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Model
Axioma
Posts: 6,776
Gent, East Flanders, Belgium


Jorge Kreimer wrote:

*Clears throat*

All arts, be it painting, sculpture, music, film, etc. are about engaging the recipient, be it a viewer or listener. Let's call the recipient a viewer for now, since we are dealing with photography. What I mean by engagement is that the viewer will see him or herself reflected in the work of art in some way. All good art is but a mirror, as well as a stone in the shoe: the viewer is not left indifferent. Something must be communicated, and that something must be truthful.

Now, in photography you are dealing with a capture of a subject or an object. The subject is human, the object is not. When the photographer captures truth from a model, the model is the subject of the photo. When truth is not captured (as in "look sexy" as opposed to a genuine expression of sexuality, for example) the model ceases to be a subject, and is relegated to the role of simply an object within the frame. A subject is engaging, an object is not.

Compare a painting of a tree by Van Gogh, and a simply capable painter (and mediocrity here has nothing to do with mastering the technique or not. A mediocre painter may or may not have good technique. An artist creates his own technique.). The not so good painter paints a tree. Van Gogh paints a self portrait. You can see his personality, his grief, his anguish, and his sadness. We even see this in his signature, which is a simple and melancholic "Vincent". Van Gogh makes a tree engaging to the viewer. The viewer can recognize himself in this tree and sees himself reflected in the personality of "Vincent".

Same goes with a good photograph. Take a Helmut Newton, for example and the icy sexuality that prevails in his work. His work is distinguishable from any other photographer, especially a lesser one (and I've seen many parodies of his work here, I dare not call them imitations). He captures something truthful about himself, by creating an illusion of psychology in the model, and by lighting and composition.

So basically it comes down to this: Truth = Engaging. Subject (as opposed to object) = engaging.

Check "Ways of Seeing" by John Berger. Here's the link to a pdf: http://engl101-f12-lombardy.wikispaces. … Seeing.pdf

Critical reading for anyone involved in the visual arts.

Hope this makes sense.

Regarding the photo you linked to. What do you think?

I love this way of looking at it, Jorge - beautiful vision. But not every photographer is interested in making art and that doesn't mean that their images have no right of existence. But I guess you're absolutely right, that the images with most impact are the ones with most meaning and honesty in them. You mentioned Neil, when I speak with him that's the way he sees it too I believe. Can't be a coincidence that you have an appreciation for him and that you two are both great photographers.

About the linked one... I am subjective but I believe yes, it is 'honest'. Just not sure about interesting or a mirror.

Mar 25 13 10:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Axioma wrote:
I love this way of looking at it, Jorge - beautiful vision. But not every photographer is interested in making art and that doesn't mean that their images have no right of existence. But I guess you're absolutely right, that the images with most impact are the ones with most meaning and honesty in them. You mentioned Neil, when I speak with him that's the way he sees it too I believe. Can't be a coincidence that you have an appreciation for him and that you two are both great photographers.

About the linked one... I am subjective but I believe yes, it is 'honest'. Just not sure about interesting or a mirror.

Thank you, but I never said that non-art has not a right to exist.

Also, Neil is a much better technician than I am. I would love to be a fly on the wall during one of his shoots. I could learn a lot from him.

Mar 25 13 10:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5,409
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US


Avatar
Mar 25 13 12:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Dan K Photography wrote:
Avatar

Technically well executed? Yes.

Does it blow me away? No.

Mar 25 13 12:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5,409
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US


Jorge Kreimer wrote:

Technically well executed? Yes.

Does it blow me away? No.

http://beautyxpose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/huff-and-puff.gif

Mar 25 13 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Dan K Photography wrote:

http://beautyxpose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/huff-and-puff.gif

Cute! smile

Mar 25 13 01:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alexey VS
Posts: 256
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Reminds me of all those dating profiles by silly girls under 30 telling guys to impress them. Would shooting you in the kneecap do the trick...
Mar 25 13 01:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Alexey Sky wrote:
Reminds me of all those dating profiles by silly girls under 30 telling guys to impress them. Would shooting you in the kneecap do the trick...

Nope.

Mar 25 13 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alexey VS
Posts: 256
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Good answer.
Mar 25 13 01:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Joseph William
Posts: 2,002
Chicago, Illinois, US


I am thinking no... but I will try anyway.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120726/15/5011c2b0e2b6a_m.jpg
Mar 25 13 01:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
May_Bee
Posts: 202
Vienna, Wien, Austria


Mar 25 13 02:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPV Photo
Posts: 768
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Mar 25 13 02:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Tirado Photography
Posts: 4,230
New York, New York, US


Maybe? slightly?

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120915/21/50555ace0ed70_m.jpg
Mar 25 13 05:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Sorry, but I'm extremely busy today. I'll be back tomorrow.
Mar 26 13 05:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
TDSImages
Posts: 819
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


Jorge Kreimer wrote:

Just your run of the mill glamour shot. Nothing impressive, and overly Photoshopped. Lighting is ok, model is ok, that's about it.

I love honest and credible threads like this.  Just when I think I'm starting to make strides in my photography, I am brought back down to earth with the realization that I have so much more to learn.  Thanks for opening my eyes Jorge.

Mar 26 13 05:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rik Williams
Posts: 3,362
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Give me the low down Jorge


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130304/03/513481161bbc6.jpg
Mar 26 13 05:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
I Ference Photography
Posts: 1,152
Rochester, New York, US


Mar 26 13 12:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Summersbreeze
Posts: 6
Virginia Beach, Virginia, US


Mar 26 13 12:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 5,376
San Diego, California, US


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/070117/01/45adc59b07423_m.jpg
Mar 26 13 01:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sven Lori
Posts: 269
Brussels, Brussels, Belgium


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121202/09/50bb8ed138ee6.jpg

What do u think?
Mar 26 13 02:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Joseph William  wrote:
I am thinking no... but I will try anyway.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120726/15/5011c2b0e2b6a_m.jpg

It's a good glamour/beach shot, but I'm not too crazy about the filters you used.

Sorry but not impressed.

Mar 27 13 08:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


You have a great look, and I would personally love to work with you, but I'm not quite impressed by the photo. I'm sure you can do much better. smile

Mar 27 13 08:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Technically well executed. Very nice photo, but not impressive.

Mar 27 13 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Paul Tirado Photography wrote:
Maybe? slightly?

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120915/21/50555ace0ed70_m.jpg

Paul, It's hard for me to criticize you, since you have always been very kind to me.
I'm personally not too partial to dance photos to begin with. The photo is technically well executed, there's no doubt about that. I do have problems with the dance theme with the city background. It's a weird context for me for this shot. Also, the title is misleading since there is no fashion in this image.

I am impressed by this one though. I like the simple execution, the engaging model, make up and hair, and even though the dress doesn't fit her too well, interesting styling regarding the choice of colors. Very nice fashion shot.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120722/19/500cb9ed1aa2e.jpg

Mar 27 13 08:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Rik Williams wrote:
Give me the low down Jorge


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130304/03/513481161bbc6.jpg

Good comercial shot. Simple and to the point, but not quite impressive.

Mar 27 13 08:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Hmm, dancing nude. Not crazy about your choices in filters, no detail in the blacks, not really engaged by the model.

I'm very sorry, but not impressed.

Mar 27 13 08:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Looks like a snapshot, sorry.

Mar 27 13 08:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lakeshore Photography
Posts: 171
Holland, Michigan, US


I'm game, let me know what you think.
Mar 27 13 08:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


ChiMo wrote:
http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/070117/01/45adc59b07423_m.jpg

Indeed! Who the f*ck cares?

Mar 27 13 08:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121202/09/50bb8ed138ee6.jpg
Very atmospheric, a sense of impending violence, gritty, and well executed.
I like how expressive the hands are, in the sense that they can almost replace the unseen facial expression.

Almost there, but a je ne sais quoi is missing, very hard to pin point; or perhaps it's too theatrical for my taste.

Very close but not quite there. Sorry.
Mar 27 13 08:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Lakeshore Photography wrote:
I'm game, let me know what you think.

I'll be happy to comply, but please post a photo.

Mar 27 13 08:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lakeshore Photography
Posts: 171
Holland, Michigan, US


Jorge Kreimer wrote:

I'll be happy to comply, but please post a photo.

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121029/22/508f674cc7729_m.jpg

Mar 27 13 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,838
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Mar 27 13 08:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,955
Albany, New York, US


Mar 27 13 08:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


You created a very nice shape, but I would have liked a more engaging expression.

Sorry but not impressed.

Mar 27 13 09:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jorge Kreimer
Posts: 2,273
Los Angeles, California, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
Whatcha think of this one?

+18 http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/31178212

Sorry, but not impressed.

Mar 27 13 09:11 am  Link  Quote 
Model
brown-eyes
Posts: 403
Chino, California, US


I love how your arnt sugar coating anything. I hope I can impress you with this. I happen to think its my best photo in my port.


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/071007/21/47098cb5a84d3.jpg
Mar 27 13 10:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Terrell Gates
Posts: 1,042
Santa Fe, New Mexico, US


Whatcha think?

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120513/13/4fb01aafe9e01.jpg
Mar 27 13 10:29 am  Link  Quote 
Model
AndreasMb
Posts: 3,087
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Mar 27 13 10:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rik Williams
Posts: 3,362
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Jorge Kreimer wrote:

Good comercial shot. Simple and to the point, but not quite impressive.

My goodness you're a hard man to please Jeorge... I like that.
I'll just have to keep pushing things harder.
Cheers mate smile

Mar 27 13 10:47 am  Link  Quote 
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