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Model
Francesca Lazzari
Posts: 237
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


I have found, after posting a recent thread, that many photographers on Model Mayhem will not shoot a model if she has 'i have mental health problems' stated on her bio.

I was wondering. Would you consider to shoot someone with a mental health problem if she posted it clearly on her bio?

I know that a lot of models, photographers and retouchers will have mental health problems BUT when it gets stated on her bio it suddenly changes?

Whats your thoughts?

PS. Please refrain from taking this issue out on ME. Its a question to YOU. It has nothing to do with my profile or anything else.

Thankyou, all. x
Mar 28 13 11:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,654
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Honestly no, any sign of drama (mental health, llama herders, weird demands) and I click next.  Just way too many choices to waste time with anything that could jeopardize a shoot that I have invested money into.
Mar 28 13 12:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C s p i n e
Posts: 3,924
Portland, Oregon, US


I thought all women were clinically insane.....

wink
Mar 28 13 12:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


Frann Lazzari wrote:
I have found, after posting a recent thread, that many photographers on Model Mayhem will not shoot a model if she has 'i have mental health problems' stated on her bio.

I was wondering. Would you consider to shoot someone with a mental health problem if she posted it clearly on her bio?

I know that a lot of models, photographers and retouchers will have mental health problems BUT when it gets stated on her bio it suddenly changes?

Whats your thoughts?

PS. Please refrain from taking this issue out on ME. Its a question to YOU. It has nothing to do with my profile or anything else.

Thankyou, all. x

I would certainly work with anyone who disclosed that they have mental health problems.  I do work with fellow Veterans with serious mental health problems every week.  Disclosing a mental health problem may be a bad idea with the way our society places bad stigmas on people, but I think things are changing for the better.

Mar 28 13 12:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


How would I ever be able to discern the "normal" models from the ones who had mental health issues? All the females I know (and I have 6 sisters) have mental health issues. Now, add to that a female's desire to be a model and...the likelihood of issues is magnified ten-fold.

Seriously, though, you've started multiple threads and every single one of them, including your bio, advertises that point. I'm not sure why you find it so relevant that you're belaboring the point constantly.

It's not that I would be averse to shooting a model who had mental health issues, it's that I would be averse to shooting a model who feels the need to put it on display and MAKE it an issue.
Mar 28 13 12:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


AJScalzitti wrote:
Honestly no, any sign of drama (mental health, escorts, weird demands) and I click next.  Just way too many choices to waste time with anything that could jeopardize a shoot that I have invested money into.

Some of the most creative and accomplished people in the art world have mental disorders.  Most of the time, you'll never even know.

Mar 28 13 12:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,933
Portland, Oregon, US


My concern would be when mental or physical issues are mentioned in a very ambiguous non-specific manner.

Simply saying I have mental illness or I have physical handicaps does not really do anything other than encourage photographers to quickly move to the next profile.

Saying something like "Note: I have anxiety issues, and it can be relevant to a shoot in the following ways..."

If you just leave things vague and up to people's imagination it will work against you.

If you are honest but make it clear that it is not a big deal, then it makes it a lot easier for it to not be a big deal.
Mar 28 13 12:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Meghan Hale
Posts: 335
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


"Mental Health Problems" is a big range.

I have clinical depression and it has NEVER effected me at a shoot. That counts as a mental health problem, but it doesn't interfere with my modeling. This is why I don't publicly state it before working with someone, or post it on my page. It's irrelevant to modeling.

However;

Maybe a model is schizophrenic and is likely to change personalities on set, and ruins the whole shoot. Or maybe she has extreme anger issues and will ruin equipment after you tell her you don't like her posing.

Mental health problems may effect the shoot, but also may not. Depending on the "problem".
Mar 28 13 12:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


Meghan Hale wrote:
"Mental Health Problems" is a big range.

I have clinical depression and it has NEVER effected me at a shoot. That counts as a mental health problem, but it doesn't interfere with my modeling. This is why I don't publicly state it before working with someone, or post it on my page. It's irrelevant to modeling.

However;

Maybe a model is schizophrenic and is likely to change personalities on set, and ruins the whole shoot. Or maybe she has extreme anger issues and will ruin equipment after you tell her you don't like her posing.

Mental health problems may effect the shoot, but also may not. Depending on the "problem".

Even in the case of schizophrenia, I'd work with someone but I have lots of experience dealing with people with severe mental illnesses.  It really just depends on how comfortable you are dealing with certain problems.  Most schizophrenics who are on the right medication and therapy routine would be no problem at all.

Mar 28 13 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JaneyGarnet
Posts: 85
Portland, Oregon, US


I think it's important to note that the majority of mentally ill people are only a danger to themselves, not to others.
Mar 28 13 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,230
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


That's not something I need to know unless its got the potential to ruin a shoot. I also don't need to know if you're single, if you like dogs, or have high cholesterol....unless its somehow going to screw up a shoot.

If you post personal info like that, that would otherwise have no bearing on the shoot, I'm going to assume you're telling me it because it will cause a problem, in which case I have no wish to work with you.
Mar 28 13 12:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


I'd also like to add that people with schizophrenia do not have multiple personalities that could change on set like mentioned above. That's the Hollywood version of schizophrenia.  People with multiple personalities generally fall under dissociative disorder...something completely different.
Mar 28 13 12:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,322
Salem, Oregon, US


are you able to shoot or not? if you are able to shoot then does it matter if you are crazy? why even mention it. likewise if you have kids. why mention it?

if there are things the photographer must know (like certain medical conditions where you need a nurse) then maybe discuss that privately with the ones who express interest.

and if you are a threat to yourself or others then seek help immediately.

i mean generic "you" since you said this wasn't about you but was more hypothetical.
Mar 28 13 12:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,654
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Will Snizek wrote:

Some of the most creative and accomplished people in the art world have mental disorders.  Most of the time, you'll never even know.

True, but I do this professionally and don't like risks.  Others may feel differently

Mar 28 13 12:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 7,096
New York, New York, US


Honestly Frann this is your third thread on why togs don't seem to want to work with you...Take the advice from the first and the second thread and move on. You seem to just want attention at this point. Are you bored?...
Mar 28 13 12:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Francesca Lazzari
Posts: 237
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


Meghan Hale wrote:
"Mental Health Problems" is a big range.

I have clinical depression and it has NEVER effected me at a shoot. That counts as a mental health problem, but it doesn't interfere with my modeling. This is why I don't publicly state it before working with someone, or post it on my page. It's irrelevant to modeling.

However;

Maybe a model is schizophrenic and is likely to change personalities on set, and ruins the whole shoot. Or maybe she has extreme anger issues and will ruin equipment after you tell her you don't like her posing.

Mental health problems may effect the shoot, but also may not. Depending on the "problem".

My point was just 'in general' :')

Thankyou.

Mar 28 13 12:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Christopher Hartman
Posts: 54,057
Buena Park, California, US


I think it would depend on what the mental problem is and whether or not I feel I am able to deal with it should it become an issue.
Mar 28 13 12:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Francesca Lazzari
Posts: 237
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


Marin Photography wrote:
Honestly Frann this is your third thread on why togs don't seem to want to work with you...Take the advice from the first and the second thread and move on. You seem to just want attention at this point. Are you bored?...

This isn't about why togs don't want to work with me.
Its a general question.

Isn't that what forums are for?

Mar 28 13 12:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 7,096
New York, New York, US


Frann Lazzari wrote:

This isn't about why togs don't want to work with me.
Its a general question.

Isn't that what forums are for?

Yes and it was addressed in the last thread...just saying. You can do as you like, not picking on you.....

Mar 28 13 12:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


I don't see a problem with this discussion thread she created.  I'm an advocate for mental health awareness.  Disclosure is pretty brave and shouldn't be looked down upon, but there will always be negative stigmas attached to disclosures that you have to deal with.  There's a consequence for every good and bad action.
Mar 28 13 12:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Tirado Photography
Posts: 4,229
New York, New York, US


Laura UnBound wrote:
That's not something I need to know unless its got the potential to ruin a shoot. I also don't need to know if you're single, if you like dogs, or have high cholesterol....unless its somehow going to screw up a shoot.

If you post personal info like that, that would otherwise have no bearing on the shoot, I'm going to assume you're telling me it because it will cause a problem, in which case I have no wish to work with you.

this

Mar 28 13 12:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


It's not always a case of "will not shoot" but it will certainly be a red flag for many.

As has been said, depression, bipolar, anxiety... these are all things that many people (including many creative people) suffer from and normally they don't affect a shoot once it has been scheduled. Therefore, they're not really something a person needs to include in their bio.

However, a predisposition to drama, paranoia, making up wild accusations, jumping off buildings, screaming, crying, smashing up equipment, sudden violence... these are the kind of things that photographers will tend to steer clear of and, to be honest, the kind of things that spring to mind at the mention of a vague and potentially all-encompassing term like 'mental health issues'.


Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
Mar 28 13 12:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Stormee
Posts: 2,463
San Antonio, Texas, US


Mar 28 13 12:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Francesca Lazzari
Posts: 237
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


Marin Photography wrote:

Yes and it was addressed in the last thread...just saying. You can do as you like, not picking on you.....

I also am a little bored. I'm ill today with flu sad

I felt like i needed to make a separate thread because of the fuss i had on the last one when it wasnt created just to discuss mental health :')

Mar 28 13 12:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 37,933
Portland, Oregon, US


Will Snizek wrote:
I don't see a problem with this discussion thread she created.  I'm an advocate for mental health awareness.  Disclosure is pretty brave and shouldn't be looked down upon, but there will always be negative stigmas attached to disclosures that you have to deal with.  There's a consequence for every good and bad action.

There is nothing wrong with the thread.

However, it should hopefully be fairly obvious and easy to understand that posting generic/vague things about mental or physical issues on a profile is going to scare people away.

IF someone feels they need to be honest and disclose things, it makes a lot more sense to be clear and precise so people know exactly what the potential issues are... instead of some ambiguous statement that serves as nothing more than a red flag, whether it has relevance or not.

Honest, clear communication is great, but being cryptic or requiring people to jump to conclusions is often not at all helpful.

Mar 28 13 12:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


DougBPhoto wrote:
There is nothing wrong with the thread.

However, it should hopefully be fairly obvious and easy to understand that posting generic/vague things about mental or physical issues on a profile is going to scare people away.

IF someone feels they need to be honest and disclose things, it makes a lot more sense to be clear and precise so people know exactly what the potential issues are... instead of some ambiguous statement that serves as nothing more than a red flag, whether it has relevance or not.

I completely agree.  Disclosure especially vague will scare people off..that's just a fact of society. Some people will have no problem with it and some will.

Mar 28 13 12:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JaneyGarnet
Posts: 85
Portland, Oregon, US


Appropriate disclosure is a very complex issue, and I think it would be great if we could have an honest and respectful exploration of it in some thread, if not this one.
Mar 28 13 12:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


C s p i n e wrote:
I thought all women were clinically insane.....

wink

big_smile !!

Mar 28 13 01:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,322
Salem, Oregon, US


there have been a bunch of threads from models who have kids and disclosed that in their profile and now can't get photographers to shoot with them. maybe it's just a matter of timing. maybe the disclosure is better once someone has expressed an interest and might be more open to accommodating any special needs the model might have whether it's kids or health?

Will Snizek wrote:
I don't see a problem with this discussion thread she created.  I'm an advocate for mental health awareness.  Disclosure is pretty brave and shouldn't be looked down upon, but there will always be negative stigmas attached to disclosures that you have to deal with.  There's a consequence for every good and bad action.

Mar 28 13 01:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


Mental Health Issues?

Are we talking maybe multiple personality disorder, in which case it would make for an interesting series of shoots.

Otherwise,

Why even put that you have mental issues in your bio, unless it will directly affect your being a reliable or dependable model. And if it will cause issues with your modeling then you may wish to rethink a modeling career in the first place.

Just my thoughts.
Mar 28 13 01:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Francesca Lazzari
Posts: 237
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


JOEL McDONALD wrote:
Mental Health Issues?

Are we talking maybe multiple personality disorder, in which case it would make for an interesting series of shoots.

Otherwise,

Why even put that you have mental issues in your bio, unless it will directly affect your being a reliable or dependable model. And if it will cause issues with your modeling then you may wish to rethink a modeling career in the first place.

Just my thoughts.

Perhaps its not a career in the first place?

Mar 28 13 01:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
New Art Photo
Posts: 701
Los Angeles, California, US


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
It's not always a case of "will not shoot" but it will certainly be a red flag for many.

As has been said, depression, bipolar, anxiety... these are all things that many people (including many creative people) suffer from and normally they don't affect a shoot once it has been scheduled. Therefore, they're not really something a person needs to include in their bio.

However, a predisposition to drama, paranoia, making up wild accusations, jumping off buildings, screaming, crying, smashing up equipment, sudden violence... these are the kind of things that photographers will tend to steer clear of and, to be honest, the kind of things that spring to mind at the mention of a vague and potentially all-encompassing term like 'mental health issues'.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
+1
The fact people "normally " will never mention their personal mental health problems ( even if they have lots of them) makes it seem like this is a major issue-- so big it HAS to be  revealed to strangers.
"When in doubt, leave it out..." ( I keep trying to teach myself this lesson.)

Mar 28 13 01:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Tansy Blue
Posts: 317
London, England, United Kingdom


Laura UnBound wrote:
That's not something I need to know unless its got the potential to ruin a shoot. I also don't need to know if you're single, if you like dogs, or have high cholesterol....unless its somehow going to screw up a shoot.

If you post personal info like that, that would otherwise have no bearing on the shoot, I'm going to assume you're telling me it because it will cause a problem, in which case I have no wish to work with you.

+1

If someone put "I have mental health problems" on their profile with no further explanation, that would concern me and I would probably press for more info. If they said something like "I have obsessive compulsive disorder and may stop the shoot a few times an hour so I can [wash my hands, or whatever]" that would be fine. I don't mind people letting me know about abnormalities in their behaviour at all, and in most cases I'd be okay with that (i.e. I will be okay with it unless it will put me/others in danger or make it impossible for me to work). Vague, non-specific disclosures can be worrisome.

I have relatively disabling mental health problems (depression & anxiety), but I don't mention it on my profile as they don't really affect shoots; I can cope with 4 or 8 hours of interaction. Once or twice they've caused me to reschedule shoots, but this is really rare and I figure not all that different to rescheduling due to any other form of illness. And because they stop me going to school, I can shoot weekday daytimes, so overall they've probably got me more shoots than otherwise. tongue

Will Snizek wrote:
I'd also like to add that people with schizophrenia do not have multiple personalities that could change on set like mentioned above. That's the Hollywood version of schizophrenia.  People with multiple personalities generally fall under dissociative disorder...something completely different.

+1 to this too! Very common misconception.

Dissociative identity disorder is the classical multiple personalities disorder, and it's ridiculously vanishingly rare. Schizophrenia is something different; I don't know much about it but I believe that in most cases it's manageable and won't necessarily affect the shoot.

Mar 28 13 01:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
William Kious
Posts: 8,841
Delphos, Ohio, US


Really, it doesn't matter to me... so long as we're not talking about legitimate psycho/sociopath issues, etc. So long my personal safety (or the safety of others) isn't in question, what does it matter?
Mar 28 13 01:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Francesca Lazzari
Posts: 237
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


New Art Photo wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
+1
The fact people "normally " will never mention their personal mental health problems ( even if they have lots of them) makes it seem like this is a major issue-- so big it HAS to be  revealed to strangers.
"When in doubt, leave it out..." ( I keep trying to teach myself this lesson.)

That is very true but, i have seen a lot of people on model mayhem posting they have physical health problems (I mean like asthma or arthritis) which won't affect the final image per se.

You also need to remember that, seen a lot of times in the modelling industry, eating disorders are also mental health problems and even though you don't need to know (or perhaps they aren't aware they even HAVE this problem?) I bet if a girl fainted on set or lost so much weight by the time you wanted to shoot her you'd call it different.

Its better to out than in. As Shrek always says wink

Mar 28 13 01:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Francesca Lazzari
Posts: 237
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


Tansy Blue wrote:

Laura UnBound wrote:
That's not something I need to know unless its got the potential to ruin a shoot. I also don't need to know if you're single, if you like dogs, or have high cholesterol....unless its somehow going to screw up a shoot.

If you post personal info like that, that would otherwise have no bearing on the shoot, I'm going to assume you're telling me it because it will cause a problem, in which case I have no wish to work with you.

+1

If someone put "I have mental health problems" on their profile with no further explanation, that would concern me and I would probably press for more info. If they said something like "I have obsessive compulsive disorder and may stop the shoot a few times an hour so I can [wash my hands, or whatever]" that would be fine. I don't mind people letting me know about abnormalities in their behaviour at all, and in most cases I'd be okay with that (i.e. I will be okay with it unless it will put me/others in danger or make it impossible for me to work). Vague, non-specific disclosures can be worrisome.

I have relatively disabling mental health problems (depression & anxiety), but I don't mention it on my profile as they don't really affect shoots; I can cope with 4 or 8 hours of interaction. Once or twice they've caused me to reschedule shoots, but this is really rare and I figure not all that different to rescheduling due to any other form of illness. And because they stop me going to school, I can shoot weekday daytimes, so overall they've probably got me more shoots than otherwise. tongue


+1 to this too! Very common misconception.

Dissociative identity disorder is the classical multiple personalities disorder, and it's ridiculously vanishingly rare. Schizophrenia is something different; I don't know much about it but I believe that in most cases it's manageable and won't necessarily affect the shoot.

I love your answer, and its very well thought out and put across thankyou.

Mar 28 13 01:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


Tansy Blue wrote:

Laura UnBound wrote:
That's not something I need to know unless its got the potential to ruin a shoot. I also don't need to know if you're single, if you like dogs, or have high cholesterol....unless its somehow going to screw up a shoot.

If you post personal info like that, that would otherwise have no bearing on the shoot, I'm going to assume you're telling me it because it will cause a problem, in which case I have no wish to work with you.

+1

If someone put "I have mental health problems" on their profile with no further explanation, that would concern me and I would probably press for more info. If they said something like "I have obsessive compulsive disorder and may stop the shoot a few times an hour so I can [wash my hands, or whatever]" that would be fine. I don't mind people letting me know about abnormalities in their behaviour at all, and in most cases I'd be okay with that (i.e. I will be okay with it unless it will put me/others in danger or make it impossible for me to work). Vague, non-specific disclosures can be worrisome.

I have relatively disabling mental health problems (depression & anxiety), but I don't mention it on my profile as they don't really affect shoots; I can cope with 4 or 8 hours of interaction. Once or twice they've caused me to reschedule shoots, but this is really rare and I figure not all that different to rescheduling due to any other form of illness. And because they stop me going to school, I can shoot weekday daytimes, so overall they've probably got me more shoots than otherwise. tongue


+1 to this too! Very common misconception.

Dissociative identity disorder is the classical multiple personalities disorder, and it's ridiculously vanishingly rare. Schizophrenia is something different; I don't know much about it but I believe that in most cases it's manageable and won't necessarily affect the shoot.

Dissociative disorder is extremely rare.  Schizophrenia occurs in about one out of every hundred people, so it's pretty much impossible to live life without knowing someone who doesn't Have it.  Odds are you'll never figure it out too unless they tell you.

Mar 28 13 01:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gabby57
Posts: 400
Coppell, Texas, US


Specifics would be important of course, as in liability, safely and reputation concerns.  It would certainly be good for the photographer to have an assistant present for the shoot, and no sword play with depressed models I think.

I wonder what the response would be if the diagnosis was on the other foot, ie models shooting with photographers who openly discussed mental issues. . .
Mar 28 13 01:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 27,230
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


You'd be better off not putting it in your profile, but rather explaining it upon your first interaction with someone when they are setting up the shoot with you. It might not actually pertain to the shoots people would like to set up with you but since you put it in your profile they're just passing you without wanting further explanation.
Mar 28 13 01:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Erzsebet
Posts: 1,512
BARNSTABLE, Massachusetts, US


No.

I avoid models with demands, and potential drama... that includes your mental health. There's nothing I can do if I find out after the fact... I can only know or find out so much. But if you put it right out there like that... I'd rather not.

I want to see your work, and your goals, maybe a bit of you, but the shorter and sweeter, the more likely I am to work with you (as a photographer).
Mar 28 13 01:26 pm  Link  Quote 
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