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first12
Photographer
Swank Photography
Posts: 18,986
Key West, Florida, US


hbutz New York wrote:
Those who learned on a stick shift understand their cars better than those who learned on an automatic transmission.  Those who started in film have a deeper understanding of photography.

Bullshit. Not true in the least (on BOTH examples). But keep with that fantasy if it makes you happy smile

Feb 18 13 04:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 4,614
Antioch, California, US


Bella la Bell wrote:
I have taken a film class before and it honestly was not as bad as this one.

I am now getting sick every time I enter the developing room. The chemicals are beyond what I need to be around... let us say this is 3rd time I have vomited it is that bad.
This is the 2nd roll of film I have developed and it was over exposed to the point of useless...

This will be the first art class I am now thinking about dropping. .

Thank you digital photographers for now having that awful smell on you when you shoot. And thank you film photographers for being patient as can be.

First, the darkroom needs to have EXCELLENT ventilation, if it does not, your school is leaving itself wide open to all kinds of claims.

Second- While your reaction to the chemicals sounds extreme, --it is still your body trying to tell you something- Take care of your health!

Make sure you have zero skin contact. Probably the most common problem I was aware of among darkroom dwellers was dermatitis.

And, ultimately, if you continue having these issues----- smile Digital may be _your_ answer smile

I began processing film and prints when I was 13. Who knows---maybe _that_ is why I am the way I am smile


Digital Photo PLUS wrote:
Why are you wasting your time on film photography? Was it your choice?

You don't need to learn how to drive a horse buggy to learn how to drive a car.

Maybe she desires an education in things other than digital? Maybe she has a thirst for experience and knowledge beyond current technology.

I applaud her energy, and her desire to learn.

And, while you most certainly DO NOT have to learn to shoot and process film to learn the nuts and bolts of photography, at least in my limited experience, those that have done so seem to have the quickest and deepest basis to build on...YMMV

Feb 18 13 04:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kincaid Blackwood
Posts: 23,304
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Digital Photo PLUS wrote:
Why are you wasting your time on film photography? Was it your choice?

You don't need to learn how to drive a horse buggy to learn how to drive a car.

Some people just like to shoot film. Ever consider that? Shooting film is not the horse-buggy equivalent of photography. Digital hasn't been the professional standard for even a decade while film was that for over a century. That's like saying that iPads are cars and a Razr is a horse & buggy. No, maybe a rotary phone would be a horse & buggy.

Maybe daguerreotypes are horse & buggy but film in general? Ridiculous. That and there are professionals and amateurs who still shoot film. Because they want to.

Waste of time? Get a clue.



And to be clear: I haven't shot a roll of film in 3 or 4 years but I could if I felt so inclined.

Feb 18 13 05:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bunny 007
Posts: 274
Cheltenham, England, United Kingdom


Do you know which solution is causing the problem?  Developers don't normally smell, so - assuming you're not onto print toning yet - the likely culprits are the stop bath or fixer.  Stop bath is about 2% acetic acid, but this can be replaced with non-smelling citric acid (about a heaped teaspoon per litre of water), or a plain water rinse with running water in the case of films.  But an acid stop is recommended for the dish development of prints.

As for fixer, non-acid versions may be available for use in 'alternative' printing processes - salt, kallitype, VDB, etc.  Try asking at Bostick & Sullivan or Photographers' Formulary.  Alternatively, make up your own with 200 g sodium thiosuphate (5H2O) per litre plus (optionally) about 20 g of anhydrous sodium sulphite - again, try asking at the above suppliers.  (And note that this plain hypo fix is slower and has only about half the capacity of modern 'rapid' fixers.)

Repeated contact with photographic chemicals can cause sensitivity to develop later in life ('sensitisation'), and the chances are that you'll be susceptible, so keep your fingers out of the chemistry as far as possible, or wear gloves.  I splashed about in dishes and tanks quite happily for about 40 years but even brief contact with developers now causes painful sores.  In my case the pH (alkalinity) of the solutions is responsible, but metol, one of the developing agents in many common developers, can become a problem for many people.
Feb 18 13 05:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tropical Photography
Posts: 35,250
Sarasota, Florida, US


Swank Photography wrote:

Bullshit. Not true in the least (on BOTH examples). But keep with that fantasy if it makes you happy smile

The car example probably not the best but the film one is not bullshit. I've dealt with many digital babies and many I've come across really don't have a good grasp of basics. They're relying too much on the camera.

Next time you're in Tampa Bay, let me know and I'll put you to the same challenge I did my students. All manual, 36 shots and NO LCD!!!  Let's see how you fair.

Feb 18 13 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tropical Photography
Posts: 35,250
Sarasota, Florida, US


Guss W wrote:

Spray and pray is a separate issue.  It was there with film too - motor drive if you could afford it.

But anyway, you've just told us that if taught right, the lasting techniques can be done with digital.

Actually the motor drives were typically used by sports people or even wildlife shooters. When you learned on film you also learned every shot was a dollar sign. So you really put more thought before shooting. The spray and pray isn't hoping to catch the peak moment but just hoping you get a good shot. Far cry from using a motor drive.

Feb 18 13 06:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R E Baker Photography
Posts: 89
Owego, New York, US


I shot with film and all the dark room type work for over 30 years before I went  digital, some times I miss the dark room for the printing process.  I never liked processing film.

When I was working with my RB67 I just couldn't shoot like crazy and hope for the best.  Hell every time I hit the shutter release I saw dollar signs flying out of my wallet.  And there was no little window to see how thing went.

I relied on the FACT that I knew what I was doing.

I love digital but I would never never never regret learning how to do things with film and the wet dark room!
Feb 18 13 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14,029
San Pedro, California, US


It would be lovely if more people were into film if for no other reason than to bring the prices down! It is getting so expensive. Even with doing my own processing.
Feb 18 13 08:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,022
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


You guys are cute lol
Feb 19 13 06:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14,029
San Pedro, California, US


SPRINGHEEL  wrote:
You guys are cute lol

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/307/686/60e.png

Feb 19 13 06:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,022
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


Andialu wrote:

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/307/686/60e.png

Well, this is completely insulting and 100% bullshit as well.

Thanks for the understanding of the art form of teen-aged boys become gentetic freaks, dillhole.

Feb 19 13 06:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14,029
San Pedro, California, US


SPRINGHEEL  wrote:

Well, this is completely insulting and 100% bullshit as well.

Thanks for the understanding of the art form of teen-aged boys become gentetic freaks, dillhole.

If it wasn't for Spiderman you couldn't have Qaptain Horse defender of the bungholeverse!

http://skylinemediainc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/project-superhero.jpg

Feb 19 13 06:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,022
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


Andialu wrote:
If it wasn't for Spiderman you couldn't have Qaptain Horse defender of the bungholeverse!

http://skylinemediainc.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/project-superhero.jpg

I bet he just reeks of Dectol and loneliness like everything else in this sad little thread about dinosaurs

Feb 19 13 06:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14,029
San Pedro, California, US


SPRINGHEEL  wrote:

I bet he just reeks of Dectol and sadness like everything else in this sad little thread about dinosaurs

Back to the topic. A person can become just as fluent in photography without ever loading a roll of film. I just happen to enjoy it.

Feb 19 13 06:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,022
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


Andialu wrote:

Back to the topic. A person can become just as fluent in photography without ever loading a roll of film. I just happen to enjoy it.

I agree.  I give absolutely zero fucks about film.  Never bothered with it, never wanted to.  If it weren't for digital, I would have never even picked up a camera

Feb 19 13 06:37 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Model Sarah
Posts: 38,736
Columbus, Ohio, US


Poses wrote:

Andialu wrote:
...
I completely agree. I'm developing a few rolls when I get home today. I love how it makes you more methodical in how you shoot. And the anticipation when waiting to see what you've got after developing and making a contact sheet. big_smile
...

When I had the means to shoot film, I never really knew what I would get--I used to experiment with pushing film and using unusual film-developer combos. Once developed, I'd scan them to see what information could be gotten from them, and then I'd move to make prints. A lot of beautiful, haunting low-light images could be produced.

I never found the same thrill in digital. So sterile. It's good for documentary purposes, and some people know how to work magic with the end results, but I always prefer a more tactile approach to art making.

OP: you should definitely make sure that things are well-ventilated when you do them. I've developed film in a basement bathroom without major smell issues thanks to the vent. If you feel it's affecting your health, I would talk to your instructor about it.

Yeah, I'm the same way. I had a dslr for a year and a half and hated it. It just was not helping me create, it was hindering it. I picked up my film camera again and once again I could see the bigger picture. Developing film for me, is somewhat of a therapy. I had two rolls of film that were sitting for 6 months. I developed them and scanned the negatives and felt this calm come over me. The sitting in the bathroom putting the roll on the spool, and then setting the timer to develop, stop, and fix and then washing it all off. Hanging the negatives and then seeing the picture that i took six months ago come out beautifully. It's like a Christmas present!

Film isn't dead, it just smells funny. smile

Feb 19 13 06:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14,029
San Pedro, California, US


Model Sarah wrote:
Yeah, I'm the same way. I had a dslr for a year and a half and hated it. It just was not helping me create, it was hindering it. I picked up my film camera again and once again I could see the bigger picture. Developing film for me, is somewhat of a therapy. I had two rolls of film that were sitting for 6 months. I developed them and scanned the negatives and felt this calm come over me. The sitting in the bathroom putting the roll on the spool, and then setting the timer to develop, stop, and fix and then washing it all off. Hanging the negatives and then seeing the picture that i took six months ago come out beautifully. It's like a Christmas present!

Film isn't dead, it just smells funny. smile

That's one part I don't like! Rolling the film onto the spool using a dark bag. My arms get all sweaty. That causes the film to get soft. That makes it more of a bitch to get onto the spool. 120 isn't so bad but 35mm is a bitch.

I need to rig a system that pumps air into the bag.

Feb 19 13 06:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
The F-Stop
Posts: 1,435
New York, New York, US


The chemicals shouldn't be as bad as you say.. maybe someone fumed the acids in there by pouring water into concentrates instead of the other way round?

Ventilation not working?

Something is not right and should be reported ASAP.

Very little smell in my darkroom or any I have ever worked in.

.
Feb 19 13 08:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,451
Kansas City, Missouri, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
How long are you spending in the darkroom?

I feel your pain BTW. Back when I was shooting film & could spend 5+ hours at a stretch, I can honestly say (probably because of breathing all those chemical fumes) I never had an insomniac night like I do now.

W/o knowing how long or what it is that's making you sick, I'd start w/ a ratio to give (presumably) your lungs a break. Like forcing you to take a 20 minute break for every 40.

BTW, talk to your art teacher about this!

I am normally working around the chemicals for 4hrs or so. I am going to ask for more breaks.  Sadly I can't believe I am thinking about dropping the class.

Feb 20 13 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,451
Kansas City, Missouri, US


hbutz New York wrote:

Those who learned on a stick shift understand their cars better than those who learned on an automatic transmission.  Those who started in film have a deeper understanding of photography.

The accumulation of knowledge is never a waste of time.  It's why the Boy Scouts still teach the art of making fire when matches are plentiful, for example.  Knowledge is power.

Very good points. I also ironically drive a manual, and it does make you more aware of understanding a car.

Feb 20 13 01:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,451
Kansas City, Missouri, US


Guss W wrote:

Have you figured out why yet?  Were you following what your hand-held meter said?

Yes. I just made a huge mistake.  Happens to all of us.

Feb 20 13 01:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 9,269
Seattle, Washington, US


Digital Photo PLUS wrote:
Why are you wasting your time on film photography? Was it your choice?

You don't need to learn how to drive a horse buggy to learn how to drive a car.

May be she wants to advance, like using her 4x5 camera?

Feb 20 13 01:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,451
Kansas City, Missouri, US


Raoul Isidro Images wrote:

If you are the only one with this symptom, then it must be an isolated case.

If several of your are feeling this, then it is a matter of Environmental Health and Safety protocol to fix this problem, which is usually lack of adequate ventilation.

The school you are enrolled in, stand to default their license by providing dangerous levels of exposure of hazardous chemicals to students.

If you have the spare time:

Read This
V
V
V
http://www.subclub.org/darkroom/safety.htm

.

Thank you. This is a helpful link. I will be reading this.  I am not sure if I am the only person who is dealing with this but I will be asking and finding out.

Feb 20 13 01:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,451
Kansas City, Missouri, US


Bunny 007 wrote:
Do you know which solution is causing the problem?  Developers don't normally smell, so - assuming you're not onto print toning yet - the likely culprits are the stop bath or fixer.  Stop bath is about 2% acetic acid, but this can be replaced with non-smelling citric acid (about a heaped teaspoon per litre of water), or a plain water rinse with running water in the case of films.  But an acid stop is recommended for the dish development of prints.

As for fixer, non-acid versions may be available for use in 'alternative' printing processes - salt, kallitype, VDB, etc.  Try asking at Bostick & Sullivan or Photographers' Formulary.  Alternatively, make up your own with 200 g sodium thiosuphate (5H2O) per litre plus (optionally) about 20 g of anhydrous sodium sulphite - again, try asking at the above suppliers.  (And note that this plain hypo fix is slower and has only about half the capacity of modern 'rapid' fixers.)

Repeated contact with photographic chemicals can cause sensitivity to develop later in life ('sensitisation'), and the chances are that you'll be susceptible, so keep your fingers out of the chemistry as far as possible, or wear gloves.  I splashed about in dishes and tanks quite happily for about 40 years but even brief contact with developers now causes painful sores.  In my case the pH (alkalinity) of the solutions is responsible, but metol, one of the developing agents in many common developers, can become a problem for many people.

I am going to have a chat with my photography teacher about the nauseous spills I have been having.  I think the worst is the face I can not leave the room when doing the 35mm rolls and developmenting them. Normally takes me a full hr for a few rolls and I can not leave the room for a break. So I super sick around the smell.

Feb 20 13 01:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,451
Kansas City, Missouri, US


rfordphotos wrote:

Bella la Bell wrote:
I have taken a film class before and it honestly was not as bad as this one.

I am now getting sick every time I enter the developing room. The chemicals are beyond what I need to be around... let us say this is 3rd time I have vomited it is that bad.
This is the 2nd roll of film I have developed and it was over exposed to the point of useless...

This will be the first art class I am now thinking about dropping. .

Thank you digital photographers for now having that awful smell on you when you shoot. And thank you film photographers for being patient as can be.

First, the darkroom needs to have EXCELLENT ventilation, if it does not, your school is leaving itself wide open to all kinds of claims.

Second- While your reaction to the chemicals sounds extreme, --it is still your body trying to tell you something- Take care of your health!

Make sure you have zero skin contact. Probably the most common problem I was aware of among darkroom dwellers was dermatitis.

And, ultimately, if you continue having these issues----- smile Digital may be _your_ answer smile

I began processing film and prints when I was 13. Who knows---maybe _that_ is why I am the way I am smile



Maybe she desires an education in things other than digital? Maybe she has a thirst for experience and knowledge beyond current technology.

I applaud her energy, and her desire to learn.

And, while you most certainly DO NOT have to learn to shoot and process film to learn the nuts and bolts of photography, at least in my limited experience, those that have done so seem to have the quickest and deepest basis to build on...YMMV

I am required to take this class to graduate. It has to be film not digital.  Also I am worried I am not going to pass because of being so nauseous.  What do I do if I can not finish the class? I can't graduate.  Ugh and talking to the drama queen dean of art is a bitch to do....

Feb 20 13 01:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 4,614
Antioch, California, US


Bella la Bell wrote:
I am required to take this class to graduate. It has to be film not digital.  Also I am worried I am not going to pass because of being so nauseous.  What do I do if I can not finish the class? I can't graduate.  Ugh and talking to the drama queen dean of art is a bitch to do....

Without knowing exactly what the class requires....is it possible to have someone else do the part of the darkroom work that is making you ill? Or is the actual processing a requirement? Maybe before you speak to the dean see if the instructor can work out something with you?

Good Luck!

Feb 20 13 01:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Model Sarah
Posts: 38,736
Columbus, Ohio, US


Andialu wrote:

That's one part I don't like! Rolling the film onto the spool using a dark bag. My arms get all sweaty. That causes the film to get soft. That makes it more of a bitch to get onto the spool. 120 isn't so bad but 35mm is a bitch.

I need to rig a system that pumps air into the bag.

My bathroom doesn't have windows so I just sit on my toilet in the dark. tongue

Feb 20 13 01:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14,029
San Pedro, California, US


Model Sarah wrote:

My bathroom doesn't have windows so I just sit on my toilet in the dark. tongue

Multitasking. Good call.

Feb 20 13 01:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,451
Kansas City, Missouri, US


rfordphotos wrote:

Without knowing exactly what the class requires....is it possible to have someone else do the part of the darkroom work that is making you ill? Or is the actual processing a requirement? Maybe before you speak to the dean see if the instructor can work out something with you?

Good Luck!

I have to do everything sadly.

Feb 20 13 01:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bella la Bell
Posts: 4,451
Kansas City, Missouri, US


Andialu wrote:

Multitasking. Good call.

lol

Feb 20 13 01:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,461
Salinas, California, US


Bella la Bell wrote:

I am required to take this class to graduate. It has to be film not digital.  Also I am worried I am not going to pass because of being so nauseous.  What do I do if I can not finish the class? I can't graduate.  Ugh and talking to the drama queen dean of art is a bitch to do....

Have you looked into the ventilation being an issue?  What about wearing a mask?  Perhaps you are allergic to the fumes?  My grandpa was a photographer and allergic to the chemicals getting on his skin.  I suppose he wore gloves or just did his best to avoid contact. 

Best wishes to you!  smile

Feb 20 13 03:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,461
Salinas, California, US


hbutz New York wrote:
Those who started in film have a deeper understanding of photography.

TRUE!

Feb 20 13 03:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PhillipM
Posts: 6,273
Martin, Tennessee, US


First off, take care of yourself.

Don't sweat the folks hate'n film.....  Hater's will hate.....

I've just started shooting film, developing it, and printing in the darkroom.  Been doing it now for 6 months.  Medium and Large Format wink 

I just wish I had of started film 30 or so years ago.

I wish I could work in there everyday, but I have to basically split up my time to do so.

If it's something you physically can't handle then move on.

Peace
Feb 20 13 04:14 pm  Link  Quote 
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