I've been trying for a couple months now to find models in my area to shoot with me on a TF basis without any luck at all. I've watched as new models signed up and contacted them directly and I've done the Local Availability/Casting Calls as well. I can't even get the models to reply to my messages. So I'm wondering if it's me, personally, or if perhaps I'm falling victim to the numbers game.
I just did some searches for photographers and models in my area and was shocked to find that there are roughly one photographer for every model. If I look at photographers vs. all models (Compensation: Any) the ratio is 1.2 models per photographer. If I look at models that might do TF (Compensation: Depends on Assignment) it is almost exactly 1:1. Looking at models that list as Time for Print the ratio is an amazing 48:1 photographers to models. All of this is based on models and photographers that have logged on in the last 180 days. It's actually slightly worse if I look at 60 days.
So, I'm looking for advice from veteran members as to what I need to do in order to succeed when the deck is stacked against me. I know that I need to build my portfolio and include more diverse models and poses, but how to do that without booking models to shoot?
Is the only answer to hire models to build the portfolio and then hope to be able to attract TF sessions in the future?
If your current methods are failing, then it is time for a change. Paying models to improve your portfolio is the best path to featuring great photos of your work. When you have a great portfolio, more models will want to work with you TF.
I'm losing severely at this game.
I've contacted a bunch of agency models for their rates for doing simple fashion work, no nudes nor implied and I get zero responses. I may give up real soon. I've had it.
Photographic Adventures wrote: I've been trying for a couple months now to find models in my area to shoot with me on a TF basis without any luck at all. I've watched as new models signed up and contacted them directly and I've done the Local Availability/Casting Calls as well. I can't even get the models to reply to my messages. So I'm wondering if it's me, personally, or if perhaps I'm falling victim to the numbers game.
This is what worked for me. In my portfolio I had some very simple, clean headshots and many new models were looking for that for their portfolio.
Do you notice that these new models are going to other photographers in your area to do TF shoots? If so, what sort of photos are they doing? Is it similar to what you are pitching to these models?
Can you provide an example of what you write when you message models? Perhaps there is something there which is turning them away?
Loki Studio wrote: If your current methods are failing, then it is time for a change. Paying models to improve your portfolio is the best path to featuring great photos of your work. When you have a great portfolio, more models will want to work with you TF.
You might be right and I've been coming to that conclusion myself. I guess I need to start putting aside a some money for this purpose.
BlueMoonPics wrote: I'm losing severely at this game.
I've contacted a bunch of agency models for their rates for doing simple fashion work, no nudes nor implied and I get zero responses. I may give up real soon. I've had it.
Sorry to hear that. You have a good looking portfolio. I'm surprised that you have that problem in New York.
David Kirk wrote: This is what worked for me. In my portfolio I had some very simple, clean headshots and many new models were looking for that for their portfolio.
Do you notice that these new models are going to other photographers in your area to do TF shoots? If so, what sort of photos are they doing? Is it similar to what you are pitching to these models?
Can you provide an example of what you write when you message models? Perhaps there is something there which is turning them away?
So far, several of the models have not updated their portfolios and still have some very basic "point and Shoot" photos on their port.
As for the others, I haven't looked into the portfolios of the photographers that did shoot them. That's a good idea.
As far as what I write, here is a sample:
"Hi, <model's name>!
I see that you are new to MM and I'd love to have an opportunity to shoot with you. I'm new to MM as well and I'd like to work with models like yourself to help build our portfolios. Please have a look at my bio and portfolio and, if interested, contact me so that we can make arrangements.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Best Regards, Al"
This, and several variations, has so far yielded zero replies from the models. Maybe I need to hire a greetings writer
Good Egg Productions wrote: Shoot friends.
Shoot their friends.
Use Facebook and other social media.
Rinse, repeat.
The vast majority of people I shoot don't come from MM.
I've tried the shooting friends and, maybe based our ages (mid 50's), I seem to only get simple portrait sessions. Using Facebook I seem to get mostly requests to shoot babies, toddlers and family portraits. I love to shoot that stuff, but I'm looking to expand beyond that.
So far, several of the models have not updated their portfolios and still have some very basic "point and Shoot" photos on their port.
As for the others, I haven't looked into the portfolios of the photographers that did shoot them. That's a good idea.
As far as what I write, here is a sample:
"Hi, <model's name>!
I see that you are new to MM and I'd love to have an opportunity to shoot with you. I'm new to MM as well and I'd like to work with models like yourself to help build our portfolios. Please have a look at my bio and portfolio and, if interested, contact me so that we can make arrangements.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Best Regards, Al"
This, and several variations, has so far yielded zero replies from the models. Maybe I need to hire a greetings writer
Well, there's nothing too alarming in there, but you may consider modifying it to remove the "I see that you're new to MM...." part. May sound to them as though you're trolling for new (inexperienced models). Also, try to provide an idea of what you want to shoot with the model and why you have selected them for the project (other than they are new).
Here is a sample of what I have recently sent to a model who was new to MM (we are now scheduling the shoot):
Welcome to Model Mayhem!
You have a fantastic look and wonderful facial structure and I would really like to shoot with you.
My immediate interest is for a project where I am experimenting with different techniques for creating headshots which blend portrait and beauty styles together.
Let me know if you'd be interested in shooting together (TFCD) and if so we can discuss details.
David Kirk wrote: Well, there's nothing too alarming in there, but you may consider modifying it to remove the "I see that you're new to MM...." part. May sound to them as though you're trolling for new (inexperienced models). Also, try to provide an idea of what you want to shoot with the model and why you have selected them for the project (other than they are new).
Here is a sample of what I have recently sent to a model who was new to MM (we are now scheduling the shoot):
Welcome to Model Mayhem!
You have a fantastic look and wonderful facial structure and I would really like to shoot with you.
My immediate interest is for a project where I am experimenting with different techniques for creating headshots which blend portrait and beauty styles together.
Let me know if you'd be interested in shooting together (TFCD) and if so we can discuss details.
Maybe you can try a group shoot. Here is my story...
When I first started here I was getting very few people to work with me. I needed to ramp the shoots up so I went to a group shoot. The group shoot was lingerie and this was not the direction I really wanted to go in but I saw that they had one on one sessions with the models. So I did one on one sessions in the style that I wanted to shoot, mainly actor style head shots and tried some fashion stuff.
The head shots actually got actresses to contact me out of the blue to request shoots. I am very happy with this.
Currently my secondary goal is to build a fashion portfolio. The problem, I think, in NYC is that anyone with a halfway decent face gets signed up with an agency and all of a sudden they become untouchable unless you are a photographer in the business.
I say this because it happened to me. There was a model I was in contact with from another state that just moved to NYC. I thought she had a great agency look. We were writing back and forth, setting up details of a shoot. She was very friendly telling me how her other shoots were going, etc. All of a sudden she stopped writing. I was scratching my head. Later I learned she had been signed with an agency and now won't work with a photographer unless they are in the business. Darn.
salvatori.
Posts: 2,604
State College, Pennsylvania, US
Photographic Adventures wrote: I've been trying for a couple months now to find models in my area to shoot with me on a TF basis without any luck at all. I've watched as new models signed up and contacted them directly and I've done the Local Availability/Casting Calls as well. I can't even get the models to reply to my messages. So I'm wondering if it's me, personally, or if perhaps I'm falling victim to the numbers game.
I just did some searches for photographers and models in my area and was shocked to find that there are roughly one photographer for every model. If I look at photographers vs. all models (Compensation: Any) the ratio is 1.2 models per photographer. If I look at models that might do TF (Compensation: Depends on Assignment) it is almost exactly 1:1. Looking at models that list as Time for Print the ratio is an amazing 48:1 photographers to models. All of this is based on models and photographers that have logged on in the last 180 days. It's actually slightly worse if I look at 60 days.
So, I'm looking for advice from veteran members as to what I need to do in order to succeed when the deck is stacked against me. I know that I need to build my portfolio and include more diverse models and poses, but how to do that without booking models to shoot?
Is the only answer to hire models to build the portfolio and then hope to be able to attract TF sessions in the future?
I am in the State College area and it may seem like a very different place than Pittsburgh, but in the modeling game, it really isn't. I know your area pretty well and you have the same problem that I do attracting models to work with.
Your city is too far away from any type of modeling metropolis like NYC or Chicago so you are stuck picking from strippers, wannabes and the occasional strong model. Trouble is, as you state, there are lots of photographers looking to shoot that rare model.
What you could pay a girl who dances is nothing compared to what she makes at a club. Of course, the work isn't the same, but to her, it is. She is taking her clothes off and getting paid. And what you can pay her is nothing compared to what she is going to make with a few lap dances. And if you want to shoot them clothed, it becomes a case of a girl who is always 'on' and sometimes difficult to get her to seem like a model and not a dancer.
And of course, there is the fact that dancers get groped in clubs, so they are the type that's gonna want an escort when she comes to you.
I market for models outside of MM. Craigslist isn't bad, but flyers and classified ads in local college newspapers will do better.
BlueMoonPics wrote: Maybe you can try a group shoot. Here is my story...
When I first started here I was getting very few people to work with me. I needed to ramp the shoots up so I went to a group shoot. The group shoot was lingerie and this was not the direction I really wanted to go in but I saw that they had one on one sessions with the models. So I did one on one sessions in the style that I wanted to shoot, mainly actor style head shots and tried some fashion stuff.
The head shots actually got actresses to contact me out of the blue to request shoots. I am very happy with this.
Currently my secondary goal is to build a fashion portfolio. The problem, I think, in NYC is that anyone with a halfway decent face gets signed up with an agency and all of a sudden they become untouchable unless you are a photographer in the business.
I say this because it happened to me. There was a model I was in contact with from another state that just moved to NYC. I thought she had a great agency look. We were writing back and forth, setting up details of a shoot. She was very friendly telling me how her other shoots were going, etc. All of a sudden she stopped writing. I was scratching my head. Later I learned she had been signed with an agency and now won't work with a photographer unless they are in the business. Darn.
Actually, my first attempt at shooting models was at a group meetup. There were three models, but two that I seemed to fall in sync with and had a great time shooting. Afterward I found out that both had MM portfolios. I sent them the finished photos and both models added them to their portfolios. One hes been using one as her avatar ever since. I have added ta few of those to my portfolio as well.
The next group meetup was cancelled because all three of the models backed out at the last minute. I contacted on of the models to do another session and was told that she's too busy with paid work to do any more TF.
I was hoping that having a few credited photos in a model's port would be a help. Perhaps it's too early to tell.
I suggest paying. It doesn't have to be a huge expense, often $15-$25 per hour will work.
Don't place too much emphasis on what happens when you contact models on MM, especially in the early going. Colleges, CL, social media and personal contact are all good ways to find models. Most of mine come from sources other than MM.
FilmmakerDC
Posts: 209
Washington, District of Columbia, US
In my experience, new models are the worst to contact because they almost never respond. Think of it this way, new models are fresh meet around here, they will have every photographer messaging them for shoots when they first sign up. It's a feeding frenzy. They get overwhelmed and just stop responding as they weed out the creepers who are usually in the first few waves.
I might suggest you be a little more descriptive in what you want to shoot. Vague phrases like "push abilities" and "comfort level" are often used to mean nude, fetish and erotic. If thats what you want to shoot, you should target those models directly. If by "push abilities", you really mean that you want to try shooting at night in a city scape to learn how to control the flash in different situations, just say so. "Comfort level" implies nervousness and insecurity..so what are you really looking for? Do you want to shoot a 2 girls at once, that might be new and uncomfortable ..then cast for a girl/girl shoot. Using vague comments have a creeper aspect for some models and they simply get wierded out and don't respond.
I would recommend looking at traveling models and pay for a 2 hour shoot with one whose look you like or who will shoot what you really want to shoot without the vagueness. Its a win win ..you get a experienced model and value for your dollar. It's an investment in your work and will pay dividends later on.
Try posting a casting call. Instead of emailing girls directly. With a casting, they come to you if they are interested. It's good way to see if there is any interest in what you are offering. Also, just because model dont respond doesn't always mean that they aren't interested. Many messages are never opened, there are lots of girls who don't even open unsolicited messages.
Otherwise, there are other hobbies, maybe this one isn't for you ..or try shooting lanscapes, food or sports. You can enjoy photography without shooting women and girls.
I think it's worthy of asking what your big picture is here. You say in your profile that, "Photography has been an important part of my life for over 30 years" so the obvious issue aside that you're having difficulty finding models after working in this industry for 30 years is odd, I think it's time for you to evaluate what your game plan is here. Are you looking for models to shoot for fun or as a hobby? Then like any hobby, there are expenses and generally speaking, for a hobbiest, photography is pretty cheap. Don't believe me, go take up RC planes or coin collecting and then tell me how expensive photography as a hobby is!
But if you are looking for models to build a professional portfolio as a means of doing business, there really are only a handful of photographers who make a great income shooting models because usually models are broke, have no need to pay photographers because there are a zillion freebies in their area, or don't see the value of their work. In the end, it really comes down to value. If a model sees no value in doing a test shoot with you then you need to up your game and pry open your wallet. Assuming you shoot great models well (not every photographer does) then that might build value to your portfolio to where an aspiring model might be interested in doing a test shoot with you instead of the 20 other photographers that asked them this week.
salvatori. wrote: I am in the State College area and it may seem like a very different place than Pittsburgh, but in the modeling game, it really isn't. I know your area pretty well and you have the same problem that I do attracting models to work with.
Your city is too far away from any type of modeling metropolis like NYC or Chicago so you are stuck picking from strippers, wannabes and the occasional strong model. Trouble is, as you state, there are lots of photographers looking to shoot that rare model.
What you could pay a girl who dances is nothing compared to what she makes at a club. Of course, the work isn't the same, but to her, it is. She is taking her clothes off and getting paid. And what you can pay her is nothing compared to what she is going to make with a few lap dances. And if you want to shoot them clothed, it becomes a case of a girl who is always 'on' and sometimes difficult to get her to seem like a model and not a dancer.
And of course, there is the fact that dancers get groped in clubs, so they are the type that's gonna want an escort when she comes to you.
I market for models outside of MM. Craigslist isn't bad, but flyers and classified ads in local college newspapers will do better.
IMHO
I am a bit surprised that things aren't much better in a college town. At this point, I wasn't really thinking of shooting nudes, although I do have a few ideas for some pin-up style stuff that would involve nudity, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that right now. Was looking to get my feet wet shooting TF.
I'll have to consider Craigslist, flyers and classifieds.
salvatori.
Posts: 2,604
State College, Pennsylvania, US
Photographic Adventures wrote:
I am a bit surprised that things aren't much better in a college town. At this point, I wasn't really thinking of shooting nudes, although I do have a few ideas for some pin-up style stuff that would involve nudity, but I'm not sure I'm ready for that right now. Was looking to get my feet wet shooting TF.
I'll have to consider Craigslist, flyers and classifieds.
Thanks!
Best of luck. One place I forgot... if you are looking to do pinup, theatre departments are good places to visit and/or contact, especially for tf. You can trade some head shots and acting-style pics with budding actresses. And if you pay them (even a little) you will have replies.
Photographic Adventures wrote: So far, several of the models have not updated their portfolios and still have some very basic "point and Shoot" photos on their port.
As for the others, I haven't looked into the portfolios of the photographers that did shoot them. That's a good idea.
As far as what I write, here is a sample:
"Hi, <model's name>!
I see that you are new to MM and I'd love to have an opportunity to shoot with you. I'm new to MM as well and I'd like to work with models like yourself to help build our portfolios. Please have a look at my bio and portfolio and, if interested, contact me so that we can make arrangements.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Best Regards, Al"
This, and several variations, has so far yielded zero replies from the models. Maybe I need to hire a greetings writer
I would only add a second paragraph:
- - - - -
I'm especially interested in shooting:
A (A genre or style that interests you and that you have one or two examples of in
your portfolio)
B (Another genre or style that interests you and that you have one or two
examples of in your portfolio)
C (Another genre or style that interests you and that you have one or two
examples of in your portfolio)
If any of these interest you, or if you have anything special that you'd like to try, I'd like to talk further with you to see if we'd be a good team.
- - - - -
My guess is that when a model looks at your portfolio and sees only portraits her assumption would be that this is all you're capable of or interested in. If you have any commercial, fashion or figure work in your portfolio, you might want to add them to your MM portfolio. You said,"I was hoping that having a few credited photos in a model's port would be a help." Having them in your port would be more helpful.
The home studio might be a turnoff as well even though it's clear that it is, in fact, a professional studio, so you might want to also suggest a meeting in a public place such as a Starbuck's, etc. and/or indicate that you are willing to accept an escort, provide a MUA, etc, if that is your policy.
And remember, "Genius is divine perseverence." (Woodrow Wilson)
FilmmakerDC
Posts: 209
Washington, District of Columbia, US
I just noticed you castings. It reads more like a yellow pages ad for an open studio. It sounds like you are look for the model to provide the inspiration, concept and you just push the button.
Try bringing the concept to the model. Say you want to shoot a simple cliche series of girls in a white shirt and jeans ..cast for that. Say you want to work on shooting glamour bikini shots like maxim...advertise FOR THAT.
Models need direction ..they are trying to fit your mold and your vision. If you have no vision ..i can see why you are not getting any responses to these castings.
FilmmakerDC wrote: In my experience, new models are the worst to contact because they almost never respond. Think of it this way, new models are fresh meet around here, they will have every photographer messaging them for shoots when they first sign up. It's a feeding frenzy. They get overwhelmed and just stop responding as they weed out the creepers who are usually in the first few waves.
I can see your point. From my perspective I was thinking that they'd be more likely to respond, wanting to get a professional looking portfolio started. OTOH, I just today realized that there were so many photographers out there chasing the same few models.
FilmmakerDC wrote: I might suggest you be a little more descriptive in what you want to shoot. Vague phrases like "push abilities" and "comfort level" are often used to mean nude, fetish and erotic. If thats what you want to shoot, you should target those models directly. If by "push abilities", you really mean that you want to try shooting at night in a city scape to learn how to control the flash in different situations, just say so. "Comfort level" implies nervousness and insecurity..so what are you really looking for? Do you want to shoot a 2 girls at once, that might be new and uncomfortable ..then cast for a girl/girl shoot. Using vague comments have a creeper aspect for some models and they simply get wierded out and don't respond.
Again, I didn't really see the potential negative connotations of those words and phrases. I never intended them to be interpreted that way.
I'm sometimes a bit nervous and awkward when trying to pose strangers and that gets in the way when I'm shooting high school seniors and other strangers in my startup portrait business. My thoughts were that shooting more frequently and different genres would help my comfort level when shooting strangers. The more I do it the more I feel at ease posing strangers. I need repetition.
OTOH, I've become more attracted to shooting people than landscapes and wildlife.
I'm going to revisit my bio.
FilmmakerDC wrote: I would recommend looking at traveling models and pay for a 2 hour shoot with one whose look you like or who will shoot what you really want to shoot without the vagueness. Its a win win ..you get a experienced model and value for your dollar. It's an investment in your work and will pay dividends later on.
Try posting a casting call. Instead of emailing girls directly. With a casting, they come to you if they are interested. It's good way to see if there is any interest in what you are offering. Also, just because model dont respond doesn't always mean that they aren't interested. Many messages are never opened, there are lots of girls who don't even open unsolicited messages.
I guess I need to start saving money to spend on models. I just completed outfitting my studio, so I'm a little short at the moment
I tried the local availability notices and got zero response, but, again, it might be the way I wrote them. I'll try a casting call for something more specific and see what happens.
I answered a casting call that was almost exactly what I had in my local availability notice and still couldn't get a reply. It must be me.
FilmmakerDC wrote: Otherwise, there are other hobbies, maybe this one isn't for you ..or try shooting lanscapes, food or sports. You can enjoy photography without shooting women and girls.
I actually have several hobbies (photography, Gardening and woodworking). In fact too many. But this is the one I enjoy most. I started out shooting wildlife and landscapes. I then shot events for a while (too much like work), Then back to wildlife and landscapes. I also shot my daughter as she was growing up. When my daughter was approaching her senior year she insisted that she wanted me to be her photographer. I geared up for it and found friends and family to let me shoot them for practice. I also shot several of her friends. I found that I really liked shooting people, so that's where I am at the moment. I'd like to make a part time living with photography after I retire.
My supply of willing practice subjects is drying up. I had several virtual photographer friends tell me to join MM and I could get a lot of experience and develop a style by shooting models. So here I am and mot doing very well at it.
Rays Fine Art wrote: I would only add a second paragraph:
- - - - -
I'm especially interested in shooting:
A (A genre or style that interests you and that you have one or two examples of in
your portfolio)
B (Another genre or style that interests you and that you have one or two
examples of in your portfolio)
C (Another genre or style that interests you and that you have one or two
examples of in your portfolio)
If any of these interest you, or if you have anything special that you'd like to try, I'd like to talk further with you to see if we'd be a good team.
- - - - -
My guess is that when a model looks at your portfolio and sees only portraits her assumption would be that this is all you're capable of or interested in. If you have any commercial, fashion or figure work in your portfolio, you might want to add them to your MM portfolio. You said,"I was hoping that having a few credited photos in a model's port would be a help." Having them in your port would be more helpful.
The home studio might be a turnoff as well even though it's clear that it is, in fact, a professional studio, so you might want to also suggest a meeting in a public place such as a Starbuck's, etc. and/or indicate that you are willing to accept an escort, provide a MUA, etc, if that is your policy.
And remember, "Genius is divine perseverence." (Woodrow Wilson)
Thanks again for you insights. Six of the 15 photos in my portfolio are from two models I shot at a group event and I have credited them in my portfolio.
Perhaps I should from the home studio from the bio. Other than it being on the small side (14x22) it's pretty well equipped. I'm not sure I would have done anything much differently if I had been renting a space, other than size.
Now, my impression from what I read on the forums here is that the general consensus is that pre-meetings with models were a wast of time and energy. I have no problem with doing that, in fact I like to meet the people I shoot ahead of time because it helps me to prepare the studio for the session (i.e. which side to set the key and fill lights, etc.).
The seriousness of models will obviously vary from place to place. As I look at model profiles within 100 miles of my location, most have done a only a few shoots, likely with photographers they know and then never shoot again. More model and than photographer profiles does not mean more models actively seeking to do shoot, especially TF.
On MM, I've had very little success with casting calls. Most of the shoots I do were either from contacting MM models directly or by placing a casting on craigslist. In terms of TF, craigslist has been much, much better to me than MM.
For what ever reason, I find things tend to come in spurts as well, possibly driven in part by the academic calendar. I can have a few shoots in a short time period, followed by a dry spell. My philosophy now is to shoot models when they are interested and focus on other things when they are not.
FilmmakerDC wrote: I just noticed you castings. It reads more like a yellow pages ad for an open studio. It sounds like you are look for the model to provide the inspiration, concept and you just push the button.
Try bringing the concept to the model. Say you want to shoot a simple cliche series of girls in a white shirt and jeans ..cast for that. Say you want to work on shooting glamour bikini shots like maxim...advertise FOR THAT.
Models need direction ..they are trying to fit your mold and your vision. If you have no vision ..i can see why you are not getting any responses to these castings.
I thought I had a path to a win-win situation. Oh, well live and learn and that's why I'm here asking questions after having given it a few tries and a little time.
As a newbie I asked how to get started and I was told to contact models and so casting calls and availability notices. I did that, however unsuccessfully. I now have to learn from my mistakes as the wisdom of others who have succeeded.
Abbitt Photography wrote: The seriousness of models will obviously vary from place to place. As I look at model profiles within 100 miles of my location, most have done a only a few shoots, likely with photographers they know and then never shoot again. More model and than photographer profiles does not mean more models actively seeking to do shoot, especially TF.
On MM, I've had very little success with casting calls. Most of the shoots I do were either from contacting MM models directly or by placing a casting on craigslist. In terms of TF, craigslist has been much, much better to me than MM.
For what ever reason, I find things tend to come in spurts as well, possibly driven in part by the academic calendar. I can have a few shoots in a short time period, followed by a dry spell. My philosophy now is to shoot models when they are interested and focus on other things when they are not.
that's what i did. and i still have trouble getting trade models to show up with any regularity.
the traveling nude models are awesome.
i've had three photographers borrow my studio recently and all three have been flaked on. the latest flake was a combination of the model staying out too late and then having to deal with some baby nutria because her dog ate mom.
for the trade models i just don't think going on these shoots is the highest priority in their lives.
also consider group shoots like meetup.com
sometimes having a good concept/location can help. and having a MUA (but they might charge you if the model flakes).
i've had more luck getting models away from mayhem. one model sold me my phone at costco. i think if you meet them in person maybe there's a better chance they'll show.
i did a TF casting here once and on CL and got zero here and three off CL.
you can post in critique forum for feedback on your work. do you shoot more than headshots? a lot of models need headshots but maybe they'll think that's all you do?
Photographic Adventures wrote: Is the only answer to hire models to build the portfolio and then hope to be able to attract TF sessions in the future?
Chyna N wrote: Travel to other areas. There may be models outside of your general area that would be willing.
I guess that could be an option. I have a photographer friend in Granbury, Texas that has a studio and he's always asking me to come down and shoot with him and give him some pointers on technique and lighting. I could do a casting/availability notice for that area.
Of course, the obvious problem with that is that it would cost me a whole lot more to do that, with travel, hotel and car, than to hire local models.
The problem is, it's not a numbers game. The ratios don't matter if the people associated with those numbers can't/don't provide what the other needs...whether it's photographers looking for models or vice versa.
I always had bad luck with new models. They get so many messages once they sign up. Plus there are a lot of people who sign up and just never really do much, if anything, at all. A lot of people like to have a profile so they can tell their friends they are a model, or they thought modeling sounded fun but never followed through afterwards. Not to write off new models, every once in awhile you can find a diamond in the rough. Just don't let them discourage you too much.
I read your message in a post above. I would also try adding a concept or theme to it. Usually I provide a somewhat similar picture example if I can. Models will be more excited to shoot with you if there is an idea, rather then "hey, let's shoot".
Things are slow starting out, but you just need to get the ball rolling. To speed the process up you can considering paying models. The traveling models on this site I have found to be awesome and reliable.
ontherocks wrote: you can post in critique forum for feedback on your work. do you shoot more than headshots? a lot of models need headshots but maybe they'll think that's all you do?
My background over the last several years has been shooting family portraits, first birthday's, kids, first communions, and senior class portraits. As such, I really don't have a lot of things that I think might be appropriate for an MM portfolio. I have some other types of shots, mostly of the senior high girls, but, I don't feel comfortable using them in my MM port.
I can easily see that my port is quite limited in style and range. Maybe I need to go back to the shots from my last (and incidentally my first) meet-up shoot and look at adding other poses than headshots. Since headshots are what I'm most comfortable with I chose them because I thought they were the best.
JAE Photography PA wrote: I always had bad luck with new llamas. They get so many messages once they sign up. Plus there are a lot of people who sign up and just never really do much, if anything, at all. A lot of people like to have a profile so they can tell their friends they are a llama, or they thought llamaing sounded fun but never followed through afterwards. Not to write off new llamas, every once in awhile you can find a diamond in the rough. Just don't let them discourage you too much.
I read your message in a post above. I would also try adding a concept or theme to it. Usually I provide a somewhat similar picture example if I can. llamas will be more excited to shoot with you if there is an idea, rather then "hey, let's shoot".
Things are slow starting out, but you just need to get the ball rolling. To speed the process up you can considering paying llamas. The traveling llamas on this site I have found to be awesome and reliable.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I think you are right about the concept/theme. That's something I need to work on. I'm actually conversing with an MM Wardrobe Stylist on developing a few concepts that to shoot that would be of mutual benefit to both of out profiles. In fact, she is the only person I contacted on MM that has replied to me and it has been a very pleasant dialog so far. Maybe that will pan out.
I actually have a few ideas for, what I think would be, a fun shoot that would involve shooting nudes. I'm pretty sure I could get some responses to that one, but it would involve jumping over two hurdles. First, I need to save up a few hundred dollars to pay the llama(s). I can do that easily. The second one is more difficult. It involves getting permission from SHMBO, to shoot nudes. That might be a little harder to accomplish
So, for now, I need on work on developing a few safe ideas.
Photographic Adventures wrote: You might be right and I've been coming to that conclusion myself. I guess I need to start putting aside a some money for this purpose.
$$$ is the only factor you can control at this moment. At some point, it is also logical to spend 5 minutes posting a casting call for paid work that gets 5 qualified responses, rather than spend 5 hours sending out messages and comments that get 5 qualified responses.
In many markets-$50 an hour will get you good freelane fashion/commercial models. Swimwear & Lingerie are generally higher at $75-100 an hour.
A model's rates are mostly dependent upon the supply & demand of suitable local models. If you can't find models to work for TF*, you may have to consider paying them.
Speaking of paying -- have you tried checking out the traveling models? These models tend to be more versed in closing the deal.
The solution to many problems is networking. Get to know your local photographers, including the successful ones. Become a resource to them. For example, compile a list of resources and/or locations & share them. I summarize the traveling models list on a weekly basis. Invite folks out for coffee. Get to work.
If you are getting consistent (non)results, then it's safe to assume it is you. Make some changes. We lack sufficient information to critique your approach, but whatever it is, try something different (and hopefully better).
Again, without looking at your portfolio, create a terrific portfolio. However good your images are, get better images.
Work at photographing non-models. Practice by photographing your family & friends. Approach people on the street. Try your hand at other genres.
$$$ is the only factor you can control at this moment. At some point, it is also logical to spend 5 minutes posting a casting call for paid work that gets 5 qualified responses, rather than spend 5 hours sending out messages and comments that get 5 qualified responses.
In many markets-$50 an hour will get you good freelane fashion/commercial models. Swimwear & Lingerie are generally higher at $75-100 an hour.
Given the old adage that time is money, I've probably spent more already trying to shoot FT* than I would have spent to hire a model.
Speaking of models, I'd like to get more comments and feedback from models on this. So far only one model replied. There seems to be a pattern here
| 
| 
| edu