Ken Pegg wrote:
What protection do you take on a first date?

Rufinol and Patron?

Anna Von Leigh wrote:
Ok kids, I want to get other models ideas on this subject. Feeling protected on photo shoots. I'm talking about bringing a weapon or pepper spray, or something of that matter to a shoot.

This is mainly for tfp shoots where your meeting the photographer for the first time at the shoot, maybe it's a nude shoot, in the woods, in the middle of nowhere.

We all have our bag full of clothes and makeup, do you also carry a knife? Gun? Taser?

This is the Internet after all, who knows what kind of weirdos are out there :p

*please don't make this into a gun debate*

The best defense is common sense. CHECK REFERENCES!!!
If I discovered a model had brought a weapon to a shoot for her personal protection AGAINST ME, such as a gun or taser, I would cancel the shoot on the spot.

Ken Pegg wrote:
What protection do you take on a first date?

A condom?

Anna Von Leigh wrote:
This is mainly for tfp shoots where your meeting the photographer for the first time at the shoot, maybe it's a nude shoot, in the woods, in the middle of nowhere.

Well the way to avoid these problems is to only pay photographers - no trading - then you won't have to worry. It's mainly tfp shoots where there would be a problem, especially if they're nude shoots in the middle of nowhere. If you pay a photographer in the middle of nowhere, there of course wouldn't be any problems at all. It makes all the difference on the weirdo scale: only trade guys are creeps.
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/now that's actual sarcasm

C s p i n e wrote:
I don't have any issue with guns and knives or pepper spray. You don't need any of that stuff, but whatever makes you feel more secure.

But what if I need 5 armed escorts to feel secure? Cool?

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
I would have no problem with (and have had) models bringing firearms to a shoot, as long as they make it known to me ahead of time.  I might want to ask a few questions of the model regarding her training, experience, and authorization to carry a weapon.   But, I'm very comfortable with and around many types of firearms.  Many of my cowgirls are posed with weapons (usually replicas of ones appropriate to the 'time period' that applies to the theme of the shoot) but these are not loaded.

"Bringing a firearm to a shoot" and "arriving armed for protection from the photographer" are very different scenarios.

Do you think an armed model is going to inform you she's bringing a firearm for her safety when YOU'RE the one she's bringing it to protect against?

"Model: Hey, just wanted to let you know I'll arrive armed in case you get out of line and try to rape me. However, you can rest safe that I am licensed to carry the firearm and receive consistently high marks on gun safety and marksmanship.

Looking forward to our shoot!

Photographer: OK, that's great. I just wanted to make sure you follow all gun safety and legal precautions."

If you pose no threat to begin with, it's unnecessary (and insulting to many). If you did pose a threat, now you just received advance notification and can prepare.

That doesn't make any sense.

HM-Photography wrote:

Aside from the obvious grammar issues, why is a "tfp" shoot more dangerous than a paid one??? 

Anna Von Leigh wrote:

A condom?

Ya know.. you stretch that back, then let it snap.

It could take an eye out!

Or be used to sling-shot a projectile.

Anna Von Leigh wrote:
EDIT..................

I have to go and won't have time to check this thread, but please keep in mind everybody had had different life experiences, so please be kind to one another and respect each others opinions on the matter.

This is true.  I had a friend whose brother had been killed by a burglar.   Her father gave her a pistol to protect herself.  She pulled it out to show my ex-wife.   While fumbling with the old .38 cal pistol it fired and missed my ex by inches. She shot our brand new, very expensive couch. 

No.   Guns are not to be brandished around me.

I have no idea if the person using them knows what the  @#@@)*  they're doing with them.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

"Bringing a firearm to a shoot" and "arriving armed for protection from the photographer" are very different scenarios.

Do you think an armed model is going to inform you she's bringing a firearm for her safety when YOU'RE the one she's bringing it to protect against?

"Model: Hey, just wanted to let you know I'll arrive armed in case you get out of line and try to rape me. However, you can rest safe that I am licensed to carry the firearm and receive consistently high marks on gun safety and marksmanship.

Looking forward to our shoot!

Photographer: OK, that's great. I just wanted to make sure you follow all gun safety and legal precautions."

If you pose no threat to begin with, it's unnecessary (and insulting to many). If you did pose a threat, now you just received advance notification and can prepare.

That doesn't make any sense.

Thanks for a perfect example of forum posters that only look at things from their own microcosmic perspective.

Well, a model who is legally carrying is likely to tell the photographer that she is 'packing' .   I would not feel at all threatened if a model informed me that she's going to be carrying firearms.  I would still verify that she is permitted and qualified to do so and inform her that her weapon is welcome as long at there's no round in the chamber while on set.

I don't find it insulting at all that a model brings a firearm to a shoot.  Nor do I consider it an indication that she doesn't trust me.  Where I live and work, a large percentage of the population "carries".  Frankly, I admire people who have the spine to provide for their own protection rather than rely upon someone to come 'save them'  And, in the event that our shoot might be interrupted by persons who coveted the photographic equipment or the model herself, well, two guns are better protection than one.

toesup wrote:
Just a weird thought..

Where does a nude model conceal all of these 'protective devices'?

You're not supposed to ask.

Anna Von Leigh wrote:
Ok kids, I want to get other models ideas on this subject. Feeling protected on photo shoots. I'm talking about bringing a weapo...

You carry one with you always-- your foot. If women only knew how powerful a good kick in the crotch is, utterly debilitating to a guy, brings him to his knees for some time.

Anna Von Leigh wrote:
Ok kids, I want to get other models ideas on this subject. Feeling protected on photo shoots. I'm talking about bringing a weapon or pepper spray, or something of that matter to a shoot.

This is mainly for tfp shoots where your meeting the photographer for the first time at the shoot, maybe it's a nude shoot, in the woods, in the middle of nowhere.

We all have our bag full of clothes and makeup, do you also carry a knife? Gun? Taser?

This is the Internet after all, who knows what kind of weirdos are out there :p

*please don't make this into a gun debate*

I don't carry anything. I am better with hand to hand versus any weapons I could ever bring. Plus would an attacker let me go run to the next room, fiddle with my bag, to grab some pepper spray? Ain't nobody got time for that. Maybe consider taking a self defence/boxing/fighting/martial arts class. Good work out too

Marc Damon wrote:
If society continues heading into the downward spiral, procreation as we know it will cease to exist because all seven billion people on this rock will adopt the same motto: Trust No One.

Any photographer here own one of these? I don't.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh ... I WANT ONE!!  ;-)

Dekilah wrote:
When I do shoots in out of the way locations, I do take a few extra safety precautions:

- Generally, I only do these with photographers I have worked with before or who have at least a couple good references from models I know and respect the opinion of.

- I get the address of the location in advance and send it to a couple people just in case, if the photographer refused to give it I would see that as a red flag.

- I usually set up a time to text or call someone after the shoot and when we are getting close to that time, if it appears we may run over, I remind the photographer that I need to make the call so I need to be in service. Most photographers are really, really understanding about this.

- I have someone drive me to the shoot and drop me off if I can, though sometimes the photographer has been my transportation.

- I trust my instincts. If I feel at all iffy about communications prior to the shoot, I do not do it.

Last summer I took an Ohio model 200 miles to northern Michigan for a shoot on my property.  She was nude and wasn't carrying anything.  Her boyfriend picked her up.   

18+
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/29174545

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

If we're shooting in Highland Park, I will discard my "no weapons for models" clause.

I don't shoot in Highland Park but I have worked there.

Aina Nudes wrote:
I have mace on my key chain and recently invested into a switchblade. I showed it to a friend of mine (who is a photographer and pinches my ears about not checking references if I happen to not and mention it) who promptly stole my knife and sharpened it. Then he showed me his. Apparently, I bought a cheap knife. I'm envious haha.

You might want to check CA state law on switchblades.  I think they're illegal.

Michael Pandolfo wrote:

If we're shooting in Highland Park, I will discard my "no weapons for models" clause.

Not to worry.....there isn't much left there these days.

MnPhoto wrote:
Sorry to hear you were kidnapped, Patrick.
I was hoping to read more about the ordeal.
Did your folks pay a ransom? How did you free yourself from the situation??

You really piqued my interest!

I had a studio that I shared in a co-op with a couple other photographers.  The studio was located in an old shopping mall which was schedule to be demolished as soon as the last of the tenants such as our co-op were to move out.  So think "creepy isolated" store front studio at night when everyone is closed.

I was also managing a band at the time which even rehearsed at my studio on occasion.   One night while I was at a club where my band was playing, I met these two German ladies.  One resembled a shorter version of Claudia Schiffer to me, so naturally I wanted to shoot her and invited them to my studio for a photo session.   

She was dressed and ready to shoot, so we went for it that same night.  They drove their car and I drove my van to the studio.  So here are two young women going to an isolated studio in the middle of the night to "shoot" with a stranger they just met.  Total 80's/90's sort of thing, right?

In talking with them, one had a limited vocabulary and strong German accent while the other not so Claudia Schiffer looking one did more talking with me and translating between the prettier one and me.  They had come over from East Germany, and were nannies.  We do the photo shoot with me knocking off a couple rolls of 36/Plus-X ... the popular black and white film at the time. 

So I probably did most of the talking during the session, letting her know that I was shooting black and white, along with the info that I have my own darkroom.  As soon as the session was over and I was putting my gear away, then the pretty one demanded "I want you to process those now!"   I tried to explain that I would process the film and get back to her when I had it developed and proofed, but she would not hear of it. 

The other girl said "You better come with us.  We'll drive you to your photo lab .... I advise you to process and print the proof sheets now or else we'll tear you and your place up ... and say you try to rape her and I as her witness."   Now you see where I'm heading with this? 

So the threat was clear.  Here am I, a young guy alone with two younger women in an isolated industrial area of town ... shooting pictures of one of them in my studio. No cellphones in those days.  If I go running away from them ... do I dare leave my studio to their whim?  Taking a chance that if I happen to run into a cop that he will believe me over the two women?  They could probably make it look like there was a struggle in the studio, and she would tear her clothing to make it look like I man handled her.  Then the site to the cop of me running away?  It almost seems laughable that I would get myself in that sort of a situation!  I said I was naive! 

Anyway, I decided to go along with their game.  They got me to get in their car, and the pretty (and now demanding one) drove ... very fast!  She even knew where my darkroom was.  At that point, I was being taken against my will because of her threat, but I was more afraid of dying in a car crash! 

We get to the darkroom which is built on a piece of ground in my old neighborhood.  It's a quiet time in the middle if the night and we are in this walk in closet sized room together.  I go ahead with processing the film ... and then when it is dry, cut and proof the negatives like I normally do. While doing all that, I was trying to talk some sense into her, but it didn't help.

The things she said about East Germany and how she missed Communism were interesting.  I also learned that the ID's they showed me were fake!  They had fake ID's to get in the club, so she was not 21 years old!  That got me even more concerned that perhaps she wasn't even 18???  But I did not shoot anything inappropriate either way. 

Did she have a llamaing career in Germany, I asked?  It blew my mind when she told me that "this method" of forcing the photographer to give her everything and for free is how she builds her portfolio!  She actually said "This is how we do it in East Germany!"  I'm like "Uh huh, ... no wonder you left!" 

By this time, I knew that she was a nutcase.  I just wanted to get her out of my darkroom, and away from me.  So I gave her the 2 rolls of film, and the proof sheets.  She was standing over me the whole time so she knew I didn't make extra copies or try to trick her.  I then ended my time with her and her female "escort" by telling her that I want her to promise " ... never to contact me again!"  She agreed, and they left me there because I was close enough to walk home from there. 

I was that tortured from being around these two women that giving up a couple rolls of film was a small price to pay for one wild night that I could have done without.  She kept her word, as I never heard from or saw them ever again.  No ransom necessary.  A short amount of time and film lost.  I chalked it up as a life lesson. 

There you have it!  That is why I take the time to get to know people before jumping at the chance to shoot with them.   I'm actually a pretty good judge of character, but even I get fooled sometimes.  Messages by email, and talking on the phone are a requirement.  It's very rare that I have problems with llamas flaking, or any sort of "escort" problem ... but that true life story probably makes up for a lot of 'em.

Envy wrote:

The true weirdos are the ones who carry an arsenal of weapons to a photoshoot rather than check references like a normal sane person.

+1. 

I am thankful that I live in a country where the carrying of mace, pepper spray, pistols, revolvers, tasers, and concealable weapons in general are criminal offences in themselves.

landofy wrote:
I suggest prevention is the best form of defence.

1 research the photographer- check their website, folios etc, look at the models they have worked with and ask others (that's what networking is about)

2 Use your gut instincts- anything that is making your spidey senses tingle, whether it be in the communication or type of images the photographer shoots makes you feel uneasy then it's probably a good idea to pass on the project

3 The moment you feel uncomfortable or creeped out, leave.

4 Don't be reliant on the photographer for getting out, make sure you have your own way to get to the shoot location, don't leave yourself desperate for the money from a shoot.

5 if you really are concerned about your safety then perhaps you can have a policy of meeting the photographer before a shoot, or only shooting in a public place for the first shoot.

6. make sure somone knows where your going and when to expect your return so they have somewhere to start looking for your body parts when you get hacked to pieces.

The above worked for me during the 7 years I was a model on here.

Excellent ideas for models AND photographers. 

I would add one more;  DO NOT depend on messaging, and texting as your only method of communication.  TALK on the phone at least once before committing to a photo shoot.  I refuse to book a shoot with a model until I've spoken on the phone.   Even a hearing impaired model was able to accomplish this for me with assistance.

The reason is that before the Internet, all I had was speaking on the phone, and meeting in person.  I would run ads in newspapers, and hold casting calls in public locations like schools.   Meeting in person is not mandatory for me, but I recommended it if at all possible.

natural beauties of qld wrote:

+1. 

I am thankful that I live in a country where the carrying of mace, pepper spray, pistols, revolvers, tasers, and concealable weapons in general are criminal offences in themselves.

I've shot with hundreds of models in the Untied States over the past 30 years.  I've never known any of them to carry a weapon to the shoot.  If any of them did, they must have kept it well hidden!!!   

All the nonsense you read on the Internet about America is exaggerated greatly by the media.  A few incidences are magnified to appear like it's a common occurrence, when in fact it is very rare.

Light and Lens Studio wrote:
Thanks for a perfect example of forum posters that only look at things from their own microcosmic perspective.

Well, a model who is legally carrying is likely to tell the photographer that she is 'packing' .   I would not feel at all threatened if a model informed me that she's going to be carrying firearms.  I would still verify that she is permitted and qualified to do so and inform her that her weapon is welcome as long at there's no round in the chamber while on set.

I don't find it insulting at all that a model brings a firearm to a shoot.  Nor do I consider it an indication that she doesn't trust me.  Where I live and work, a large percentage of the population "carries".  Frankly, I admire people who have the spine to provide for their own protection rather than rely upon someone to come 'save them'  And, in the event that our shoot might be interrupted by persons who coveted the photographic equipment or the model herself, well, two guns are better protection than one.

As opposed to your worldly view that 2 guns are better protection than one.

I was answering based on the question posed by the OP. What do you bring for protection?

The fact that the gun, in the OP's question, is being brought "for protection" inherently means the model doesn't trust you. It's being brought to protect her from YOU so it's not likely she's going to inform you or ask permission from you.

Nor is she going to feel the need to answer your Firearm Safety Quiz For Models, pardner.

It's ironic that answering the OP's actual "protection" question as it was posed it short-sighted to you. It may very well be that you're in an area where everyone carries firearms and bringing it to a shoot isn't a big deal. But that's not what the OP asked.

The OP asked about it for PROTECTION...meaning you don't normally carry it around but are going to bring it because you fear something happening to you on the shoot. Do you really think a model who feels the need to bring a gun for protection from you is going to discuss it with you beforehand?

Note: When you said you would allow a firearm, I had no idea it was actually mandatory.

Anna Von Leigh wrote:
This is mainly for tfp shoots where your meeting the photographer for the first time at the shoot, maybe it's a nude shoot, in the woods, in the middle of nowhere.

I haven't read through this entire thread but I'm confused.

Why using your logic would a TF* shoot be any more dangerous (safety'wise) than a paid shoot?

Why using your logic would a nude shoot be any more dangerous than a clothed shoot?

PhotographybyT wrote:
I wouldn't have any problems if a model had mace or pepper spray. But I'm not sure how I would react if they brought a gun or a knife and made me aware of it.

I had somewhat of an uncomfortable moment once with a model (who I've worked with before) that I've photographed in a hotel. We were shooting boudoir sets there. I was resetting and adjusting my lights when she comes out of the walk in closet towards me holding an 10 inch carving knife.

At that split second when I saw the knife in her hand I thought..."SH*T!! I think I'm going to crap my pants!" And I almost did! (lol)

But then I noticed she looked a little worried as well and asked, "Is this yours!?" Taking a step back and holding my lightstand between me and "the knife" I told her "heck no!"

We both freaked out a little then realized that someone else had probably brought it and hid it behind a tray where she found it, then forgot about it. We both had a good laugh afterwards, but boy that was certainly one uncomfortable moment! (lol)

You know this location!  A buddy of mine was shooting with a female model in her bikini out there on Monterey beach when he noticed cop cars pulling up along the side of Del Monte Av. ... he was nervous at first, but she said "Oh those are my partners at work!"  She then introduced him to a few of the officers.  They were just curious to see how the session was going.  It seems she didn't tell him until than that she was a cop!  She wasn't carrying her gun though. 

In 30 years of shooting, I've never "known" a model to be carrying a weapon.