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Photographer
DaG
Posts: 2,784
Los Angeles, California, US


Feb 26 13 04:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sungoddess Studios
Posts: 5,169
Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey, US


"Go Sees" are common in modeling even for photography
Feb 26 13 04:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sungoddess Studios
Posts: 5,169
Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey, US


"Go Sees" are common in modeling even for photography.

strange wonkyness
Feb 26 13 04:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Seoul Photography
Posts: 404
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)


I think it depends on what is going to happen in the shoot. For a lot of standard shoots, where you're just doing normal portraits or light work with make-up and various outfits the pre-meeting probably doesn't have a lot to do with the actual shoot itself.

On the other hand if you're doing something unusual, overly artistic, something that might require effort on the part of all involved, a pre-meeting might be useful. For example, I've got an upcoming shoot that is going to involve light project onto the model's body, but specific patterns will be projected to fit her body. Those will need to be designed ahead of time which means we're going to meet, discuss the patterns, measure, test light projection, distances and things like that before actually shooting.

You really couldn't do this without a pre-meeting unless you were planning on having model and others sitting around while things were designed in the studio.
Feb 26 13 07:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Al Lock Photography
Posts: 15,832
Bangkok, Bangkok, Thailand


allison mindy wrote:
For what it is worth, I will not shoot with someone who requires a premeeting (including paid gigs). I feel that it is a waste of my time. I guess there are cases where I would make an exception, but I have not come across an instance where I was willing to make such an exception to date.

Don't move to NYC to model, Allison. You'll have a problem with that attitude.

Feb 26 13 07:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Teila K Day Photography
Posts: 1,929
Richmond, Indiana, US


Hero Foto wrote:

pre-meet to collect 20-50% non-refundable deposit ...

otherwise models flake factor explodes exponentially ...

my half pence opinion ...

your mileage WILL vary ...

Deposits work for me.  1997 - 2013 = 0 "flakes" wink

Feb 27 13 01:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Julia Gerace
Posts: 1,889
Monroe, Connecticut, US


DAN CRUIKSHANK wrote:
For the work I do, it would be a complete waste of time.

+1  -  though according to people here, it makes me anti-client and horrible to work with lol....

Feb 27 13 01:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Teila K Day Photography
Posts: 1,929
Richmond, Indiana, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
and you'll never hire or trade with another model ever...

Actually Hero Foto is correct.  Deposits not only work, but there's more than enough reasonably intelligent models who don't mind paying such.  I (conditionally) refund the deposit in cash at the end of the shoot per my profile.  Paid work?  You can bet you're paying a % up front if you're not a corporate entity.

Keeps no-shows (across the board) a non-issue for me and that alone has been worth it.

Different strokes.

To the OP:   No, there's almost never a need for me to meet with a model before shooting, unless I'm stuffing her into a size 2 or 0 dress...  sometimes what a model calls a size "2" and what her body calls a size two are two different things wink

Other than that, or situations that require physical dexterity, etc., there's not a reason to face meet.  A telephone, email, text, does the trick.

Feb 27 13 01:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NC Art Photos
Posts: 565
Raleigh, North Carolina, US


money_train wrote:
I read that "why pay model" thread, sounds more than 90% of model are Not worth to pay.

Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?

only for less than 10 mins, take few test shots and have a quick chat.

I understand it could waste model's time, however is it a good idea to do so?

For the work I do - I need that meeting. 

First I want to see if the model looks ANYTHING like she does in her pics.  Or has she put on or taken off LOTS of weight, changed hair color, gotten bigger (or smaller) boobs, etc. 

Can the model follow directions and be at the meeting location on time, or does she get lost or is late? 

I do this for TFP and paid gigs.

Feb 27 13 01:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Clothing Designer
Research Denim
Posts: 1
Bowie, Maryland, US


I really hope I don't run into any complex issues when I have to work with models. I've put a lot into getting these designs put together. If I have the outfit fitted for a model and then she flakes out (as someoen put it) it would take a lot of time and energy to put another shoot together. I don't have money to be waisting with unprofessional models. I would be open to meeting prior to the shoot or video because one would want to make sure the two personalities mesh well.
Mar 04 13 06:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
I M N Photography
Posts: 2,309
New York, New York, US


A fitting is essential. Hopefully on the same day, but not immediately before your session(s).
Mar 06 13 01:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
the lonely photographer
Posts: 1,875
Beverly Hills, California, US


S W I N S K E Y wrote:
in the real world, we have "go sees" where a llama needs to show up in person, in order to casted for a particular job.

existing images are not always indicative of a llamas look..

thats for damn sure,   sometimes they can be such divas its not worth shooting  her.

Mar 06 13 04:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrea Acailawen
Posts: 948
Tampa, Florida, US


IMHO, going through your local agency bookers is the best way to ensure getting reliable models who fit your needs and won't flake. It's not a 100% guarantee. We've had a few agency models flake before, but it's very rare when their booker is involved. Second best option is checking references and only working with reputable models.

As Doug said, a "go see" is perfectly acceptable before booking a model, just to ensure the model is a good fit for a project that you're working on. Again though, if you're working with a good booker, you should have their current stats and recent images, so it's not usually necessary for a creative test unless you have specific requirements. A pre-shoot fitting with the stylist or designer is another story.

While charging a deposit on a paid test (i.e. to develop a model's book, rather than your own) is fine, charging a model a deposit for your own creatives or for client work would be the kiss of death to any agency booker, as well as to the vast majority of models worth having in your book. On my end, that's just never going to happen.
Mar 07 13 05:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ruben Sanchez
Posts: 3,416
San Antonio, Texas, US


money_train wrote:
Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?

It's a waste of my time.  All I need is to see the model's online portfolio.  That tells me what I need to know.

Mar 11 13 01:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rebel Photo
Posts: 11,446
Florence, South Carolina, US


Sungoddess Studios wrote:
"Go Sees" are common in modeling even for photography

Go see's are common with Agency/Clients.... not simple modeling.

Mar 11 13 08:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jim McSmith
Posts: 757
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom


pre-mating is a really good idea. i recommend that.
Mar 11 13 08:06 am  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
sdgillis
Posts: 2,424
Portland, Oregon, US


this thread gave me an idea.  Start charging models who _want_ to pre-meet. Nearly every one who has ever requested that has just wasted time and opportunity.
Mar 11 13 10:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,490
Houston, Texas, US


DAN CRUIKSHANK wrote:
For the work I do, it would be a complete waste of time.

Highly impractical in spread-out, high-traffic areas like Houston where the model and photographer may be 20 to 40 miles apart.

All it does is introduce another point of failure where either party may flake or have to legitimately cancel and possibly doom the shoot as a result.

Mar 11 13 10:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,488
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Al Lock Photography wrote:
Don't move to NYC to model, Allison. You'll have a problem with that attitude.

That would require leaving the fashion capital of Ohio where all the top agencies are...

Mar 11 13 06:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sunn fotography
Posts: 263
Hong Kong, Hong Kong, China


for work, pre meet models its like casting.
for personal (TF or free), i dun pre meet them! cos i think its waste of their time.
Mar 11 13 06:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,488
Atlanta, Georgia, US


sunn fotography wrote:
for work, pre meet models its like casting.
for personal (TF or free), i dun pre meet them! cos i think its waste of their time.

Really? So you are saying your own personal projects are worth less effort?

Mar 11 13 06:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Studio Grey
Posts: 2
London, England, United Kingdom


Shot By Adam wrote:

money_train wrote:
Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?


It's really a case-by-case basis though and there is no one answer to your question that would encompass all shoots. For example, if I'm doing a high-end TFP shoot with makeup artists and costume designers and hair stylists, then I believe it's mandatory that we all meet for a short meeting prior to the shoot so we can get a good read off of one another. It helps everyone to brainstorm how to make the shoot the best possible. It also allows us to look one another in the eye and make sure we're all on the same page for deadlines, etc. I like to review the TFP agreements and releases then as well. This saves time during the day of the shoot and keeps things on schedule.

If I'm working with a model for a client, it goes both ways though. If the client has already chosen the model, knows what they want, then a pre-shoot meeting has no real impact one way or the other as far as how I'm going to do the shoot, so I see it as being an unnecessary step. However, if a client asks me to book a model for a shoot of theirs and they are unwilling to hire from an agency, then I make it mandatory that we meet for an interview and pre-shoot meeting primarily because, as someone else mentioned, a models' photos from six months ago are not always an indication of how they look TODAY.

Wise words, its really down to the client. If you get a creative brief from the client &  really understand the look they are going for then you can do the casting yourself (don't trust portfolios - you need to see for yourself).

Unless you've worked with the client before, this can be a very risky strategy. Sometimes the client doesn't know what look they need. If there are any doubts, get the models in front of the client. They choose!

Mar 12 13 02:08 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rinehart Photography
Posts: 1
Sarasota, Florida, US


Most if not all models I contact for a shoot never get back. I usually put ads on craigslist. Some cities are better than others with replies. And even then most can answer my questions or understand simple words. One of the most attractive girls I've worked with I met in a grocery store.
Mar 12 13 10:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotopia
Posts: 1,094
Atlanta, Georgia, US


the lonely photographer wrote:
thats for damn sure,   sometimes they can be such divas i.
ts not worth shooting  her.

I think the answer lies in what type of "shoot" it is, for retail work, portraits, and portfolio building, a preproduction meeting isn't a requirement.

For commercial assignments, and commissioned fine art projects, any person unwilling to invest some time for a preproduction meeting in order to get the assignment, won't get it.

Novice talents that believe the World should revolve around them, will find instead that the is World passing them by.

Mar 12 13 10:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
jlorenzo Photography
Posts: 30
Perth, Western Australia, Australia


During the initial phone interview I tell them that if they do not show up for a mandatory meeting, there will be no shoot.  I always insist on a meeting before I work with any model, I've never had a model not attend one and there we discuss the shoot, what is needed who, where, when and how are discussed. 
Then I followup with a shoot sheet.  It does minimises the "no-shows".
Mar 12 13 08:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Princess Dasha
Posts: 57
Malmö, Skåne, Sweden


Really there shouldn't be a new thread every single day about which kind of business etiquette applies where in the modeling industry. It's like any other business. Common business etiquette applies.

Pre-meetings to discuss a video shoot are common as video shoots require more planning accordingly but if it's geographically inconvenient or one of the involved parts is busy then a pre-meeting on Skype would be useful.

Are you hiring the model? Then ask yourself if you would ever ask a client (in any other business outside of the modeling business) if they would pre-meet before the actual services you are hiring them for. Depending on the level of professionalism I don't think why someone would find it attractive to work for free before someone is hiring them. I mean, isn't that why they would decline a TF* shoot and list their hourly rates, to begin with?

What you are referring to here does apply under the description of "casting calls" but you'd have to be a company, a publication or another major third party though.
Mar 13 13 05:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
I M N Photography
Posts: 2,309
New York, New York, US


Princess Dasha wrote:
Really there shouldn't be a new thread every single day about which kind of business etiquette applies where in the modeling industry. It's like any other business. Common business etiquette applies.

Pre-meetings to discuss a video shoot are common as video shoots require more planning accordingly but if it's geographically inconvenient or one of the involved parts is busy then a pre-meeting on Skype would be useful.

Are you hiring the model? Then ask yourself if you would ever ask a client (in any other business outside of the modeling business) if they would pre-meet before the actual services you are hiring them for. Depending on the level of professionalism I don't think why someone would find it attractive to work for free before someone is hiring them. I mean, isn't that why they would decline a TF* shoot and list their hourly rates, to begin with?
...
What you are referring to here does apply under the description of "casting calls" but you'd have to be a company, a publication or another major third party though.

Working for free? I think the "pre-meet" (outside of modeling) that you use as an example is called a "free estimate." It gives you both an idea of the work involved, and how much time, effort, and possibly cost it will be.

I don't shoot nudes through MM, but I can see why it would be important for some photographers to at least make sure that the model resembles his/her portfolio. It also gives the photographer the option of choosing the model that get the job done, with the least amount of post-processing,

Princess Dasha wrote:
...
What you are referring to here does apply under the description of "casting calls" but you'd have to be a company, a publication or another major third party though.

True, but you contradict your earlier statement:

Princess Dasha wrote:
... Depending on the level of professionalism I don't think why someone would find it attractive to work for free before someone is hiring them..

You make the assumption that the shots taken during the pre-meet/casting call are useful for anything other than assessing the model as a potential candidate. You should not expect to get paid each and everytime you stand in front of a camera. If that is the case then you are likely to skip on most of the selection process at casting calls.

Mar 13 13 05:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Hieronimi
Posts: 238
Chicago, Illinois, US


money_train wrote:
I read that "why pay model" thread, sounds more than 90% of model are Not worth to pay.

Does photographer need pre meeting with model before booking?

only for less than 10 mins, take few test shots and have a quick chat.

I understand it could waste model's time, however is it a good idea to do so?

I love meeting with photographers beforehand. Getting to know someone's personality if you're working them, I think, is the key to having a comfortable shoot and even greater creative idea collaboration.

Of course, if there isn't time for that to happen over coffee, an adequate phone call suffices.

But still, good business comes from strong communication and interpersonal relations. I feel like most of the threads bashing models and photographers come from people who lack these skills and only briefly message each other. The flake factor when it comes to this is huge, which no MMer is stranger to.

Mar 13 13 05:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Hieronimi
Posts: 238
Chicago, Illinois, US


jlorenzo Photography wrote:
During the initial phone interview I tell them that if they do not show up for a mandatory meeting, there will be no shoot.  I always insist on a meeting before I work with any model, I've never had a model not attend one and there we discuss the shoot, what is needed who, where, when and how are discussed. 
Then I followup with a shoot sheet.  It does minimises the "no-shows".

+1,000

Mar 13 13 05:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JC Dalman
Posts: 94
Ventura, California, US


For the model I was planning to pay for a shoot on a project. I do want to meet them before I waste my skills, time and money. Just to make sure if they are worth paying.

I am the one creating the final art... smile my work have value so is the the money if am going to spend.

If they flake ... move on and get another one.
Mar 13 13 05:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
robert b mitchell
Posts: 1,298
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Only if I am abit "suspicious" of their real look or attitude. Most of the time I never bother.
Mar 13 13 05:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
I M N Photography
Posts: 2,309
New York, New York, US


jlorenzo Photography wrote:
During the initial phone interview I tell them that if they do not show up for a mandatory meeting, there will be no shoot.  I always insist on a meeting before I work with any model, I've never had a model not attend one and there we discuss the shoot, what is needed who, where, when and how are discussed. 
Then I followup with a shoot sheet.  It does minimises the "no-shows".

Good for you. I am always surprised at how aloof some people seem to be about the scheduling process, yet they are likely to show up and rant about flakes.

Mar 13 13 05:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Malameel
Posts: 1,087
Dallas, Texas, US


I have meet almost every model I've photographed in advance.

The few that don't are usually flakes (in my experience).

Yes a few I was unable to meet in advance (i.e. while traveling) and things did turn out fine but I communicate with them often (reasonably) and if there is any since of disinterest, lack of involvement, or general flakiness, I cancel ASAP.
M
Mar 15 13 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


My experience so far -

For planned paid shoots involving support staff (MUAH, asst) - definitely works better.
For TF shoots - not really necessary or sometimes even realistic.
Mar 16 13 08:38 am  Link  Quote 
Model
P L Taylor
Posts: 11
Los Angeles, California, US


I have an odd question.. I might be getting braces on for a short time.. 4 months.
So that's a "change".. But how big is that..
Can you photoshop the braces.
How does a photographer feel about that
Mar 18 13 08:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
P L Taylor
Posts: 11
Los Angeles, California, US


I don't think I need to meet the photographer first
I try to ask enough questions to weed out the creepers.
My problem is trying to nail down a time..
Such as.. ok Sunday afternoon or Saturday 1 pm
Mar 18 13 08:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Charles Gast
Posts: 191
Mason, Ohio, US


Just had my first tea and crumpets before a meeting for photos yesterday.
That after 6 years doing this.
So -- it all depends.
Mar 31 13 07:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,490
Houston, Texas, US


George Ruge wrote:
I have enough trouble getting one to show up for a shoot, let alone for tea and crumpets first!

Or as I say, it adds another point of failure.

Mar 31 13 08:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BlueMoonPics
Posts: 4,098
New York, New York, US


When I first started here I offered to meet up if the llamas liked.
A couple took me up on it.  It went well.

Now I don't normally offer because it doesn't seem necessary for just a regular TF* shoot.  But recently a llama did ask to meet me.  I was pleasantly shocked and the meeting went quite well. We already shot a few times and I hope to shoot more with her.  She was great.
Mar 31 13 09:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Modelsensation - Zabu
Posts: 109
Lexington, Kentucky, US


Skype and PayPal work for me. If a model doesn't have the energy to Skype they probably will flake.
Mar 31 13 12:52 pm  Link  Quote 
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