Ok...so here's something I am just really curious about. There are photographers who say they want "real" models, but what does that mean exactly? I've submitted to photographers for work who were looking for "real" and have been told that they won't work with me because I'm either not skinny or...wait for it...not big enough! A little help here
Well you have fashion, lifestyle, hair & beauty as some of the areas you are interested in shooting. That's fine but for photographers who actually work in those areas who need portfolio work to show potential clients, it's not so realistic.
We all have to shoot for our intended audience.
I wanted to join a certain country club when I first moved to Canada from the US...they told me I wasn't right for the club...despite having the ability to pay the $25K annual fee (rather, my parents were gonna pay). Later found out it was my skin color...a thing I should have known.
I did get the standard tour and there wasn't a minority face to be seen..if you didn't count "the help". This was late 80's, early 90's...times have changed since then but pushing it back then would have been a waste of my time and resources.
We once had a model in our local modeling group who was offended when she was not chosen to work with a photographer. I was quite surprised when she was not selected, but soon realized he was a perfectionist, and this girl was not chosen because she had a few zits on her chin, even though they were covered well by makeup. She was not, and probably would never be, his idea of a "perfect" model to him.
You are new on the modeling scene, so you needn't be too concerned about "realistic" yet, just get out there and model, throwing variety and styles into the mix. Study what other models are doing and try emulating your own style from them. If you are seriously concerned about this, only you can make it happen. With hard work and persistence, you may see the "realistic" becoming a reality in your metamorphosis. Be cautioned though, there will always be photographers who will be looking for a specific look, and you may never meet his/her criteria, no offense to you, it just happens. Mainstream modeling is more acceptable to most photographers than the radical alternative styles too. Just because one or two photographers may not wish to work with you does not necessarily mean other photographers would turn you down as well. Keep on improving your image and move on. Next.....
G D Peters Photography wrote: We once had a model in our local modeling group who was offended when she was not chosen to work with a photographer. I was quite surprised when she was not selected, but soon realized he was a perfectionist, and this girl was not chosen because she had a few zits on her chin, even though they were covered well by makeup. She was not, and probably would never be, his idea of a "perfect" model to him.
You are new on the modeling scene, so you needn't be too concerned about "realistic" yet, just get out there and model, throwing variety and styles into the mix. Study what other models are doing and try emulating your own style from them. If you are seriously concerned about this, only you can make it happen. With hard work and persistence, you may see the "realistic" becoming a reality in your metamorphosis. Be cautioned though, there will always be photographers who will be looking for a specific look, and you may never meet his/her criteria, no offense to you, it just happens. Mainstream modeling is more acceptable to most photographers than the radical alternative styles too. Just because one or two photographers may not wish to work with you does not necessarily mean other photographers would turn you down as well. Keep on improving your image and move on. Next.....
Saedcantas
Posts: 389
Saint Saviour, Saint Saviour, United Kingdom
Maybe make a portfolio review post in the critiques forum and that way people can help you see your portfolio from the perspective of these potential photographers
GinaChic wrote: Ok...so here's something I am just really curious about. There are photographers who say they want "real" models, but what does that mean exactly? I've submitted to photographers for work who were looking for "real" and have been told that they won't work with me because I'm either not skinny or...wait for it...not big enough! A little help here
They are looking for models who's connection with the camera is more important then perfect T&A. They have Real smiles. Real poses. Not plastic perfection. A blemish or two. Not a diva. Character in the image. Collaboration. Communication. Messages that are more than just "tweets". Down to earth. Girl next door.
GinaChic wrote: Ok...so here's something I am just really curious about. There are photographers who say they want "real" models, but what does that mean exactly? I've submitted to photographers for work who were looking for "real" and have been told that they won't work with me because I'm either not skinny or...wait for it...not big enough! A little help here
Hi,
I suggest to just ignore them or take what they say with a grain of salt.
For every photographer that has been awesome to shoot with me I've had dozen's refuse.
Keep looking past the rejections and only take heed of the ones that come with a beneficial and helpful reason why. Jen
When they advertise "real", they advertise it as "real sized", meaning real women...
All women are real women, regardless of their size. But in the fashion world "real-sized" does have a specific meaning to those doing the casting and agencies. Unfortunately it does not mean a woman of any size/shape. They still look for certain proportions.
So you might have been the right waist, but your hips are too big/small for the look they want. Maybe they wanted bigger/smaller breasts.
It may also be that the people saying you are not the right size is their attempt at letting you down easy because there is some other factor they don't like. This is not a critique and I only looked at your profile enough to see what size you were listing. Maybe they didn't care for the size of your nose, the way you pose, or your smile (or lack of).
And maybe the other people that submitted to the casting just had that certain thing the client was looking for - the intangible. They may have had 10 models with the exact same sizes as you apply. They have to choose one.
When I am casting I will rarely provide all of the reasons why someone did not get a job. I might tell them if they clearly did not meet the criteria of the casting. For right now I am looking for 5'9" size 0-4, if a size 10 applies I don't mind telling her she did not meet the criteria because all the dresses are 0-4. But when I have 5 size 2 models to choose from I won't be giving a reason to the 4 that did not get the gig why - often because I just like one look over the other for that specific job. Which is really just to say you can't always know why you don't get a gig, even if they tell you.
Perhaps you need to evaluate what kind of castings you should be pursuing to improve your odds.
salvatori.
Posts: 2,621
State College, Pennsylvania, US
GinaChic wrote: Ok...so here's something I am just really curious about. There are photographers who say they want "real" models, but what does that mean exactly? I've submitted to photographers for work who were looking for "real" and have been told that they won't work with me because I'm either not skinny or...wait for it...not big enough! A little help here
I have absolutely no idea what other photographers want when they advertise for 'real' models.
For me... I want real models. What does that mean? Well, as natural as possible; the girl-next-door. Natural hair that isn't teased, bleached, colored or cut too perfectly. NO plastic surgery of any kind, no botox, nothing. A woman who is comfortable wearing zero makeup, hair shit or jewelry. Body hair if I'm shooting her nude. And for Lord's sake, as little 'attitude' as possible.
Thanks what I look for in a 'real' model. But considering how out of the loop I am, it's probably a very different list than what most want.
salvatori. wrote: I have absolutely no idea what other photographers want when they advertise for 'real' models.
For me... I want real models. What does that mean? Well, as natural as possible; the girl-next-door. Natural hair that isn't teased, bleached, colored or cut too perfectly. NO plastic surgery of any kind, no botox, nothing. A woman who is comfortable wearing zero makeup, hair shit or jewelry. Body hair if I'm shooting her nude. And for Lord's sake, as little 'attitude' as possible.
Thanks what I look for in a 'real' model. But considering how out of the loop I am, it's probably a very different list than what most want.
IMHO
I think this is right. When photographers and artists contact me to model for them, they always mention the word "real" and those are usually some of the details they mention. Looking like an average person that you wouldn't think was a model if you saw them in a grocery store or the changing room at the pool means real to a lot of people.
Difficult to tell but one thing I will say is that you don't really fit the description of a "plus size" model in most markets. I think you just barely sneak into the range.
http://newmodels.com/Plus.html
So advertising yourself as such may be throwing them off.
Maybe by 'real" they mean paid professional models? Like you do this for a living real? Who knows
They are looking for models who's connection with the camera is more important then perfect T&A. They have Real smiles. Real poses. Not plastic perfection. A blemish or two. Not a diva. Character in the image. Collaboration. Communication. Messages that are more than just "tweets". Down to earth. Girl next door.
Saedcantas wrote: Maybe make a portfolio review post in the critiques forum and that way people can help you see your portfolio from the perspective of these potential photographers
GinaChic wrote: Ok...so here's something I am just really curious about. There are photographers who say they want "real" models, but what does that mean exactly? I've submitted to photographers for work who were looking for "real" and have been told that they won't work with me because I'm either not skinny or...wait for it...not big enough! A little help here
Real means something entirely different in the industry. Usually real is used in conjunction with more commercial. If you are not HF model, you are "real". Real tends to be considered anything between 5'4 and 5'9 height. 5'4 and under is rarely an exception for commercial print work.
As for their comments on your weight... Just focus on keeping yourself lean, healthy, and fit for being a commercial model.
GinaChic wrote: Ok...so here's something I am just really curious about. There are photographers who say they want "real" models, but what does that mean exactly? I've submitted to photographers for work who were looking for "real" and have been told that they won't work with me because I'm either not skinny or...wait for it...not big enough! A little help here
To me, a "realistic" model is one who knows where she fits into things. She doesn't ask for pay from someone who has much better work than her, unless it's a commercial project, she doesn't make inappropriate demands, and so forth.
But it sounds like the people you are talking with are using it differently.
In my experience (being between agency standard stats for straight and plus sizes) "real sized" either means plus-sized/bbw, or it can mean somewhere between straight and plus sized.
Which correlates to the responses you get too.
If you reply to a casting where they are looking for a size 4-10 (between straight and plus sized, or at least in the grey error), you'll get told you're too big for that casting.
If they are looking for a bbw model, they are typically looking for very large stats, and a very large cup size. So you could be told you are too small.
So just reply to all of them in case you are the look they want. If you aren't, no harm done.
My first impression when you said the photographer asked for "real" models was that he was taking a not-so-subtle dig at hobbyist models.
The opposite of real is fake, right? And who do people on here refer to as fake models? The Facebook Princesses, pretenders and pretty faces who are self-proclaimed models but don't take it seriously and have never really done anything within modeling other than have their photo taken a few times.
A "real" model could be seen as a professional, full-time model or an Agency-represented model who is actively working.
GinaChic wrote: Ok...so here's something I am just really curious about. There are photographers who say they want "real" models, but what does that mean exactly? I've submitted to photographers for work who were looking for "real" and have been told that they won't work with me because I'm either not skinny or...wait for it...not big enough! A little help here
Also, "real" and "realistic" in the context of your post are different words with different meanings. Did he say he wanted "real models" or "realistic"?
Also, "real" and "realistic" in the context of your post are different words with different meanings. Did he say he wanted "real models" or "realistic"?
"Real" often refers to "real sized" as opposed to level of professionalism/pay.
Within the context of the post I assume that is what she is referring to.
Leighthenubian wrote: I wanted to join a certain country club when I first moved to Canada from the US...they told me I wasn't right for the club...despite having the ability to pay the $25K annual fee (rather, my parents were gonna pay). Later found out it was my skin color...a thing I should have known.
I did get the standard tour and there wasn't a minority face to be seen..if you didn't count "the help". This was late 80's, early 90's...times have changed since then but pushing it back then would have been a waste of my time and resources.
Gotta be realistic about some things in life.
Im sorry this happened to you, it absolutely should not have.
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 17,059
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium
GinaChic wrote:
When they advertise "real", they advertise it as "real sized", meaning real women...
as opposed to fashion models who are not real, but made of plastic?
I agree with the photographer saying that it means agencystandard models (whether that is straight or plus), considering that you get replies that you are not skinny or big enough. if it was about "realsized women" (I do understand what you mean by that, I just really dislike the term) then your size would not be an issue.
GinaChic wrote: When they advertise "real", they advertise it as "real sized", meaning real women...
In fashion for example, there are industry standards that those in fashion use to look for models for work. Generally it is referred to as the "industry standard" instead of just blatantly sharing that they don't think you will fit the role. In other markets for example, it is very much more interpreted and open to the view of the individual photographer/stylist/art director where their "ideal" person will come to mind. but you should ask whomever you are attempting to work with. The worst that can happen is that they will say no if you cast with them in which you move on. good luck
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