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first123
Model
AnnieS
Posts: 34
Bountiful, Utah, US


Also if I am on my own and I don't feel comfortable it will interfere with my work ending in bad photographs.  I have had some bad experiences and it isn't nice.

IMO, if you are uncomfortable on a shoot to the point where it would result in a bad shoot, you should pick up your things and leave the set immediately. If you feel the need so strongly that you need to have an escort there, perhaps modeling isn't for you then.

http://www.shotbyadam.com/images/escort.jpg

You know how people are out there and the kinds of things that can happen.  Modeling is for me, I love doing it, it's fun and actually helps me in many ways but some bad things have happened. 

So are you saying that models/myself are just supposed to trust some stranger that you have never met before, take you to secluded spot miles from nowhere and trust them 100% that they wont assault you?  Under certain circumstances like for if I was asked to shoot for playboy for excreta it would be a different story, but meeting a photographer online like MM and just going with them, you never know what would happen.  Since joining I have had some really creepy people message me, asking to go on a shoot and talking about sex in the messages.  Come on it's common sense.

May 16 13 03:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
zaxpix
Posts: 1,988
New Brunswick, New Jersey, US


AnnieS  wrote:
Please don't put escorts all into one boat, it is overgeneralizing.  Also if I am on my own and I don't feel comfortable it will interfere with my work ending in bad photographs.  I have had some bad experiences and it isn't nice.

A bit of empathy is needed here Annie.

It's no more of a generalization than your requiring of an escort because of, "...some bad experiences..."

Specific reasons for not allowing escorts have been cited due to the fact that many photographers have had negative experiences with them on set.

I know for a fact that,  many models cringe at the idea of having anyone accompanying them to a shoot. Those are the ones I end up working with.

"To each his/her reach."

Do what's best for you.

Z.

May 16 13 03:47 am  Link  Quote 
Model
AnnieS
Posts: 34
Bountiful, Utah, US


zaxpix wrote:
A bit of empathy is needed here Annie.

It's no more of a generalization than your requiring of an escort because of, "...some bad experiences..."

Specific reasons for not allowing escorts have been cited due to the fact that many photographers have had negative experiences with them on set.

I know for a fact that,  many models cringe at the idea of having anyone accompanying them to a shoot. Those are the ones I end up working with.

"To each his/her reach."

Do what's best for you.

Z.

I know and understand where the photographers are coming from, I have worked with photographers who have told me of their bad experiences with escorts.  When I am booked for a shoot I let the photographer know that I will be bringing an escort along with me and 99% of them don't mind, especially when I tell them of the experiences I have had, we discuss it and we are all on the same page, no problem.  Sometimes my husband will even talk on the phone with them before the shoot.

I don't cringe when someone is accompanying me, I really don't mind, I just feel safer because I know that if a photographer were to try anything I am not alone and my body won't be found months later in a ditch somewhere.

May 16 13 03:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
glumpy
Posts: 516
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


AnnieS  wrote:
So are you saying that models/myself are just supposed to trust some stranger that you have never met before, take you to secluded spot miles from nowhere and trust them 100% that they wont assault you?

I say that if you are so paranoid and worried that I will assault or commit a crime against you unless someone is there to stop me, you would be stupid to go anywhere near me for any reason at all.

I wonder how many girls have met a bloke at a club or bar for the first time and gone " Parking" with them afterwards or let them drive them home or invited them in for " Coffee"? I'll bet if the girl was interested in the guy, they wouldn't be saying they needed to get a friend to go with them " For their Safety".

Unlike many photographers, these guys would not have had a list of people their Bona fides could be checked with girls they had Dated/ worked with before.


AnnieS  wrote:
Sometimes my husband will even talk on the phone with them before the shoot.

Geez Louise!
If your husband gives them a grilling on the phone before hand and they are prepared to put up with that and still want to shoot with you, both, maybe you are working with such desperates that  having a babysitter with you is a good idea.

If I was talking to someone about a shoot and had to go through an interview/ interrogation with a 3rd party, It better be the agent of a supermodel I'm talking to . If it's anyone else, they can find another sucker to take their insecurities out on.
I only shoot with big girls who can look after their own affairs and don't suffer from paranoia.

Out of interest, If you were planning a Topless/ Nude shoot and the photographer told your husband that he would be bringing one of his mates along to protect him from you guys, what would his reaction be to that?

May 16 13 05:06 am  Link  Quote 
Model
AnnieS
Posts: 34
Bountiful, Utah, US


glumpy wrote:

AnnieS  wrote:
So are you saying that models/myself are just supposed to trust some stranger that you have never met before, take you to secluded spot miles from nowhere and trust them 100% that they wont assault you?

I say that if you are so paranoid and worried that I will assault or commit a crime against you unless someone is there to stop me, you would be stupid to go anywhere near me for any reason at all.

I wonder how many girls have met a bloke at a club or bar for the first time and gone " Parking" with them afterwards or let them drive them home or invited them in for " Coffee"? I'll bet if the girl was interested in the guy, they wouldn't be saying they needed to get a friend to go with them " For their Safety".

Unlike many photographers, these guys would not have had a list of people their Bona fides could be checked with girls they had Dated/ worked with before.



Geez Louise!
If your husband gives them a grilling on the phone before hand and they are prepared to put up with that and still want to shoot with you, both, maybe you are working with such desperates that  having a babysitter with you is a good idea.

If I was talking to someone about a shoot and had to go through an interview/ interrogation with a 3rd party, It better be the agent of a supermodel I'm talking to . If it's anyone else, they can find another sucker to take their insecurities out on.
I only shoot with big girls who can look after their own affairs and don't suffer from paranoia.

Out of interest, If you were planning a Topless/ Nude shoot and the photographer told your husband that he would be bringing one of his mates along to protect him from you guys, what would his reaction be to that?

My husband doesn't give them an interrogation over the phone.  I can look after myself and I am not desperate.  You don't have throw mean comments at me because of my opinions.  I like to keep myself safe because some terrible things have happened to me and yes sometimes I am paranoid, I have ptsd, does that mean I should never model and shut myself away in a locked room? And just for the record the photographers I have shot with recently have brought along people with them too and I am fine with it.

May 16 13 05:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 25,878
Dearborn, Michigan, US


AnnieS  wrote:

I know and understand where the photographers are coming from, I have worked with photographers who have told me of their bad experiences with escorts.  When I am booked for a shoot I let the photographer know that I will be bringing an escort along with me and 99% of them don't mind, especially when I tell them of the experiences I have had, we discuss it and we are all on the same page, no problem.  Sometimes my husband will even talk on the phone with them before the shoot.

I don't cringe when someone is accompanying me, I really don't mind, I just feel safer because I know that if a photographer were to try anything I am not alone and my body won't be found months later in a ditch somewhere.

I would just work with another model.
I took a model to my property in northern Michigan last year for a shoot.  She survived!  Her boyfriend picked her up and they went camping.

May 16 13 05:40 am  Link  Quote 
Model
AnnieS
Posts: 34
Bountiful, Utah, US


After all of this I think I will just stop taking an escort with me, as it seems as if people feel I am unprofessional having an escort.  I don't want to quit modeling.
May 16 13 05:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
zaxpix
Posts: 1,988
New Brunswick, New Jersey, US


AnnieS  wrote:
...99% of them don't mind...

See... Now you're starting to shovel it in my direction and I don't like the smell. I let it go when I told you to do what's best for you, but now you're trying to screw my head off and pour it down my neck.

AnnieS  wrote:
especially when I tell them of the experiences I have had

That pile is really getting high and deep...

AnnieS  wrote:
...Sometimes my husband will even talk on the phone with them before the shoot.

Codependents bonding, no doubt.

AnnieS  wrote:
I don't cringe when someone is accompanying me, I really don't mind, I just feel safer because I know that if a photographer were to try anything I am not alone and my body won't be found months later in a ditch somewhere.

Of course you wouldn't cringe. You require an escort. What I said was, that the models with whom I work would cringe at the thought of having to have someone accompany them to a shoot.

In this world, Annie, most people are not interested in what you can't do. People are interested in what you can do.

Again, do what works best for you.

Z.

May 16 13 06:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Michael Fryd
Posts: 3,242
Miami Beach, Florida, US


AnnieS  wrote:
After all of this I think I will just stop taking an escort with me, as it seems as if people feel I am unprofessional having an escort.  I don't want to quit modeling.

Yes.  Taking an escort with you to most jobs is unprofessional.  Should someone who works at MacDonald's bring along an escort for safety?  I suspect working at a fast food restaurant is more dangerous than modeling.

I am still at a loss to understand how an escort provides additional safety to a model.  If a psychopath is willing to kill/harm a model, why do you think they will be unwilling to kill/harm the escort as well?

If a model's escort becomes an unplanned and necessary addition to the crew, this suggests that the shoot was understaffed.  A professional photographer should already have everyone he needs at a shoot.  Additional people should not be needed.

Of course, there are times when an "escort" is appropriate.  I do a lot of maternity photography.  Typically, the mother-to-be is not a professional model, and this is her first nude photo shoot.  In this situation having the husband present can be helpful if it makes the subject more comfortable.   As others have pointed out, in a situation like this, the "escort" will sometimes join in as a subject in the shoot.  When the escort is the father, this can result in additional image sales to the client.

Of course, I don't expect these paying maternity clients to act like professional models.

May 16 13 06:38 am  Link  Quote 
Model
AnnieS
Posts: 34
Bountiful, Utah, US


zaxpix wrote:

AnnieS  wrote:
...99% of them don't mind...

See... Now you're starting to shovel it in my direction and I don't like the smell. I let it go when I told you to do what's best for you, but now you're trying to screw my head off and pour it down my neck.

AnnieS  wrote:
especially when I tell them of the experiences I have had

That pile is really getting high and deep...

AnnieS  wrote:
...Sometimes my husband will even talk on the phone with them before the shoot.

Codependents bonding, no doubt.


Of course you wouldn't cringe. You require an escort. What I said was, that the models with whom I work would cringe at the thought of having to have someone accompany them to a shoot.

In this world, Annie, most people are not interested in what you can't do. People are interested in what you can do.

Again, do what works best for you.

Z.

I'm not piling anything in your direction and I didn't mean to be rude or mean to you, sorry that I said something wrong. 

By you saying "that pile is really getting high and deep..." what exactly do you mean?  If you are saying I am full of BS you have no idea, so don't get personal with that because you have no idea.

May 16 13 06:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PTPhotoUT
Posts: 1,934
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


To all of those who are ripping AnnieS a new one. Please Back off. I shot with her and her llama herder yesterday. She is very professional. Her llama herder helped with gear, lighting, and wardrobe adjustments. It was a very pleasant experience and we got a lot of great pictures.

Keep in mind that she has had problems with less than professional photographers in the past.

While I personally agree that all llama herders interfere with the shoot in one way or another, to me the model's sense of security and well being are more important than any picture I'll ever take. After the first Shoot, they get to know me, and the models rarely, if ever, bring their llama herder on subsequent shoots.
May 16 13 06:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
zaxpix
Posts: 1,988
New Brunswick, New Jersey, US


AnnieS  wrote:
By you saying "that pile is really getting high and deep..." what exactly do you mean?  If you are saying I am full of BS you have no idea, so don't get personal with that because you have no idea.

A colloquialism, saying that it's very hard to believe that 99% of the photographers that you contact you or visa versa, are cool with working with you after knowing that you have, an escort policy, had bad experiences and them talking to your husband beforehand.

With a success rate such as that, there would be no need for this...

AnnieS  wrote:
After all of this I think I will just stop taking an escort with me, as it seems as if people feel I am unprofessional having an escort.  I don't want to quit modeling.

Not my call to tell you how to handle your business. Just do you.

Z.

May 16 13 07:13 am  Link  Quote 
Model
AnnieS
Posts: 34
Bountiful, Utah, US


zaxpix wrote:

A colloquialism, saying that it's very hard to believe that 99% of the photographers that you contact you or visa versa, are cool with working with you after knowing that you have, an escort policy, had bad experiences and them talking to your husband beforehand.

With a success rate such as that, there would be no need for this...


Not my call to tell you how to handle your business. Just do you.

Z.

Sorry I thought you meant something else, I apologize.  They are cool with it (only two photographers on MM has had a problem so we didn't work together) as we send a lot of messages and talk on the phone and I am really upfront, I am not bitchy or anything like that.  Then after we have done the first shoot together I will go on my own with the photographer.  It's only with the first shoot that I take my hubby with me.  Sorry if you thought I was having a go at you, I wasn't.

May 16 13 07:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PTPhotoUT
Posts: 1,934
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


zaxpix wrote:

A colloquialism, saying that it's very hard to believe that 99% of the photographers that you contact you or visa versa, are cool with working with you after knowing that you have, an llama herder policy, had bad experiences and them talking to your husband beforehand.

With a success rate such as that, there would be no need for this...


Not my call to tell you how to handle your business. Just do you.



Z.

You just can't leave it alone can you?

May 16 13 07:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 25,878
Dearborn, Michigan, US


Cherrystone wrote:

Thanks for the reply, I'm $10 richer now. smile

smile

May 16 13 07:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
zaxpix
Posts: 1,988
New Brunswick, New Jersey, US


PTPhotoUT wrote:
To all of those who are ripping AnnieS a new one. Please Back off...

Please. Annie's a big girl and I'm sure that she can take care of herself. She jumped into the discussion with both feet and gave as good as she got. She'll be fine. She doesn't need you to speak for her.

PTPhotoUT wrote:
Keep in mind that she has had problems with less than professional photographers in the past.

In truth, no one really cares, because there's nothing that anyone can do about it other that listen.

PTPhotoUT wrote:
While I personally agree that all escorts interfere with the shoot in one way or another, to me the model's sense of security and well being are more important than any picture I'll ever take.

Then maybe you should quit photography and become a therapist.

Z.

May 16 13 07:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,191
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


PTPhotoUT wrote:
To all of those who are ripping AnnieS a new one. Please Back off. I shot with her and her escort yesterday. She is very professional. Her escort helped with gear, lighting, and wardrobe adjustments. It was a very pleasant experience and we got a lot of great pictures.

Keep in mind that she has had problems with less than professional photographers in the past.

I remember once I got really bad salmonella poisoning from KFC. It was horrible. It took me out of action for at least three days. I guess that means I should have just stopped eating because I had a bad experience in a restaurant, huh?

You know, I'd be willing to bet you that over 90% of photographers who have a zero-tolerance policy on escorts had, at one time, the same attitude toward them that you do. Because, hey, they can hold a reflector or adjust wardrobe, etc. That is until the day that an "escort" draws a gun on them, or the "escort" steals a lens or a prop or a camera body, or the "escort" breaks an expensive piece of equipment, or the "escort" starts looking at their watch every five minutes in front of the model. Then, the open-door policy on escorts suddenly starts to change a bit, especially if it's happened to them more than once.

I'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE on here who has been more tolerant to "escorts" than I used to be before I switched opinions. I used to hold the same naive opinion you do and then realized the err of my ways after losing thousands of dollars in broken equipment because an "escort" was too incompetent to hold a reflector properly or hold a light stand without wreaking havoc on the set. I used to think that "escorts" meant that it would be an extra person to help get the models to the shoot on time, until one such escort caused a shoot for a client to cancel in the studio with hair stylists, rented studio, makeup artists, and myself all waiting while the "escort"/ride, who was giving the two models a ride to the shoot, decided that having a booty-call was higher on the agenda than getting the two girls to their paid gig. I used to think that an "escort" on the set meant the Model would feel more comfortable until I looked at the photos after the shoot and saw that 4 out of 5 shots had the model's eyes wandering to the "escort" off camera, looking for approval. Eventually I just had enough of the stupidity and stopped allowing them to my shoots altogether and ever since I did, I take a sigh of relief knowing that my shoots run smoother, I deal with professionals instead of amateurs, the results I get are way better, and I don't have to deal with my insurance company wondering why the fuck I would ever let an incompetent, "BFF" work on the set of one of my shoots.

Read through any of these train wreck threads long enough and you'll hear a zillion other stories not that much different than the experiences I've had with them. Don't believe me, let me show you how...

http://www.shotbyadam.com/images/escortsearch.jpg

May 16 13 07:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ed Devereaux
Posts: 524
Portland, Oregon, US


The last escort that I had. No help but boy could he pose.

http://www.rosecityphotographer.com/Pregnancy/ChristianaK-Maternity/i-PsRNNrh/0/L/ChristianaK%20Maternity%20Photo-68-L.jpg
May 16 13 07:44 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PTPhotoUT
Posts: 1,934
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


zaxpix wrote:

Then maybe you should quit photography and become a therapist.

Z.

Actually I was thinking of becoming an asshole. Got any pointers? You seem to be pretty good at it.

May 16 13 08:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
glumpy
Posts: 516
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


AnnieS  wrote:
My husband doesn't give them an interrogation over the phone.

So what does he talk to them about and why does he need to?

I can look after myself and I am not desperate.

If you can look after yourself, then you don't need an escort or your husband to talk to the shooters. This statement and the insistence on the need for your husband to be involved in your shoots are at odds with each other.
I never said you were desperate.

You don't have throw mean comments at me because of my opinions.

I didn't. I expressed my own opinions.

I like to keep myself safe because some terrible things have happened to me and yes sometimes I am paranoid, I have ptsd, does that mean I should never model and shut myself away in a locked room?

Honestly, It seems to me that if such terrible things have happened to you when modeling and caused you so much terror and anxiety, I have to wonder why you would keep doing it at all?   There are other things you could do without keeping yourself in a locked room that would obviously hold less fears and perceived danger for you.

Experience also makes me wonder how much you want your husband there and how much he wants to be there. I don't know your husband so am not commenting on his disposition. The fact is experience has demonstrated to me that a lot of male Partner escorts are domineering, controlling jerkoffs that think they own the person.

The last time I allowed an babysitter on a shoot it nearly ended up in fisticuffs because the little twerp was such a jerkoff and not only wouldn't shut up, he wouldn't leave when asked.

Naturally the shoot went down the crapper. That was some years ago and in the last few weeks the client has contacted me about doing another shoot. She divorced the moron and is now trying to basically enjoy all the things his controlling and dominating ruined for her.

One problem that really Kills escorts for me its that I have also seen them do nothing wrong and not interfere in any way at all but the model still gets put off. I remember one woman's husband that I got on real well with. He sat and watched and didn't move or utter a sound. Every 5 min though his wife would be asking what was wrong? He'd say nothing, why? She would say you are looking at me funny. He said I was just thinking how great you look and sexy you are.
In the end the guy himself decided to leave because he could see how paranoid the Mrs was getting and he didn't want her to feel put off in any way with the pics.

At the end of the day it's up to you how you want to go about your modeling affairs. I'm sure you really aren't going to change your mind based on what is said here and that's ok. Trying to justify your decisions however to shooters that have had multiple bad experiences with Escorts isn't going to change their mind either.

I have had people bring escorts whom were fine. I have also had most of the experiences others have here save for equipment being stolen (but other things have gone missing!)

Maybe your husband and some other escorts are fine but I have no way of knowing before hand and as such, I'm not going to take the risk of them stuffing things up and wasting my time.  Other shooters aren't going to risk the bad experiences they have either so at very best, the amount of potential work available to you is going to be very limited. If you are happy with that, no problem.

Just don't try to convince other shooters that having a tag along  because of your fears is going to make for a better shoot because basically no one is going to believe it or change their minds.

May 16 13 11:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AnnieS
Posts: 34
Bountiful, Utah, US


glumpy wrote:

AnnieS  wrote:
My husband doesn't give them an interrogation over the phone.

So what does he talk to them about and why does he need to?

He just says hello and introduces himself so the photographer can get to know him a little

You don't have throw mean comments at me because of my opinions.

I didn't. I expressed my own opinions.

You were mean to me, read the other posts.


Honestly, It seems to me that if such terrible things have happened to you when modeling and caused you so much terror and anxiety, I have to wonder why you would keep doing it at all?   There are other things you could do without keeping yourself in a locked room that would obviously hold less fears and perceived danger for you.

It wasn't when modeling but I have had some creepy things happen on shoots but my fears didn't come from experiences on shoots. You don't understand how hard it has been for me to pull myself up off the ground and gain enough confidence and courage to go and model.

Experience also makes me wonder how much you want your husband there and how much he wants to be there. I don't know your husband so am not commenting on his disposition. The fact is experience has demonstrated to me that a lot of male Partner escorts are domineering, controlling jerkoffs that think they own the person.

Not going to lie that's true, at the moment I am only allowed to model with his permission.  Please don't throw hatred or anything at me for me saying this, it is a different topic and I don't want to go into it.  It is a bit of both, I don't mind him being there but it's not like I have a choice in the matter.


Other shooters aren't going to risk the bad experiences they have either so at very best, the amount of potential work available to you is going to be very limited. If you are happy with that, no problem.

I actually get quite a lot of work offers and all of the photographers I work with really like me because I am always honest and upfront, I don't hold back and I know what I am doing on a shoot.  The only thing I focus on is the camera and the photographer.  It's actually my way of escaping life, sounds crazy but when I get in front of a camera life drifts away. 

Just don't try to convince other shooters that having a tag along  because of your fears is going to make for a better shoot because basically no one is going to believe it or change their minds.

I don't try to convince them at all when I get asked to go on a shoot, I tell them that I will have my husband there and then when we go and shoot they are surprised at how professional I am.  I am allowed to have fears, everyone has fears about something and right now I don't need pulling down.  I am doing my utmost best to face and battle my fears head on. Being told that I am an amateur model, need to be baby sat and unprofessional is just a mean thing to say.  I do my best and that is all I can do.  I could just lock myself in a room but no I go out the house, I model and produce good work.  Judge me all you want.  Also for the record I am also aiming to help others in my modeling work.

May 17 13 12:38 am  Link  Quote 
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