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first12
Photographer
Mark in MTL
Posts: 1,045
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


Don't expect a whole lot of professionalism on this site. Anyone can join.

There are some pros on here but the percentage seems to be getting smaller every year.

The thing is you have some erotic photos of yourself on a site anyone can join and have the ability to contact you. So yes, you are going to get some creepers. No defending them. Just sayin'.
Feb 17 13 09:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,338
Salem, Oregon, US


i normally pay rack rates but have had other photographers tell me i should have been able to get a significant rate reduction by negotiating.

partly with mayhem i think it takes a while to get used to how things work around here.

David Westlake wrote:
The OP also complained about a photographer offering her less than the rate she quoted. As long as nobody gets rude this is called negotiation, it is done in all businesses.

Feb 17 13 10:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,338
Salem, Oregon, US


yes, i think some photographers think they are in the VIP lounge. but even at strip clubs you can get tossed for whipping it out unless it's a "jack shack" or the stripper is bending the rules. so really some photographers are acting like they hired an llama herder. and maybe the reality is some models are also llama herders but that's not supposed to be happening on mayhem.

i've photographed strippers and they were very professional about the modeling. they are two different things entirely.

Kyle T Edwards wrote:
Most of my shoots have been glamour or nude, and I've never even thought about doing that.  Forget thinking about it seriously, I mean even remotely considering it.  Do they think they're in the Champagne Room or something?  That is 32 flavours of messed up!!

Feb 17 13 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,338
Salem, Oregon, US


i know models who shoot your style but here for the most part they choose to highlight the art nudes and then maybe in the profile they reference the racier options. just a thought since it seemed like you were ready to quit over the unwanted attention.

i have seen some models say that the unwanted attention started to die down after a while.

Aaliyah Love wrote:
I'm not going to change the pics in my port, that is the type of modeling I do, this is my body of work.

Feb 17 13 10:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,323
Orlando, Florida, US


Something I noticed in your profile is that you specifically say you'll only work with reputable photographers and no GWCs. Well, reputable photographers rarely pay to shoot models, and when they do, it's usually to sell. 

The GWC is what you're looking for. That guy will pay you $200 to have you come and allow him to shoot you nude for a couple of hours.  Not all GWCs are handsy weirdos who will keep pushing for more and more through the shoot. Some are just hobbyists with a little pocket money who want to spend it.

So take a page from your own book and drop that bit of unprofessionalism from your profile. Seek out the 2 hour shoots and fill your weeks with them. There are hundreds of photographers on this site in the greater L.A. area. You can make a fine living shooting with them if you're smart.

I'm currently visiting with one doing just that.
Feb 17 13 11:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PocketChangeProductions
Posts: 87
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


If they're contacting you for TF work then their attention to detail is absolutely lacking since your port says paid assignments only. Getting rude like that is out of line, feel free to block/report them so that natural selection may take it's course.
Feb 17 13 07:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Project4145
Posts: 338
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
The GWC is what you're looking for. That guy will pay you $200 to have you come and allow him to shoot you nude for a couple of hours.  Not all GWCs are handsy weirdos who will keep pushing for more and more through the shoot. Some are just hobbyists with a little pocket money who want to spend it.

I agree with Greg.  And many of them can actually shoot.

Feb 17 13 07:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ecklipse
Posts: 86
Los Angeles, California, US


Aaliyah Love wrote:
I am constantly discouraged and disappointed when I log onto this website and check my emails. Today alone, I got 4 emails. 2 of which are asking me out on dates, and another called me a bitch because I simply stated "sorry, I don't do TP work, as stated in my bio." (the 4th was fine, from a photographer offering me well below my rate, but we will discuss it and maybe work it out in one way or another, I hope)
This is the typical type of correspondence I have been getting on this website since I joined last year. I have encountered more "creepers" looking to get laid, or basically complete assholes who insult me, call me names, use curse words when I tell them that I'm not currently avail to do TP, or completely unprofessional people who have absolutely nothing to offer me. (even if they were amazing photographers, the way they talk to me, someone they've never even met, is a sign that I wouldn't want to work with them, ever)
I'm just wondering if this is the same experience the other models are getting here and if there's something that can be done?
I am already an experienced model who has pretty good luck with booking shoots with and without my agent, and I came to this website to meet and hopefully work with like minded people. I thought I would be able to book some extra shoots and create some amazing art with photographers and models I haven't met in LA yet, but do far this hasn't happened, and I'm so discouraged I'm about to delete my account:(

An apologize in the name of those "photographers".... we, real photographers (good or bad photographers, but professionals)  just want to work, not looking to date or get laid with models and we┬┤ll never be rude toward them. That kind of people give us bad reputation, but most of us are not like that

Feb 18 13 03:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Velvet Paper Photo
Posts: 468
Lexington, Kentucky, US


Aaliyah Love wrote:
and another email from earlier today:

he asks me for a TP shoot.
my reply:
sorry but I'm not avail for trade shoots, as stated in my bio.
his reply:
Update your listing then, as when you search it says TFP or Depends on Assignment.
And stop being such a bi0tch. ; )
my reply:
Well thank you for letting me know, I am new to this website and if I can figure out how, I will change my bio asap. But I don't appreciate being called a bitch because of it, even if you did put a smiley face after it.
I wouldn't talk to someone wanting to shoot with that way, nor would I work with someone who talks to models that way:/
his reply:
Well, then you shouldn't have such an aloof attitude.  Face it, you were rude, and so I will talk that way, because I'm not going to be disrespected.  : )


so I was being "aloof" and a "bitch" and "disrespecting him" because I stated I don't do TP? seriously? maybe I should have put smiley faces after my sentences and kissed his ass and apologized instead of being direct and to the point? ugh.. stuff like this just frustrates me and turns me off to this website. hmm

Some men can't handle women who don't bow down with respect at their beck & call.  Seriously.  That's all that is.  ^

Feb 18 13 03:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jackson frontier photos
Posts: 531
Joplin, Missouri, US


It's not just the models who have to sort through unmotivated, immature, and unsavory members.  It sucks for all involved but what did you expect?  Professionals who always act professionally?  What planet does that happen on?
Feb 18 13 03:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chasing Shadows
Posts: 302
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


This type of behavior is in every business. I am a consultant and work in all types of large and small corporations and government offices.

I find most are nice people with great maturity levels, but some are jerks and treat others badly.

It is not just MM - it's people in all industries. Just never let them win. Ignore and move on. It drives them nuts being ignored.
Feb 18 13 03:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jackson frontier photos
Posts: 531
Joplin, Missouri, US


Velvet Paper Photo wrote:
Some men can't handle women who don't bow down with respect at their beck & call.  Seriously.  That's all that is.  ^

deleted, misread.

Feb 18 13 03:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sharfman Photography
Posts: 213
Purcell, Oklahoma, US


First in my best fake Latin "Illegitimi non carborundum" meaning "Don't let the bastards grind you down"

Block, block, block........

As one of those amateurs who pays to work with quality talent, I would be thrilled to negotiate a shoot with you should you get out here to the heartland.  I have been honored to work with some of the best talent on MM and occasionally have had to say, "I am sorry I can not afford your rate.  Thank you for your time on this matter."  I would never be offended by a pro who charges more than I can afford.  I am however offended by the "wannabees" who have done three shoots and want $200/hr.  Your experience is worth paying for.
Feb 18 13 03:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Broughton
Posts: 2,220
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


if all else fails, move to canada. smile
Feb 18 13 11:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Aaliyah Love
Posts: 113
Los Angeles, California, US


Project4145 wrote:

I agree with Greg.  And many of them can actually shoot.

good point you two, I never really thought of it that way. I've been shooting for years and everyone who pays my rate is most def a professional photographer and NOT a GWC but I am realizing everything on this website is different than the world I'm used to. I guess I'll update my bio but even then I'm not going to get my hopes up very high. I took MM off of my bookmarks today so I won't be visiting here very much anymore. Just to check my email occassionally:/

Feb 19 13 11:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In frame
Posts: 246
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Aaliyah Love wrote:
I am constantly discouraged and disappointed when I log onto this website and check my emails. Today alone, I got 4 emails. 2 of which are asking me out on dates, and another called me a bitch because I simply stated "sorry, I don't do TP work, as stated in my bio." (the 4th was fine, from a photographer offering me well below my rate, but we will discuss it and maybe work it out in one way or another, I hope)
This is the typical type of correspondence I have been getting on this website since I joined last year. I have encountered more "creepers" looking to get laid, or basically complete assholes who insult me, call me names, use curse words when I tell them that I'm not currently avail to do TP, or completely unprofessional people who have absolutely nothing to offer me. (even if they were amazing photographers, the way they talk to me, someone they've never even met, is a sign that I wouldn't want to work with them, ever)
I'm just wondering if this is the same experience the other models are getting here and if there's something that can be done?
I am already an experienced model who has pretty good luck with booking shoots with and without my agent, and I came to this website to meet and hopefully work with like minded people. I thought I would be able to book some extra shoots and create some amazing art with photographers and models I haven't met in LA yet, but do far this hasn't happened, and I'm so discouraged I'm about to delete my account:(

Feb 19 13 12:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In frame
Posts: 246
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Aaliyah Love wrote:
I am constantly discouraged and disappointed when I log onto this website and check my emails. Today alone, I got 4 emails. 2 of which are asking me out on dates, and another called me a bitch because I simply stated "sorry, I don't do TP work, as stated in my bio." (the 4th was fine, from a photographer offering me well below my rate, but we will discuss it and maybe work it out in one way or another, I hope)
This is the typical type of correspondence I have been getting on this website since I joined last year. I have encountered more "creepers" looking to get laid, or basically complete assholes who insult me, call me names, use curse words when I tell them that I'm not currently avail to do TP, or completely unprofessional people who have absolutely nothing to offer me. (even if they were amazing photographers, the way they talk to me, someone they've never even met, is a sign that I wouldn't want to work with them, ever)
I'm just wondering if this is the same experience the other models are getting here and if there's something that can be done?
I am already an experienced model who has pretty good luck with booking shoots with and without my agent, and I came to this website to meet and hopefully work with like minded people. I thought I would be able to book some extra shoots and create some amazing art with photographers and models I haven't met in LA yet, but do far this hasn't happened, and I'm so discouraged I'm about to delete my account:(

Feb 19 13 12:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In frame
Posts: 246
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


G'Day mate ,,,tell them to bugger off or just delete the emails its easy also report them and get them pissed off the site ,,easy smile

your modelling is  wonderful to look t ...shame if you close it down !!!

Regards to you from downunder
Feb 19 13 12:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Kristiana-Retouch
Posts: 289
London, England, United Kingdom


Just ignore or report. There's nothing more you can do about it.
Keep calm and concentrated to your work smile
Feb 19 13 12:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,577
Salinas, California, US


Aaliyah Love wrote:
good point you two, I never really thought of it that way. I've been shooting for years and everyone who pays my rate is most def a professional photographer and NOT a GWC but I am realizing everything on this website is different than the world I'm used to. I guess I'll update my bio but even then I'm not going to get my hopes up very high. I took MM off of my bookmarks today so I won't be visiting here very much anymore. Just to check my email occassionally:/

Hello Aaliyah!  I'd like to add that Modelmayhem is much like Facebook in that you get any and all sorts of people from around the World communicating on the site.  It's not a controlled situation like a subscription site would be.  Anybody can pretty much join if they fill out the fields correctly and post some images. 

Here is what you wrote on your profile Bio; I have a long list of photographers and models I have worked with who can all vouch for my professional and positive attitude. To be honest, I think the only complaint anybody who has worked with me could have about me is that sometimes I can be overly critical of myself and my work. This is only because I'm a perfectionist ...   Well you can't change your personality, and I for one, certainly wouldn't want you to!  But you will get "hit on" by horny guys wanting a date with you no matter if it's on here, Facebook, some other websites you are on, and also in person when you go out around other people.

I've checked out your twitter, your website and presence online.  You are an Internet Model!  It doesn't matter if you keep your account here or not, it's no doubt that you'll continue to get "hit on" else where too.  You can't control those men (and women) who can't control their own urges to act upon their sexual attraction to you, BUT you CAN control your reaction along with your response to those unwanted requests.  Consider making a plan for those incidents.

Decide in your own mind how you're going to turn down those unwanted requests for dates and other offers that you are not interested in.  Depending on your personality, you can even "copy & paste" a standard response.  I know of Internet models that do that because they get so many requests from admirers.   You can be kind and flattered but "no thanks" or you can be mean ... it's up to you.   The fact is that you are in control of your response!  Also you can "Report & Block!" those that continue.

I often work with Internet models since I have websites, and provide content.  I don't think you really want to be turning away potential fans?  This isn't Facebook, but many of us have profiles and pages on Facebook.  Just as you can block and report those who've crossed the line there, you can block and report them here too.  Most people here on Modelmayhem are rude or crude.  I hope you stay and continue to find success every where you are on the 'net!  Best wishes!   smile

Feb 19 13 01:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1,125
San Diego, California, US


I'm very sorry to hear you are being bugged like this, the public are here on MM and so that's what they think they can get away with with you.

;-(

I help many young people set up profile or portfolio here and they have never reported getting this kind of response or low life ... especially about being 'a bitch' that's just awful! I hope you get them banned.

However there are reasons YOU are attracting this reaction from your profile / portfolio ...

1) The profile wording sounds like you are nagging
THE TIME TO SAY YOU ARE TOO BUSY IS IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED AFTER THEY CONTACT YOU.

2) You peppered your front page with capitals, this annoys people  ;-)
...didn't mine annoy you?

3) You should have your best images on MM so photographers would not reasonably expect you to be open to TFCD

4) Images are posted that have your own name as a logo on them rather than the photographers, and images marked that you also have the copyright with the photographer might upset them....

5) Since you have adopted and posted a Stripper Name and  look you might be viewed and treated as such. So you are eliciting that. While many strippers might make great models ... models who are not strippers try hard to show that there is a difference

If you show your best work, respect for yourself and the photographers reading ...visualize the good ones and 'talk' to them intelligently on your profile, I hope you will get more respectful correspondence.

Which is not to excuse those who were not.

Just hoping to help you see why this is might be coming at you, so you can take steps!

There actually ARE lots of very nice, creative and amazing artists here. Attract professionals with your own professional input.
Don't waste your energy or answer those you are not interested in positive discussion with!

Best wishes   
EUP
Feb 19 13 01:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Expression Unlimited
Posts: 1,125
San Diego, California, US


Patrick Walberg wrote:
... turn down those unwanted requests for dates and other offers that you are not interested in.  Depending on your personality, you can even "copy & paste" a standard response.  I know of Internet models that do that because they get so many requests from admirers.   You can be kind and flattered but "no thanks" or you can be mean ... it's up to you.   The fact is that you are in control of your response!  Also you can "Report & Block!" those that continue.

...  I hope you stay and continue to find success every where you are on the 'net!  Best wishes!   smile

Agreed, Hi Patrick! Well said.

Feb 19 13 01:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,577
Salinas, California, US


Expression Unlimited wrote:
I'm very sorry to hear you are being bugged like this, the public are here on MM and so that's what they think they can get away with with you.

;-(

Best wishes    B

NO CRITIQUES ON THIS SECTION OF THE FORUM!  < It's an MM forum rule!

You just gave a rather detailed critique of her profile and her images!  That is a "no no!"  So please remove it before the moderators get a hold of you.

If she wants a critique, she can post there.  I posted in critiques once and got my ass handed back to me on a platter!  Seriously, I suck rotten eggs as a photographer to some of those people!

Feb 19 13 01:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MichaelClements
Posts: 1,739
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia


Damned it. I really should be in LA.
Feb 19 13 01:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rayne Tupelo
Posts: 21
Louisa, Virginia, US


While I frequently get requests for shooting far below my rates with GWCs, I've never been asked out on MM.  Like others, I'm wondering if this is a genre thing, since I do art nudes, not glamour.  I used to get a lot of unprofessional correspondence when I had "erotic" checked off as one of my genres, but since I pruned down my genres, most of the correspondence I get is professional and respectful.
Feb 20 13 08:49 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


You know what? I've been converted. I'm turning off Jay-Z "99 Problems" and I'm going to crank Gloria Gaynor's "I Will Survive" right now. I think I'll follow that up with Helen Reddy's "I Am Woman."
Feb 20 13 08:56 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Scarlett Renee
Posts: 217
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


I guess I am not a part of the club. I very rarely receive those types of messages and have never had a photographer try to hook up with me. I have had a couple of very fresh remarks.... that's about it. It's really baffling for me to hear about this kind of stuff because I always think "well what the heck are you doing? I never get that shit..."

Maybe people just know I will beat them to within an inch of their lives. Who knows.
Feb 21 13 04:59 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Aaliyah Love
Posts: 113
Los Angeles, California, US


Expression Unlimited wrote:
I'm very sorry to hear you are being bugged like this, the public are here on MM and so that's what they think they can get away with with you.

;-(

I help many young people set up profile or portfolio here and they have never reported getting this kind of response or low life ... especially about being 'a bitch' that's just awful! I hope you get them banned.

However there are reasons YOU are attracting this reaction from your profile / portfolio ...

1) The profile wording sounds like you are nagging
THE TIME TO SAY YOU ARE TOO BUSY IS IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED AFTER THEY CONTACT YOU.

2) You peppered your front page with capitals, this annoys people  ;-)
...didn't mine annoy you?

3) You should have your best images on MM so photographers would not reasonably expect you to be open to TFCD

4) Images are posted that have your own name as a logo on them rather than the photographers, and images marked that you also have the copyright with the photographer might upset them....

5) Since you have adopted and posted a Stripper Name and  look you might be viewed and treated as such. So you are eliciting that. While many strippers might make great models ... models who are not strippers try hard to show that there is a difference

If you show your best work, respect for yourself and the photographers reading ...visualize the good ones and 'talk' to them intelligently on your profile, I hope you will get more respectful correspondence.

Which is not to excuse those who were not.

Just hoping to help you see why this is might be coming at you, so you can take steps!

There actually ARE lots of very nice, creative and amazing artists here. Attract professionals with your own professional input.
Don't waste your energy or answer those you are not interested in positive discussion with!

Best wishes   
EUP

I am not a stripper not have I ever been. I shoot nudes tho, yes. I don't think I am "eliciting" harassment posting fine art nudes on what is supposed to be a website full of photographers and models? The kind of pics on my profile is the kind of photography I usually shoot, so no need for me to change my images.
And the watermarks on the pictures are because I own them, I paid my photographers to shoot them and they have signed the rights over to me. I haven't upset any photographers whom have worked with me, people I have already worked with are never the problem.
I am sure you're only trying to help, but I don't see how any part of my bio does not show "respect for myself and those I work with" or would "elicit" any sort of unprofessional responses I am getting.
Actually, I like my bio and my pics just fine, I don't think I was asking anybody's advice on all of that..

Feb 22 13 03:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Aaliyah Love
Posts: 113
Los Angeles, California, US


Really I was just absolutely fed up and needed to vent that night. And I did it with this thread and have gotten many positive responses back. I thank you all for them and your advice.
I just have to accept this website and it's potential for booking shoots for myself for what it really is and not what I expected/wanted it to be. I have taken it off of my bookmarks toolbar and will check back periodically to check my emails for any professional and serious shoot offers, but that's about it:/
Feb 22 13 03:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 27,478
Dearborn, Michigan, US


I photograph nude models often.  I haven't dated any of them yet.
Feb 22 13 04:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Natural Means
Posts: 553
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Aaliyah Love wrote:
I am constantly discouraged and disappointed when I log onto this website and check my emails. Today alone, I got 4 emails. 2 of which are asking me out on dates, and another called me a bitch because I simply stated "sorry, I don't do TP work, as stated in my bio." (the 4th was fine, from a photographer offering me well below my rate, but we will discuss it and maybe work it out in one way or another, I hope)
This is the typical type of correspondence I have been getting on this website since I joined last year. I have encountered more "creepers" looking to get laid, or basically complete assholes who insult me, call me names, use curse words when I tell them that I'm not currently avail to do TP, or completely unprofessional people who have absolutely nothing to offer me. (even if they were amazing photographers, the way they talk to me, someone they've never even met, is a sign that I wouldn't want to work with them, ever)
I'm just wondering if this is the same experience the other models are getting here and if there's something that can be done?
I am already an experienced model who has pretty good luck with booking shoots with and without my agent, and I came to this website to meet and hopefully work with like minded people. I thought I would be able to book some extra shoots and create some amazing art with photographers and models I haven't met in LA yet, but do far this hasn't happened, and I'm so discouraged I'm about to delete my account:(

Sorry your being harassed by slimeballs.

May I suggest (without this being taken as a criticism of your portfolio - which is fantastic btw) that you profile is long, poorly structured, and hard to read. I was genuinely interested in what you were saying based on the distressing OP, but tbh I just couldn't focus all the way through.

A bit of wordsmithing 'might' make it more obvious about your expectations.

Try some dot points, short, sharp and to the point. Its easier to read, understand and just as important easier to keep up to date.

Say it once, say it clear, and as the dude in Hawaii five 0 use to say - "Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts"

And bio's are hard, its a balance between being interested, flexible, enthusiastic, not a diva etc etc, and at the same time being strong, with limits, and expect standards of behaviour.

As others have said perhaps people are contacting you with poorly thought through messages, that doesn't necessarily make them weirdos or creep, be prepared to look further, check their tags and references, you may get a nice surprise to go with the bad surprises.

And when that doesn't work, CAM the fuckers till their nosed bleed!

Good luck

Feb 22 13 05:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
Two Pears Studio
Posts: 3,335
Wilmington, Delaware, US


First off sorry for the rudeness you may have encountered here on mm. If people are inappropriate CAM them. Chances are you are not their first creep.

Next edit your profile to talk less about what you don't want and more about what you want. People have many reasons to be creeps, but the less ammo you can give them the better. What you don't want can be a flag to creep. It is open to interpretation, where what you want is not. The more specific and measurable.

A great example is a friend of mine told her husband that she didn't want him working in the office late any more... so he joined a bowling league.

You don't want gwc, but not all gwc see themselves that way. You don't want porn,  but the photographer thinks what they do is art. You don't want to date, but casual sex is not dating.

Clear, professional and measurable requests keep you un bustable. If they deviate then you can go back to what you wanted and either adjust or say it isn't what you said you wanted.

You can use this tool in all aspects of life.
Feb 23 13 06:18 am  Link  Quote 
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