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Model
Bethany-Joelle
Posts: 10
London, England, United Kingdom


Hey guys, I'm new to this site and have found I have had quite a lot of interest from photographers asking to shoot with me. Being a young girl I'm so weary of who I'm meeting and whether or not it's going to be safe? Most of these guys seem really genuine but is there any way to tell beforehand for danger signs? I've done the obvious and looked on their profiles and checked for peoples tags on their page thanking them for working with them etc, can I do any more?
Feb 20 13 11:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
don cross photography
Posts: 21
Melbourne, Florida, US


You might try sending a message to 1 or more models credited in the portfolio who did not leave a positive tag.  Hardly conclusive but you might get some additional insight.  For what it's worth.

Don Cross
Feb 20 13 11:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Bethany-Joelle
Posts: 10
London, England, United Kingdom


don cross photography wrote:
You might try sending a message to 1 or more models credited in the portfolio who did not leave a positive tag.  Hardly conclusive but you might get some additional insight.  For what it's worth.

Don Cross

Thank you for your response. What do you mean by a negative tag? From all of the ones I have seen so far they have all been positive is there another way to check for positive/negative feedback? Is it worth asking if i can bring somebody along and seeing how they respond also?

Feb 20 13 11:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,413
Salinas, California, US


Welcome to Modelmayhem!  smile

Meeting in advance can be good, especially if the photographer is not too far away from you.  I've met many models in advance of shooting, and it's been very helpful in building a working relationship, planning the shoot, and also a method of casting so I know for sure if I wish to work with the model.  Physical casting calls where we met in person was all we depended on for sure before the Internet! 

Many models travel or live far from me, so I don't always meet in advance, but one of my things is to communicate by telephone at least once before I'll book a shoot with that person.  Even a hearing impaired model was able to call me with assistance.  I will not depend completely on messages on the Internet, or texting for all my communication with models, although I do use it.  The strength of messages and texting is that it's recorded, but there are still things missed that only talking or meeting in person can tell you about a person. 

So blend your communication!  If you are most comfortable writing, then use that as your primary form of communication, but do talk on the phone and meet in person too.
Feb 20 13 11:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Bethany-Joelle wrote:
Is it worth asking if i can bring somebody along and seeing how they respond also?

Only if you don't mind losing a lot of potential shoots with good photographers!

Do your due diligence, check references beforehand and don't shoot with anybody you get a creepy or bad vibe from prior to the shoot, regardless of how much they're offering to pay you and you should be fine.

Here's an excellent post by Madame Bink, one of the best known and most successful art nude models in the UK. She's been modelling (mostly nude) for 6 years and has never had a serious problem with a photographer because she uses her head and takes reasonable precautions, including checking references, before working with somebody for the first time.

Starting Modelling: Staying Safe - by Madame Bink


Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Feb 20 13 11:57 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,001
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Check references. Ask models that have worked with the photographer how the experience was. Trust your gut.
You can ask about bringing an escort, but know that for MANY photographers this is a deal breaker.

Also, may I suggest you edit your profile to remove this? "Please note at this stage in my modelling career I do not yet feel ready to pose nude or topless however it's something I may consider in the future."

Having the "something I may consider in the future" part there leaves the door open to every single photographer you shoot with trying to push you you do nude or topless shoots with them.
Feb 20 13 11:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,413
Salinas, California, US


Bethany-Joelle wrote:
Thank you for your response. What do you mean by a negative tag? From all of the ones I have seen so far they have all been positive is there another way to check for positive/negative feedback? Is it worth asking if i can bring somebody along and seeing how they respond also?

ONLY bring someone along if you've asked first!  I don't mind models bringing invited guests, but surprises are not always well received.  They call them "escorts" on the forums here, and it's a dirty word that can cause all kinds of hell to break loose!  lol

If you and the photographer agree to a preshoot meeting, do so in a public place.  You shouldn't feel like you need to bring someone then.  Do tell friends or family where you are going when meeting or shooting.  If you'd like a friend to go with you for comfort or to do your make up, hair, assist in some way, ... you can always ask the photographer if it is alright to invite them.  The rudest thing you can do is bring a surprise "uninvited" guest!  Always ask, and don't be surprised if they say "no."

Someone suggested contacting models that have shot with that photographer and that is also a good idea.  You want to build trust, but also consider your own intuition too.  Best wishes to you!

Feb 20 13 12:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Liquid Lace Studios
Posts: 195
Newcastle, New South Wales, Australia


Bethany-Joelle wrote:

Thank you for your response. What do you mean by a negative tag? From all of the ones I have seen so far they have all been positive is there another way to check for positive/negative feedback? Is it worth asking if i can bring somebody along and seeing how they respond also?

I insist on a "Meet & Greet" before shooting, it "breaks the ice" but certainly check references from other models the Photographer has worked with.

I have no problem with a model bringing an escort ... but only one !

Feb 20 13 12:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bethany-Joelle
Posts: 10
London, England, United Kingdom


Patrick Walberg wrote:
Welcome to Modelmayhem!  smile

Meeting in advance can be good, especially if the photographer is not too far away from you.  I've met many models in advance of shooting, and it's been very helpful in building a working relationship, planning the shoot, and also a method of casting so I know for sure if I wish to work with the model.  Physical casting calls where we met in person was all we depended on for sure before the Internet! 

Many models travel or live far from me, so I don't always meet in advance, but one of my things is to communicate by telephone at least once before I'll book a shoot with that person.  Even a hearing impaired model was able to call me with assistance.  I will not depend completely on messages on the Internet, or texting for all my communication with models, although I do use it.  The strength of messages and texting is that it's recorded, but there are still things missed that only talking or meeting in person can tell you about a person. 

So blend your communication!  If you are most comfortable writing, then use that as your primary form of communication, but do talk on the phone and meet in person too.

Ok cool thank you for your response. My mums just really worried about me as I've agreed to go to for a shoot tomorrow and its my first one! I've spoken to the guy on the phone and also a young girl he was shooting at the time over the phone? Don't know whether or not that is suspicious as if I was photographing I wouldn't want my work to be disturbed?

Feb 20 13 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bethany-Joelle
Posts: 10
London, England, United Kingdom


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

Only if you don't mind losing a lot of potential shoots with good photographers!

Do your due diligence, check references beforehand and don't shoot with anybody you get a creepy or bad vibe from prior to the shoot, regardless of how much they're offering to pay you and you should be fine.

Here's an excellent post by Madame Bink, one of the best known and most successful art nude models in the UK. She's been modelling (mostly nude) for 6 years and has never had a serious problem with a photographer because she uses her head and takes reasonable precautions, including checking references, before working with somebody for the first time.

Starting Modelling: Staying Safe - by Madame Bink


Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

Many thanks for your response will be sure to take a read of that later on this evening. Really appreciate your comment because I definitely do not want to get myself into any unwanted situations! Good luck with the future was lovely talking to you xx

Feb 20 13 12:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bethany-Joelle
Posts: 10
London, England, United Kingdom


JessieLeigh wrote:
Check references. Ask models that have worked with the photographer how the experience was. Trust your gut.
You can ask about bringing an escort, but know that for MANY photographers this is a deal breaker.

Also, may I suggest you edit your profile to remove this? "Please note at this stage in my modelling career I do not yet feel ready to pose nude or topless however it's something I may consider in the future."

Having the "something I may consider in the future" part there leaves the door open to every single photographer you shoot with trying to push you you do nude or topless shoots with them.

I guess I'm just really nervous because I have never done a shoot before, thank you for your advice though will definitely take that on board.

Thanks for that extra piece of advice too. I have had some photographers asking about nude today so maybe its a good idea I take that off until I feel ready to do so in the future.

Once again thank you for your response and I wish you all the best

xX

Feb 20 13 12:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bethany-Joelle
Posts: 10
London, England, United Kingdom


Patrick Walberg wrote:

ONLY bring someone along if you've asked first!  I don't mind models bringing invited guests, but surprises are not always well received.  They call them "escorts" on the forums here, and it's a dirty word that can cause all kinds of hell to break loose!  lol

If you and the photographer agree to a preshoot meeting, do so in a public place.  You shouldn't feel like you need to bring someone then.  Do tell friends or family where you are going when meeting or shooting.  If you'd like a friend to go with you for comfort or to do your make up, hair, assist in some way, ... you can always ask the photographer if it is alright to invite them.  The rudest thing you can do is bring a surprise "uninvited" guest!  Always ask, and don't be surprised if they say "no."

Someone suggested contacting models that have shot with that photographer and that is also a good idea.  You want to build trust, but also consider your own intuition too.  Best wishes to you!

I can see why the word escort may cause issues lol! Thank you for your advice, I would never take somebody without the photographers say so as I guess its their decision just as much as it is mine. Luckily most of the people who have contacted me are not far from where I live so its not going to be a huge issues for meet and greets to happen. Thank you for your response best of luck for the future xX

Feb 20 13 12:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Bethany-Joelle
Posts: 10
London, England, United Kingdom


Liquid Lace Studios wrote:

I insist on a "Meet & Greet" before shooting, it "breaks the ice" but certainly check references from other models the Photographer has worked with.

I have no problem with a model bringing an escort ... but only one !

Thank you for your response I really appreciate it smile

Best wishes for the future xX

Feb 20 13 12:31 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 5,917
New York, New York, US


As others have said, checking references and having a face-to-face meet if at all possible are your best bets.  If the photographer says no to an escort or a meet, it's not necessarily an indication that he has any undesireable motives.

You can also learn a lot by checking the photographers' forum posts.

And don't forget your own good sense.  At 20, I'm sure that you have a fairly dependable creepmeter that you use when you meet a good-looking guy.  Should come in handy evaluating photographers as well.
Feb 20 13 01:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nico Simon Princely
Posts: 1,647
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


I meet with every model before I shoot with here for this exact reason and also to screen out flakes, scams etc...

I also go over poses, levels of nudity and we set boundaries... I even have gone wardrobe shopping with models. All of this has resulted in greater rapport and comfort for me and the model.

Also always trust your gut feeling about the photographer and situation in general.
Feb 20 13 01:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 23,836
Paris, Île-de-France, France


You may run into more creepy people, but what could really happen?


You have their phone number, which can be tracked.

You have their website, which can be tracked.

MM, flickr, email, and other accounts will have their IP, which can be tracked.

You have the address you're shooting at...


Chances are, with all that info out there, the person isn't going to kill or rape you - or if they did it's game over for them pretty fast.

Not that I'm saying don't check references, but that a lot about someone is already out there and is public or is very easy to get.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com
Feb 20 13 02:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,171
Salem, Oregon, US


google them. check references. ask around locally.

you take your chances in life. but it seems like you're more in danger from a boyfriend with possible roid rage than an internet photographer.

red flags might be if the photographer seems interested in sex rather than photography. a little flirting to break the ice may be ok but they shouldn't be saying stuff like "so what kind of man do you like" or "do you have a boyfriend?"

you could ask for a pre-shoot meeting to check them out but not everyone has time for this.
Feb 20 13 02:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


Bethany-Joelle wrote:
Hey guys, I'm new to this site and have found I have had quite a lot of interest from photographers asking to shoot with me. Being a young girl I'm so weary of who I'm meeting and whether or not it's going to be safe? Most of these guys seem really genuine but is there any way to tell beforehand for danger signs? I've done the obvious and looked on their profiles and checked for peoples tags on their page thanking them for working with them etc, can I do any more?

You have a great start so far for a newbie. You can also consider contacting references. You don't have to tell the photographer you are doing so, but you can look for the models they credit in their photos and contact them. Keep it brief and tell them the photographer listed them as a reference and ask how their shoot went. This leaves it opened ended, but to the point. To me, it's a red flag if photographers have no credits on any of their photos unless it's a beginning port and the models are outside of MM. If you are feeling really unsure, you can ask them to provide 3 references.

Another idea if you want to avoid bringing an escort is to have someone drop you off and pick you up from the shoot. Suggest a "meet up" shoot if the photographer has some time or meet in a public place for your first shoot.

Feb 20 13 02:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


Bethany-Joelle wrote:

Ok cool thank you for your response. My mums just really worried about me as I've agreed to go to for a shoot tomorrow and its my first one! I've spoken to the guy on the phone and also a young girl he was shooting at the time over the phone? Don't know whether or not that is suspicious as if I was photographing I wouldn't want my work to be disturbed?

I feel your pain! My mom recently told me that a photographer that won't allow an escort must have ulterior motives. I am almost 24 and she treats me like I'm 16. There are definitely ways around an escort.

Feb 20 13 02:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 2,217
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


I understand where you are coming from, but it helps to look at it from the photographer's point of view.

unfortunately, Model Mayhem has a substantial number of "models" who have no real claim to the skills required to be a model.  Among other things, a model needs confidence and poise.

Importantly, Model Mayhem has several features that allow people to check each other out beforehand. They include the portfolio (is it high quality or GWC?); tags (do they say "it was great to shoot with you"); and credits (no credits - bad sign; you should message models credited and ask what the photographer was like).

I give a fair bit of latitude to models outside MM because they do not have access to the models credited, but, when an MM model requires a pre-shoot meeting to re-assure herself that I am not going to harm her or bring an escort for the same reason, it tells me that she lacks the professionalism to make proper checks. (I am not talking about meetings to sort out props, etc.)

Moreover, to date (and this is the bottom line), not one MM model that required such meetings or brought an escort has proved worth working with because she lacked the necessary confidence and poise, so, after wasting my time a number of times, I no longer shoot with that group of models.

However, from the tone of your posts above, I think you will take a mature approach to this issue and I expect that you will do very well on MM.
Feb 20 13 03:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Patrick Walberg
Posts: 42,413
Salinas, California, US


natural beauties of qld wrote:
I understand where you are coming from, but it helps to look at it from the photographer's point of view.

unfortunately, Model Mayhem has a substantial number of "models" who have no real claim to the skills required to be a model.  Among other things, a model needs confidence and poise.

Importantly, Model Mayhem has several features that allow people to check each other out beforehand. They include the portfolio (is it high quality or GWC?); tags (do they say "it was great to shoot with you"); and credits (no credits - bad sign; you should message models credited and ask what the photographer was like).

I give a fair bit of latitude to models outside MM because they do not have access to the models credited, but, when an MM model requires a pre-shoot meeting to re-assure herself that I am not going to harm her or bring an escort for the same reason, it tells me that she lacks the professionalism to make proper checks. (I am not talking about meetings to sort out props, etc.)

Moreover, to date (and this is the bottom line), not one MM model that required such meetings or brought an escort has proved worth working with because she lacked the necessary confidence and poise, so, after wasting my time a number of times, I no longer shoot with that group of models.

However, from the tone of your posts above, I think you will take a mature approach to this issue and I expect that you will do very well on MM.

Unfortunately Modelmayhem and other websites are extremely prolific for FAKES, deception, and just plain scammers as well.   You've heard about the "cat fishing" craze?  Well it's been going on for a long time.  Mostly in regards to Social networking sites like Myspace and Facebook, but I've been suckered into believing that a "woman" was really a woman, or that she was telling me the truth about herself more than a couple times.  I've also come across FAKE profiles on Modelmayhem numerous times in the several years I've been here, and report them by CAM.  Why would anyone have a fake profile or be deceptive?  Well, it could be for purposes such as trolling on the forum here, to spamming, or scamming ... maybe worse?

For that reason, I will not consider depending on messages or texting as the only viable form of communication.  I like meeting in person, or at least talking on the phone before booking a shoot.  That's just the way that I am.  Invited guests don't phase me one way or the other.   I can always ask them to leave ... but I've only had to do that once to an "uninvited" surprise guest who thought that shooting models was some sort of spectator sport.  wink

Feb 20 13 03:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
I M N Photography
Posts: 2,280
New York, New York, US


You will hear a lot of the "due diligence" recommendations, which boils down to a combination of research and common sense.

Going somewhere without making someone else aware of your whereabouts is not smart. Having someone bring you to a shoot is not as bad as bringing someone to the shoot, because of the implications associated with the role of the "escort."

Some models will say that they are bringing someone "for their own protection." That makes the conversation a non-starter, because the model is already implying that the photographer is someone from whom they might need to be protected.

No professional likes to be viewed in that manner. It is insulting,  and worst of all, it as a sign that the model is incapable of handling a situation on his/her own.

I always tell people that unless they are involved in fighting crimes or fires, then jobs and/or hobbies should not be their source of unnecessary fear. Fun fear, as in skydiving or extreme sports? Sure. Being afraid to tell someone that a situation makes them feel uncomfortable? Definitely not. If you can't handle a situation like that on your own, then having escorts to do it for you does not help you mature.

If a model is afraid that s/he will not be able to handle a situation in a mature manner, then less mature hobbies should be pursued.

I agree with previous comments. You seem to want to approach things in a mature manner. I can only say that being prepared (as in knowing ahead of time what you plan to shoot) is the best way to approach each situation. If you want to shoot casual, commercial photography, then KNOW what it involves. If you want to shoot "glamour", then be aware that for some people that means boudoir. If you don't want to shoot nudes, then be adamant about it, and make it very clear that if the photographer insists then you will end the session.

Confidence in yourself is the best preparation you can have to deal with uncertain situations.
Feb 23 13 12:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,780
Olivet, Michigan, US


JessieLeigh wrote:
Also, may I suggest you edit your profile to remove this? "Please note at this stage in my modelling career I do not yet feel ready to pose nude or topless however it's something I may consider in the future."

Having the "something I may consider in the future" part there leaves the door open to every single photographer you shoot with trying to push you you do nude or topless shoots with them.

I would agree with this.  When you're ready, say so.  Either in your profile, or to photographers you've decided to ask about a shoot.  Until then, it's not going to do you any good.

Feb 23 13 12:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Yani S
Posts: 913
Los Angeles, California, US


Your not that young? I mean you considered an adult. From England I would think more so since i had to get a fake I.D. at 16
Any how I would do what ever makes you feel best. Its your life conduct it the way you want as long as it does not hurt someone else life.
Me I did meet ups before and it worked out fine but I just don't have the time for that. To me its not a dating site so if you want to shoot it really don't matter as long as I can get the job done! Everything else is just profiling! You can always MM the models that shot with them before and see how they liked their shoots! I think they would tell you the full story and in a private message no less. Seems simple to me. But what I do I know Im to busy chasing rainbows with a fancy lens! wink
Feb 23 13 02:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,471
Portland, Oregon, US


Bethany-Joelle wrote:
Thank you for your response. What do you mean by a negative tag? From all of the ones I have seen so far they have all been positive is there another way to check for positive/negative feedback? Is it worth asking if i can bring somebody along and seeing how they respond also?

Personally, I feel tags can be helpful, but don't rely upon them for forming your impression, because they only tell part of a story.  Negative tags are typically deleted, and positive tags may not tell you as much as you think.

You're far better off contacting models the photographer has worked with and asking them about their experiences, did the photographer do what was promised, and would they recommend them to others.

There may be things that would be disclosed in private, even if the person left a positive tag.  Do your due diligence, and let another person know who you are going to work with, give that person the contact information, and check back in with them following the shoot.

Asking to bring somebody along is a good way to make yourself look unprofessional and greatly reduce the number of good photographers who will be willing to work with you.  You will likely also hear that you should be wary of any photographer who won't let you bring someone along for your safety.  That is bad advice, and tells you nothing more than that you should question anything that person tells you.

Pay attention to real warning signs and red flags, not imagined ones.

You certainly can ask if you can bring a babysitter for your safety, but you're likely to weed out more good photographers than bad ones by doing so.

Feb 23 13 02:56 pm  Link  Quote 
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