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Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


What would you say is the success rate for curvy petite models under 5 foot 5 inches?
Apr 02 13 07:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
In Its Own Way
Posts: 165
Fort Wayne, Indiana, US


Depends completely on how you define success.  Commercial success as in runway llamaing - probably not going to happen.  Making a decent living and having fun shooting - absolutely.
Apr 02 13 07:26 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Katie Pagani
Posts: 239
New York, New York, US


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:
What would you say is the success rate for curvy petite models under 5 foot 5 inches?

Success is what you make of it. I wouldn't consider myself curvy but at 5'2" I am definitely petite! Honestly, being short, yes your options are limited I know I will never be in Vogue or be considered for a lot of companies (such as Victoria's Secret) but that doesn't stop me from continuing to search for my niche smile It's all about determination

Apr 02 13 07:32 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


depends on the market, and how you define success smile
Apr 02 13 07:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Keith92883
Posts: 137
Corona, California, US


It all depends on how you look not some numbers of limited value.
Apr 02 13 07:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Image Works Photography
Posts: 2,890
Orlando, Florida, US


I have worked with short models and doesn't bother me. On the contrary it helps me shoot with my primes. Agency rep. models might be a different issue since they have certain criteria.
Apr 02 13 08:15 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


I've accepted that I'll never do Runway or be with an agency. I suppose I was thinking more on the lines of catalog and simply paid shoots. Advertisement, sort of things.
Apr 02 13 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Katie Pagani
Posts: 239
New York, New York, US


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:
I've accepted that I'll never do Runway or be with an agency. I suppose I was thinking more on the lines of catalog and simply paid shoots. Advertisement, sort of things.

That's definitely an option, but you just have to keep pushing until you get that paid shoot as I'm sure you know, it's not as easy as it seems. What's really helped me is networking constantly. MM is really useful for this purpose. Get out there and shoot as much as you can, even if sometimes it means doing trade for a little bit. Along the way, you will probably meet photogs, models, etc. who know someone who knows someone that can get you something. Check out the castings as well, usually the pay is small but hey we all gotta start somewhere!

Apr 02 13 08:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,877
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


In the modeling industry, there really is no such thing as "curvy petite".  Working agency petite models are 5'4" to 5-7" and size 0-2, and are close to major commercial markets.  Most paid work for petite models in Michigan is auto show, spokesmodel, and alcohol promotional modeling and mostly in the Detroit Metro area. Its generally easier for models under 5'8" to get paid for lingerie, swimsuit, and nude work. On MM alone, there are 3500+ Michigan models who are taller than you.

Only you can define success for yourself. Can you find photographers that like your look-yes.  Are you likely to get any paid work in the area and style you want-no.
Apr 02 13 08:38 am  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,489
Los Angeles, California, US


You're a tiny little thing!

Ok, so here's the deal. Agency work is pretty much out for you, unless you have an insane talent that will get you signed to a talent agency (sometimes those can get you modeling work-- though it's usually related to that specific talent).

The short models I know who work a lot tend to either shoot sexy work and nudes or alternative (tattoo/pinup girls/ etc) and nudes.

I'm definitely not trying to convince you to do nudes here, but just keep in mind when it comes to money that jobs are limited by your height.
Everything that you don't do is going to mean you have less jobs available and that the jobs you're going for have more competition.

So, there's that. It's definitely an uphill battle and if you're in it for money, I'd try another profession.

But, if you really like it and want to see where it can take you (note: lots of girls put more money into this than they get out of it), then work on your portfolio. Either do trade shoots with the photographers that will help your portfolio or pay one that's amazing, and submit yourself to some jobs. You can look at the casting section on MM to see if there are any jobs in your area to submit to as well.

Good luck!!!
Apr 02 13 08:45 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Loki Studio wrote:
In the modeling industry, there really is no such thing as "curvy petite".  Working agency petite models are 5'4" to 5-7" and size 0-2, and are close to major commercial markets.  Most paid work for petite models in Michigan is auto show, spokesmodel, and alcohol promotional modeling and mostly in the Detroit Metro area. Its generally easier for models under 5'8" to get paid for lingerie, swimsuit, and nude work. On MM alone, there are 3500+ Michigan models who are taller than you.

Only you can define success for yourself. Can you find photographers that like your look-yes.  Are you likely to get any paid work in the area and style you want-no.

Although I'm not happy about that, it is nice to get some realism. I understand that it's going to be very difficult to get work, if I can at all. But I'm willing to work at it and work hard. Hopefully that counts for something.

Apr 02 13 08:51 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


K I C K H A M wrote:
You're a tiny little thing!

Ok, so here's the deal. Agency work is pretty much out for you, unless you have an insane talent that will get you signed to a talent agency (sometimes those can get you modeling work-- though it's usually related to that specific talent).

The short models I know who work a lot tend to either shoot sexy work and nudes or alternative (tattoo/pinup girls/ etc) and nudes.

I'm definitely not trying to convince you to do nudes here, but just keep in mind when it comes to money that jobs are limited by your height.
Everything that you don't do is going to mean you have less jobs available and that the jobs you're going for have more competition.

So, there's that. It's definitely an uphill battle and if you're in it for money, I'd try another profession.

But, if you really like it and want to see where it can take you (note: lots of girls put more money into this than they get out of it), then work on your portfolio. Either do trade shoots with the photographers that will help your portfolio or pay one that's amazing, and submit yourself to some jobs. You can look at the casting section on MM to see if there are any jobs in your area to submit to as well.

Good luck!!!

I know! I'm definitely a smurf. Haha. Thank you so much for your input! I'm going to look through castings and see what I can find. I totally understand that it won't he easy, and I'm definitely not looking to change my image unless I absolutely have to. I'm not very good at 'sexy.' Haha. Thank you for your help!

Apr 02 13 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,489
Los Angeles, California, US


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:

I know! I'm definitely a smurf. Haha. Thank you so much for your input! I'm going to look through castings and see what I can find. I totally understand that it won't he easy, and I'm definitely not looking to change my image unless I absolutely have to. I'm not very good at 'sexy.' Haha. Thank you for your help!

Trust me, I understand.

I don't do nudes, but most girls in my market do (in LA, not Taiwan)-- and I definitely miss out on some work because of it. But, I don't want to do nudes, and it's not worth the money for me. It is, however, important to assess what your wants, abilities and goals are. You may change your mind about "sexy" shoots, and you may not! It's all about weighing the risks nd rewards and figuring out what's important to you. smile

Apr 02 13 09:03 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1,618
Los Angeles, California, US


Anna Adrielle wrote:
depends on the market, and how you define success smile

this.

Apr 02 13 10:30 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:
I'm not very good at 'sexy.' Haha.

It's something you can grow into. I didn't used to be, either. :-P

Apr 02 13 03:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Rachel-Elise
Posts: 1,650
Grand Rapids, Michigan, US


Also, remember that "sexy" does not necessarily mean "nekkid." I've never in my life done a nude or topless shoot.
Apr 02 13 03:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Rachel-Elise  wrote:
Also, remember that "sexy" does not necessarily mean "nekkid." I've never in my life done a nude or topless shoot.

That's actually quite good to keep in mind.

Apr 02 13 03:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Hieronimi
Posts: 238
Chicago, Illinois, US


It depends on what you deem as successful.

On MM, you can be under 5'5 and book work with amazing photographers to produce stunning images with the help of MUAH and retouchers.

If you are looking to be in the industry, though, you'll need an agency. Agencies take on female llamas for commerical work at the heights of 5'5-5'9. Runway and high fashion has a height requirement of 5'10-6'0. They are strict about those requirements. However, there are some rare exceptions such as Dean Johnson at IMG.
Apr 02 13 03:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,859
Detroit, Michigan, US


I am 4'10" and I have had moderate success by the idea of paid shoots. I consider myself more successful in terms of my own goals. I make any where from a couple hundred to a few hundred dollars most months with my modeling, I have a fan base, I have been in pieces that have sold in several art shows (including international ones), and I enjoy and love what I do.

I do shoot nudes, mainly art nudes, sensual glamour (less sexy, more soft and boudoir type), and conceptual, again usually nude. I have also done some vintage, bridal, and similar because I owned wardrobe that people liked. I have been told I have a commercial look, but in my market, at least, even those doing commercial prefer taller girls and they tend not to pay anyway. I have only ever been paid for nude work and one time for some very tame foot fetish work (which I wish so much I could find more of).

I am not in exactly the same area as you, but I could mention a couple group shoots for you that might help you network a bit if you want to PM me. You might also try looking into things like Zivity as well. I am an ambassador for them so I can answer pretty much any questions you have there as well. ^_^
Apr 02 13 06:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Dekilah wrote:
I am 4'10" and I have had moderate success by the idea of paid shoots. I consider myself more successful in terms of my own goals. I make any where from a couple hundred to a few hundred dollars most months with my modeling, I have a fan base, I have been in pieces that have sold in several art shows (including international ones), and I enjoy and love what I do.

I do shoot nudes, mainly art nudes, sensual glamour (less sexy, more soft and boudoir type), and conceptual, again usually nude. I have also done some vintage, bridal, and similar because I owned wardrobe that people liked. I have been told I have a commercial look, but in my market, at least, even those doing commercial prefer taller girls and they tend not to pay anyway. I have only ever been paid for nude work and one time for some very tame foot fetish work (which I wish so much I could find more of).

I am not in exactly the same area as you, but I could mention a couple group shoots for you that might help you network a bit if you want to PM me. You might also try looking into things like Zivity as well. I am an ambassador for them so I can answer pretty much any questions you have there as well. ^_^

Share your secrets? Lol

Apr 03 13 03:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Leighthenubian
Posts: 2,740
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:
What would you say is the success rate for curvy petite models under 5 foot 5 inches?

Many guys on MM will pay you to shoot, naked or otherwise. Obviously naked pays better. However, you have to think of the big picture. How many images from GWC's with their lenses zoomed up your cooter do you want on the web?

What's your end-game, is modelling it?

Commercially...forget it unless you have some feature which can be isolated such as great hands, interesting face, teeth etc. Many of the people I shoot for my commercial client work are not what you would consider models in the classical sense of the word. They just have a feature that clients want to isolate such as 300 frames of skin I recently shot for a dermal regeneration clinic. Or 500 frames of nails for a salon in a resort area north of my city.

You might even be able to snag some catalogue work...even then it's a long shot. Just ask the tall, skinny and pretty girls how hard it is to make a good living at modelling.

Apr 03 13 03:18 am  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,489
Los Angeles, California, US


Dekilah wrote:
I am 4'10" and I have had moderate success by the idea of paid shoots. I consider myself more successful in terms of my own goals. I make any where from a couple hundred to a few hundred dollars most months with my modeling, I have a fan base, I have been in pieces that have sold in several art shows (including international ones), and I enjoy and love what I do.

I do shoot nudes, mainly art nudes, sensual glamour (less sexy, more soft and boudoir type), and conceptual, again usually nude. I have also done some vintage, bridal, and similar because I owned wardrobe that people liked. I have been told I have a commercial look, but in my market, at least, even those doing commercial prefer taller girls and they tend not to pay anyway. I have only ever been paid for nude work and one time for some very tame foot fetish work (which I wish so much I could find more of).

I am not in exactly the same area as you, but I could mention a couple group shoots for you that might help you network a bit if you want to PM me. You might also try looking into things like Zivity as well. I am an ambassador for them so I can answer pretty much any questions you have there as well. ^_^

If this girl is offering to give you personal advice through PM, I highly suggest taking her up on it.

Apr 03 13 03:25 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


K I C K H A M wrote:

If this girl is offering to give you personal advice through PM, I highly suggest taking her up on it.

I absolutely am.

Apr 03 13 03:40 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Rosey Lee
Posts: 13
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


I think that question is a little broad... what type of modeling are you speaking of? What do you define as being successful... etc.

I'm a 5'0 curvy model... and loving every minute of it, however I am focusing on classic pin-up style modeling which I work very well for.
Apr 07 13 09:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carle Photography
Posts: 9,227
Oakland, California, US


Rachel-Elise  wrote:
Also, remember that "sexy" does not necessarily mean "nekkid." I've never in my life done a nude or topless shoot.

Conversely, I've modeled for hundreds of nude shoots that were never anything near "sexy"

wink

But yes, even in looks based jobs such as modeling, your marketing and business sense WILL have an impact.

Apr 07 13 09:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Rosey Lee wrote:
I think that question is a little broad... what type of modeling are you speaking of? What do you define as being successful... etc.

I'm a 5'0 curvy model... and loving every minute of it, however I am focusing on classic pin-up style modeling which I work very well for.

I suppose by 'success' I mean the amount of work (paid or otherwise) a model can get. I think I'm looking more for 'petite' fashion (if there is even a such thing,) beauty, catalog, commercial, and maybe some edgier things.

Apr 08 13 05:24 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,985
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:

Share your secrets? Lol

The secret is she does nudes.

In the way of Internet modeling (which is what's available to those of us who can't be agency signed) nudes are where the money is at, nudes are where the gallery pieces and publications are at, nudes are where the "success" is at. That's the hard truth of it. Or fetish work.


Can you still build a great clothed portfolio and make lots of pretty pictures that you can keep forever and ever? Sure, absolutely. It might be a bit tougher to get the quality you want at the speed you want,  but its possible. If a handful of cool photos you're proud of is "success" enough for you, there you go.

If its not good enough ...take a hard long think about nude work. Or decide against being "successful" in modeling.

Apr 08 13 01:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,274
Muncie, Indiana, US


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:

I suppose by 'success' I mean the amount of work (paid or otherwise) a model can get. I think I'm looking more for 'petite' fashion (if there is even a such thing,) beauty, catalog, commercial, and maybe some edgier things.

Petite fashion doesn't exist if you are curvy.

Nudes are how you will get paid.

Apr 08 13 01:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,985
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Isis22 wrote:
Petite fashion doesn't exist if you are curvy.

Nudes are how you will get paid.

Petite also cuts off somewhere around 5'6", for fashion, commercial, etc.

OP: since you can't change your stats, change what you bring to the table.

Become very proficient in doing your own hair and makeup
Build a unique (but versatile) wardrobe
Are you super bendy/can do amazing poses? If not, work on that
Do you have access to cool locations, neat props, do you know a guy with an old car or a horse or whatever someone might want for a shoot with you.

Any little thing that you can do that another model who looks like you can't, makes you more valuable than her. Which means you get picked.

It's gonna cost money, investing in hair and makeup classes and professional grade kits is costly, wardrobe can be costly, all of it is time consuming, but it can be worth it if it helps you reach your goals.

Apr 08 13 01:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


Success, photography and modeling are all subjective terms.  Since you don't have agency stats, the level of success is limited.  If I were you, I'd continue modeling if you enjoy it though.  There's some money to be made especially if you are easy to work with.
Apr 08 13 02:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Isis22 wrote:

Petite fashion doesn't exist if you are curvy.

Nudes are how you will get paid.

That cannot be the only way to get paid.

Apr 08 13 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:

That cannot be the only way to get paid.

I have friends who are too short for agencies up in the NYC area and they make a decent amount of money without doing nudes.

Apr 08 13 02:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Laura UnBound wrote:

Petite also cuts off somewhere around 5'6", for fashion, commercial, etc.

OP: since you can't change your stats, change what you bring to the table.

Become very proficient in doing your own hair and makeup
Build a unique (but versatile) wardrobe
Are you super bendy/can do amazing poses? If not, work on that
Do you have access to cool locations, neat props, do you know a guy with an old car or a horse or whatever someone might want for a shoot with you.

Any little thing that you can do that another model who looks like you can't, makes you more valuable than her. Which means you get picked.

It's gonna cost money, investing in hair and makeup classes and professional grade kits is costly, wardrobe can be costly, all of it is time consuming, but it can be worth it if it helps you reach your goals.

Oh, I'm quite proficient at hair and makeup, modesty aside. And I'm still trying to build up my portfolio, so I can definitely work on my poses. I'll have to find something that sets me aside!

Apr 08 13 02:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Will Snizek wrote:

I have friends who are too short for agencies up in the NYC area and they make a decent amount of money without doing nudes.

Thank you. Nude work isn't something I'm confortable with at this point.

Apr 08 13 02:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,985
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Will Snizek wrote:

I have friends who are too short for agencies up in the NYC area and they make a decent amount of money without doing nudes.

What ARE they shooting?


I know a lot of girls doing paid non-nude work...but it's fetish work.

Apr 08 13 02:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Laura UnBound wrote:

What ARE they shooting?


I know a lot of girls doing paid non-nude work...but it's fetish work.

Petit models can shoot beauty, as well. Not all petit models have to do nudes.

Apr 08 13 02:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 26,985
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:
Petit models can shoot beauty, as well. Not all petit models have to do nudes.

I merely asked what the girls are doing, if not nudes or fetish work. Seems some short girls would benefit from that info.

I'm not saying anybody HAS to do nudes.


But we're not talking about preferences and what people feel like doing, we're talking about "success" and money.

I'm asking what type of clothed modeling a short girl is doing that is "successful", by which I mean she does it with a sort of frequency (1 paid shoot here or there does not a "successful non nude model" make, of course)



And of course non nude models CAN model whatever they want. Being "successful" at it is a totally different ball game, one where most don't make it. There are oodles of agency girls/agency sized girls out there available for beauty, and they come with the reliability of the agency if they have one, and they'll do nudes if the project calls for it, and you can shoot more than JUST beauty work with them if you feel like it.. They get picked over short random girls from the Internet. The reality of a short model from the Internet making a "success" out of beauty work is slim. Real slim.

Apr 08 13 02:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carle Photography
Posts: 9,227
Oakland, California, US


Laura UnBound wrote:
What ARE they shooting?
I know a lot of girls doing paid non-nude work...but it's fetish work.
Lisa Mae Russell wrote:
Petit models can shoot beauty, as well. Not all petit models have to do nudes.

Let's circle back around to the word "successful".
You need to define it for yourself.

THEN, you can get an idea of it is possible.

How many people will HIRE YOU for a beauty job?
Yes, petite models CAN do beauty, but get HIRED for it?
How many times do you need to be HIRED to make your month goals?
How many times do you need to test to get hired for that ONE beauty job?
How many paying beauty jobs are within 100 miles of your location?

I have hosted many traveling models even the ones who dabble in fashion & beauty and edgy clothed work. I host them, they are not buying hotel rooms, the days are 16+ hours, the money is just enough to get them to the next city...

So once again, you need to define your goals:

-1 Pay out once in awhile to make pretty pictures.

0. Make pretty pictures & have fun. Break even on costs.

1. Get paid 250.00 profit a month?

2. Get paid enough to travel light and stay with friends?

3. Get paid enough to buy a house in the midwest small town?

4. Get paid enough to buy a house in a large city in California?


What most people don't realize when starting out is it takes 10 smaller test shoots, meets ups, shows, tearsheets, to get that ONE good 500.00 day...


& great tear sheet that would push you over the edge to getting even more paid work, just might show up a few years after you have stopped modeling... wink

Apr 08 13 02:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Azimuth Arts
Posts: 1,418
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Lisa Mae Russell wrote:
Petit llamas can shoot beauty, as well. Not all petit llamas have to do nudes.

Some CAN shoot beauty, but most commercial beauty work goes to agency llamas who can also do other stuff too.  That doesn't mean you can't get work for a local hair or nail salon, but how many of those are there in your area?  Do they all want the same face on their flyers and web page? 

There are ways to make money without getting naked, but they are limited, and likely only going to bring in a few hundred dollars a month. 

As Laura mentioned the more you can bring to the table the better.  If nude is not on the table consider lingerie, or maybe implied. 

Ultimately you need to look at what the other llamas in your area are doing to make money.  Why would I hire you for a beauty shoot if I can get an agency llama who fits in the wardrobe we have?  If I want to shoot some glamour I might not care if the llama is tall or short, but I will pick the one who is comfortable in lingerie or even better nude even if the most that is shown is some implied topless.

I wish you all the best in your pursuits.

Apr 08 13 03:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lisa Mae Russell
Posts: 66
Petoskey, Michigan, US


Death of Field wrote:

Laura UnBound wrote:
What ARE they shooting?
I know a lot of girls doing paid non-nude work...but it's fetish work.

Let's circle back around to the word "successful".
You need to define it for yourself.

THEN, you can get an idea of it is possible.

How many people will HIRE YOU for a beauty job?
Yes, petite models CAN do beauty, but get HIRED for it?
How many times do you need to be HIRED to make your month goals?
How many times do you need to test to get hired for that ONE beauty job?
How many paying beauty jobs are within 100 miles of your location?

I have hosted many traveling models even the ones who dabble in fashion & beauty and edgy clothed work. I host them, they are not buying hotel rooms, the days are 16+ hours, the money is just enough to get them to the next city...

So once again, you need to define your goals:

1. Get paid 250.00 a month?

2. Get paid enough to travel light and stay with friends?

3. Get paid enough to buy a house in the midwest small town?

4. Get paid enough to buy a house in a large city in California?


What most people don't realize when starting out is it takes 10 smaller test shoots, meets ups, shows, tearsheets, to get that ONE good 500.00 day...

Wow! Those are fantastic points to think about!

Apr 08 13 03:06 pm  Link  Quote 
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