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Photographer
money_train
Posts: 51
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


I read that "why pay model" thread, sounds more than 90% of model are Not worth to pay.

Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?

only for less than 10 mins, take few test shots and have a quick chat.

I understand it could waste model's time, however is it a good idea to do so?
Feb 12 13 07:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DAN CRUIKSHANK
Posts: 1,786
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


For the work I do, it would be a complete waste of time.
Feb 12 13 08:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,663
Imperial, California, US


I have enough trouble getting one to show up for a shoot, let alone for tea and crumpets first!
Feb 12 13 08:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


money_train wrote:
I read that "why pay model" thread, sounds more than 90% of model are Not worth to pay.

Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?

only for less than 10 mins, take few test shots and have a quick chat.

I understand it could waste model's time, however is it a good idea to do so?

pre-meet to collect 20-50% non-refundable deposit ...

otherwise models flake factor explodes exponentially ...

my half pence opinion ...

your mileage WILL vary ...

Feb 12 13 08:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24,078
Toulon, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur, France


If I was always at the studio and had time for someone to come in it wouldn't be a big deal. But, I'm not always there, I have other things to do, and what's talked about can usually be done over a phone call or a few emails.

Things get different if it's a bigger job or a larger team, but really nothing is done in a meeting that can't be phone calls or emails.


*edit* and I always feel these meeting threads talk about what happens after the casting took place. If it's a casting or go-see then just call it that.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Feb 12 13 08:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


in the real world, we have "go sees" where a model needs to show up in person, in order to casted for a particular job.

existing images are not always indicative of a models look..

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png
Feb 12 13 08:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,315
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


Hero Foto wrote:
pre-meet to collect 20-50% non-refundable deposit ...
.

and you'll never hire or trade with another model ever...

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png

Feb 12 13 08:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,328
Asheville, North Carolina, US


I like it for local models or less experienced people.
Feb 12 13 08:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
HOTTIE SHOTS
Posts: 5,950
Memphis, Tennessee, US


Who has time for that?  I meet them when we shoot.  I don't have time to drive somewhere and meet for lunch or coffee.
Feb 12 13 08:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:

and you'll never hire or trade with another model ever...

how are they paying for the shoot then?

Feb 12 13 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jackson frontier photos
Posts: 531
Joplin, Missouri, US


May be ok to do for less experienced models, if you want to take the time. I've had preshoot coffee twice and have an ongoing good working relationship with both.  More experience models/photogs view it as a waste of time.
Feb 12 13 08:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24,078
Toulon, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur, France


Hero Foto wrote:
how are they paying for the shoot then?

They can't mail a check or drop a deposit off?




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Feb 12 13 08:16 am  Link  Quote 
Model
allison mindy
Posts: 1,495
New York, New York, US


For what it is worth, I will not shoot with someone who requires a premeeting (including paid gigs). I feel that it is a waste of my time. I guess there are cases where I would make an exception, but I have not come across an instance where I was willing to make such an exception to date.
Feb 12 13 08:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

They can't mail a check or drop a deposit off?

no checks, too easy to forge, stop payment or just plain ole NSF ...

and if they dropped off the deposit, wouldn't that count as a pre-meet?

Feb 12 13 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Hero Foto wrote:
how are they paying for the shoot then?

They're not. But that previous post was a great way to imply that models are paying you and securing the shoot with a deposit. Not the most subtle, but 'A' for effort.

Feb 12 13 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,082
Catskill, New York, US


I think so. I try to do that whenever possible. If not test shoot just a quick meeting to create some face time.
Feb 12 13 08:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
POMERANTS
Posts: 123
Los Angeles, California, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
in the real world, we have "go sees" where a model needs to show up in person, in order to casted for a particular job.

existing images are not always indicative of a models look..

+1000

Feb 12 13 08:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:

They're not. But that previous post was a great way to imply that models are paying you and securing the shoot with a deposit. Not the most subtle, but 'A' for effort.

ROFL

Feb 12 13 08:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,262
Salem, Oregon, US


i don't agree with the 90% thing. i'd have gladly paid all my models if i had funds for that.

i've only ever had one pre-shoot meeting and that was at the model's request. it's hard enough getting them to show up for the shoot, much less for a pre-shoot meeting. and for my part sometimes the models are coming from 60-90 minutes away. i think it's more something for the model if she's worried the guy might be a creeper.

i do think that pre-shoot planning meetings can be helpful. review wardrobe and ideas for the shoot. we do them with our senior high school girls and sometimes for boudoir as well. and of course for weddings.
Feb 12 13 08:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Don Garrett
Posts: 4,291
Escondido, California, US


When I was hiring models for my art many years ago, and making initial contact with them "off the street", or in ads in the local college newspaper, I would often meet with them first, for dinner or some other non-business related talk. It was not necessary, but was usually cordial, and fun. Here, the models I use are usually on a travelling schedule, and I contact them through email, phone, or MM message first. I usually don't actually see them before shooting with them. It is less personal, and, often less fun, but the job gets done.
  I would say that you don't have to follow any rules, or procedures, but I do advocate for having fun, and making the model comfortable with you, if/when possible.
  Of course, my work is only for the sake of making art, and has very little commercial value, so everyone has a different purpose, and, therefore, has different needs.
-Don
Feb 12 13 08:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24,078
Toulon, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur, France


Hero Foto wrote:
and if they dropped off the deposit, wouldn't that count as a pre-meet?

No, that would count as dropping off a deposit, go in, drop it off, go out.




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Feb 12 13 08:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

No, that would count as dropping off a deposit, go in, drop it off, go out.

ahhh, got it ... thanks

Feb 12 13 08:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5,409
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US


Hero Foto wrote:
how are they paying for the shoot then?

Are you saying that not only do you get models to pay for shoots. You are successful in having them come in and put down a deposit?

Am I getting this right?

Feb 12 13 08:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boreal Photography
Posts: 292
Duluth, Minnesota, US


So far I am doing TFP, so I like to meet with llamas for coffee. See what I am getting. Also to break the ice, I suppose I got in this habit because initially I was photographing only nudes, often art llamas I knew but sometimes unknown llamas from an ad in a local alternative hippy type newspaper.  Maybe now as I foray more into fashion photography it will not be so important, but if I get burned hiring a llama for fashion and she looks a lot different (as in weight gain, hair cut) things could be different.

True horror story-- this life drawing art llama was gorgeous, 22, long jet black beautiful hair, great at posing. So I hire her for one of my initial nude photography sessions. I had to pick her up at her apartment, she had no transport. I pick her up and just unbelievable, she has shaved her head. Yeah, Sinnead O'Connor bald, okay maybe 1/8 inch long hair at best, marine recruit boot camp shaved. Unbelievable. So there you go, who you hire and who shows up can be quite different.
Feb 12 13 08:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 6,997
New York, New York, US


HOTTIE SHOTS wrote:
Who has time for that?  I meet them when we shoot.  I don't have time to drive somewhere and meet for lunch or coffee.

Agreed....

Feb 12 13 08:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,401
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


For my shoots, it would be a complete waste of time, for both myself and the model and I'm sure I'd loose the vast majority of models if I insisted on that.

For those planning a more expensive shoot, with models closer by, I can see where it might make sense.
Feb 12 13 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Photo
Posts: 4,144
New York, New York, US


money_train wrote:
I read that "why pay model" thread, sounds more than 90% of model are Not worth to pay.

Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?

only for less than 10 mins, take few test shots and have a quick chat.

I understand it could waste model's time, however is it a good idea to do so?

I'd say in your case the answer is clearly no.

My first question is what do you hope to get out of the meeting and is that actually something that you can get out of the meeting?

Since you don't seems to have an idea of why you'd have the meeting, I can't see how it wouldn't be a waste of your time.

Feb 12 13 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Dan K Photography wrote:

Are you saying that not only do you get models to pay for shoots. You are successful in having them come in and put down a deposit?

Am I getting this right?

it was tongue and cheek ...

most who shoot with models know this ain't happening ...

I have yet found a way to monetize shooting with models unless a client is paying ...

although, "models" (rather subjects) from the gen. pop. have no problems paying a deposit, and most don't flake ...

Feb 12 13 08:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gabby57
Posts: 394
Coppell, Texas, US


A new model here recently sent a PM wanting to "collaborate" on a number of themes including one that was too "out there" to describe in writing. She said I should call her. . .but didn't list a number.  I suggested we meet for coffee at a place of her choosing to discuss what she had in mind.

And the cyber crickets chirped on. . .

So, I think a "pre-meeting" might serve as a screening tool so long as it didn't take up too much time and was convenient for everyone.  Of course, doing this as a hobby instead of a job means I'm not loosing money in the form of my time by doing this.
Feb 12 13 08:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bobby sargent
Posts: 4,151
Deming, New Mexico, US


I would like to meet with the models ahead of time.  But for the most part that will never happen unless they live in the same city that I do.  I for the most part have to go by what other photographers have to say about the model before I would hire her for a shoot. bs
Feb 12 13 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,975
Portland, Oregon, US


money_train wrote:
I read that "why pay model" thread, sounds more than 90% of model are Not worth to pay.

First of all, any thread entitled "why pay model" is not likely to get a representative cross section of opinions.  The title itself is prejudiced already.  I happen to think that many, if not most, models are worthy of being paid. 

money_train wrote:
Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?  only for less than 10 mins, take few test shots and have a quick chat.

I understand it could waste model's time, however is it a good idea to do so?

What is the objective of such a meeting?

For some, it might be worth it.  For others (including me), a pre-meeting would be an inadequate substitute for checking references.

Feb 12 13 08:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,207
Orlando, Florida, US


All I have is my own experience to report.

1000+ shoots.
500+ unique different people

1 pre shoot meeting requested by the model.

That shoot went poorly.


I see it as a complete waste of time for both parties.  Pre-shoot meetings are important for wedding clients.  They're useless (in my experience) for model shoots.
Feb 12 13 09:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,604
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


money_train wrote:
Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?

only for less than 10 mins, take few test shots and have a quick chat.

I understand it could waste model's time, however is it a good idea to do so?

It depends. First of all, I don't see it as a waste of time for anyone involved if the shoot is important enough to all parties involved.

It's really a case-by-case basis though and there is no one answer to your question that would encompass all shoots. For example, if I'm doing a high-end TFP shoot with makeup artists and costume designers and hair stylists, then I believe it's mandatory that we all meet for a short meeting prior to the shoot so we can get a good read off of one another. It helps everyone to brainstorm how to make the shoot the best possible. It also allows us to look one another in the eye and make sure we're all on the same page for deadlines, etc. I like to review the TFP agreements and releases then as well. This saves time during the day of the shoot and keeps things on schedule.

If I'm working with a model for a client, it goes both ways though. If the client has already chosen the model, knows what they want, then a pre-shoot meeting has no real impact one way or the other as far as how I'm going to do the shoot, so I see it as being an unnecessary step. However, if a client asks me to book a model for a shoot of theirs and they are unwilling to hire from an agency, then I make it mandatory that we meet for an interview and pre-shoot meeting primarily because, as someone else mentioned, a models' photos from six months ago are not always an indication of how they look TODAY.

Feb 12 13 09:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Silver Mirage
Posts: 1,560
Plainview, Texas, US


It may be good for some projects, but generally it takes more time and effort than it is worth.

I do like to meet when I am considering a model for a specific look in a paid job. Unless the model's portfolio clearly shows the ability to do the job I will ask for a meet and test before committing to pay.
Feb 12 13 09:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
intense_puppy
Posts: 864
Brighton, England, United Kingdom


money_train wrote:
I read that "why pay model" thread, sounds more than 90% of model are Not worth to pay.

Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?

only for less than 10 mins, take few test shots and have a quick chat.

I understand it could waste model's time, however is it a good idea to do so?

Almost no models are going to go for that. So you have to pay your moneys and take your chance.

Feb 12 13 09:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Johan Johanson
Posts: 9
Lake Forest, California, US


I do a lot of video work. When I recruit from MM and they do not have a reel but list acting as an interest, I like to meet beforehand to get a test reel of how they look on camera. The look of a models portfolio does not translate directly to how they look in HD video. This makes sense to me. For still photography, not so much.
Feb 12 13 09:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RachelReilly
Posts: 1,699
Washington, District of Columbia, US


It's not nessessary
.
Feb 12 13 09:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
intense_puppy
Posts: 864
Brighton, England, United Kingdom


RachelReilly wrote:
It's not nessessary
.

I disagree, but I understand why you'd think that.

Feb 12 13 09:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jersey Shore
Posts: 402
Tinton Falls, New Jersey, US


Hero Foto wrote:

how are they paying for the shoot then?

i guess in cash once they get to the shoot location and sign the model release.

Feb 12 13 09:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Jersey Shore wrote:

i guess in cash once they get to the shoot location and sign the model release.

SQUARE works out great for those who do not carry cash ... wink

Feb 12 13 09:30 am  Link  Quote 
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