Hey, I love my job, and I seldom complain. But today I had a meeting with a model to discuss a project. She contacted me and expressed interest, and I let her choose a café to meet up at.
And she brings her boyfriend. He's clearly in a terrible mood, tags along, and never leaves her side, sulking through the entire meeting.
What's the implication here? I must admit I felt insulted. And I'm not even casting her for anything scantily clad - this is travel photography in busy city streets.
I have other models to use for this project, but the frustrating thing is that she really has the right look, has a good portfolio, and seems like an intelligent girl. Except when it comes to something as strange as bringing a date to a business meeting, of course.
If you are paying her then YOU make the rules. If she don't like the rules, she can sit her ass at home eating cheese whiz and watching ANTM wishing it was her lol.
Chasing Shadows
Posts: 285
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
There has to be a reason she brought him, knowing what he was like. Maybe make him jealous, or piss him off. Who knows.
I had something similar happen. I would walk. Sounds like trouble down the road.
significant others are sometimes involved in the lives of their mates. go figure. and i've never viewed internet modeling as a normal job like working in a bank. to the layperson internet modeling is guys drugging girls and taping sex with the barely conscious victim (and unfortunately that does happen every now and then).
i have had a shoot with an unhappy boyfriend but the model was happy and so it worked out ok and we got some good shots anyway.
i've only ever had one meet&greet pre-shoot meeting with a model and she did bring along her husband.
A business meeting at a cafe? Hmm, why didn't you meet her at your studio or the agency? As noted above, the model/photographer business can be a bit shady. If some young lady is meeting you at a cafe you need to appreciate that a "cafe" isn't really a professional setting, so who cares if she brings along her driver/escort/boyfriend/other.
You should have cut the meeting short and moved on to the next model. You have already spent more time of this thread then the issue is worth. The warning signed are there and it not likely to get better, move on and cast a professional.
Images by MR
Posts: 6,039
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Newcomb Photography wrote: A business meeting at a cafe? Hmm, why didn't you meet her at your studio or the agency? As noted above, the model/photographer business can be a bit shady. If some young lady is meeting you at a cafe you need to appreciate that a "cafe" isn't really a professional setting, so who cares if she brings along her driver/escort/boyfriend/other.
And what's the problem with that?
Lots of business meetings are done over lunch/dinner.
Newcomb Photography wrote: A business meeting at a cafe? Hmm, why didn't you meet her at your studio or the agency?
I asked her where she wanted to meet - she picked the place.
Look, I realize that shady photographers are out there, but we were meeting in a public place. And how's bringing a morose, looming boyfriend going to help anything? If I brought my girlfriend to a business meeting with my financers I would feel like a weirdo who shows their profession very little respect.
Maybe you should do the shoot with someone else, then send copies of the pics to this "model" and her boyfriend. The vibe can't get any worse anyhow, right?
If you want her for the project just tell her she's in BUT the boyfriend is not part of the deal and cannot be anywhere in sight..... she has now met you and so has shithead so she can make a decision.... if she hesitates then remember the concept of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NEXT..
good luck
Don't forget your dealing with MM talent and the MM mentality. If you were going to hire an agency gal then you could expect professionalism. Then your recourse is to call the agency and talk with the booking agent to pitch your bitch.
Newcomb Photography wrote: A business meeting at a cafe? Hmm, why didn't you meet her at your studio or the agency? As noted above, the model/photographer business can be a bit shady. If some young lady is meeting you at a cafe you need to appreciate that a "cafe" isn't really a professional setting, so who cares if she brings along her driver/escort/boyfriend/other.
before the govt cleaned up its act, business meetings and sales calls were conducted in strip clubs. is that more professional?
what is unprofessional is bringing a third-wheel to a business meeting period. It doesnt matter if its a friend in town, a boyfriend or even your boyfriends mother. A third wheel is a distraction.
I had a preshoot meeting in a café this week. the model wanted to show me images in a print book. she didnt have access to a scanner. she had a latte with some sort of chocolate sprinkles on top. I decided to pass on the coffee. its a good thing she didnt bring her husband. it was a table for two and there were no spare chairs at that hour. he would have had to stand. A café is shady? hmmmmm your world must be a really scary place.
AVD AlphaDuctions wrote: what is unprofessional is bringing a third-wheel to a business meeting period. It doesnt matter if its a friend in town, a boyfriend or even your boyfriends mother. A third wheel is a distraction.
Since he showed up, you could ask him what is his role in the discussions between you & the model. If you don't like the answer, you can politely ask him to sit at a different table. If he insists on being underfoot, thank them both for their time, pay for their drinks, and take off.
You don't have to explain yourself. You should never be rude or abrupt or judgmental. You should be polite and the epitome of professional.
But in my book, everybody in a business meeting needs to have a reason for being there. If they don't have a reason for being there, they should be asked to leave.
Looknsee Photography wrote: You don't have to explain yourself. You should never be rude or abrupt or judgmental. You should be polite and the epitome of professional.
Agree. I was polite and friendly, and at first tried to include him in the conversation, to get them to tell me why he was tagging along. He barely answered, just sulked. She seemed intelligent and nice. I've decided to use another model.
J M
Posts: 357
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Newcomb Photography wrote: A business meeting at a cafe? Hmm, why didn't you meet her at your studio or the agency? As noted above, the model/photographer business can be a bit shady. If some young lady is meeting you at a cafe you need to appreciate that a "cafe" isn't really a professional setting, so who cares if she brings along her driver/escort/boyfriend/other.
What a load of crap, I've met tons of clients etc at cafes (not models, I don't really see the point of a pre-meeting for my work), we don't have time to just meet sit and talk, better to eat and talk kill off two stones our lunch break and meeting together. Plus it tends to be more friendly and relaxed. I jump at every opportunity to get out of the dimly lit office I do my editing in.
So . . . . because a models boyfriend was in a bad mood when you met him, you've decided to ditch the entire shoot with a model that you admit you'd really like to shoot.
Why not call and speak directly to the model and see if she intends on bringing him to the shoot? She may have dumped him by now.
Or at the very least, she has now seen how negative he acts around a photographer that she wants to work with, and realizes that she made a mistake bringing him.
Why not give her the chance to discuss things and maybe salvage the shoot with you by leaving him at home?
Are you so butt-hurt from the experience of your meeting that you are willing to not take a chance on getting the shoot that you originally wanted?
Are you sure that this business is really for you?
Ken Marcus Studios wrote: So . . . . because a models boyfriend was in a bad mood when you met him, you've decided to ditch the entire shoot with a model that you admit you'd really like to shoot.
Why not call and speak directly to the model and see if she intends on bringing him to the shoot? She may have dumped him by now.
Or at the very least, she has now seen how negative he acts around a photographer that she wants to work with, and realizes that she made a mistake bringing him.
Why not give her the chance to discuss things and maybe salvage the shoot with you by leaving him at home?
Are you so butt-hurt from the experience of your meeting that you are willing to not take a chance on getting the shoot that you originally wanted?
Are you sure that this business is really for you?
KM
Ken, I usually agree with what you say but in this instance I'm left kinda-sorta wondering?
Model brings a sulky bf to a meeting. Photographer has to expend energy for nothing trying to bring the bf into the conversation (the third wheel syndrome thats bad enough on a date but on a business meeting?). I don't see how it has to be characterized as butthurt. In a business setting if a business partner fucks up it doesn't leave me butthurt. It just leaves me finding a different supplier. What is the point of giving chances to someone who failed to act professionally? This is a business. If my supplier of paint had a fight with her partner and it affected her dealings with me I would not go find out if she had a bad day. I would go find a more reliable supplier. Why bring personal things into it at all (give her a chance) (see if she can fix things with her bf) (see if its better without him). Those are all friend/family things to do. I just don't see them as business.
what am I missing?
I agree with Ken.
If the final image is so important and if you think only "she really has the right look" among candidates, it may be worthwhile to suck up her boyfriend issue and do the shoot with her. After you get your images that you want, you'll forget about her boyfriend.
Newcomb Photography wrote: If some young lady is meeting you at a cafe you need to appreciate that a "cafe" isn't really a professional setting, so who cares if she brings along her driver/escort/boyfriend/other.
Newcomb Photography wrote: If some young lady is meeting you at a cafe you need to appreciate that a "cafe" isn't really a professional setting, so who cares if she brings along her driver/escort/boyfriend/other.
Vector 38 wrote: +1
+2
When you work over a meal, you get their meal partners as well. Otherwise, it appears you are dating. A café or coffee house is much the same.
While it absolutely can be done as a business meeting, that is something you should have made quite clear prior to the meeting.
Ken, I usually agree with what you say but in this instance I'm left kinda-sorta wondering?
Model brings a sulky bf to a meeting. Photographer has to expend energy for nothing trying to bring the bf into the conversation (the third wheel syndrome thats bad enough on a date but on a business meeting?). I don't see how it has to be characterized as butthurt. In a business setting if a business partner fucks up it doesn't leave me butthurt. It just leaves me finding a different supplier. What is the point of giving chances to someone who failed to act professionally? This is a business. If my supplier of paint had a fight with her partner and it affected her dealings with me I would not go find out if she had a bad day. I would go find a more reliable supplier. Why bring personal things into it at all (give her a chance) (see if she can fix things with her bf) (see if its better without him). Those are all friend/family things to do. I just don't see them as business.
what am I missing?
I hate Meet ups as much as TFP shoots Meets always cost you money espcialy if they bring a friend or boyfriend they eat like pigs due to the free food they get at thies meet ups Trades are the same deal they want Make up Artist Hair stylist wardrop and some times they ask for Gas money aswell add it up and you have about $100 bucks spent that you could have paid a model to just show up and pose for you for 2 hours
Newcomb Photography wrote: A business meeting at a cafe? Hmm, why didn't you meet her at your studio or the agency? As noted above, the model/photographer business can be a bit shady. If some young lady is meeting you at a cafe you need to appreciate that a "cafe" isn't really a professional setting, so who cares if she brings along her driver/escort/boyfriend/other.
It's not exactly unusual to have business meetings in restaurants, in a wide variety of businesses.
Kyle T Edwards
Posts: 291
St Catharines, Ontario, Canada
I'm going to side with Ken on this one.
If she is perfect for the shoot, bringing an annoying boyfriend to a pre-meet wouldn't be a deal breaker. Agree to the shoot, on the condition that boyfriend isn't on site, of course. After all, a shoot's a shoot, and as the saying goes, "Wounds heal. Scars fade. Glory is forever."
Bringing the BF was not that big a deal, in my book, so long as he behaved in a professional manner. Bringing the attitude would be an automatic pass for me - suppose he shows up at the job with the same attitude? Suppose you ask her not to bring him and he still shows up?
It's really no big deal for me, because the other models I can choose from are really good. The reason I needed a pre-shoot meeting this time was that the job includes video with a recorded voice over, so I had to talk with the candidates before hiring them.
RKD Photographic
Posts: 2,989
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
Hereditas wrote:
I asked her where she wanted to meet - she picked the place.
Look, I realize that shady photographers are out there, but we were meeting in a public place. And how's bringing a morose, looming boyfriend going to help anything? If I brought my girlfriend to a business meeting with my financers I would feel like a weirdo who shows their profession very little respect.
There are more shady bank executives than photographers (otherwise western economies wouldn't be going down the shitter), but you wouldn't bring a 'date' to a meeting with your bank manager unless you were setting up a joint account.
BTW I wouldn't use the term 'date' in this context - he's her 'partner' - transient or otherwise.
If you didn't like the vibe then pick someone else - and tell her the reason - she'll know better next time.
Hereditas wrote: Hey, I love my job, and I seldom complain. But today I had a meeting with a model to discuss a project. She contacted me and expressed interest, and I let her choose a café to meet up at.
And she brings her boyfriend. He's clearly in a terrible mood, tags along, and never leaves her side, sulking through the entire meeting.
What's the implication here? I must admit I felt insulted. And I'm not even casting her for anything scantily clad - this is travel photography in busy city streets.
I have other models to use for this project, but the frustrating thing is that she really has the right look, has a good portfolio, and seems like an intelligent girl. Except when it comes to something as strange as bringing a date to a business meeting, of course.
So, I shouldn't give her the gig, right?
What kind of professional business person conducts a meeting in a cafe? What kind of professional business person has to ask online about the conduct of the person their meeting with? What kind of business person sets up a meeting in a social setting?
Maybe she wouldn't have brought her boyfriend if you'd been meeting in an office. Maybe she did it for the subtext.
Maybe professional business people have meetings it teams so that they have people their for emotional support.
The reality is that if you're going to work with people early in their career in a creative field this is within the range of normal even if you don't like it. If you haven't achieved a position of enough status where you can tell her she can't being her boyfriend to the shoot and she doesn't want to do it badly enough to leave him home, then that's on you.
What kind of professional business person conducts a meeting in a cafe? What kind of professional business person has to ask online about the conduct of the person their meeting with? What kind of business person sets up a meeting in a social setting?
Maybe she wouldn't have brought her boyfriend if you'd been meeting in an office. Maybe she did it for the subtext.
Maybe professional business people have meetings it teams so that they have people their for emotional support.
The reality is that if you're going to work with people early in their career in a creative field this is within the range of normal even if you don't like it. If you haven't achieved a position of enough status where you can tell her she can't being her boyfriend to the shoot and she doesn't want to do it badly enough to leave him home, then that's on you.
All kinds of professional business people meet in cafes, restaurants, hotels, and even bars. Being in an office does not make you "professional" or "business like", your demeanor does regardless of where you actually are.
Azimuth Arts
Posts: 1,135
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
MC Photo wrote: What kind of professional business person conducts a meeting in a cafe? What kind of professional business person has to ask online about the conduct of the person their meeting with? What kind of business person sets up a meeting in a social setting?
Maybe she wouldn't have brought her boyfriend if you'd been meeting in an office. Maybe she did it for the subtext.
Maybe professional business people have meetings it teams so that they have people their for emotional support.
The reality is that if you're going to work with people early in their career in a creative field this is within the range of normal even if you don't like it. If you haven't achieved a position of enough status where you can tell her she can't being her boyfriend to the shoot and she doesn't want to do it badly enough to leave him home, then that's on you.
David Kirk wrote: All kinds of professional business people meet in cafes, restaurants, hotels, and even bars. Being in an office does not make you "professional" or "business like", your demeanor does regardless of where you actually are.
+1.
I am in Las Vegas on business right now. I expect to be meeting up with other business professionals during the course of the week. These will be people traveling from other cities as well. The choice of locations for meetings will be restaurants and bars, or the corridors outside the meeting rooms. None of us will have an office here. It's possible one or two of my contacts might have a hospitality suite in the hotel.
I am pretty sure we will manage to be professional while taking these meetings. My wife is traveling with me, but she will not be attending any of the meetings, she'll be too busy playing poker.
OP - If you didn't get a good feel from the model then passing is totally fine. However, since you seem to think that other than the boyfriend tag-along she is right for the part and seems like a decent person why not give her a shot to come to your shoot under the terms you set?
Karl Johnston
Posts: 7,257
Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada
The problem is with you - not your client - you said that *you* felt personally insulted. You don't matter half as much as they do.
If you don't recognize this, and you say stuff like this:
Hereditas wrote: I have other models to use for this project, but the frustrating thing is that she really has the right look, has a good portfolio, and seems like an intelligent girl. Except when it comes to something as strange as bringing a date to a business meeting, of course.
So, I shouldn't give her the gig, right?
I really have to wonder. I see some stupid stuff on here sometimes but this makes me wonder whether I should laugh or cry.
Karl Johnston wrote: The problem is with you - not your client - you said that *you* felt personally insulted. You don't matter half as much as they do.
If you don't recognize this, and you say stuff like this:
I really have to wonder. I see some stupid stuff on here sometimes but this makes me wonder whether I should laugh or cry.
Passive aggression is always entertaining, so thank you for making me smile
Most people here on MM are polite and interesting to discuss with. And then there are the keyboard warriors with anger issues.
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