eliminated, too.

  Of course, you'll need your parents, as has been said, because you're too young to sign contracts by yourself but the rest is or should be a piece of cake.

Feb 07 13 04:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:

The only problem I see is finding a model and/or photographer who is willing to do the job.  If you are paying them, that problem is pretty much eliminated, too.

  Of course, you'll need your parents, as has been said, because you're too young to sign contracts by yourself but the rest is or should be a piece of cake.

So you're saying even with payment no one would do it? Phooey/:

Feb 07 13 04:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Shelbiee Savage wrote:

So you're saying even with payment no one would do it? Phooey/:

Oh. Just re-read that. Lol sorry xD

Feb 07 13 04:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alivia Autumn
Posts: 610
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


I agree let your parents handle the business, you just make the clothes.  At least until you turn 18.  I would do it (model for you) if an adult contacted me.  But certainly not a minor if not for legal reasons, for moral reasons I suppose.
Feb 07 13 04:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Alivia Autumn wrote:
I agree let your parents handle the business, you just make the clothes.  At least until you turn 18.  I would do it (model for you) if an adult contacted me.  But certainly not a minor if not for legal reasons, for moral reasons I suppose.

Yeah, I can understand that. Thanks ^_^

Feb 07 13 04:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Now my question is how I'd go about making this contract?
Feb 07 13 05:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


i'm not sure where the problem is...its just underwear...

is it shear or crotch-less?? that might be an issue,
but simple lingerie?

i dont get where the paranoia comes from.

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png
Feb 07 13 05:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 4,164
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Shelbiee Savage wrote:
So you're saying even with payment no one would do it? Phooey/:

I meant that if you pay the people, the problem of finding someone willing to do it would be eliminated because a whole bunch of people would do a whole bunch of things for money, especially if they like doing those things, anyway.

Feb 07 13 05:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24,078
Toulon, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur, France


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
i dont get where the paranoia comes from.

The internet!



I'd shoot it.





Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Feb 07 13 05:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bunny 007
Posts: 274
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


Alivia Autumn wrote:
for moral reasons I suppose.

I haven't been to a public swimming bath for donkey's years, but many baths have (or maybe used to have?) communal changing rooms - same-sex, of course.  Is that now immoral?

Feb 07 13 05:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KeithDewey3
Posts: 1,425
Plattsburg, Missouri, US


I imagine your parents will have no trouble finding models and photographers willing to do what you are proposing.

Models will like have the lingerie and many photographers would like to do it for the credit or just for fun.

I would do it just because it would be fun to help you get a start with your line.
Feb 07 13 05:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Al Cooley Photography
Posts: 450
Allendale, Michigan, US


Shelbiee Savage wrote:
Now my question is how I'd go about making this contract?

why not try a casting call here for both a photog and model. That way you can set up what you are looking for and try TFCD first..

Feb 07 13 05:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Al Cooley Photography wrote:

why not try a casting call here for both a photog and model. That way you can set up what you are looking for and try TFCD first..

That's what I was thinking! ^_^

Feb 07 13 05:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
i'm not sure where the problem is...its just underwear...

is it shear or crotch-less?? that might be an issue,
but simple lingerie?

i dont get where the paranoia comes from.

It definitely covers everything. I'd say the most racy items are ruffle-y boyshorts with a bow on the back of each leg hole. Heh ^_^

Feb 07 13 05:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
i'm not sure where the problem is...its just underwear...

is it shear or crotch-less?? that might be an issue,
but simple lingerie?

i dont get where the paranoia comes from.

I don't think the clothes are the problem. The OP is 16.....doesn't that me she can't contract or properly comply with any applicable bits of the 2257 laws, being a minor?

Feb 07 13 05:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


then id just post a casting for trade in your area.....you don't need no contracts...im sure youll find willing participants..

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png
Feb 07 13 05:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


Paige Morgan wrote:
I don't think the clothes are the problem. The OP is 16.....doesn't that me she can't contract or properly comply with any applicable bits of the 2257 laws, being a minor?

2257???? she's not producing porn...
and why does she need a contract? (rhertorical, she doesnt) for a trade shoot?

hell, she could appear in the images and there wouldnt be anything illegal about it unless it was sexually suggestive..

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png

Feb 07 13 05:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Charger Photography
Posts: 1,717
San Antonio, Texas, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:

2257???? she's not producing porn...
and why does she need a contract? (rhertorical, she doesnt) for a trade shoot?

hell, she could appear in the images and there wouldnt be anything illegal about it,,

LOL... I was thinking the same... 2257???? hahahaha

Feb 07 13 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Uhh... Call me young and ignorant, but what is 2257?
Feb 07 13 05:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Charger Photography
Posts: 1,717
San Antonio, Texas, US


Shelbiee Savage wrote:
Uhh... Call me young and ignorant, but what is 2257?

Documents needed when shooting porn.

Feb 07 13 05:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Broughton
Posts: 2,229
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


i don't see what the big deal is. there's been at least one 16 y/o victoria's secret model and girls way younger than that model underwear for catalogs.
Feb 07 13 05:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Infiniti Creations LLC
Posts: 20
Jacksonville, Florida, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
2257???? she's not producing porn...
and why does she need a contract? (rhertorical, she doesnt) for a trade shoot?

hell, she could appear in the images and there wouldnt be anything illegal about it unless it was sexually suggestive..

Basic principle of contracting, a minor (anyone under the age of 18) cannot be held to a contract, it's easily voidable. Her parents/guardian would best represent her for obvious reasons. Obviously the images will be used and there will be explicit use of those images; having it in writing is the norm, but trust me, all indications is the photographer would be entering into a contract.

Feb 07 13 05:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Charger Photography wrote:

Documents needed when shooting porn.

Oh. Oh my.

Feb 07 13 05:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 7,190
New York, New York, US


Get your parents involved and go for it! Figure out the details with their help. They can google shit if they need more info. Chase your dreams and don't worry so much. You are 16! You need to worry less and keep your parents as part of the program. You will do fine.
Feb 07 13 05:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,408
Salem, Oregon, US


barter with the model. offer them some lingerie in exchange for modeling it for your store. you might need to have them sign more than a self-promotional release, though.

one thing i wonder is if the model could get in trouble for being scantily clad in front of a minor.
Feb 07 13 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


twoharts wrote:
barter with the model. offer them some lingerie in exchange for modeling it for your store. you might need to have them sign more than a self-promotional release, though.

one thing i wonder is if the model could get in trouble for being scantily clad in front of a minor.

Like I said, all the explicit parts will be covered. I really don't think any of it is any worse than some bathing suits you see these days.

Feb 07 13 06:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
L Cowles Photography
Posts: 833
Corona, California, US


Shelbiee Savage wrote:
That's what I was thinking! ^_^

I would think with your situation and drive, you would be able to find a llama and photographer to help out TF.  Sounds like a fun project.

Feb 07 13 06:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Paige Morgan
Posts: 4,058
New York, New York, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
2257???? she's not producing porn...
and why does she need a contract? (rhertorical, she doesnt) for a trade shoot?

hell, she could appear in the images and there wouldnt be anything illegal about it unless it was sexually suggestive..

Commercial work on trade can be a tough sell, as a few folks pointed out earlier. If she ends up needing to hire someone, her parents would need to do it.

I was thinking if it was the more overtly skimpy/sexy stuff, some of the related record keeping might apply, not being a shooter of that kind of content, I was not sure how far any of the 2257 record keeping/all models are over 18 applies just as a CYA precaution.

She has since mentioned it is more cute and pin up ish, so apparently there are no worries there.


To the OP:


Shelbee, you certainly aren't bad or wrong to want to get a lingerie line off the ground. If anything, clothing design is most likely a lot of fun  smile

I'd get your parents to help you with the logistics of the shoots and what needs to be taken care of on the business side.

You just keep on making cute stuff to put your models in. smile

Feb 07 13 06:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


Infiniti Creations LLC wrote:
Basic principle of contracting, a minor (anyone under the age of 18) cannot be held to a contract, it's easily voidable. Her parents/guardian would best represent her for obvious reasons. Obviously the images will be used and there will be explicit use of those images; having it in writing is the norm, but trust me, all indications is the photographer would be entering into a contract.

once again, why does she need a contract?...in florida, she doesn't even need a written llama release.

having been in business and doing commercial work for many years (check my credits) I have never used a contract, for anything other then a wedding (brides can be  crazy).

you people make this way more difficult then it need be...

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png

Feb 07 13 06:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24,078
Toulon, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur, France


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
you people make this way more difficult then it need be...

What would a contract even say?





Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Feb 07 13 06:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alivia Autumn
Posts: 610
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Paige Morgan wrote:

I don't think the clothes are the problem. The OP is 16.....doesn't that me she can't contract or properly comply with any applicable bits of the 2257 laws, being a minor?

This

Feb 07 13 06:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Shelbiee Savage
Posts: 126
Gainesville, Florida, US


Paige Morgan wrote:

Commercial work on trade can be a tough sell, as a few folks pointed out earlier. If she ends up needing to hire someone, her parents would need to do it.

I was thinking if it was the more overtly skimpy/sexy stuff, some of the related record keeping might apply, not being a shooter of that kind of content, I was not sure how far any of the 2257 record keeping/all models are over 18 applies just as a CYA precaution. (Hence the word "might" in the original post)

She has since mentioned it is more cute and pin up ish, so apparently there are no worries there.


To the OP:


Shelbee, you certainly aren't bad or wrong to want to get a lingerie line off the ground. If anything, clothing design is most likely a lot of fun  smile

I'd get your parents to help you with the logistics of the shoots and what needs to be taken care of on the business side.

You just keep on making cute stuff to put your models in. smile

Thank you ^_^

Feb 07 13 06:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Infiniti Creations LLC
Posts: 20
Jacksonville, Florida, US


having been in business and doing commercial work for many years (check my credits) I have never used a contract, for anything other then a wedding (brides can be  crazy).

you people make this way more difficult then it need be...

Not really, contracts are like insurance, never think it's necessary until you need it. Besides, it's a clear recording of final end product and its use by the photographer/model/lingerie designer.  Getting the parents/guardian involved is only common sense.

Feb 07 13 06:43 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 35,812
San Francisco, California, US


Infiniti Creations LLC wrote:
Basic principle of contracting, a minor (anyone under the age of 18) cannot be held to a contract, it's easily voidable. Her parents/guardian would best represent her for obvious reasons. Obviously the images will be used and there will be explicit use of those images; having it in writing is the norm, but trust me, all indications is the photographer would be entering into a contract.

You are way over-thinking this.  The OP locates a photographer willing to shoot the photos and a model willing to pose for the images.  They all agree on a price (even if the price is just that the model keeps the clothes and the photographer gets the images). 

The photographer shoots the photos.  The model signs two releases, one for the photographer and one for the OP.  The photographer delivers the images to the OP along with a usage license. 

Tell me where this mythical contract is that the OP has to sign?  A model release is valid when given to a minor.  Indeed the right to publicity applies to a minor publishing images just as it does for an adult.  She is in Florida and may not even need a release, but if she want one to be safe, her age has nothing to do with it.

The same is true about the grant of a license.  Have a look at the copyright statute.  A minor can own copyright, and by extension, a photographer can license rights to a minor.   Think about it, the law has to permit it.  Otherwise a minor could never legally make a copy of a photo, or paper or anything because they couldn't get permission from the copyright holder.  A license granted to a minor is totally valid and is not a contract with the minor.

You guys are misreading the issues.  The real issue is whether a photographer and a model would be willing to produce the images for the OP.  I can't imagine why they wouldn't with her parent's consent.  This is all one great big yawn.

To the OP, kudos for your work and ambition.  If you have any trouble with this, at all, drop me a line.  I will get a model to pose for you and I will shoot it for free.  I'd like to support your efforts, not make it more difficult.

Feb 07 13 09:50 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 35,812
San Francisco, California, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
you people make this way more difficult then it need be...

Don't they always?

Feb 07 13 09:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Infiniti Creations LLC
Posts: 20
Jacksonville, Florida, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:
The photographer shoots the photos.  The model signs two releases, one for the photographer and one for the OP.  The photographer delivers the images to the OP along with a usage license. 

Tell me where this mythical contract is that the OP has to sign?  A model release is valid when given to a minor.

A model release IS a contract of sorts between you and a model as to how you the photographer plans to use the image. I give up with this thread. I'm going back to my day-job of contract management.

Feb 07 13 10:10 pm  Link  Quote 
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