I'd like to make a very large (25' x 25') scrim/diffusion panel/silk for outdoor use. When I look at things like ripstop fabric, I can get it long enough, but maximum width is about 5'. I'd hate to have to sew all that together. I've looked at tents & canopies, but their fabric seems to be too opaque.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. . . .
LA StarShooter
Posts: 1,038
Beverly Hills, California, US
Michael Broughton wrote: sewing 100' of straight seams wouldn't be all that much work actually. what do you need a 2 and a half story scrim for?
Parts of Texas experience extremely harsh light and if he's doing group shots out doors or a couple of motor vehicles a panel that size could be very useful for either reflection or diffusion. I have from Calumet a 78 inch by 48 inch panel. I can put reflector cloth or diffusion fabric on it. I am so pleased with it and its price that I will be buying another. It is amazing.
Philip of Dallas wrote: I do underwater shoots in a pool and I'd like to soften the hard sunlight. I don't know how to operate a sewing machine, to sew fabric together.
Go somewhere local that offers tailoring, alterations, etc - sewing (5) 25' seams shouldnt take much time at all.
Or buy a sewing machine, and learn to sew a straight seam, it's not hard.
Thomas Van Dyke
Posts: 1,188
Washington, District of Columbia, US
Philip of Dallas wrote: I do underwater shoots in a pool and I'd like to soften the hard sunlight. I don't know how to operate a sewing machine, to sew fabric together.
Surplus Solid White Parachute Canopy...
Ideal for use over a pool...
They are commonly available in the classic 26' diameter
but a 15 foot Flare Parachute Canopy (cheap) would probably do the trick...
Keep in mind that deploying this may be a challenge...
The slightest breeze and you may have your hands full...
I've used these indoors but outdoors? that could be tricky...
Fabric just comes in a couple widths, so no matter what you try to do, you'll end up with something that is seamed together. Surely you know someone who can sew. And it really isn't that much work to sew a 25 ft seam. Most home machines can sew a straight stitch at the rate of about 1ft/sec., so you're looking at less than one minute of actual sewing per seam, times roughly 4 seams.
You don't even need ripstop so much, I use plain nylon or polyester taffeta for scrims. It comes in 5 foot widths, typically. Ripstop is likely more expensive than taffeta, and while it is marginally more durable, you'll still need to fix any rips that occur either way by having a patch sewed on. My 12ftx5ft scrim has yet to get a rip with taffeta, and it's been nearly two years since I made it.
Dan Howell
Posts: 1,793
Jersey City, New Jersey, US
Philip of Dallas wrote: I'd like to make a very large (25' x 25') scrim/diffusion panel/silk for outdoor use. When I look at things like ripstop fabric, I can get it long enough, but maximum width is about 5'. I'd hate to have to sew all that together. I've looked at tents & canopies, but their fabric seems to be too opaque.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. . . .
Honestly, one of the best buys in lighting modification is pre-sewn Matthews Overhead Silks. They already have reinforced edges and grommet eyes for tie lines.
Kevin Connery
Posts: 15,391
Fullerton, California, US
Michael Broughton wrote: sewing 100' of straight seams wouldn't be all that much work actually. what do you need a 2 and a half story scrim for?
20x20 overheads and 12x12 butterflies are quite common in the movie industry, as relying on the Real World's light can be a very pricey proposition with a large crew.
OP, I can almost guarantee you could find someone to sew some fabric together (french seams recommended) and reinforce the outer edge with webbing for a lot less than some of the fabrics available, but depending on the material, it might be a lot cheaper to by premade one. (Basic artificial silk (1.5-2 stops) in 20x20 is around $300-$450), and it's built to stand up to pretty hard use. If you want a more specialized fabric, though, they can be much more expensive. Doing it yourself, using 60" wide, $6.00/yard material would cost around $80 for the material, and that's before adding the (required!) edge reinforcements.)
NOTE: if you haven't worked with sails before, you need to be aware of the lift capabilities.
I'm still sorting through underwater issues only shooting 5 times the past 3 weeks but experiences so far.
For a pool shoot you probably don't need to cover the entire pool but the section your shooting in. I bought a $200 3x6m black gazebo with walls to give me a more controlled environment shooting in sunny days. White will work too and can probably replace some the side walls with the nylon if your really wanting more light. Light coming from the front will be diffused/subdued by the time it reaches the model. I use a mix of underwater strobes/speedlites/studio strobes/ambient light for some of my setups . Working in shade has cut down a lot of the back scatter/haze problems encountered on first 3 tries. directional light coming from above the pool creates the ripple lighting on the model.
Short of sewing it, there are ironable seaming tapes called "Stitch Wizardry" (you could lay it out on a patio and iron it together with a steam iron), and some new fabric glues that are very tough. The tapes and glues may prevent it from fraying too where the sewing machine might not depending on if you roll the seams or not in the machine.
On the fraying, some sail makers use a soldering iron with a tip like a chisel to cut the edge of synthetic fabrics on a glass plate to sear them so they won't fray.
You can find cheap sewing machines at places like Hancock Fabrics for as little as $50 at times during some of their weekly and monthly half-off sales. Don't need anything fancy for that, other than a large neck to shove it through.
I'd cut some slits in something that large to keep the wind from picking it up too. I had some studio unit go airborn and crash with a umbrella once. Not a pretty sight, and the sound stays with you too.
Thanks for everyone's input so far. Perhaps I should mention that I'm trying to do this inexpensively as I can. [Ahh . . . the black hole they call photography.]
Thomas Van Dyke wrote: Surplus Solid White Parachute Canopy...
Ideal for use over a pool...
I had thought of a parachute, but not sure how I could structurally frame the dome to span a pool. Can't seem to find an all-white rectangular parachute.
Kevin Connery wrote: . . .
OP, I can almost guarantee you could find someone to sew some fabric together (french seams recommended) and reinforce the outer edge with webbing for a lot less than some of the fabrics available, but depending on the material, it might be a lot cheaper to by premade one. (Basic artificial silk (1.5-2 stops) in 20x20 is around $300-$450), and it's built to stand up to pretty hard use. If you want a more specialized fabric, though, they can be much more expensive. Doing it yourself, using 60" wide, $6.00/yard material would cost around $80 for the material, and that's before adding the (required!) edge reinforcements.)
NOTE: if you haven't worked with sails before, you need to be aware of the lift capabilities.
Thanks, Kevin. I may eventually try to find someone to sew it, as others have also mentioned. I was thinking I would have it only a few feet off the ground, so hopefully lift wouldn't be so much of a problem. Do you think edge reinforcements would still be necessary with ripstop nylon?
Do you think edge reinforcements would still be necessary with ripstop nylon?
I used to work at a backpack company where we made some of the best mountaineering packs in the world. As such, I've seen just about every type of sporting/outdoor fabric you can imagine and have sewn plenty of it myself. I think people get a little over-sold on ripstop. While it certainly does minimize damage for the short run when a tear occurs, it does not stay that way for the long haul. It is really only meant to get you by until you can repair it. You will need binding tape on the edges if you wish to tie the fabric down, so that it can spread the load over a longer section of fabric. It's really not a whole lot of extra work for whomever does your sewing.
I also agree with Kevin regarding french seams. It will keep the edges from fraying by protecting them from wear. You basically stitch the seam tolerance a little smaller than you normally would with the good faces out, then fold the material back over on the seam and stitch it again with a slightly large seam allowance. The result is that the smaller seam allowance is trapped inside of a second seam allowance, hiding and protecting the raw edge of the fabric. As a second option, you could also use binding to cover the raw fabric edge, and if the person doing the work has an edge binding attachment, it will be easy to do both the seams and the edges with similar set-ups. I don't think either method will have a significant impact on light.
If you're the DIY type of person, here's a nice machine in your area. Out of the first 4 pages on CL, this is the one I'd buy if I were there and needed one. I actually have a machine just like it and I find that mine makes a beautiful stitch (I've got somewhere around a dozen sewing machines and a serger). It has everything you need to do basic work. I absolutely believe that you could learn to sew a straight line in less than an hour, which is all you really need to know for this project. My 9 year old is already making quilts, and that's a lot harder than what you're after.
Says it needs a belt, which will run about $10 at any sewing/vac store. Not a hard thing to find at all. Most likely, if you go into a store like Joanne's Fabric, they will be happy to show you how a sewing machine works and you'll be able to figure it out from there. I'd always be happy to give you a step by step to get started as well, so feel free to message me.
Philip of Dallas wrote: I'd like to make a very large (25' x 25') scrim/diffusion panel/silk for outdoor use. When I look at things like ripstop fabric, I can get it long enough, but maximum width is about 5'. I'd hate to have to sew all that together. I've looked at tents & canopies, but their fabric seems to be too opaque.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. . . .
Go to one of those "as seen on tv" websites. Buy one of those handheld sewing gadgets. They're like 25 bucks and it will work long enough to get your seams done. Probably only long enough...but hey if you buy one you get one free.
Philip of Dallas wrote: Thanks for everyone's input so far. Perhaps I should mention that I'm trying to do this inexpensively as I can. [Ahh . . . the black hole they call photography.]
Thomas Van Dyke wrote: Surplus Solid White Parachute Canopy...
Ideal for use over a pool...
I had thought of a parachute, but not sure how I could structurally frame the dome to span a pool. Can't seem to find an all-white rectangular parachute.
Thanks, Kevin. I may eventually try to find someone to sew it, as others have also mentioned. I was thinking I would have it only a few feet off the ground, so hopefully lift wouldn't be so much of a problem. Do you think edge reinforcements would still be necessary with ripstop nylon?
lift can be a problem even if the fabric is touching the ground. in fact, it can make it worse. you have to plan for something basically being a sail (in your case you are flying a spinnaker).
For $280.00 you can get a 20'x20' poly silk. do you have stands that will support that or are you going to build a frame? this company also makes frames up to 30'x30' with silks too. you can always rent..
You can also contact a sail maker to sew you some 1oz rip stop. most fabric is 54" wide on the bolt. seams wont hurt the light quality unless your shooting hi-gloss w/compound curves like a car, then your retouching the seams.
Since you have water between your models and the diffusion, you probably can get away with a much less refined diffusion material. A very open weave netting would scatter the light while letting the wind blow through. Maybe some extremely light curtains would work for you, and save you some sewing.
Jhono Bashian wrote: For $280.00 you can get a 20'x20' poly silk. do you have stands that will support that or are you going to build a frame? this company also makes frames up to 30'x30' with silks too. you can always rent..
You can also contact a sail maker to sew you some 1oz rip stop. most fabric is 54" wide on the bolt. seams wont hurt the light quality unless your shooting hi-gloss w/compound curves like a car, then your retouching the seams.
this is unlikely to be transparent enough to work as a scrim. The next post down really rocks! a great idea
descending chain wrote: Since you have water between your models and the diffusion, you probably can get away with a much less refined diffusion material. A very open weave netting would scatter the light while letting the wind blow through. Maybe some extremely light curtains would work for you, and save you some sewing.
Thanks for that idea of netting. Just need to find one big enough.
And if one is too transparent, I could use 2 for as cheap as they seem to be.
Philip of Dallas wrote: I'd like to make a very large (25' x 25') scrim/diffusion panel/silk for outdoor use. When I look at things like ripstop fabric, I can get it long enough, but maximum width is about 5'. I'd hate to have to sew all that together. I've looked at tents & canopies, but their fabric seems to be too opaque.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. . . .
With fabric of that size (length), I think your hassle isn't going to be joining/sewing it, it's going to be you've got a huge sail that any kind of wind will catch and either tear or fly away with. So you're going to need one helluva frame and a lot of weights to hold it down Are you better off with several smaller pieces of fabric/scrim set up side-by-side?
With fabric of that size (length), I think your hassle isn't going to be joining/sewing it, it's going to be you've got a huge sail that any kind of wind will catch and either tear or fly away with. So you're going to need one helluva frame and a lot of weights to hold it down Are you better off with several smaller pieces of fabric/scrim set up side-by-side?
Ed
This- it is an incredible feat to keep a scrim of that size oriented in the direction you wish without it blowing over. The frame itself will have to be very strong, as thats one hell of a sail. Expect to need at least 6 people to set this thing up...
| 
| 
| edu