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first123
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US


I have worked with strippers, I have worked with Lap dancers.
I pretty much draw the line at Fetish and Porn girls--cause frankly--none of the those girls ever consider shooting TFP.

If a person is sincere and takes a good photo, I'm happy to work with them.

If not accepting
Financial Domination"  and girl's who "fuck themselves with the shoes guys send to them" makes me an outcast on MM.  I worry about MM.

BTW, Do you know how much that kind of  lifestyle ages women..?

About two three years of that stuff, and the girls are just burnt--it shows on their face and in their eyes.
Mar 30 13 01:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Tracii Taylor
Posts: 2,176
Bordentown, New Jersey, US


Leone P wrote:
Hey all!

So i have this fan who keeps messaging me asking if i would ever use a fan. I said i would never use a fan and he repled that it as a shame.
I asked him why he would ask me such a question and he replied that he would like to spend money on me etc.

What is the deal with this sort of thing?

*Edit- It seems as though he wants me to demand that he spend money on me you know? Like a dominating role.*

If you decide you're not interested, send him my way.  I'll do it.

Mar 30 13 01:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Heather LeStabbityDeath
Posts: 22,608
Des Moines, Iowa, US


New Art Photo wrote:
I have worked with strippers, I have worked with Lap dancers.
I pretty much draw the line at Fetish and Porn girls--cause frankly--none of the those girls ever consider shooting TFP.

If a person is sincere and takes a good photo, I'm happy to work with them.

If not accepting
Financial Domination"  and girl's who "fuck themselves with the shoes guys send to them" makes me an outcast on MM.  I worry about MM.

BTW, Do you know how much that kind of  lifestyle ages women..?

About two three years of that stuff, and the girls are just burnt--it shows on their face and in their eyes.

I'm not saying that not liking financial domination makes you an outcast, I'm saying calling a model a whore for accepting money or gifts from fans makes you a hypocritical jerk who isn't going to get very far on this website.

Mar 30 13 01:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US


I also don't like Tattoos, Drugs users, or Girls who pose with Snakes or Guns.

If that destroys me on MM, I guess I'll have to live with it.
Mar 30 13 01:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 18,082
Orlando, Florida, US


Ignorant narrow minded people never cease to amaze me by the stupidity they write.

I have no idea how this thread became from accepting gifts from fans to you must be a whore if you accept items from strangers.
Mar 30 13 03:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Rachel-Elise  wrote:

This isn't true--though, you do say you're a bit sheltered, so I'm not upset with you. wink

I've had fans since I got involved in pageantry back in 2004. Pageants are actually quite the prudish hobby--you have to be all "save the whales" or "help the children" or some such, can't appear in a brazilian bikini, etc. Additionally, I've never done anything that can be remotely construed as fetish, unless you count being a ballerina (yeah, it's a thing), and I've also never done nudes or topless shots. I don't think I've even published an implied, to tell the truth (not that I have a problem with that).

Male fans--strange and otherwise--come in all shapes and sizes, and you don't have to be doing anything other than "save the whales" to attract some of them. I've been wondering if I should open an Amazon wishlist, actually, and domination isn't even my thing. tongue

Yes, I only used those two examples because those seem to be the standard "male fan/female gets gifts" setup where the company provides a model with a page that could include an Amazon Wishlist and it's all very impersonal and formulaic. There is very little personal interaction in those instances, other than a general chat room or messaging system. Plus, the male fans are "built-in" so to speak (meaning the model doesn't really need to personally reach out to anyone and thus expose herself or her information).

I'm sure the same setup could exist if you set up a personal website. I didn't use that as an example because it would seem harder to gain a following because you're doing you own marketing to get those fans. That would also seem more personal to me because the fans might be people you actually know...not just random guys who stumbled across webcamhottiesbabehoneys.com.

Mar 30 13 03:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


New Art Photo wrote:
I have worked with strippers, I have worked with Lap dancers.
I pretty much draw the line at Fetish and Porn girls--cause frankly--none of the those girls ever consider shooting TFP.

If a person is sincere and takes a good photo, I'm happy to work with them.

If not accepting
Financial Domination"  and girl's who "fuck themselves with the shoes guys send to them" makes me an outcast on MM.  I worry about MM.

BTW, Do you know how much that kind of  lifestyle ages women..?

About two three years of that stuff, and the girls are just burnt--it shows on their face and in their eyes.

And ignorance and narrow-mindedness shows just as easily.

It's not your personal dislike for any lifestyle that makes you an outcast, everyone has their personal tastes. It's just the pure hypocrisy of your statement.

You have no problem with strippers or "lap dancers" because you can get something you want from them. But you "draw the line" at Fetish/Porn because they don't do TF*.

You're judging and condemning the lifestyle of someone because they are using men to get what they want. But you're admittedly doing the exact same thing with those "strippers and lap dancers."

Do you really not see the hypocrisy of that statement?

Mar 30 13 03:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chris Teel
Posts: 482
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


One of my models - from a few years back, hes not in my current portfolio so dont look tongue - was offered $300 for a ziploc baggy of the model's toe nail clippings gathered over time. 

Growing out your toe nails = a good way to make a little side money!
Mar 30 13 04:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,688
Imperial, California, US


Guys give strippers gifts all of the time!!
Mar 30 13 04:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US


Michael Pandolfo wrote:

And ignorance and narrow-mindedness shows just as easily.

It's not your personal dislike for any lifestyle that makes you an outcast, everyone has their personal tastes. It's just the pure hypocrisy of your statement.

You have no problem with strippers or "lap dancers" because you can get something you want from them. But you "draw the line" at Fetish/Porn because they don't do TF*.

You're judging and condemning the lifestyle of someone because they are using men to get what they want. But you're admittedly doing the exact same thing with those "strippers and lap dancers."

Do you really not see the hypocrisy of that statement?

I make a fair trade with the women I work with. They pose, in return, they get good photos.

PS I never used the word "Whore and model in the same sentence".
In fact, I never used the word whore in any of my comments.
It's not my job to "condemn" people.  But I'm not going to say I respect "Financial Domination. I'm not part of the Adult Industry--that's the other side of the hill. I work with actual actresses.

Mar 30 13 05:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JadeDRed
Posts: 5,375
London, England, United Kingdom


New Art Photo wrote:
----That's sounds about right. All men pay something for female attention.
It's called dating.  But taking money from men you have no respect for--

I have respect for all human beings, i consider it a basic level of human decency.

And no, when i date men don't pay me for my attention.

Also i've never been a camgirl, but if i was and i did a damn good job of it i would take great pride it.

Mar 30 13 05:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 18,082
Orlando, Florida, US


New Art Photo wrote:
I make a fair trade with the women I work with. They pose, in return, they get good photos.

PS I never used the word "Whore and model in the same sentence".
In fact, I never used the word whore in any of my comments.
It's not my job to "condemn" people.  But I'm not going to say I respect "Financial Domination. I'm not part of the Adult Industry--that's the other side of the hill. I work with actual actresses.

You said it was prostitution (Which basically means whore) in your very first post do you need me to quote that for you?

New Art Photo wrote:
I find it really bizarre that models are discussing taking money and presents from men they don't even know-- In  exchange for giving them some weird kind of attention.  It's basically low level prostitution.

There you go

Mar 30 13 10:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bgcfoto
Posts: 5,442
Largo, Florida, US


This entire thread reminds me why the internet is awesome.
Mar 30 13 10:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,006
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


This thread almost makes me want to give up modeling and go back to being a camgirl...almost
Mar 30 13 10:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


New Art Photo wrote:
Of course there are strings attached... the strings are your integrity as a person.
You're dealing with men with mental problems, and taking their money because they are trying to have a relationship with you. Really sleazy.

I think you may be projecting with that sweeping statement.

By your logic,  wouldn't all models be prostitutes and all photographers have mental problems.

Really!  Only on MM is everyone a predator!

Mar 31 13 04:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,279
Salem, Oregon, US


one of your fellow models (and a very agreeable forum member) in this very thread called it (the financial domination thing) cyber-prostitution. i don't think you speak for everyone.

"Prostitution is the business or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment."
(and now with the internet those services can be rendered online, unless you argue that it can't be prostitution unless it happens in person)

so based on my reading of that if you are fulfilling sexual desires of your fan in exchange for their gifts ...

personally i think prostitution should be legal and taxed to pay for schools but i don't know if that will ever happen.

i bought an item for a zivity model off her wishlist but it was a dog chew toy for a dog she had just adopted and was having trouble affording. i wasn't expecting anything in return. i wasn't hoping to be financially dominated (i don't have that fetish nor that kind of money).

in my experience if you get involved with strippers as a regular customer pretty much every conversation will involve the mention of some sum of money they need to pay for something (the implication being hopefully you will provide that sum). you can label it however you want. but it is what it is.

Heather LeStabbityDeath wrote:
I'm saying calling a model a whore for accepting money or gifts from fans makes you a hypocritical jerk who isn't going to get very far on this website.

Mar 31 13 08:37 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,118
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


ontherocks wrote:
one of your fellow models (and a very agreeable forum member) in this very thread called it (the financial domination thing) cyber-prostitution. i don't think you speak for everyone.

"Prostitution is the business or practice of providing sexual services to another person in return for payment."
(and now with the internet those services can be rendered online, unless you argue that it can't be prostitution unless it happens in person)

so based on my reading of that if you are fulfilling sexual desires of your fan in exchange for their gifts ...

personally i think prostitution should be legal and taxed to pay for schools but i don't know if that will ever happen.

i bought an item for a zivity model off her wishlist but it was a dog chew toy for a dog she had just adopted and was having trouble affording. i wasn't expecting anything in return. i wasn't hoping to be financially dominated (i don't have that fetish nor that kind of money).

in my experience if you get involved with strippers as a regular customer pretty much every conversation will involve the mention of some sum of money they need to pay for something (the implication being hopefully you will provide that sum). you can label it however you want. but it is what it is.


This assumes that all fans are into financial domination and you return some favor for them (talking to them, showing them pictures of you wearing/doing/etc with their gift, so on and so forth).

SOME fans, yes, that's their thing. Not all.

If someone writes me tomorrow and says "I think you're pretty, I want to buy you this pair of shoes" and all I say is "gee thanks!" And they do it, and I get my shoes, and we never speak again, have I prostituted myself? All I did was accept a gift, we did not exchange anything. If just simply accepting a gift for no good reason is being a prostitute then we all are, because we've all accepted something, big or small, in our lifetime for no other reason than someone was giving it away.


The fan in the OPs story...yes he was into financial domination, and it sexually gratified him to be told what to do with his money. You can call that prostitution all you want. But that fan is not representative of all fans, despite that sweeping generalization having been made.

Mar 31 13 10:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 16,722
El Segundo, California, US


ontherocks wrote:
so based on my reading of that if you are fulfilling sexual desires of your fan in exchange for their gifts ...

Perhaps. But the introduction of "fulfilling sexual desires" is a specific subset of a fan.

If a "fan" sends a llama a gift, and the llama sends, e.g. an autographed G-rated photo, is that fulfilling the sexual desires of the fan, or is it simply sending an autographed photo? How about if the fan gets off on the photo? As described above, the first is fine and dandy, but the second makes it prostitution--kind of ludicrous, isn't it?

ontherocks wrote:
i bought an item for a zivity llama off her wishlist but it was a dog chew toy for a dog she had just adopted and was having trouble affording. i wasn't expecting anything in return. i wasn't hoping to be financially dominated (i don't have that fetish nor that kind of money).

Same interpretation as above. Does the fact that you had neither an expectation nor desire for some sexual satisfaction from the llama you sent the gift to change anything for the llama herself if her behavior doesn't change?

I believe your arguments slid all the way down that slippery slope into la-la land.

Mar 31 13 09:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AngelicaDemonica
Posts: 81
Cornelius, Oregon, US


New Art Photo wrote:
I have worked with strippers, I have worked with Lap dancers.
I pretty much draw the line at Fetish and Porn girls--cause frankly--none of the those girls ever consider shooting TFP.

If a person is sincere and takes a good photo, I'm happy to work with them.

If not accepting
Financial Domination"  and girl's who "fuck themselves with the shoes guys send to them" makes me an outcast on MM.  I worry about MM.

BTW, Do you know how much that kind of  lifestyle ages women..?

About two three years of that stuff, and the girls are just burnt--it shows on their face and in their eyes.

As a BDSM and Fetish Model, I draw the line at TF work for a reason. If you stopped to speak to the women who do BDSM and Fetish, you would understand why we usually don't do TF work with new photographers. We come from a group that does 'niche' styles, most of us support ourselves off of this work. We also become accustomed to getting paid for our work, because of the kind of work we do.

I mean no slights on normal models, but bondage work is much harder then normal modeling. Furthermore, we become accustomed to getting paid if we are taking our clothes off. Bondage work requires longer, more rigorous and detailed posing, then most modeling jobs. We produce images that satisfy peoples sexual desires, does that make us a prostitute? No, that makes us someone providing a service to satisfy others in ways that most are refusing to provide.

The 'tone' of all your posts, through this entire thread, has been continuously condescending towards females who accept gifts, or even more recently... females who perform work where you can't 'get anything' from them.

Why do you feel such entitlement? You seem to ooze 'I'm right, you're wrong, listen to what I say'... The quoted post alone, screams that you feel you have the /right/ to basically say "I will only do TF, I shouldn't have to pay anyone"... Where does this sort of behavior or thought process come from?

Apr 02 13 02:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US


We produce images that satisfy peoples sexual desires, does that make us a prostitute? No, that makes us someone providing a service to satisfy others in ways that most are refusing to provide....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--So you're in the Sex trade. I have no particular problem with that. I don't generally work with models, I work with actresses--so I haven't had to pay anyone so far. I do think solicting presents from men you don't know, with an obvious sexual subtext is creepy-- and dangerous.

Apr 02 13 02:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Moon Pix Photography
Posts: 3,890
Syracuse, New York, US


Leone P wrote:
Hey all!

So i have this fan who keeps messaging me asking if i would ever use a fan. I said i would never use a fan and he repled that it as a shame.
I asked him why he would ask me such a question and he replied that he would like to spend money on me etc.

What is the deal with this sort of thing?

*Edit- It seems as though he wants me to demand that he spend money on me you know? Like a dominating role.*

Sometimes I wish I was a pretty female.

tongue

Apr 02 13 02:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


WOOOOOOOWWWW.
Apr 02 13 02:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AngelicaDemonica
Posts: 81
Cornelius, Oregon, US


New Art Photo wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--So you're in the Sex trade. I have no particular problem with that. I don't generally work with models, I work with actresses--so I haven't had to pay anyone so far. I do think solicting presents from men you don't know, with an obvious sexual subtext is creepy-- and dangerous.

You are twisting my words, as you have twisted the words of others. I do not in any way interact with the men who buy the pictures from the photographers I work with. I also do not offer sexual services to any of the photographers that I work with. It is purely professional, the work that I do. Being in the sex trade means that you offer yourself in a sexual way, to another person... in exchange for some form of compensation.

I do none of this, I simply offer beautiful pictures, that provide enjoyment for others.

I could easily say that any model is in the sex trade, because at any point our pictures could be masturbated too. That someone could find sexual enjoyment in the most simple of pictures.

My stance is this, if someone is asking a woman/man to remove their clothing for pictures... they should be compensated with more than just a few pictures. Especially considering most photographers who take those pictures, are making a lot of money off of them. Why is is so hard to offer the model a little compensation?

Apr 02 13 02:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US


I have absolutely no problem with models getting paid. If I was in in the Fashion or Fetish business, I would pay models.

This thread was about the thing called Financial Domination.
Personally, my greatest objection is that I think it's quite a dangerous game for a young women to play-- all you need is one  person to start stalking you, and
things could go bad very quickly.  I believe Law enforcement refers to this as a
"High Risk Lifestyle."

That's all I have to say on the subject.
Apr 02 13 03:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AngelicaDemonica
Posts: 81
Cornelius, Oregon, US


New Art Photo wrote:
I have absolutely no problem with models getting paid. If I was in in the Fashion or Fetish business, I would pay models.

This thread was about the thing called Financial Domination.
Personally, my greatest objection is that I think it's quite a dangerous game for a young women to play-- all you need is one  person to start stalking you, and
things could go bad very quickly.  I believe Law enforcement refers to this as a
"High Risk Lifestyle."

That's all I have to say on the subject.

Financial Domination is in no was a 'High Risk Lifestyle'. I'm also a Professional Domme, and I understand this part of the lifestyle quite well. Financial Domination requires no real life interactions. Most of the men/women who want this, want something simple. They want the woman/man to order them to buy things. They want to provide financially for the female/male, in exchange for being ordered to do so. It's as simple as that. No real life information has to be exchanged.

You seem to think you know what you are speaking of, but in reality you do not. Instead of thinking something is dangerous, how about you fully learn about the subject at hand, and how the people keep themselves safe, before you stick your foot in your mouth with judgmental statements?

Apr 02 13 03:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
deleted1deleted2
Posts: 11
Columbia, South Carolina, US


Interesting thread.  In a nutshell clarify motives as you would with anyone...fan, photog or modelthat approaches you and be safe.  I think gifts are fine and would certainly consider doing favors,  giving gifts or helping a model that I really liked and clicked with.  In fact have done so and it was enjoyable for both!  Taking a gift or help does not make you a ho necessarily.   Like anything else...if you get a bad vibe from someone move on.
Apr 02 13 08:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Heather LeStabbityDeath
Posts: 22,608
Des Moines, Iowa, US


New Art Photo wrote:
We produce images that satisfy peoples sexual desires, does that make us a prostitute? No, that makes us someone providing a service to satisfy others in ways that most are refusing to provide....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--So you're in the Sex trade. I have no particular problem with that. I don't generally work with models, I work with actresses--so I haven't had to pay anyone so far. I do think solicting presents from men you don't know, with an obvious sexual subtext is creepy-- and dangerous.

There's NOT an obvious sexual subtext though.
If someone sends me a book, and I send back a photo of me holding said book with a huge smile and a thumbs up, showing that I appreciate this book, and that is the agreement, there is not necessarily a sexual context.  Plus, realistically, dudes masturbate to the bra section of lane bryant catalogues. Does that make plus sized models in their flannel jammies and large bras whores, engaging in cirumcspect sex work? Absolutely not.   

If someone wants to send a model --male or female-- a gift because they are thankful that that person exists and is cool enough to post cool photos online, that is really fucking nice of them.

If that person has the time and money to frequently send a model gifts, and in exchange, would like some sort of time or service back, that becomes work, which is also cool.  It is not necessarily sex work, some people are just lonely, and want a way to connect with someone who is seen to be cooler or prettier or more worldly or more whatever than they are, and thus..."if I send you these things, will you send me a letter, an email, a photo of you, a photo of you interacting with the things I gave you", is not necessarily sexual. 

IF it is sexual, and the model and the person sending the gifts are comfortable with it, who cares? Strippers engage in all sorts of penetration free, sexual work, with their clients all the time. That does not make them whores.  Dominatrices and submissives are not whores.  Playboy models I'm sure receive gifts in exchange of them having naked photos on the internet, and they're still not whores.
Even if they literally are whores, why are you being such a jerk about it?


Besides, obviously, the fact that you are so fucking cool that you deserve all the things for free, and resent all these people that are implying that these same bitches who should be working for you FOR FREE, deserve something in exchange for their time or attention?



Furthermore, situations that law enforcement considers to be "high risk" are not actually as high risk as they are portrayed, you are much more likely, according to studies done by many respected institutions, to be stalked or raped by someone you know and trust than a stranger from the internet.  I am an alt, art, and fetish model. There are many photos of me naked online.  I have interacted online with many potential "creepers". 

I have accepted gifts on THIS website before, from friends, or possibly, fans, with no ill affects.

My laptop got broken a few years ago, and Engel and Glue, who I have yet to meet in person, joined forces to send me a new one, because they enjoyed my internet presence and would miss me if I couldn't be online at 3am for several months.  It was sent via amazon, to my fake name, I got it just fine, and they still haven't been weird, creepy, or demanding, they were just doing something nice for someone who's work and personality they respected.

In fact, in the SF2 forum of THIS WEBSITE, we had a secret santa exchange, in which we gave each other our real names and addresses and sent each other nice gifts for Christmas.  Thus far, no SF2 member who participated has complained of stalkers, nor has anyone suspiciously gone missing.

Apr 02 13 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
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