???
I have had cameras with...and without.
And IMHO...it's a feature that just has too many uses NOT to have.
I'm starting to shoot more video but even for stills they allow all sorts of benefits.
I had something similar on my Olympus E-20 a few years back, was pretty useful when the cam was at floor level, or during macro. Guess nowadays you could always plug your video output on some portable screen; like a portable dvd player?
Robert Jewett
Posts: 2,257
al-MarsÄ, Tunis, Tunisia
I think it got viewed as a feature like a pop-up flash. The pro bodies don't have them. The reality is that pros use an off-camera monitor because they need real resolution for pulling focus, etc.
I think this will change as more consumers demand them.
The swivel is the main reason why I purchased my DSLR over many of the other types. It saved my ass a bunch of times!
I have a bad back and can't easily bend over. There's been quite a few shots I've done that were from a camera position that's low to the ground. Just tilt the swivel screen up, and put the camera in position is all that I needed to do.
I've been doing aerial photography for over a decade. For the first time ever, a few months ago, the helicopter pilot refused to let me shoot without a door. He said that I can stick the lens out of the porthole in the window. What he didn't say was that the porthole was 2 feet in front of me almost directly behind the pilots seat, making it very difficult or damned near impossible for me to shoot looking though the viewfinder.
Not a problem, I just pulled the swivel screen out at a 90 degree angle and got the shots I needed without a problem. One of the photos from the series is on my profile.
Last week I was at a face and bodypaint convention. The mother of a 4 year old girl wanted me to get a good shot of her daughter, unposed. Every time I pointed the camera toward the girl she noticed me, so I sat down on the floor with my back facing her, pretending to work on my camera. Pull the swivel screen out, framed the photo and got a shot that her mother just loved!
In the future I'll never have a camera without a swivel monitor.
DarrylPascoePhotography wrote: If I need to shoot to a screen to see better I shoot tethered to a bigger one. I personally don't see the benefit to having the swivel screen.
Its a more consumer thing.
^^ this. the swivel screens are a consumer novelty. If you are looking to see things better, just tether to a monitor.
It's one more failure point out in the field. Any moving part will fail before a non-moving part. Pro zoom lenses have all of their mechanics inside the barrel. Why? because they'll survive better in the wild.
Pro video cameras don't have an articulating LCD screen either. You usually need to buy a field monitor for them.
The less there is to break on something, the less the thing will break.
just stating my own personal preference. I see them as a novelty because there are a variety of ways to shoot without them. The pro digital bodies have always come without swivel screens, and the swivel screen was only introduced in the mid-line consumer end of DSLR's after video came out as a package deal (also not needed on a DSLR generally, but packaged because of consumer suggestion). For those that never shoot video, and that are working in studio, tethering is a much more feasible option when working with clients and a team in studio. just my .02 cents.
Charlie-CNP wrote: For those that never shoot video, and that are working in studio, tethering is a much more feasible option when working with clients and a team in studio. just my .02 cents.
Autofocus and Image Stabilization are two things that I find totally unnecessary for studio work, but damned if I can find a pro camera without 'em.
(really, I would love to find a total digital version of a totally manual camera for studio work)
SayCheeZ! wrote: Autofocus and Image Stabilization are two things that I find totally unnecessary for studio work, but damned if I can find a pro camera without 'em.
(really, I would love to find a total digital version of a totally manual camera for studio work)
true true. and short of a digital back on an old Hasselblad (or equivalent), they will probably never have a totally manual digital camera. People like these bells and whistles too much. and somewhere there is an engineer in a room right now trying to figure out how he can make the damn thing fry an egg too while you shoot.... Personally I prefer shooting with no screen on my film bodies, but some folks have other ideals.
CZ Digital
Posts: 50
Prague, Prague, Czech Republic
The fully articulated screen is THE must-have feature for me now that I've gotten accustomed to using it on my a77. It's extremely convenient when I need to compose a shot in unusual angles (very low or up above my head). I'd love to jump ship from Sony and grab a D800e - but I've become so dependent on that one little feature that I'll have to settle for the a99 when time comes to upgrade to full frame.
Naysayers haven't given it a chance in my opinion. I've tried the articulated screens on the consumer Canon and Nikon bodies - can't say I blame anyone for not liking / using them. When you try it on a camera that was designed with that feature in mind and not tacked on as a last-minute feature you'll understand too ;-)
I have a 60D and a 7D. For concerts, shooting kids, pets, wildlife, the articulating screen lets you do things you can't do without one. Sitting in a studio..no, it serves no function.
To pass it off as a gimmick means you never used one for what it was intended for.
The fact that when it is stored, the screen is flippped around closed adds some protection to it as well.
Patchouli Nyx
Posts: 25,311
Santa Cruz, California, US
Jay Strange wrote: ???
I have had cameras with...and without.
And IMHO...it's a feature that just has too many uses NOT to have.
I'm starting to shoot more video but even for stills they allow all sorts of benefits.
because lots of real photographers never needed a swivel lcd screen to compose a shot.
Rick OBanion Photo wrote: I have a 60D and a 7D. For concerts, shooting kids, pets, wildlife, the articulating screen lets you do things you can't do without one. Sitting in a studio..no, it serves no function.
To pass it off as a gimmick means you never used one for what it was intended for.
The fact that when it is stored, the screen is flippped around closed adds some protection to it as well.
I'm splitting hairs, but protect it from what?
I've had DSLRs for 8 years now (4 of them) and I've never scratched or otherwise damaged a screen.
I can see it being useful in some situations, but whacking it into something wrong one time while it's out and bzzt. It's face shooting with no preview until you can get it fixed.
Chicchowmein
Posts: 13,492
Palm Beach, Florida, US
Good Egg Productions wrote:
I'm splitting hairs, but protect it from what?
I've had DSLRs for 8 years now (4 of them) and I've never scratched or otherwise damaged a screen.
I can see it being useful in some situations, but whacking it into something wrong one time while it's out and bzzt. It's face shooting with no preview until you can get it fixed.
Mine are scratched but it's because I carry two bodies on my shoulder at polo and switch off. When they knock together they get scratched.
My camera bodies get pretty beat up at polo. When I get my new body I am either not taking it to polo or I am putting a protective screen on it.
WMcK
Posts: 5,190
Glasgow, Scotland, United Kingdom
Charlie-CNP wrote:
^^ this. the swivel screens are a consumer novelty. If you are looking to see things better, just tether to a monitor.
But I don't carry a monitor round with me for landscape photography, an are where a swivel screen is very useful for low angle shots. And I'm sure not many photographers do.
I am a truck driver and have been shooting out of my truck in my "mobile portrait studio" every single photo on my tumblr is taken inside my truck. http://sedition1216.tumblr.com/ The swivel lcd screen on my camera is pretty important! There is no way I could check the viewfinder for composition in the position I put my camera in to shoot. Swivel LCD screens are great for tight spaces!
Rick OBanion Photo wrote: I have a 60D and a 7D. For concerts, shooting kids, pets, wildlife, the articulating screen lets you do things you can't do without one. Sitting in a studio..no, it serves no function.
To pass it off as a gimmick means you never used one for what it was intended for.
The fact that when it is stored, the screen is flippped around closed adds some protection to it as well.
I drive on Warped tour every summer and get to photograph from on the main stage. The swivel screen is awesome for shots like this.
The full pro bodies tend to be splash-proof, even weather-proof (not fully water-proof). They are built to be tough - there are jokes about clubbing someone unconscious with a 1D, then taking their photo.
A fixed screen is straightforward to seal against water. A tilt/swivel screen, not. Similarly on the toughness quotient.
Same reason you won't find a popup flash on a full pro body.
Jay Strange wrote: ???
I have had cameras with...and without.
And IMHO...it's a feature that just has too many uses NOT to have.
I'm starting to shoot more video but even for stills they allow all sorts of benefits.
If you shoot macro photography in nature (where you might be putting the camera at ground level and need the moveable LCD b/c you can't use the viewfinder) it's invaluable. I've talked to two photographers who shoot just this kind of work and swear by it. And if you shoot in crowds a lot (small events) and are putting your camera above everyone's head to capture the handshake or hug, again, it's a great thing.
But I'm biased. Having spent a lot of time in the field with cameras where if something fails, I couldn't just go to the camera store 45 minutes away for repair or exchange work or a new rental, I've had the philosophy that the more gadgets and moveable parts and extra features a body has on it, the more likely it is that something will break or "go wrong." I know, I know, a lot of this is really about the design and manufacturing quality. Still, there is value in fewer moving parts. That's part of the reason I've never found it valuable to have a camera that shoots video.
I understand the value of a moveable LCD. But the vast most of the shooting I do wouldn't benefit from one. So for me personally, it's something I'd seek to avoid. But that's not a judgment on it's value or use to other photographers.
This is a pretty amusing thread! The things we'll argue about. I believe that Olympus introduced the swivel LCD, and they've had it on their weather sealed pro body since about 2007. Certainly the argument could be made that calling Olympus' top of the line body a "pro" body is a misnomer. A little piece of Invisible Shield will protect the screen from most scratches, but not banging it into something when it is extended. Of course if you bang your camera into anything, it's possible you'll damage something. Sometimes the screens will separate, one of mine did, but a spot of super glue quickly fixed it. I rarely use mine, but as some have mentioned it can be beneficial for macros, shooting from a low angle, holding the camera up over a crowd, street shooting, etc.
Ed Woodson Photography wrote: I don't use Live view and/or shoot video. So, for me, an articulating LCD is of no value.
I don't use live view or shoot video either, but the lack of a swivel screen is the only thing that bothers me in shifting from a Nikon D5000 to the new D7100.
Swivel screens are like power steering, cruise control, etc - easy to dismiss unless you have had them and hard to give up once you have had them.
Some of us like to use cameras, not play video games. I will keep my penta-prisim, tyvm.
I'd even like to see the removal of the 1m+ pixel, 4" lcd from the back of my camera. Those suckers are expensive and bulky. Add a simple info LCD and a smartphone output (for photo review).
Patchouli Nyx wrote: because lots of real photographers never needed a swivel lcd screen to compose a shot.
Damn, there are some haters in this thread. Who was the famous photographer who went to great lengths to have his/her camera at an odd angle so they could compose photos with their subjects unaware?ETA: It was Helen Levitt that I had read that about recently. I think just like cars, there will be models with all sorts of various features from which to choose. My guess is at some point there will be a pro level(whatever that means) with a swivel if for no other reason than video.
Personally I prefer shooting with no screen on my film bodies, but some folks have other ideals.
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