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Model
Vinny
Posts: 93
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


I have posted in the critique forum several times lately, and have gotten some very helpful advice and critique, regarding my limited port and my lack of good poses, expressions, clothes, and everything else under the sun. While I appreciate all the harsh criticism (as I know it makes me work harder) , it brings to mind a deeper question that I have. In my area, it seems that all the really good photogs (the ones who's work I love) are fixated on female (especially nudes) I realize that modeling is largely a female dominated market, so I have no problem with that. But my question is how do I get one or more of these amazing photogs to even look my direction and try to work with me?
One person in the "critique" forum suggested that I hound great photogs until they work with me, but from past experiences, calling and emailing these guys seems to be counter-productive, as then I come across as a whiney novice who wants attention!
I'm a professional and a student of the game, and I'd love to be given a shot by some of the great photogs in my area, but I'm at a loss as to how to go about it. I've attempted to contact many of them, but they've been dismissive at best. They all want to work with the hot girls! LOL
Suggestions?
Mar 19 13 12:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Martin Schiff Photo
Posts: 3,200
Maitland, Florida, US


Pay them.

-- Martin
Mar 19 13 12:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carle Photography
Posts: 9,227
Oakland, California, US


1. Find photographers who specialize in shooting guys. Hire them.

2. You CAN offer to hire photographers who specialize in shooting nude women, but most of them will still not accept your job.

See #1.
Mar 19 13 12:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
nexiste plus
Posts: 7,075
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I dont think they're fixated on female models. I think there's just a greater availability of them.
Mar 19 13 12:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Vinny
Posts: 93
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


nexiste plus wrote:
I dont think they're fixated on female models. I think there's just a greater availability of them.

The reason I don't think it's an availability issue is because I've reached out to them and they don't seem interested unless there's money involved, but I know (have female model friends that have told me) that they PAY female models and/or will shoot them for free. They know I'm "available" lol

Mar 19 13 12:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carle Photography
Posts: 9,227
Oakland, California, US


nexiste plus wrote:
I dont think they're fixated on female models. I think there's just a greater availability of them.
Vinny  wrote:
The reason I don't think it's an availability issue is because I've reached out to them and they don't seem interested unless there's money involved, but I know (have female model friends that have told me) that they PAY female models and/or will shoot them for free. They know I'm "available" lol

Why would you walk into a pie shop and try to order a corn dog?
Go find the people who shoot men...

Mar 19 13 12:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Vinny
Posts: 93
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Death of Field wrote:

nexiste plus wrote:
I dont think they're fixated on female models. I think there's just a greater availability of them.

Why would you walk into a pie shop and try to order a corn dog?
Go find the people who shoot men...

Dully noted! smile

Mar 19 13 12:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
luv2bfitt
Posts: 725
Merrimack, New Hampshire, US


Try looking up some local art schools that teach photography. You may find instructors and/or students seeking subjects to hone their skills. No, it's not the same as a seasoned professional, but they will often work for trade, and usually you get at least a few decent images from any given shoot...
Mar 19 13 12:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4,716
Houston, Texas, US


Vinny  wrote:
The reason I don't think it's an availability issue is because I've reached out to them and they don't seem interested unless there's money involved, but I know (have female model friends that have told me) that they PAY female models and/or will shoot them for free. They know I'm "available" lol

As someone once said...  When the client says they don't have a budget..  It means.. they don't have a budget for YOU...

If these photographers (I'm assuming most are male) won't photograph you for free, you'll have to hire them.

That said.. You may ask yourself why you're modeling.
If it's for fun and you don't mind paying to support your hobby..then it's all good.

If you're looking to make money and you can't get someone to shoot you for free..?     Well you might want to look closer at what you can offer and what your local market is interested in.  I'd say most guys are at a definite disadvantage on sites like this.

Mar 19 13 12:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DavidCoward Photography
Posts: 629
Sandy Springs, Georgia, US


Speaking as a hobbyist who really has no interest in shooting males (nothing personal), I can tell you that I'd only shoot with a man if he paid me.
Mar 19 13 12:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DOUGLASFOTOS
Posts: 8,174
Los Angeles, California, US


Male Photographers are out there!!! And even on MM.

But Vinny...what is your Goal in Modeling?
Mar 19 13 12:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Vinny
Posts: 93
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


DOUGLASFOTOS wrote:
Male Photographers are out there!!! And even on MM.

But Vinny...what is your Goal in Modeling?

My goal is to someday be able to make a little money doing commercial print ad work. I know that i'm not cut out for runway and high fashion, but if you see ads in magazines, etc...(even on TV) they aren't all David Beckham look alikes...they are normal every-day people who are comfortable being themselves!

Mar 19 13 01:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nor-Cal Photography
Posts: 2,577
Walnut Creek, California, US


Look for MM photographers' portfolios that have male model images in them.  (Mine has three).  Those would be ones that you should contact.

But just one worthless opinion.   smile
Mar 19 13 04:28 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 6,016
New York, New York, US


Vinny  wrote:

My goal is to someday be able to make a little money doing commercial print ad work. I know that i'm not cut out for runway and high fashion, but if you see ads in magazines, etc...(even on TV) they aren't all David Beckham look alikes...they are normal every-day people who are comfortable being themselves!

That's going to be a tough nut to crack in Harrisburg, especially since you're a man, and Asian but then you've already figured that out.  Maybe the best bet would be to get as much satisfaction as possible from modeling as a hobby and not become over-concerned about being paid.

In the meantime, try Meetup.com and offer to do trade for group shoots and participate meaningfully, helpfully and positively in the forums.  It'll make people aware of you as a responsible, committed and fun person to work with.

You might also want to contact  via (very carefully worded) PM some of the female models who do the sort of work you're interested in, explaining your problem and suggesting that you might both benefit by offering photographers a male/female team for their commercial work, whether paid or trade.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Mar 20 13 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ronald N. Tan
Posts: 2,739
Los Angeles, California, US


Hi Vinny,

I believe I am one of those photographers who you could be soliciting assistance for real-world and industry related advice. This isn't a directed critique at you, rather, I want to help you see why you're experiencing adversity in your llama endeavors. When I approach clients I want to work for, telling them how much I love their products or whatever isn't going to cut it. I have to show them. I remember my English teacher in high school always lecturing our class, "SHOW! Not tell."

I am using myself as an example, show me that you're serious about llamaing by improving on your physique and expression. You look the same in all of your boring images. Right now, I would rather see genuinely smiling mirror pictures showing your improved musculature than the current snapshots you have.

Since you're in Pennsylvania and not in the middle of nowhere middle United States, you may have to fly into NYC to hire a fashion photographer who SPECIALIZES in the male gender or unisex fashion photographers who does great work with both genders.

Think and reflect on my words for a moment. Consider taking a break to improve on your physique, posing, and facial expression. Use men's magazines like GQ or similar premium quality magazine. Check out fashion blogs are the aimed at male llamaing: The Fashionisto is highly regarded and well-respected. There's also OhLaLaMag.com.

Study the photography. Study the fashion style.

Good luck and do what ever makes you happy.

Yours sincerely,

http://ronaldnztan.com/email-signature/KOKEN-LOGO-LIGHT-01.png

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Vinny  wrote:
I have posted in the critique forum several times lately, and have gotten some very helpful advice and critique, regarding my limited port and my lack of good poses, expressions, clothes, and everything else under the sun. While I appreciate all the harsh criticism (as I know it makes me work harder) , it brings to mind a deeper question that I have. In my area, it seems that all the really good photogs (the ones who's work I love) are fixated on female (especially nudes) I realize that llamaing is largely a female dominated market, so I have no problem with that. But my question is how do I get one or more of these amazing photogs to even look my direction and try to work with me?
One person in the "critique" forum suggested that I hound great photogs until they work with me, but from past experiences, calling and emailing these guys seems to be counter-productive, as then I come across as a whiney novice who wants attention!
I'm a professional and a student of the game, and I'd love to be given a shot by some of the great photogs in my area, but I'm at a loss as to how to go about it. I've attempted to contact many of them, but they've been dismissive at best. They all want to work with the hot girls! LOL
Suggestions?

Mar 22 13 11:21 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,880
Detroit, Michigan, US


You are right, a lot of male photographers in particular do not want to shoot male models. The only exception might be if you are posing with a female model.

However, I think you can be a model. You just have to find your market. Are there any other male models in your area? Try to figure out who they are shooting with and contact those people. Look for photographers who do have shots of guys or couples at least, in their portfolios and contact them. If you are not seeing any of those, you may be in a crappy area.

And being in a crappy area sucks and I definitely know all about that. Detroit is a big city, but the paying shoots for an art nude model with no interest in intense fetish or more adult work is pretty slim. I ended up just learning to shoot myself.

One idea that you might look into are group shoots. They might have a handful of female models, but having a guy to do couples work or just to practice on might work out. They might not set aside studio time or whatnot, but if you are already there, they might take a few shots.

Look for female photographers too. Just keep in mind that male models unfortunately have a reputation for hitting on the ladies (models and photographers) so keep it professional and keep that in mind.

That is just a bit of random brainstorming on my end. I know there is probably a lot more I have not thought of, but maybe that will spark some ideas ^_^
Mar 22 13 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Random One
Posts: 35
Canton, Michigan, US


It really seems that only male photographers generally want to shoot male nudes, at least from what I've seen on here and my own experience
Mar 24 13 07:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
M A U I
Posts: 1,587
Harare, Harare, Zimbabwe


Most of the photographers on this site are gung-ho on chicks, especially the naked ones. It's no secret.
Mar 24 13 08:03 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,439
Muncie, Indiana, US


I hate to be harsh but you are only 5' 7". Unless you are willing to do nudes you are not going to get much work, paid or not. I agree with you having to pay photographers to get a better portfolio.
Mar 24 13 08:09 am  Link  Quote 
Model
M A U I
Posts: 1,587
Harare, Harare, Zimbabwe


Yeah, You're also 5'7. Shorter than even the female model's standard.
Mar 24 13 08:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,769
Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain


Some of the responses here are so ridiculous to your questions...

Real photographers rarely make a distinction between shooting female, male whatever. An interesting subject is all that matters.

Just take a look at the majority of male photographer's portfolios on here: Filled with women, scantily dressed. Their friends lists are mainly female "models" and very little in the way of makeup artists, stylists, designers etc.

That right there should tell you all you need to know about your particular predicament. Most here aren't interested in you, they want half naked girls. The very fact that one poster stated that "he would only shoot a male model if they paid" says it all...

Don't chase photographers like that. Find one in and around your area that is interested in creating the kind of images you want.
Mar 24 13 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Vinny
Posts: 93
Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, US


Leighthenubian wrote:
Some of the responses here are so ridiculous to your questions...

Real photographers rarely make a distinction between shooting female, male whatever. An interesting subject is all that matters.

Just take a look at the majority of male photographer's portfolios on here: Filled with women, scantily dressed. Their friends lists are mainly female "models" and very little in the way of makeup artists, stylists, designers etc.

That right there should tell you all you need to know about your particular predicament. Most here aren't interested in you, they want half naked girls. The very fact that one poster stated that "he would only shoot a male model if they paid" says it all...

Don't chase photographers like that. Find one in and around your area that is interested in creating the kind of images you want.

In my opinion, you're one of the few on this site that seem to "get it" Most of the other responses, told me nothing more than what I've already heard...how my expression, poses, etc suck! While it's ok to continue to hear that, my question was how to obtain better expression, poses, etc with good photogs who know what they are doing and geniunely want to help me. There are female models who have awful pics, cell phone pics, terrible poses and expressions...and male photogs are bending over backwards, leaving tons of messages on their sites...begging to work with them...but someone like me, who also has awful poses and expression...the photogs say I need to pay and fly to a big city, etc...when I have lots of great photogs within an hour of me who seem to not be interested, for whatever reason.
When you say " Real photographers rarely make a distinction between shooting female, male whatever. An interesting subject is all that matters." I say Amen! those are my thoughts exactly.

Mar 25 13 05:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Thomas Van Dyke
Posts: 1,490
Washington, District of Columbia, US


Leighthenubian wrote:
...Real photographers rarely make a distinction between shooting female, male whatever. An interesting subject is all that matters...

Vinny Leighthenubian actually has put this issue into it's appropriate perspective, albeit I would rather use the category of "Commercial" rather than "Real" 

Please keep in mind that Mayhem is primarily a hobbyist site... however there are indeed some amazing commercial shooters aboard also... which keeps me coming back smile   also aboard are some absolutely amazing hobbyist, but this is exception, not the rule.

First and foremost, if you want to model commercially you simply have to be in a commercial market... have you considered relocating to NYC? 

While I shoot male talent regularly, I do not actually find your stat's to be of enough merit to do creative testing... unless you are a fantastic gymnast, dancer (ballet etc.) or celebrity i.e. commands some degree of public fascination your imagery might not attract the attention of agency reps... Why is this important?  Commercial photographers who shoot fashion want to collaborate with emerging talent that have a real and compelling chance of being signed... it's only natural, Darwinian section is brutal, lens persons do not have time to invest on talent that will not serve any viable function for networking within the industry...  Please try to get your head around this... time is precious, seriously precious... 

best advice?  seek out the top wedding shooters in your market... they are commercial photographers who excel at male portraiture otherwise they would not be competitive in the marketplace... knowing how to render a groom and his groomsman is a craft and art that demands considerable tenure and skill...

What male talent catches my attention? Stat's of 6' 0" weight 145lbs with a well toned physique and a deep repertoire... ideal fashion smile

Here is an example of a talent I did a creative test with... He has deep tenure as a professional dancer with Disney and is currently in NYC...  A make-up artist collaborated on this session (airbrushed talent with TEMPTU S/B)

http://www.restonstudio.com/gallery/Fgallery22-1.jpg

once again, to work in a commercial arena you have to be in a commercial market...

hope this helps...

Mar 25 13 06:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JonPhoto
Posts: 701
Robertsdale, Alabama, US


Vinny  wrote:
In my opinion, you're one of the few on this site that seem to "get it" Most of the other responses, told me nothing more than what I've already heard...how my expression, poses, etc suck! While it's ok to continue to hear that, my question was how to obtain better expression, poses, etc with good photogs who know what they are doing and geniunely want to help me. There are female models who have awful pics, cell phone pics, terrible poses and expressions...and male photogs are bending over backwards, leaving tons of messages on their sites...begging to work with them...but someone like me, who also has awful poses and expression...the photogs say I need to pay and fly to a big city, etc...when I have lots of great photogs within an hour of me who seem to not be interested, for whatever reason.
When you say " Real photographers rarely make a distinction between shooting female, male whatever. An interesting subject is all that matters." I say Amen! those are my thoughts exactly.

Photographers shoot what inspires them. For some its landscapes, for some its wildlife, for some its women. If I'm doing something for fun or free, I want to shoot what inspires me or can help me in my career. You are not going to win too many photographers over by making statements like real photographers should shoot me just because.

If the goal is to make money, go to the nearest talent agency and get their opinion about you. If they feel you can make it, they will invest in you. If not, invest in yourself and pay someone.

Mar 25 13 06:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DOUGLASFOTOS
Posts: 8,174
Los Angeles, California, US


JonPhoto wrote:

Photographers shoot what inspires them. For some its landscapes, for some its wildlife, for some its women. If I'm doing something for fun or free, I want to shoot what inspires me or can help me in my career. You are not going to win too many photographers over by making statements like real photographers should shoot me just because.

If the goal is to make money, go to the nearest talent agency and get their opinion about you. If they feel you can make it, they will invest in you. If not, invest in yourself and pay someone.

This...!00% all day long....If the vision is not in my head..the camera stays in the bag!

Mar 25 13 06:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,527
Atlanta, Georgia, US


I don't know about everyone else but I shoot clothes, accessories, hair, teeth, makeup, etc - sometimes its on a man and sometimes a woman smile

Stop looking at the glamour, nude, and art photographers and find a commercial one in your area.  That is the  biggest challenge in the middle of PA
Mar 25 13 06:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,690
Imperial, California, US


nexiste plus wrote:
I dont think they're fixated on female models. I think there's just a greater availability of them.

No, I'm pretty sure that I'm fixated on female models!!8-)

Mar 25 13 06:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,769
Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain


George Ruge wrote:
No, I'm pretty sure that I'm fixated on female llamas!!8-)

LMAO...honesty is good!

Mar 25 13 07:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,769
Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain


Vinny  wrote:
In my opinion, you're one of the few on this site that seem to "get it" Most of the other responses, told me nothing more than what I've already heard...how my expression, poses, etc suck! While it's ok to continue to hear that, my question was how to obtain better expression, poses, etc with good photogs who know what they are doing and geniunely want to help me. There are female llamas who have awful pics, cell phone pics, terrible poses and expressions...and male photogs are bending over backwards, leaving tons of messages on their sites...begging to work with them...but someone like me, who also has awful poses and expression...the photogs say I need to pay and fly to a big city, etc...when I have lots of great photogs within an hour of me who seem to not be interested, for whatever reason.
When you say " Real photographers rarely make a distinction between shooting female, male whatever. An interesting subject is all that matters." I say Amen! those are my thoughts exactly.

Well like I said...look at the source of those comments. Unless your prepared to strip half naked, bend over and arch your back so the average MM photographers can aim their zooms up your rusty sheriff's badge...you need broaden your search for suitable TF opportunities. Even then you would have to change genders.

As someone else mentioned, a good source of photographers that fit your needs would be standard portrait, wedding

Mar 25 13 07:29 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rose Valentina
Posts: 59
London, England, United Kingdom


Have you considered taking self-portraits? Good way for you to work on poses and different expressions. That's what I do and it's also been a great way to network with people that like my style and want to photograph me. I'd photograph you if you were nearer! smile
Mar 25 13 07:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A K
Posts: 181
Charleston, South Carolina, US


Maybe it is something you can accomplish offline. Not having met you, I'll assume you're a charming fellow. If you introduced yourself to a photographer in person, they might be more interested in working with you.
Mar 25 13 08:19 am  Link  Quote 
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