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123last
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,405
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Suppose you go on eBay to browse and you find something you really want.  That something (say wine glasses) can be broken in transit (especially if the delivery company has hired Ace Ventura), so you buy the item, pay for the shipping (that the seller has listed) and send them a note asking them to please double box the items because it's important you get them intact.

  A week later, the seller contacts you and says something to the effect of ... if you're going to request special services, you should pay more for shipping.  I took your wine glasses to the FedEx store to be shipped and they charged me an extra $12 for your requested double boxing.

  Would you send the seller the $12 after the glasses arrived intact or would you invite that seller to pound sand for being too lazy to pack the things up themselves?
Feb 14 13 01:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I'd send them $12.  I would have thought the seller thoughtful for bringing the shipment to FedEx instead of risking doing it themselves.
Feb 14 13 01:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
S W I N S K E Y
Posts: 24,310
Saint Petersburg, Florida, US


i would send them the $12

http://i.imgur.com/m8TQi.png
Feb 14 13 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 31,706
Lodi, California, US


e m i l y wrote:
I'd send them $12.  I would have thought the seller thoughtful for bringing the shipment to FedEx instead of risking doing it themselves.

That. You did, after all, ask for special shipping.

Feb 14 13 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ArtisticPhotography
Posts: 7,698
Buffalo, New York, US


You pay for it because the seller has an obligation to deliver it to you, unbroken, using standard shipping. An additional box, additional packing, and additional postage all costs the seller more.

You should have just used standard shipping and assumed this wasn't the seller's first rodeo.
Feb 14 13 01:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Clothing Designer
Chain Reaction
Posts: 514
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


You did request special packaging/handling. You should cover the additional charge.
Feb 14 13 01:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
r T p
Posts: 2,715
Los Angeles, California, US


i would expect the seller to minimally offer a shipping and packaging option that would ensure safe delivery of whatever they're selling.  anything beyond that would be additional cost to the buyer.

i would expect the buyer, knowing they're bidding on a fragile item, to address, with the seller, things like shipping in advance of bidding.

given that you received your stuff intact... split the difference and send them $6
Feb 14 13 01:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,469
Portland, Oregon, US


You asked for special handling.  $12 is not unreasonable.  I'd pay them.
Feb 14 13 01:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,079
Salem, Oregon, US


pay them the $12 and be happy the glasses arrived safely. i've seen a lot of things get broken in shipping when not really well-packaged.
Feb 14 13 01:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,405
Vineland, New Jersey, US


This is my thinking:  no matter what I ask for, it's up to the seller to ensure that the item is packed adequately enough to get to me in one working piece or refund my money.  Just because I ask for double boxing doesn't mean they have to give it to me (it doesn't matter if the item is double boxed or not as long as the items arrive intact).  Taking these things to a FedEx (or UPS) store to be packaged for them is inviting highway robbery.

  One can go to a supermarket (most of the time) and get all the free and sturdy boxes they can shake a stick at for a day.  $12 because they invited someone else to do the packaging is crazy to me.  Even if they gave me what I asked for, $12 is far more money than is necessary.
Feb 14 13 02:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,076
Catskill, New York, US


I'd send them the $12
Feb 14 13 02:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 31,706
Lodi, California, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
This is my thinking:  no matter what I ask for, it's up to the seller to ensure that the item is packed adequately enough to get to me in one working piece or refund my money.  Just because I ask for double boxing doesn't mean they have to give it to me (it doesn't matter if the item is double boxed or not as long as the items arrive intact).  Taking these things to a FedEx (or UPS) store to be packaged for them is inviting highway robbery.

  One can go to a supermarket (most of the time) and get all the free and sturdy boxes they can shake a stick at for a day.  $12 because they invited someone else to do the packaging is crazy to me.  Even if they gave me what I asked for, $12 is far more money than is necessary.

Well, if you're looking for an excuse to stiff the seller and tell him to pound sand, there you go. roll

Feb 14 13 02:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,405
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
Well, if you're looking for an excuse to stiff the seller and tell him to pound sand, there you go. roll

Excuse to stiff the seller?  They set up the listing with a shipping price that I agreed to pay.  I asked for double boxing, yes, but I didn't agree to pay more money.  If they could do the double boxing for the same price, there is no problem.  If they couldn't do the double boxing for the same price but did it anyway, that's not my fault or my problem.

  To me, stiffing the seller would be sending them less money than they asked for to do the shipping or not paying at all. 

  If it matters, I'm also a seller.  If I tell someone the shipping is going to be $5 but it ends up costing $12 for postage alone, I'll just pay the money and the buyer will never hear about it.  If it goes the other way, I don't want to hear about it. 

  Besides, how would I know if the seller didn't get what he wanted for the item and the shipping was adequate, even with the double boxing, but he just wanted to pad his profit margin?

Feb 14 13 02:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 31,706
Lodi, California, US


Is this thread just a quest for support for a decision you already made? You're clearly determined to tell the guy to go pound sand.
Feb 14 13 02:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,405
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Orca Bay Images wrote:
Is this thread just a quest for support for a decision you already made?

This thread is/was a quest for the opinions of others.  Agree or disagree doesn't matter but the decision has already been made.

Feb 14 13 02:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
E e v a
Posts: 1,723
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:

Excuse to stiff the seller?  They set up the listing with a shipping price that I agreed to pay.  I asked for double boxing, yes, but I didn't agree to pay more money.  If they could do the double boxing for the same price, there is no problem.  If they couldn't do the double boxing for the same price but did it anyway, that's not my fault or my problem.

You're not getting it. You asked for extra. Expect nothing in this world to be free. Just because you don't think it's your problem doesn't mean it's right to make them pay the extra. You benefited from the extra money spent, the seller did not. Paying the money would make it even again.

Feb 14 13 02:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 31,706
Lodi, California, US


Samantha Emme wrote:

You're not getting it. You asked for extra. Expect nothing in this world to be free. Just because you don't think it's your problem doesn't mean it's right to make them pay the extra. You benefited from the extra money spent, the seller did not. Paying the money would make it even again.

He won't get it.

Feb 14 13 03:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sweet gamine
Posts: 356
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


It isn't always double boxing that protects fragile items but rather suspending the item in the box using bubble wrap and/or styrofoam  peanuts.
I wonder how the seller intended to send your purchase before you asked for special shipping using two boxes.

Years ago I had an Ebay seller send me figurines wrapped only in newspaper within the box. They arrived smashed to smithereens. She admitted that she really had no idea of how to send them after I told her what happened.

Always best to ask how the items will be packaged before asking for more that may not even be necessary. You will need to pay the seller $12. now that they have shelled out the cost of additional packaging.
Feb 14 13 03:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14,029
San Pedro, California, US


The seller should calculate the amount it would cost to get the glasses delivered UNBROKEN. Who is going to send wine glasses in packaging that doesn't protect them? That makes no sense. So yes you should pay the extra money. But, it should have been included in the price to begin with.
Feb 14 13 03:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GK photo
Posts: 26,817
Laguna Beach, California, US


it's not even a question of ethics. it's standard contract stuff. what you did--in essence--was request work that would be considered a change order to the contract.

pay the $12.00. you're lucky they didn't request more for additional handling as well.
Feb 14 13 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,312
Columbus, Ohio, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
This is my thinking:  no matter what I ask for, it's up to the seller to ensure that the item is packed adequately enough to get to me in one working piece or refund my money.  Just because I ask for double boxing doesn't mean they have to give it to me (it doesn't matter if the item is double boxed or not as long as the items arrive intact).  Taking these things to a FedEx (or UPS) store to be packaged for them is inviting highway robbery.

  One can go to a supermarket (most of the time) and get all the free and sturdy boxes they can shake a stick at for a day.  $12 because they invited someone else to do the packaging is crazy to me.  Even if they gave me what I asked for, $12 is far more money than is necessary.

I've been packing antique glass worth hundreds, and sometimes thousands of dollars per item for years. I rarely double box and nothing has ever been broken due to my packing. In other words, I know what I'm doing.

If you want something double boxed, do you think I'm going to run all over town and do that myself? No, I'm going to take it to the closest packager and you're gonna pay the bill, whatever it is.

Why are you such a special sauce to think I'm going to visit untold amounts of stores just to find you the right size box, plus the extra packing material that will go with that?

Feb 14 13 03:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,712
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


e m i l y wrote:
I'd send them $12.  I would have thought the seller thoughtful for bringing the shipment to FedEx instead of risking doing it themselves.

This^^^

Feb 14 13 03:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,405
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Samantha Emme wrote:
You're not getting it. You asked for extra. Expect nothing in this world to be free. Just because you don't think it's your problem doesn't mean it's right to make them pay the extra. You benefited from the extra money spent, the seller did not. Paying the money would make it even again.

I didn't ask for "extra".  I asked for double boxing.  The seller could've said no.  The seller could've opted to buy insurance instead, then when/if the item arrived in a million pieces, he could've given my money back and got his back from the shipping company he hired.  I didn't *make* them pay the extra money, if they had to pay any extra.

  All I did, in effect, is ask that the item arrive safely (I've gotten a number of things recently that were broken due to inadequate packing jobs).  When I pack things, I pack them with the idea that they will be shipped by Ace Ventura personally.  I am yet to hear about even one arriving broken (unless it was broken before I sent it and described as such). 

  If getting the item as described is my "benefitting" from the money spent, okay, whatever.  If the seller opted to do an inadequate packing job, not double box and not buy insurance, I wouldn't "benefit" any and they'd lose their money, their item and possibly their reputation all at the same time.

  If this means I don't get it, I'm okay with that.  It's not the first time I disagree with seemingly everyone on a particular topic.

Feb 14 13 03:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,712
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
This is my thinking:  no matter what I ask for, it's up to the seller to ensure that the item is packed adequately enough to get to me in one working piece or refund my money.  Just because I ask for double boxing doesn't mean they have to give it to me (it doesn't matter if the item is double boxed or not as long as the items arrive intact).  Taking these things to a FedEx (or UPS) store to be packaged for them is inviting highway robbery.

  One can go to a supermarket (most of the time) and get all the free and sturdy boxes they can shake a stick at for a day.  $12 because they invited someone else to do the packaging is crazy to me.  Even if they gave me what I asked for, $12 is far more money than is necessary.

If the above is what you meant to communicate, you should NOT have suggested the double-boxing.

You could have pointed out that if the items arrive and are broken, you will be requesting a refund and left the solution to the situation up to the sender.

Feb 14 13 03:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GK photo
Posts: 26,817
Laguna Beach, California, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
All I did, in effect, is ask that the item arrive safely

too nebulous. this is why contracts have to be specific. you ordered something different than what was part of the original contract. all your what ifs could have been specified and accounted for before the item shipped. 

both parties in a transaction need to be clear about the goods and services being provided. especially on ebay, where people will say just about anything.

Feb 14 13 03:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,712
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:

Excuse to stiff the seller?  They set up the listing with a shipping price that I agreed to pay.  I asked for double boxing, yes, but I didn't agree to pay more money.  If they could do the double boxing for the same price, there is no problem.  If they couldn't do the double boxing for the same price but did it anyway, that's not my fault or my problem.

  To me, stiffing the seller would be sending them less money than they asked for to do the shipping or not paying at all. 

  If it matters, I'm also a seller.  If I tell someone the shipping is going to be $5 but it ends up costing $12 for postage alone, I'll just pay the money and the buyer will never hear about it.  If it goes the other way, I don't want to hear about it. 

  Besides, how would I know if the seller didn't get what he wanted for the item and the shipping was adequate, even with the double boxing, but he just wanted to pad his profit margin?

So, did the seller send the glasses and is asking for $12 more?  Is the seller asking for $12 more before he will send you the glasses?  Or is the seller saying that you should ask for special shipping BEFORE agreeing to a price (but the seller is going to eat the $12)?

Feb 14 13 03:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,312
Columbus, Ohio, US


Samantha Emme wrote:
You're not getting it. You asked for extra. Expect nothing in this world to be free. Just because you don't think it's your problem doesn't mean it's right to make them pay the extra. You benefited from the extra money spent, the seller did not. Paying the money would make it even again.
Lovely Day Media wrote:
I didn't ask for "extra".  I asked for double boxing.  The seller could've said no.  The seller could've opted to buy insurance instead, then when/if the item arrived in a million pieces, he could've given my money back and got his back from the shipping company he hired.  I didn't *make* them pay the extra money, if they had to pay any extra.

roll

Samantha was right, you're not getting it.
Double boxing isn't extra time, trouble & expense?

SELLER buys insurance? No dude, that isn't how it works. YOU pay for that.

You're thinking is obtuse....I got a buyer right now acting the same way. I shipped an item almost a month ago, came back addressee unknown.
He muffed the address to a high rise commercial bldg in NYC....and expects ME to pay to ship it again.

I told him 3 days ago, the box will sit by my back door until hell freezes over or he remits another $20 to ship again.

Feb 14 13 03:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,712
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:

This thread is/was a quest for the opinions of others.  Agree or disagree doesn't matter but the decision has already been made.

I see.  So you will disregard anything those who disagree with you say and latch on to what those who agree with you say...  hmm

Has anyone agreed with you yet?

Feb 14 13 03:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,300
Asheville, North Carolina, US


If I ask for an extra, I'm prepared to pay within reason unless I make it clear otherwise. I consider it good manners for someone to give me a quote on the price, but for something so minor I'd not be bothered.

and I'd pay the $12
Feb 14 13 03:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,312
Columbus, Ohio, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
Would you send the seller the $12 after the glasses arrived intact or would you invite that seller to pound sand for being too lazy to pack the things up themselves?

Oh hell, I missed this part. You wouldn't have gotten them from me until you paid the extra expense first. Jeebus haze....

Feb 14 13 03:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 31,706
Lodi, California, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
I didn't ask for "extra".  I asked for double boxing.

::blinks::
::rubs my eyes::
Yep, it's still there.

Feb 14 13 03:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GK photo
Posts: 26,817
Laguna Beach, California, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:
I got a buyer right now acting the same way. I shipped an item almost a month ago, came back addressee unknown.
He muffed the address to a high rise commercial bldg in NYC....and expects ME to pay to ship it again.

I told him 3 days ago, the box will sit by my back door until hell freezes over or he remits another $20 to ship again.

lol that is a classic. wait until he demands a refund.

Feb 14 13 03:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
E e v a
Posts: 1,723
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
I didn't ask for "extra".  I asked for double boxing.  The seller could've said no.  The seller could've opted to buy insurance instead, then when/if the item arrived in a million pieces, he could've given my money back and got his back from the shipping company he hired.  I didn't *make* them pay the extra money, if they had to pay any extra.

  All I did, in effect, is ask that the item arrive safely (I've gotten a number of things recently that were broken due to inadequate packing jobs).  When I pack things, I pack them with the idea that they will be shipped by Ace Ventura personally.  I am yet to hear about even one arriving broken (unless it was broken before I sent it and described as such). 

  If getting the item as described is my "benefitting" from the money spent, okay, whatever.  If the seller opted to do an inadequate packing job, not double box and not buy insurance, I wouldn't "benefit" any and they'd lose their money, their item and possibly their reputation all at the same time.

  If this means I don't get it, I'm okay with that.  It's not the first time I disagree with seemingly everyone on a particular topic.

DOUBLE BOXING. A single box. Plus an extra box. Correct? ITS EXTRA. Besides, why are you blaming him? He did what YOU wanted. Pay the poor guy. It's just 12 dollars that he spent out of pocket for you. Stop being cheap.

Secondly, if he didn't do what you wanted, your item probably still would've arrived okay. You didn't trust in him. That's on you, but he did what you wanted, because he was just trying to make you happy as a customer. He's in the right. You're not.

Feb 14 13 03:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Raoul Isidro Images
Posts: 5,581
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


The $12 won't help if this dude delivers the goods...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q6_9A90cUk

.
Feb 14 13 03:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,405
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Small Fruit Pits wrote:
roll

Samantha was right, you're not getting it.
Double boxing isn't extra time, trouble & expense?

SELLER buys insurance? No dude, that isn't how it works. YOU pay for that.

You're thinking is obtuse....I got a buyer right now acting the same way. I shipped an item almost a month ago, came back addressee unknown.
He muffed the address to a high rise commercial bldg in NYC....and expects ME to pay to ship it again.

I told him 3 days ago, the box will sit by my back door until hell freezes over or he remits another $20 to ship again.

Yes, the seller should buy insurance unless they want to come out of their own pocket if the item arrives not as described.  The buyer shouldn't have to buy insurance to ensure that the shipper the seller hires will deliver an item for the seller.  That's just my opinion.  You're free to disagree, especially since this isn't the issue here.

  In the case of your buyer, it's not your fault they don't know where they live.  If they sent you the correct address and you transposed 2 numbers in the zip code, I would say that's your fault and you should reship the item at your expense.  Because they botched it, they should pay.

  In this case, though, the seller could've said "I don't have to double box because I know how to pack things properly".  If the item arrives intact, there is no issue.  If I asked for something that couldn't be done for the money I agreed to pay, the seller should tell me that if I want that, it's going to cost X amount more.

Feb 14 13 03:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,405
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Gianantonio wrote:
I see.  So you will disregard anything those who disagree with you say and latch on to what those who agree with you say...  hmm

Has anyone agreed with you yet?

I didn't ask for anyone to agree with me and I'm not latching onto anyone, anyway.  No one has agreed with me (at least seemingly).  I'm okay with that.  I'm okay with everyone disagreeing to whatever degree they choose.  I only asked for opinions.  If that's wrong, sorry.

Feb 14 13 03:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 1,975
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
All I did, in effect, is ask that the item arrive safely (I've gotten a number of things recently that were broken due to inadequate packing jobs).

Not really. You made a pretty specific request, and in doing so you implied that you thought the seller was incapable of packing the item sufficiently on their own.

Do you not look at a seller's feedback prior to deciding if you will buy from them? I think that's Ebay Buyer 101. Someone with good feedback typically takes measures to  ensure their items are received in good condition, their feedback will reflect otherwise if they do not.

Feb 14 13 03:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,712
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:

I didn't ask for anyone to agree with me and I'm not latching onto anyone, anyway.  No one has agreed with me (at least seemingly).  I'm okay with that.  I'm okay with everyone disagreeing to whatever degree they choose.  I only asked for opinions.  If that's wrong, sorry.

Yes. You asked for opinions. But that's not all you did. You have been defending your pov. That indicates you do care what others think of you. Asking others' opinions suggests the same thing. I realize you might not understand yourself enough to see that. But you wouldn't have made the op if you weren't looking for some sort of validation.

Feb 14 13 03:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gianantonio
Posts: 7,712
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
I didn't ask for "extra".  I asked for double boxing.
Orca Bay Images wrote:
::blinks::
::rubs my eyes::
Yep, it's still there.

Exactly!

Feb 14 13 03:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GK photo
Posts: 26,817
Laguna Beach, California, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
Yes, the seller should buy insurance unless they want to come out of their own pocket if the item arrives not as described.  The buyer shouldn't have to buy insurance to ensure that the shipper the seller hires will deliver an item for the seller.  That's just my opinion.  You're free to disagree, especially since this isn't the issue here.

you don't buy a lot of stuff that has to be shipped, do you? try that one with amazon, or any major retail outfit that ships things.


Lovely Day Media wrote:
In this case, though, the seller could've said "I don't have to double box because I know how to pack things properly".  If the item arrives intact, there is no issue.  If I asked for something that couldn't be done for the money I agreed to pay, the seller should tell me that if I want that, it's going to cost X amount more.

you are--incorrectly--assuming way too much. you should have brought up your concerns before the item was bought. doing all this after the fact is never the right way to handle these matters anyway, and one of the main reason why ebay has become a joke.

one of the first rules in the drafting of contracts...NEVER ASSUME!

Feb 14 13 04:00 pm  Link  Quote 
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