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Model
Nicole Packs
Posts: 257
New York, New York, US


So whats the REAL difference between these two?
Pros and cons to each and how one benefits a model differently from the other.
Originally I didn't know there was a difference but apparently there is.
Can some of you guys help explain please?
Thank you you YOU smile

EDIT:

I'm still sort of confused. I dont understand why some of the answers are gravitating towards actors and personal managers and legitmacy of companies. 
I'm not an actor I'm obv a model in NYC :p
I'm not saying I was approached by a bogus agent.
I'm looking to be agency represented and send out my poloroids for submissioning.
But some agencies calls themselves a "management". I was just wondering if there was some difference between the two if any.
Like is Supreme Model Management and IMG for example.
Or Ikon Model Management vs NeXt agency.
Thanks.
Apr 20 13 02:18 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 35,815
San Francisco, California, US


Nicole Packs  wrote:
So whats the REAL difference between these two?
Pros and cons to each and how one benefits a model differently from the other.
Originally I didn't know there was a difference but apparently there is.
Can some of you guys help explain please?
Thank you you YOU smile

You have raised a question which has no answer since the question you are asking isn't the question you think you are asking.  In NYC, all of the major agencies call themselves management companies.  They do it for a reason.  In NY state, there is no requirement for a modeling agency to have a license, i.e. New York has no modeling agency license.  They do, however, have a license requirement for an employment agency.

The big ramification isthat an employment agency is not allowed to take a fee greater than 10% of the client's earnings.  Of course, that doesn't work for a modeling agency.  They typically take 20% from the model and charge a 20% booking fee to the client.

One of the NY agencies came up with the idea of declaring that they weren't an employment agency, but instead a model management company, not subject to the statute.  Very soon, all of the NYC agencies followed suit and did the same.  Now virtually all of the agencies in NYC claim to be management companies rather than agencies.  There was a war, which has not yet been completely settled.  The NYC companies are still fighting with the state, but by and large, it is being permitted.

Agencies in the rest of the state are subject to being licensed as an employment agency and the 10% fee cap.  In the city though, they are holding their ground and continue to operate that way.

There is a real difference between a manager and an agent.  Some agents offer management services in addition to representation.  There are a lot of companies which are true managers.  In NYC though, it is just semantics to get around the law.  Essentially all of the management companies, such as Ford and Wilhelmina, are just agencies trying to skirt the law.

Apr 20 13 02:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravo Magic Images
Posts: 765
Temple City, California, US


Management agencies control your output of work they set up websites for your Manage your portfolio work add new images simply something you can do your self. An Agency is a company that will give you obtions as to micro manage your portfolio get you the right photographers for the kind of styles your modeing market is for. They send you to job referals they get you  they take a perentage of what you earn.
Apr 20 13 02:28 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 35,815
San Francisco, California, US


Bravo Magic Images wrote:
Management agencies control your output of work they set up websites for your Manage your portfolio work add new images simply something you can do your self. An Agency is a company that will give you obtions as to micro manage your portfolio get you the right photographers for the kind of styles your modeing market is for. They send you to job referals they get you  they take a perentage of what you earn.

I don't believe that is even close to the definition of a manager versus an agent.

Apr 20 13 02:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jean Renard Photography
Posts: 2,050
Los Angeles, California, US


Here it is in a real world scenario. As a photographer or a model you may encounter these people:  Let's us assume these are all serious pros, so this does not turn into a stupid boyfriend as manager bullshit thread.

Managers guide an entire career, for celebrities, musicians, actors and anyone making real money and having a multitude of income producing opportunities, they are invaluable and often the longest relationship a star will have with a representative.
They are the top dog in the food chain other than the star.

Agents are about the deal and are legally the only folks (apart from a lawyer) who can close on a deal for talent in states like California. They are the day to day soldier and invaluable as a point of contact for clients.

Publicists will be protecting the star in media heavy situations.  It is common for publicists to be on set when a celebrity is working with press.

Internationally this changes, but to my mind remains as the best overall structure for celebrities/artists.
Apr 20 13 04:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,774
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Well other then want was mentioned about legal requirements and agencies that manage actors, celebrities, athletes etc.  The big difference is there are no managers for models, only agencies.  Unless that model has developed a level of celebrity they are not needed.  90% of the so called managers are simly slugos
Apr 20 13 04:49 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 35,815
San Francisco, California, US


AJScalzitti wrote:
Well other then want was mentioned about legal requirements and agencies that manage actors, celebrities, athletes etc.  The big difference is there are no managers for models, only agencies.  Unless that model has developed a level of celebrity they are not needed.  90% of the so called managers are simly slugos

Actually, while that might be true in Atlanta, that is definitely untrue in LA or NYC.  All major markets have legitimate managers.  John Fisher just posted about his experience with legitimate managers and fashion models in NYC.

It is important to separate Internet Sluggos from legitimate mainstream management.  I totally agree that the web is full of sluggos, but the mainstream is a different world with different rules.  There are most definitely legitimate managers out there for models.  Most people here just never generally come in contact with them.

Apr 20 13 07:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mike Kelcher
Posts: 12,767
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US


A "manager" or "management company" simply assists, helps, manages, promotes, or whatever else they offer to do. Often a license isn't needed to do this and they generally don't have the same legal obligations that an "agent" or "agency" has.

An "agent" or "agency" is represents their client and they owe their clients "fiduciary duties". Those duties require that they always act in their client's best interest, and the owe the following duties to their clients: loyalty, confidentiality, disclosure, obedience, responsibility and accountability. These duties are required by law. Usually agents and agencies are licensed and regulated by the Commissioner of Commerce for the state(s) they do business in. This is true of insurance "agents/agencies", real estate "agents/agencies", talent "agents/agencies", model "agents/agencies", etc. 

If I'm in business to assist, promote, manage others, I'm a bit more free to act as I wish as a manager or management company. If I'm famous, talented, or need someone to represent me, I want an "agent/agency" because I want their behavior to be in my best interest, and I want them to owe me fiduciary duties, and I'd prefer they be licensed and regulated.

Many states don't distinguish between between the two and cover both by stating something like... "whoever engages in the practice of_______ for another, and for a fee, needs to be licensed."
Apr 20 13 09:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nicole Packs
Posts: 257
New York, New York, US


I'm still sort of confused. I dont understand why some of the answers are gravitating towards actors and personal managers.
I'm obv a model in NYC :p
I'm not saying I was approached by a bogus agent.
I'm looking to be agency represented and send out my poloroids.
But some agencies calls themselves "management". I was just wondering if there was some difference between the two if any.
Like is Supreme Model Management and IMG for example.
Thanks
Apr 20 13 10:15 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 35,815
San Francisco, California, US


Nicole Packs  wrote:
I'm still sort of confused. I dont understand why sone of the answers are gravitating towards actors and personal managers.
I'm obv a model in NYC :p
I'm looking to be agency represented.
But some agencies calls themselves "management". I wS just wondering if there was a difference if any.
Like is Supreme Model Management and IMG for example.
Thanks

That is what I tried to explain to you in my first reply before everyone went off on a tangent.  You are interested in the New York City answer.  In NYC, an agency and a management company are the exact same thing.  I explained the reason why they used that name.

There is a difference between a personal manager and a company that does model management, but let's not confuse it.  IMG calls themself "model management."  They are an agency, plain and simple.

Apr 20 13 10:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Nicole Packs
Posts: 257
New York, New York, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:

That is what I tried to explain to you in my first reply before everyone went off on a tangent.  You are interested in the New York City answer.  In NYC, an agency and a management company are the exact same thing.  I explained the reason why they used that name.

There is a difference between a personal manager and a company that does model management, but let's not confuse it.  IMG calls themself "model management."  They are an agency, plain and simple.

Well that answers that!
Thanks!

Apr 20 13 10:21 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 35,815
San Francisco, California, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:
That is what I tried to explain to you in my first reply before everyone went off on a tangent.  You are interested in the New York City answer.  In NYC, an agency and a management company are the exact same thing.  I explained the reason why they used that name.

There is a difference between a personal manager and a company that does model management, but let's not confuse it.  IMG calls themself "model management."  They are an agency, plain and simple.

Nicole Packs  wrote:
Well that answers that!
Thanks!

You are welcome.

Apr 20 13 10:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Designit - Edward Olson
Posts: 1,635
Eureka, California, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:
That is what I tried to explain to you in my first reply before everyone went off on a tangent.  You are interested in the New York City answer.  In NYC, an agency and a management company are the exact same thing.  I explained the reason why they used that name.

There is a difference between a personal manager and a company that does model management, but let's not confuse it.  IMG calls themself "model management."  They are an agency, plain and simple.

Nicole Packs  wrote:
Well that answers that!
Thanks!

I don't think it actually does.

While the agencies in NYC may call themselves "managers" they are actually agents.

An agent, quiet simply, is a person who operates on your behalf with third parties. They negotiate contracts, for instance, and are able to do so legally.

There are some places where licensing is required to legally be an agent. Some places do not require licensing.

A manager is a person who guides your business and coordinates between your different endeavors.

For example. as a model, you have an agent who gets you work. They seek out jobs for you, and negotiate your compensation.

A manager, on the other hand, does a wide-range of business duties. May run your website, try to get you an better agent, handles your taxes, coordinates between your different endeavors, liaisons between your modeling agency in NYC and your acting agent in LA, seeks out endorsement deals, etc. But when it comes to negotiating and the actual hiring of their client, in most large markets, they have to pass things off to an agent.

The point for models is that, until you get to a certain point of complex business dealings, you pretty much won't need a manager, 'cause they generally don't get you jobs.

Like others have said, there are places where licensing is not required, where the lines are blurred.

Apr 20 13 10:45 pm  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
GPS Studio Services
Posts: 35,815
San Francisco, California, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:
That is what I tried to explain to you in my first reply before everyone went off on a tangent.  You are interested in the New York City answer.  In NYC, an agency and a management company are the exact same thing.  I explained the reason why they used that name.

There is a difference between a personal manager and a company that does model management, but let's not confuse it.  IMG calls themself "model management."  They are an agency, plain and simple.

Nicole Packs  wrote:
Well that answers that!
Thanks!

Designit - Edward Olson wrote:
I don't think it actually does.

While the agencies in NYC may call themselves "managers" they are actually agents.

An agent, quiet simply, is a person who operates on your behalf with third parties. They negotiate contracts, for instance, and are able to do so legally.

There are some places where licensing is required to legally be an agent. Some places do not require licensing.

A manager is a person who guides your business and coordinates between your different endeavors.

For example. as a model, you have an agent who gets you work. They seek out jobs for you, and negotiate your compensation.

A manager, on the other hand, does a wide-range of business duties. May run your website, try to get you an better agent, handles your taxes, coordinates between your different endeavors, liaisons between your modeling agency in NYC and your acting agent in LA, seeks out endorsement deals, etc. But when it comes to negotiating and the actual hiring of their client, in most large markets, they have to pass things off to an agent.

The point for models is that, until you get to a certain point of complex business dealings, you pretty much won't need a manager, 'cause they generally don't get you jobs.

Like others have said, there are places where licensing is not required, where the lines are blurred.

You have written an interesting post, but I think you are off point.  The OP asked specifically about New York City, not about managers in general or the difference between managers and agents.   While there may be validity to what you are saying in other parts of the country, in New York City the answer is what it is.

All of the major agencies in New York City call themselves management company.  That is it, the truth and the end of the discussion.  I explained why.

We can have the conversation as to what an agency is and what a manager is, but not in the context to the OP's question.  She was confused for a reason.  There simply are no major agencies in NYC anymore.  They have all become management companies to skirt the law.

Apr 21 13 07:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,364
Portland, Oregon, US


Nicole Packs  wrote:
So whats the REAL difference between these two?

The Real & Truthful Answer:  I don't know & I have no reason to know.

My Speculation:  I think there is a significant difference.
   Agencies find clients who want to hire models. 
   Managers have models as their clients.

   Models are contract employees of the agencies.
   Managers are contract employees of the model.

But what do I know?

Apr 21 13 08:53 am  Link  Quote 
Digital Artist
Angrand Dezigns
Posts: 65
Raleigh, North Carolina, US


GPS Studio Services wrote:

You have raised a question which has no answer since the question you are asking isn't the question you think you are asking.  In NYC, all of the major agencies call themselves management companies.  They do it for a reason.  In NY state, there is no requirement for a modeling agency to have a license, i.e. New York has no modeling agency license.  They do, however, have a license requirement for an employment agency.

The big ramification isthat an employment agency is not allowed to take a fee greater than 10% of the client's earnings.  Of course, that doesn't work for a modeling agency.  They typically take 20% from the model and charge a 20% booking fee to the client.

One of the NY agencies came up with the idea of declaring that they weren't an employment agency, but instead a model management company, not subject to the statute.  Very soon, all of the NYC agencies followed suit and did the same.  Now virtually all of the agencies in NYC claim to be management companies rather than agencies.  There was a war, which has not yet been completely settled.  The NYC companies are still fighting with the state, but by and large, it is being permitted.

Agencies in the rest of the state are subject to being licensed as an employment agency and the 10% fee cap.  In the city though, they are holding their ground and continue to operate that way.

There is a real difference between a manager and an agent.  Some agents offer management services in addition to representation.  There are a lot of companies which are true managers.  In NYC though, it is just semantics to get around the law.  Essentially all of the management companies, such as Ford and Wilhelmina, are just agencies trying to skirt the law.

Wow you just dropped some serious Knowledge on me. Thank you for that.

Apr 22 13 07:04 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 6,167
New York, New York, US


Nicole Packs  wrote:
. . . . . 
I'm not an actor I'm obv a model in NYC :p
. . . . .

GPS is precisely on target but relative to actor vs. model, something else comes into play-- You're a model in stills, but if the picture moves you're an actor. (Background without lines/principal with lines, but still the generic term "actor" applies)  Doesn't much matter on smaller independent productions that are non-union, but major pictures often employ "model" types for background which they get through the agencies/management companies.  In order to get the better pay rate (basically $150/day for union, roughly double that of a non-union background actor) the agencies usually insist on a "special abilities" contract or a line, whereby the model is employed at union scale or above and is granted a "waiver"  Three of those waivers and you can no longer work non-union on a major film but have to join SAG/AFTRA.  Once you've done that, the agent has to be franchised by SAG/AFTRA or you can no longer work with that agent for film/TV work and can no longer accept non-union film/TV work.

Probably most working models in New York dabble in acting and most working actors dabble in modeling, so the association is not as unreasonable as you might think.  It's worth the effort to be aware of the pluses and minuses of both if you're going to work in any market in which a significant number of major films or TV shows are made, Such as New York, LA, New Orleans, Chicago, South Florida, etc.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Apr 22 13 07:34 am  Link  Quote 
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