I just completed a photo workshop, shooting with some wonderful models. In having conversation with them, they told me how they they never really come to MM anymore due to all the dating requests, GWC's, and creepers bugging them.
The more I think about it, about every model I browse on here has some sort of "Model Mayhem is not for dating" disclaimer on their profile. Many just have links to other pages. Even photographers who in earnest, love their work, have to fight for the trust of a new model even for a basic shoot.
Isn't there any sort of moderators who can mitigate these issues? How has it gotten so bad?
I just completed a photo workshop, shooting with some wonderful llamas. In having conversation with them, they told me how they they never really come to MM anymore due to all the dating requests, GWC's, and creepers bugging them.
The more I think about it, about every llama I browse on here has some sort of "Model Mayhem is not for dating" disclaimer on their profile. Many just have links to other pages. Even photographers who in earnest, love their work, have to fight for the trust of a new llama even for a basic shoot.
Isn't there any sort of moderators who can mitigate these issues? How has it gotten so bad?
It's the Internet where freaks, geeks and socially unacceptables can sit at home in their under ware and be stupid without someone beating the shit out of them. It's the Kenite infested world we live in.
Evie_Wolfe
Posts: 660
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom
Square Jaw Photography wrote: Wow.
I just completed a photo workshop, shooting with some wonderful models. In having conversation with them, they told me how they they never really come to MM anymore due to all the dating requests, GWC's, and creepers bugging them.
The more I think about it, about every model I browse on here has some sort of "Model Mayhem is not for dating" disclaimer on their profile. Many just have links to other pages. Even photographers who in earnest, love their work, have to fight for the trust of a new model even for a basic shoot.
Isn't there any sort of moderators who can mitigate these issues? How has it gotten so bad?
I have to say, although I've been sent my fair share of dick pics and weird comments, I get a lot less of that here than I do on other sites. Unfortunately for now it's a characteristic of the internet, and though that shouldn't be the case, it is.
As for fighting to gain a model's trust, I have never distrusted a photographer because other men have said/done gross things to me in the past. I think it is easy for new models here to buy into the 'this is not a dating site!' mentality because when they first join, that is a large percent of what they are confronted with. Once they have been here a while, they get to meet the wealth of non-creeps, and their attitudes tend to change.
You point about the moderation might be valid, but this site has many thousands of users and the MODs are volunteers. There is a 'report' button for every message and they rely on users flagging up the scammers and creeps to keep the site a nice place to be - they can't do everything.
As a community, we can weed these guys out and help to teach them that their behaviour is unacceptable, but we can't expect our small team of MODs to do it all for us. I would urge every model who gets put off from this site to give it another go - for every weirdo in a man-thong flashing his junk there are a bunch of great guys just trying to shake the steriotype
EMILY C wrote: I only ever get messages like this from male models.
I was just going to ask that. Most of the complaints I hear are males setting up profiles on here and calling themselves male models and hitting on female models with the "hey baby..nice tits...let's shoot sometime."
I will say to the OP that you should take complaints (on any side) with a grain of salt. "Creeper" seems to be the new internet photography buzzword and everybody who says something you don't like (or who is older and/or fatter than you) is a "creeper."
I had a commercial model talk about all these creepers she deals with and when pressed, it was because they were requesting Nude shoots. Imo...that doesn't even remotely constitute creeper behavior.
I just completed a photo workshop, shooting with some wonderful models. In having conversation with them, they told me how they they never really come to MM anymore due to all the dating requests, GWC's, and creepers bugging them.
This is also why I avoid group anythings like the plague. I'm picturing a bunch of models "omg...I know! This one guy...!" and I'd have to puncture my eardrums with a knitting needle.
On ChristanMingle a site devoted to Christan dating this happened: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/02/19/40 … woman.html Are there more creeps on MM then a Christan website, maybe. However I know models who have erotic and explicit nudes who have few to no inappropriate comments or offers. Go to many nightclubs and bars and see how many times women have nasty remarks and offers of dates come their way. Yet they go back to those clubs and bars. If some fool says something you find offensive then report and block them but leave the site????
Maybe they weren't that serious to start with and any excuse will do.
I have to say, although I've been sent my fair share of dick pics and weird comments, I get a lot less of that here than I do on other sites. Unfortunately for now it's a characteristic of the internet, and though that shouldn't be the case, it is.
As for fighting to gain a model's trust, I have never distrusted a photographer because other men have said/done gross things to me in the past. I think it is easy for new models here to buy into the 'this is not a dating site!' mentality because when they first join, that is a large percent of what they are confronted with. Once they have been here a while, they get to meet the wealth of non-creeps, and their attitudes tend to change.
You point about the moderation might be valid, but this site has many thousands of users and the MODs are volunteers. There is a 'report' button for every message and they rely on users flagging up the scammers and creeps to keep the site a nice place to be - they can't do everything.
As a community, we can weed these guys out and help to teach them that their behaviour is unacceptable, but we can't expect our small team of MODs to do it all for us. I would urge every model who gets put off from this site to give it another go - for every weirdo in a man-thong flashing his junk there are a bunch of great guys just trying to shake the steriotype
At least some bright viewpoints here. The models, photographers, and MUA's I talked to today said it has gotten so bad.
This workshop was a collaborative effort of a group of Military Combat Cameramen who hired and paid for two MUA's, brought and provided food and snacks, and genuinely wanted to shoot model photography (something you can guess we don't get to do all that often in our line of work.) One of the models I was contacting to come to this shoot wanted to bring an escort. We told her that was fine, but realize she was shooting with Men and Women of the Armed Services on a Military Base! It took some convincing that there was nothing to worry about. It amazes me how much models can worry based on those who make photographers look bad.
I joined back when I didn't know what end of the camera was what, P meant preferably or professional or something like that.
MM is filled with models that won't see much more then a TF shoot (nothing wrong with that so don't take offense ladies) and a million or so photogs with day jobs who simply want to shoot to shoot.
MM should be called match.com for photographers.
Of course they are using this site to meet people for a variety or reasons. I've stopped carrying business cards it's gotten so bad. Once anyone hears you're a "photographer" they say "oh sorry, I'm not interested since everyone is a photographer these days".
One guy in my area asks the ladies post shoot if they are interested in sexual favors verse pay. Lol
It happens. Yes, read half the pages on here. "Not interested in dating" etc etc etc.
I'm sure this will offend a few. Why? Strikes a nerve?
a model was in my studio yesterday trying to deal with her facebook having been hacked. guys in their lives can definitely cause trouble. should they turn lesbian? celibate? dunno. maybe to some extent life is just messy if you want to play the game.
should mayhem become a pay-only site? would that improve things?
ontherocks wrote: a model was in my studio yesterday trying to deal with her facebook having been hacked. guys in their lives can definitely cause trouble. should they turn lesbian? celibate? dunno. maybe to some extent life is just messy if you want to play the game.
should mayhem become a pay-only site? would that improve things?
Hell no it won't improve anything. I'm NOT going to pay to use a site. I'm limited to 30 photos because I won't pay. I won't use OMP because it costs. I do not use MM much and when I do it's to view various styles of work for ideas, or see what friends in the industry are doing across the nation.
The guys in question are usually hobbyist's. They have day jobs and no amount of money will "legitimize" their work.
There should be a "report" button on each email that is sent. I don't always agree with the MOD's on this site. Who granted them permission to have final say? Hell I've seen some of the stuff the MOD's do outside of their mod "job" and reviewed portfolio's/pages and there are wolves in sheep's clothing, even in the MOD world.
But if there was a "report" button where messages could be flagged for negativity then maybe some of those people could be removed from the site.
Lets face it. Anyone can be a photographer these days. MM is a breading ground for it.
George Ruge wrote: It's the Internet where freaks, geeks and socially unacceptables can sit at home in their under ware and be stupid without someone beating the shit out of them. It's the Kenite infested world we live in.
I've worked with many models, and occasionally they will tell a creeper story (and I love to hear about them), but most of them seem to take it in stride; and I have never, ever felt that I had to go out of my way to "earn" anybody's trust because of the bad behavior of someone else.
Most models I have met on MM seem pretty grownup and street smart, and I usually get the feeling they know how to handle a creeper.
One is because any body now a days can pick up a camera take a few shots and call them self a photographer. Two models should learn how to protect them self, Let all photogs know they will have an escort with them at all times. And that escort wil be a man. that will stop the creepers right there. Also you can block people on MM as well. Theres always going to be creepers and perverts every where. These models have to learn to look out for them self. I shoot every thing fashion, High fashion, fashion nudes etc etc. 18 & up. There has been times when ill set up a nude shoot & the model well show up by her self. And nver had met me ever. I mean even strippers dont do a lap dance with out the big ass dude right out side. I think MM can do more for models being able to protect them self. But models have to do more.
From a photogs stand point as well, MM is messed up on the photogs end also. Models who clearly have no skill asking to be payed for really just sitting there and being a woman. The TF model who sends you a message says they love your work never intending on paying your for your work & are only on hear looking for free photo shoots ect ect and the list goes on. Point of all of this is models and photos well always run into all of these problems and will always need to protect them self. (Models im pretty sure when you were a kid, your parents said. Never talk to strangers) Use that same principle in your adult life
same here except i have heard more than once that "so and so had a really bad experience and is thinking of quitting"
yesterday i heard some stories that made me feel bad about being in this "industry" some guys aren't content just to enjoy the view and do take advantage. and other guys are really sick people masquerading as photographers (or agents). not easy being a model, especially a nude one. it's not the same as working at a bank (which you often hear in escort threads).
aquarelle wrote: Most models I have met on MM seem pretty grownup and street smart, and I usually get the feeling they know how to handle a creeper.
at smaller clubs (basically bars with a pole) sometimes the lady bartender is the bouncer. the dancers are pretty much on their own in other words. guys pull their hair, throw them to the ground, stick fingers where they don't belong, pull things out that aren't meant to be seen, you name it.
Delbert Haman wrote: I mean even strippers dont do a lap dance with out the big ass dude right out side.
yep its happening, I've been approached twice now for POV sexual content shoots, GWC wanting oral sex and photos of it, of course I would be "compensated" but Im pretty sure that would make me a hooker?
nothing against hookers, but im a model, not a hooker. go hire a hooker if that's what you want to shoot
salvatori.
Posts: 2,746
State College, Pennsylvania, US
Square Jaw Photography wrote: Wow.
I just completed a photo workshop, shooting with some wonderful models. In having conversation with them, they told me how they they never really come to MM anymore due to all the dating requests, GWC's, and creepers bugging them.
The more I think about it, about every model I browse on here has some sort of "Model Mayhem is not for dating" disclaimer on their profile. Many just have links to other pages. Even photographers who in earnest, love their work, have to fight for the trust of a new model even for a basic shoot.
Isn't there any sort of moderators who can mitigate these issues? How has it gotten so bad?
As a photographer, I just want to thank you for posting this.
Koryn Locke
Posts: 31,988
Boston, Massachusetts, US
I've been on MM since 2007. I only ever had a few people send me annoying messages.
I slept in strange photographers' houses all over the US, shot out in the woods, in abandoned buildings, met total strangers in parking lots. I only ever had two real "creep" encounters, and both of those happened during the same trip. Two, out of probably hundreds of shoots I did over the years.
I think people exaggerate a lot. Yeah, it happens sometimes, but not that much.
i've been made aware of photographers who do that in addition to their regular mayhem work. there seems to be a healthy debate about whether it's porn or prostitution (not sure what the law says). regardless i don't think you're allowed to do that on mayhem?
wrongsideofthirty wrote: yep its happening, I've been approached twice now for POV sexual content shoots, GWC wanting oral sex and photos of it, of course I would be "compensated" but Im pretty sure that would make me a hooker?
Funny thread right here. I've had a "Model" creeping me since about the first week I joined MM here. Changed my user name and killed my facebook page because of it.
Rebel Photo
Posts: 11,399
Florence, South Carolina, US
Nigel Jourdain wrote:
Hell no it won't improve anything. I'm NOT going to pay to use a site. I'm limited to 30 photos because I won't pay. I won't use OMP because it costs. I do not use MM much and when I do it's to view various styles of work for ideas, or see what friends in the industry are doing across the nation.
The guys in question are usually hobbyist's. They have day jobs and no amount of money will "legitimize" their work.
There should be a "report" button on each email that is sent. I don't always agree with the MOD's on this site. Who granted them permission to have final say? Hell I've seen some of the stuff the MOD's do outside of their mod "job" and reviewed portfolio's/pages and there are wolves in sheep's clothing, even in the MOD world.
But if there was a "report" button where messages could be flagged for negativity then maybe some of those people could be removed from the site.
Lets face it. Anyone can be a photographer these days. MM is a breading ground for it.
my models have been very professional but i have seen models who were very friendly with their photographers to the point where maybe some guys could get the wrong idea (i'm guessing the model is thinking father figure and the photographer is thinking something completely different).
some of the models on here are strippers, have webcams, do nude housecleaning, shoot some porn on the side, have their own web sites, etc. in some of those worlds there is a very different interaction with the guy than is supposed to happen on a mayhem photo shoot. i think most keep the two separate but sometimes there is blurring.
Koryn Locke wrote: I think people exaggerate a lot. Yeah, it happens sometimes, but not that much.
I love photography, though I have only recently got into shooting models. I love shooting the female form. I think it is the most beautiful form on the planet. It's a shame if I browse a model with a genuine interest to shoot art implied and pay for it, just for the opportunity to improve my craft, yet they don't feel comfortable shooting nude for a new photographer to them, and then want to bring an escort when it does happen. I thought that's what the business was about.
Models! Good photographers are still out there wanting to shoot true photos. Don't think we're all creepers!
my suggestion is look for ways to meet them in person. for instance we let photographers borrow our studio partly so some more models can get to know us.
do moderators have the authority to audit email conversations? maybe a little eavesdropping would scare off the creepers.
Square Jaw Photography wrote: Models! Good photographers are still out there wanting to shoot true photos. Don't think we're all creepers!
I find that the interactions I have with models, which begin on Facebook especially, are much more positive from the start, than the average of those which begin "here" - even though the same models have profiles here as well....
but I do honestly believe that a lot of the problem is attributable to the "airplane crash" phenomenon -
significant events of the nature are rarer than one would think, but make a big splash, and have many ripples....
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