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Photographer
FXT Photo
Posts: 4
Cockeysville, Maryland, US


Just wondering what the etiquette is for TF offers. In the past I have either given a CD of all unedited JPGs OR one or two edited and copyrighted (like in my port) prints (up to 8x10's).

This will likely be an open question but... What is the standard/average cost a model charges for a shoot? I'm sure there are many variables, just wondering ballpark.

F
Apr 04 13 08:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NewBoldPhoto
Posts: 4,894
PORT MURRAY, New Jersey, US


How long is a piece of string? ballpark... on average
The question is not answerable as asked.
Apr 04 13 09:03 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
-JAY-
Posts: 6,299
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


NewBoldPhoto wrote:
How long is a piece of string? ballpark... on average
The question is not answerable as asked.

+1

I give out 3-5 photos. Others give more. Others give less.

Apr 04 13 09:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Top Gun Digital
Posts: 1,211
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


For a TF shoot I generally tell models I will give them 3 hi-res images per look on a CD.

As for what a model charges, there is no ballpark figure.  It will vary depending on the level of experience of the model and the type of modeling involved.  A model shooting nudes will obviously charge more than a model shooting a fashion look.
Apr 04 13 09:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


FXT Photo wrote:
Just wondering what the etiquette is for TF offers. In the past I have either given a CD of all unedited JPGs OR one or two edited and copyrighted (like in my port) prints (up to 8x10's).

This will likely be an open question but... What is the standard/average cost a llama charges for a shoot? I'm sure there are many variables, just wondering ballpark.

F

I've given a llama two images retouched for a shoot, and 50 or so.  And, when I paid, I've paid $20 for two hours, and $400 for four hours.

But, I've never, ever, given a llama "all the images from the shoot on a CD."  Can't imagine why anyone would do that.

Apr 04 13 09:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BodyartBabes
Posts: 2,004
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US


FXT Photo wrote:
Just wondering what the etiquette is for TF offers. In the past I have either given a CD of all unedited JPGs OR one or two edited and copyrighted (like in my port) prints (up to 8x10's).

This will likely be an open question but... What is the standard/average cost a model charges for a shoot? I'm sure there are many variables, just wondering ballpark.

F

TF* is a TRADE.

What makes both parties happy and is considered fair by each is good.

Trading a set of tires for 2 hours work, if that works for you, is fine too.

What isn't fine is thinking that you can offer 2 watermarked screen res prints for a model's time, and make it seem fair.  Unfortunately, some people try to convince others that it is "more than generous" for all sorts of baloney reasons.

New models will want more photos than established models, in general.
Fashion models will want a different type/amount of images than an art model.

Be flexible. 

I've traded everything from beads to a tank of gas, etc.   I usually give the models the unedited JPG's because it might be 2 years before I get around to processing any images. 

Other people give the models a selection of images after they pull out the "bad ones".  Personally, I don't have time for that, the model can dispose of them if she wishes.

Some people only send the model a few finished images.   *SOME* models are happy with that.  Others are not at all.  Remember.  What a model needs and wants in her (or his) portfolio is *NOT* what a photographer needs or wants in theirs.  "Artsy" works for the artist, but often fails for the model.  The models port is about THEM.  THEY are the product.  The images they have in it should reflect that.   

Of course everyone likes to have "good" images too...

As one model put it "It's hard to realize that a good photo is not a good photo for my portfolio."

Scott

Apr 04 13 09:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Silver Mirage
Posts: 1,554
Plainview, Texas, US


I generally give the model 8 to 12 fully finished JPEG files - web size is standard and I give printable sizes to those how want them.

Typically I show a model 35 to 50 proof shots, let her/him chose 3 "must haves" and  6 or 8 favs. I do the "must haves' and compare the model's picks with my own to make the final cut.

But everything is negotiable.
Apr 04 13 09:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BodyartBabes
Posts: 2,004
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US


Art of the nude wrote:
But, I've never, ever, given a llama "all the images from the shoot on a CD."  Can't imagine why anyone would do that.

Why not?  What are you going to do with them all?

As I just said in a previous post, I may not get to the images for 2 years.  By then they are no good to the llama.  Also, by then, they will have been forgotten and show up as "new" wink

It's all your style and the purpose of the shoot.

Images are worthless unless someone is willing to pay for them.

Usually, "we" as photographers get paid for our SERVICES not the images.  So, while some people over-value their images, I prefer to over value my time.   I have far less time, than I do images wink

I have a room full of negatives, slides and prints from a by-gone day.  A whole darkroom with boxes of stuff that will most likely never see the light of day again.

So, why not give the llama all the images, let them enjoy them, have fun with them, and make use of them?   I couldn't do that easily in the old days (althoughh I learned early that shooting print film for BBS work (print scanners were much cheaper and faster than slide scanners) that getting double prints and giving the llamas a set, made them EXTREMELY Happy and since it was "free" or $1 more, worth every penny).

If something is really shot for a "special project" I'll trade other images for them.

In the larger "whole" there are precious few images worth enough to bother to protect.  Seriously.  And, as digital expands, and the number of images out there grows, fewer and fewer images will ever be worth anything as "stock" or in the "future."

But that is/are just a few reasons why someone would give the llamas all the images.

Models learn from the "bad ones" just as much as photographers do.(or should).

Apr 04 13 09:33 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
EbbysTouch
Posts: 51
Dallas, Texas, US


2 images per look and all shoots are 3 looks + 1 bonus image=7 images.
I cull (images that do not represent me or the model well are removed) and then the model and I select the 7 together from images that made the final cut.

The bad ones have already been discussed with the model throughout the shoot as I communicate and talk to the model (and chimp some, not excessively) during the shoot.
Apr 04 13 09:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Toto Photo
Posts: 2,416
Belmont, California, US


FXT Photo wrote:
Just wondering what the etiquette is for TF offers. In the past I have either given a CD of all unedited JPGs OR one or two edited and copyrighted (like in my port) prints (up to 8x10's).

This will likely be an open question but... What is the standard/average cost a model charges for a shoot? I'm sure there are many variables, just wondering ballpark.

F

You're probably well within the average with a TF deal like that.

Apr 04 13 10:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Abbitt Photography
Posts: 11,370
Oakland Acres, Iowa, US


Most shoots I do result in 10-20 finished images that I think are my final product.  That's what I share with the model.  What other photographers do varies, but I think I'm fairly typical.

Pay varies greatly.  The national average according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics is something like $17+/hour, but those models probably don't represent MM modeling very well.  When I pay, the rates have usually been in the $15-$20/hour range for portfolio or Stock work (moderately experienced models) and more like $25-$30/hour for art nudes. I include some images on top of that. Obviously there are also some experienced models here who ask for $100/hour or more, but for me paying four times as much isn't worth it - for others it will be.
Apr 05 13 06:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,279
Atlanta, Georgia, US


2 or maybe 3 images per look edited, no reason for unedited images as those are useless to a model.

As for the second part, I would guess it depends on the model and market but I don't generally hire models or try to charge them.  I shoot trades with the ones who really impress me otherwise I would rather spend time with or looking for clients.
Apr 05 13 07:04 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 5,938
New York, New York, US


BodyartBabes wrote:

TF* is a TRADE.

What makes both parties happy and is considered fair by each is good.

Trading a set of tires for 2 hours work, if that works for you, is fine too.

What isn't fine is thinking that you can offer 2 watermarked screen res prints for a model's time, and make it seem fair.  Unfortunately, some people try to convince others that it is "more than generous" for all sorts of baloney reasons.

New models will want more photos than established models, in general.
Fashion models will want a different type/amount of images than an art model.

Be flexible. 

I've traded everything from beads to a tank of gas, etc.   I usually give the models the unedited JPG's because it might be 2 years before I get around to processing any images. 

Other people give the models a selection of images after they pull out the "bad ones".  Personally, I don't have time for that, the model can dispose of them if she wishes.

Some people only send the model a few finished images.   *SOME* models are happy with that.  Others are not at all.  Remember.  What a model needs and wants in her (or his) portfolio is *NOT* what a photographer needs or wants in theirs.  "Artsy" works for the artist, but often fails for the model.  The models port is about THEM.  THEY are the product.  The images they have in it should reflect that.   

Of course everyone likes to have "good" images too...

As one model put it "It's hard to realize that a good photo is not a good photo for my portfolio."

Scott

Plus several thousand.

Ultimately it comes down to if it's a bad deal for anybody it's a bad deal for everybody.  The answer is to communicate fully, openly and honestly, to be ready to say "No, thanks," if it doesn't work for you, and to be not only understanding but supportive if it doesn't work for the other person.

Apr 05 13 07:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JOEL McDONALD
Posts: 608
Portland, Oregon, US


It's negotiable.

In my case;

When the model does the genres or concepts I want/need I'll often let them bring a couple of clothing changes to do genres they want/need. This way we both get want we want.

Plus, I usually give around a dozen low res edited and copyrighted ones, then let the model also choose 2 or 3 of those to get hi res versions.

And, if the model travels more than 100 miles one way or is a student I'll sometimes offer $20-$30 for gas.

With the number of models that have wanted TF shoots I have yet to pay by the hour, but some pretty impressive models have offered these (average) hourly rates:: $25p/h lingerie/implied; $50p/h subtle/art nudes; $95+p/h playboy style; $120+p/h penthouse or more.
Apr 05 13 07:53 am  Link  Quote 
Admin
CleeIB
Posts: 3,948
Los Angeles, California, US


FXT, people have likely already discussed this issue in both the Model Colloquy and Photography Talk forums:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/t.php?forum_id=9
http://www.modelmayhem.com/t.php?forum_id=2

Use the "Search" function at upper right, and you may find some wisdom smile

Enjoy the Mayhem!
Apr 05 13 11:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravo Magic Images
Posts: 765
Temple City, California, US


What you give out may not be what the models want so i just keep a normal format. I give them  head shots 5 half body shoots and 5 full body shots and 2 edits on a trade shoot. Simple and easy you both get something for each others time.
Apr 05 13 11:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FXT Photo
Posts: 4
Cockeysville, Maryland, US


Thanks everyone for the replys. I knew when I posted the questions I would get a huge variety of answers (and I did), but it does give me an idea of what others do.
Apr 05 13 02:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A Sight Worth Seeing
Posts: 125
Fresno, California, US


Lately on TF* shots I've given the model any image I'm reasonably likely to use myself. If it is a true trade I figure the fair thing is that we both end up with the good images, and I'm not obligated to give the model images that didn't come out right.
Apr 06 13 10:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
StanleyReysa
Posts: 7
Greensboro, North Carolina, US


NewBoldPhoto wrote:
How long is a piece of string? ballpark... on average
The question is not answerable as asked.

The string may have multiples lengths at the same time, or definitely is twice as long as half its length (:

Apr 07 13 12:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PDF IMAGES PHOTOGRAPHY
Posts: 4,602
Jacksonville, Florida, US


Avg. 10 edited images
Apr 07 13 12:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,212
Salem, Oregon, US


for trade shoots i dropbox the model a proofing gallery at mayhem resolution (she can use those on facebook if she wishes) and then i let her choose her favorites for retouching and i retouch as many of those as i have time for. i try to do at least two per hour of shoot time.

back several years ago when i got started, very experienced traveling nude models were typically available for $75-$125/hour.
Apr 07 13 08:05 am  Link  Quote 
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