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123last
Photographer
Gerard
Posts: 17
Austin, Texas, US


I know it is a constant often discussed topic but I am really looking for advice on how to increase my chances of avoiding the flakey model.

( warning: soapbox rant ) From my end of things, I have a full time job, stay fairly busy with my photography/videography side business and have a family that I love to spend time with.  It is not easy to carve time out to shoot for the, fun, creative, experimental shoots that I do here.  And of course when a model flakes, it is a time I could have booked with someone else that didn't fake (end rant).

I know things comes up, and maybe I've had really bad luck, but it happens way too often.
So really look for advice on how to proceed.
I've avoided putting that soapbox rant above on my profile, but maybe that would scare off some of the models less likely to show up?
Up until now I've only done TF, but do I need to bite the bullet and just pay?
I stay in contact and always confirm a day or two ahead of time, but by then it is usally too late to book a new model, and contact before that always gets "Yes we are on" replies.  Is there a different method for doing this?
Any and all advice is appreciated.  Thanks and sorry to rehash here, but a string of flakes has really left me frustrated.

g.
Apr 21 13 10:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,062
Orlando, Florida, US


offer them something they want.




yes, it's that simple.
Apr 21 13 10:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,491
Imperial, California, US


Never, never, never, book a shoot with someone you have not spoken with by phone!!!! Texts, emails, PM's... are all worthless!!! If they won't talk about the shoot, they won't show up for a shoot. Pre-shoot communication is so important.
Apr 21 13 11:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gerard
Posts: 17
Austin, Texas, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
offer them something they want.




yes, it's that simple.

I know there are much more talented photographers out there, but I assume if they have booked with me, they have looked over my work, agreed on the concept we are shooting, and they have already decided I can offer something they want? If not, why book with someone in the first place?

Apr 21 13 11:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,962
Columbus, Ohio, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
offer them something they want.




yes, it's that simple.

Sorry......kinda, but it doesn't always work that way.

Apr 21 13 11:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rapier993 Photography
Posts: 188
Walled Lake, Michigan, US


Check references.  Network with other photographers in your area and find out who they recommend booking with.  Look for models with a number of shoots under their belt - They tend to be more serious about it.

Paying is another possibility but (in my experience) not a guarantee - if you're going to pay still look for models that take their modeling (and reputation) seriously.
Apr 21 13 11:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,062
Orlando, Florida, US


Cherrystone wrote:

Good Egg Productions wrote:
offer them something they want.




yes, it's that simple.

Sorry......kinda, but it doesn't always work that way.

I think that it does.
If we're talking a working professional model, she wants to be paid.  So pay her rate, and the likelihood that she will flake is very low.
If we're talking trade shooting, then offering a model something so interesting or rare that she can't just get it everywhere else and she will show up.  That could be an amazing secret location, an incredible idea, a piece of wardrobe, or even just a place to stay while she's traveling through on a tour.

Look.  It's really not that difficult.  If you're going to just offer them 10 finished images of your shoot, that might not be enough if that shoot is just some fashion look against a paper drop.  However, if you make it clear to the model that it's going to be a team of people, makeup, hair and wardrobe to put her in a couture gown in a mansion with a lighting tech for publication submission, a model might consider that a higher priority than having to walk her dog.

Also, getting the details to the model early and having a working phone number for her helps.

Apr 21 13 11:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarrylPascoePhotography
Posts: 451
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Good Egg Productions wrote:
offer them something they want.




yes, it's that simple.

Gotta disagree with you that its as simple as....give them what they want.

Why would they agree to shoot in the first place if pictures with you isn't what they want.

I agree somewhat that if they want to bad enough they will not flake but I would add its much more about communication then just the simple want to do a shoot. Find models that act more professionally in their communication and attitude towards their modelling with you, they tend to take it more seriously and genuinely want to be doing this. Some from MM on both sides of the camera are here just to say yea I'm a *insert model, photographer, or whatever here* but don't really care to go out and produce work as much as claim they do, and its usually not very difficult to figure out who these are based on the communication you have with them before the shoot day.

Apr 21 13 11:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,062
Orlando, Florida, US


Gerard  wrote:

I know there are much more talented photographers out there, but I assume if they have booked with me, they have looked over my work, agreed on the concept we are shooting, and they have already decided I can offer something they want? If not, why book with someone in the first place?

The minute you stop asking yourself why people do what they do, the more peaceful you will be.

Apr 21 13 11:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,062
Orlando, Florida, US


DarrylPascoePhotography wrote:

Gotta disagree with you that its as simple as....give them what they want.

Why would they agree to shoot in the first place if pictures with you isn't what they want.

I agree somewhat that if they want to bad enough they will not flake but I would add its much more about communication then just the simple want to do a shoot. Find models that act more professionally in their communication and attitude towards their modelling with you, they tend to take it more seriously and genuinely want to be doing this. Some from MM on both sides of the camera are here just to say yea I'm a *insert model, photographer, or whatever here* but don't really care to go out and produce work as much as claim they do, and its usually not very difficult to figure out who these are based on the communication you have with them before the shoot day.

Yes, I oversimplified it.  But at the end of the day, isn't that why we ALL do what we do?  Because we want to enough.

So I stand by my opinion that if you offer something that a person wants enough, they will do it.

Why do you go to your job?

Apr 21 13 11:13 am  Link  Quote 
Model
The Original Sin
Posts: 13,894
Louisville, Kentucky, US


Russ Turner Photography wrote:
Check references.  Network with other photographers in your area and find out who they recommend booking with.  Look for models with a number of shoots under their belt - They tend to be more serious about it.

Paying is another possibility but (in my experience) not a guarantee - if you're going to pay still look for models that take their modeling (and reputation) seriously.

This is a pretty key point.  Don't ask the models for references, go to their portfolio, find the photographers they've worked with and ask them how the model was to work with.

Network the forums- there's a lot of models who frequent the forums (or used to be, I've been kind of in and out for the past 2 years) that it's obvious that they work hard and are quality employees for a shoot.

If you really want to work with someone who is in, say... Michigan- find out if they'd be willing to trade for travel.  You can often get a round trip plane ticket for what a 2-3 hour shoot would cost you.  If you can put the model up for a day or two so she can find other work in your market, and get a half or full day of shooting with her in return for the investment, you can quickly build up a book full of exceptional models.

Apr 21 13 11:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,062
Orlando, Florida, US


Let me just give an example.

For a project, I put out a casting on here and on facebook.  The project was for nude images in a mud pit.  For trade.  Already, that seems like something most models wouldn't be interested in.  "so, I have to be naked... outside... flop around in mud... naked... just for some trade photos of it.??"

I booked 8 girls for the shoot.  Three girls I had never worked with before.  8 girls showed up on time and completed the shoot.  Every one of them (except one) totally loved the shoot and 4 of them I had to tell to get out of the set because we were running long.

So the point really is... no matter what your shoot, you have to find the models who are right for it.  Those that want to do it enough to meet your requirements and compensation.

This is actually typical of ALL of the theme shoots I've organized over the last 3 years.  Including having people show up to the beach (an hour from the city) at 6:30am to shoot sunrise.

Offer them something they want enough, and they will not flake.
Apr 21 13 11:20 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Amber Dawn - Colorado
Posts: 6,043
Castle Rock, Colorado, US


I really don't think you can avoid Flakes, It's gonna happen! As often as you hear about it on here.
Apr 21 13 11:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gerard
Posts: 17
Austin, Texas, US


Your description of the Mud shoot, doesn't sound too different from the way the majority of us probably book our models.  And once again, if they have gone through the back and forth, agreed on a concept and then booked, aren't they already thinking you are giving them something they want?

I've had two people message me with the basic premise that flaking on MM is the rule rather than the exception.  I've not quite found that to be the case, but it is getting close to that.
Apr 21 13 11:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Head & Shoulders?

Yes, there has to be one in every crowd.

Honestly, the only way to truly guarantee that you're going to have a Zero Flake Rate is to only hire Agency models. There might be the rare occasion where they do flake, but for an Agency model to flake there are repercussions.

On the internet, you can do things to minimize (as others have mentioned), but you will never eliminate the risk because there are no repercussions for online models shooting with faceless online photographers.
Apr 21 13 11:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark in MTL
Posts: 1,045
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


Flakes are everywhere, in all industries and other aspects of life.

Deal only with people who show seriousness, enthusiasm, and who return phone calls in a timely fashion.
Apr 21 13 11:54 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,819
Seattle, Washington, US


George Ruge wrote:
Never, never, never, book a shoot with someone you have not spoken with by phone!!!! Texts, emails, PM's... are all worthless!!! If they won't talk about the shoot, they won't show up for a shoot. Pre-shoot communication is so important.

^^^ False.  Most of my shoots are booked without ever talking on the phone, and I've *never* flaked.  A lot of very successful models and photographers (who aren't flakes) rarely have phone conversations with anyone.

Apr 21 13 11:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,174
Salem, Oregon, US


YMMV but money has always worked for me. beyond that i think it helps to get good and more importantly to be shooting something that is of interest to the model and to be known and have a brand so there's a positive association for the model having worked with you. and i think some models are just flaky like those rolls you bake in a tube from the grocery store.

network with local photographers and see if they can recommend some reliable models. try to get involved in group shoots (like meetup.com) or just with other photographers. find someone who can get models to show up and cozy up to them.

i find that models can usually use good headshots so maybe get good at shooting those. one of the latest trends is flowers in the hair.

some may disagree but i think that having good photoshop skills (especially for studio work) matters.

for trade shoots i have more  luck elsewhere. omp, CL, costco.
Apr 21 13 11:54 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarrylPascoePhotography
Posts: 451
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Good Egg Productions wrote:
Offer them something they want enough, and they will not flake.

Great statement to make and to a point sure, but again really oversimplifies the situation....can you guarantee when they say they want it, and agree to it.....that its "enough"?

Did you in your situation book the 8 girls expecting them all to show? or did you book 8 in the hopes that at least * number of girls show.

That is what the OP is asking about..those who claim to want it, it all gets arranged, and then they do not show up. They wanted it enough...right up until the day or whatever? He offered it, they claimed they wanted it enough to book the shoot, and did flake.

You cannot avoid flakes 100%, but by working with llamas who seem to be serious about what they do and in watching for that in the communication process you can avoid many of those that are flakes.

Apr 21 13 11:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,062
Orlando, Florida, US


Gerard  wrote:
Your description of the Mud shoot, doesn't sound too different from the way the majority of us probably book our models.  And once again, if they have gone through the back and forth, agreed on a concept and then booked, aren't they already thinking you are giving them something they want?

I've had two people message me with the basic premise that flaking on MM is the rule rather than the exception.  I've not quite found that to be the case, but it is getting close to that.

You need to understand that MM is not what it used to be.  There used to be a better vetting process for models AND photographers to join the site.  Since they were purchased by IB, they have become a revenue generator, and it's become the facebook of modeling.

I believe that there is a huge influx of people who really aren't that serious or interested in following through with things.  I know from my own casting calls that I used to get scores of interested people, and now I only get a dozen or two.  What that tells me is that the serious models are not using the site like they once did and the thousands of new "models" simply don't know how to use it.  Or, they create a profile and quickly forget about it.

Many of the people who have been around for a while had a fear that this would follow in OMP's footsteps, and it truly feels like that fear is becoming a reality.

More of my work and interested models are finding me and scheduling through Facebook than here in the last 12 months.

Apr 21 13 11:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
T-D-L
Posts: 10,105
Los Angeles, California, US


The best advice is to start looking elsewhere, the culture here doesn't necessarily breed professionalism or reliability.  BUT, for most MM is all that is available to them.  In that case I'd say just learn to trust your instincts and learn how to read people during your communication with them.  Slow responses to read messages probably indicate a flake.  If you have the time to log in and read a msg, you can take 2 minutes out of your day to reply "Yes, that sounds great" or the likes.  Rescheduling more than once probably means their real life is too hectic to be reliable as well.  Generally anyone who doesn't seem to have their shit in order and doesn't communicate clearly and effectively will probably end up failing in some way or another with regards to shooting.
Apr 21 13 12:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


MelissaAnn  wrote:
^^^ False.  Most of my shoots are booked without ever talking on the phone, and I've *never* flaked.  A lot of very successful llamas and photographers (who aren't flakes) rarely have phone conversations with anyone.

Yes, but you're not a flake. The question was "how to avoid" flakes. Some llamas, including yourself, wouldn't flake regardless of the form of communication, compensation, etc.

I think George was adding something that could help minimize the risk of flaking, or at least recognize a possible red flag.

And even though you've worked a lot of shoots that didn't include a phone conversation, I have to believe if the photographer/client required that you would oblige. I can't see you ever ignoring a correspondence.

Apr 21 13 12:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,819
Seattle, Washington, US


M Pandolfo Photography wrote:
Yes, but you're not a flake. The question was "how to avoid" flakes. Some models, including yourself, wouldn't flake regardless of the form of communication, compensation, etc.

I think George was adding something that could help minimize the risk of flaking, or at least recognize a possible red flag.

And even though you've worked a lot of shoots that didn't include a phone conversation, I have to believe if the photographer/client required that you would oblige. I can't see you ever ignoring a correspondence.

Yes, and my point is that if you assume a model won't show up simply because she won't talk on the phone, you're making a mistake of grand proportions, and will be missing out on the opportunity to work with many very responsible and reputable models.

Apr 21 13 12:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,062
Orlando, Florida, US


DarrylPascoePhotography wrote:

Great statement to make and to a point sure, but again really oversimplifies the situation....can you guarantee when they say they want it, and agree to it.....that its "enough"?

Did you in your situation book the 8 girls expecting them all to show? or did you book 8 in the hopes that at least * number of girls show.

That is what the OP is asking about..those who claim to want it, it all gets arranged, and then they do not show up. They wanted it enough...right up until the day or whatever? He offered it, they claimed they wanted it enough to book the shoot, and did flake.

You cannot avoid flakes 100%, but by working with models who seem to be serious about what they do and in watching for that in the communication process you can avoid many of those that are flakes.

To answer your question, I did not expect all 8 to show, but I was prepared for it, and they did.  I did not purposely overbook.

While it's true that you can't avoid flakes 100%, there are lots of threads that list tips you can follow to drastically reduce them.  There's also the definition of flake that's an argument.  To me, a flake isn't a cancel that morning or the day before.  A flake is confirming at 10am for a 2pm shoot and then NEVER hearing from the model after that.

The best thing I do to avoid it is to confirm a shoot with a week to go if the shoot was scheduled more than 2 weeks out, then confirm 48 hours away, then confirm the day of.  If I don't get a confirmation, I assume the shoot is off.  I make sure to get at least two ways to contact a model, one being their phone number.  I cover my bases.

But I encourage the OP to research the literally hundreds of other flake threads on MM for more tips for success.

Apr 21 13 12:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,962
Columbus, Ohio, US


Gerard  wrote:
I know it is a constant often discussed topic but I am really looking for advice on how to increase my chances of avoiding the flakey model.

By the popular definition of flakes according to MM, I've had 3. My definition is a "tad" broader than no call/no show, which would bring me up to 6-7, since 2001.

I will tell you this....if you consistently get flakes over an extended period of time, it ain't them....it's you. You're being blind to what's happening in front of you.

It can be lousy choices, it could be a field of red flags waving in front of you that you're not seeing.

It could be something you're doing yourself.

I'll give you one example of what I do. Rarely do I work with 18-20 yr olds, with a heavy emphasis of rare in the first two years in that age group, when it comes to folks off MM.

Apr 21 13 12:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
robert b mitchell
Posts: 1,213
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


With TF I think your chances with flakes greatly increases especially with more classy and experienced models cause there is no $$$ incendtive. Still it does not stop flaking all together. I use the pay, unique locations, and hopefully well exited photos. Those edited ones I give my utmost attention too. Hope that helps.
Apr 21 13 12:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
robert b mitchell
Posts: 1,213
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Choose your models wisely. If you see a red flag then consider another "model".
Apr 21 13 12:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gerard
Posts: 17
Austin, Texas, US


"I will tell you this....if you consistently get flakes over an extended period of time, it ain't them....it's you. You're being blind to what's happening in front of you.
It can be lousy choices, it could be a field of red flags waving in front of you that you're not seeing.
It could be something you're doing yourself.
I'll give you one example of what I do. Rarely do I work with 18-20 yr olds, with a heavy emphasis of rare in the first two years in that age group, when it comes to folks off MM."

I guess that is more of what I'm asking for, what are the red flags? And I know we are painting with broad strokes here, but some of my most enthusiastic llamas have been young, at that age group is useful to me since I can use them for my Senior Shoot portfolio.

Apr 21 13 12:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark in MTL
Posts: 1,045
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


MelissaAnn  wrote:

^^^ False.  Most of my shoots are booked without ever talking on the phone, and I've *never* flaked.  A lot of very successful models and photographers (who aren't flakes) rarely have phone conversations with anyone.

You may be the exception.

The people (in general, not just models/photographer) who flake on me the most are the ones who text but never pick up the phone.

Apr 21 13 12:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 35,962
Columbus, Ohio, US


Gerard wrote:
I guess that is more of what I'm asking for, what are the red flags? And I know we are painting with broad strokes here, but some of my most enthusiastic models have been young, at that age group is useful to me since I can use them for my Senior Shoot portfolio.

I've shot a lot of seniors, juniors & kids......not off MM though. If you're shooting seniors, why do you not use the choice ones you get, rather than trying to get them off here?

I gave you one legit example, which I know damn well has lessened my flake chronicles over the years. If they're not flakes, the drama factor increases proportionately as age decreases. I don't have much use for that either.
But you discounted it.

Common sense & logic, along with a dose of psychological awareness should be your guide to flakes. I could write a book, but I'm not about to do that on here.

Shitty, half baked communication. Ask 5 questions, and get half an answer in an incomplete sentence.

An overabundance of enthusiasm...."OMG, I cannot wait to shoot, can we do this day after tomorrow", while meanwhile they're ignoring your questions too.

They ask YOU the same question 27 times. Ever get the feeling your talking to a wall?

No email addy or cell number after I ask twice....and I will only ask twice. Asking twice is a flag in itself.

Ad infinitum, ad naseum.

Apr 21 13 12:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,819
Seattle, Washington, US


Red flags=

1.) If the models you're choosing are very young, or new to modeling (often equals lack of confidence, or not serious about modeling) they are more likely to flake.

2.) If you're only offering TF, the model is more likely to flake (no financial incentive for her). That's not to say that paid shoots never flake, you have to take other red flags into consideration.

3.) If you're not consistently checking references on models without established reputations, you're more likely to get flakes.

4.) If you're not offering images that will clearly benefit the models port, she's more likely to flake. This often includes models that you've been in contact with for a long time- ones who finally reluctantly agreed to shoot with you after your continued stream of correspondence. Don't work with models who don't show a clear interest from the start in collaborating with you.

5.) If the models you're choosing are not local (and you're only offering TF), they need to travel more than 30 mins to get to you, or they don't have their own transportation, they're more likely to flake. Offer to pick up the model if it's a long trip. This will eliminate any transportation excuses the model might have, like car trouble, missed the bus, etc.

6.) Pay attention to communication. Does the model return messages promptly, or do days or weeks elapse between messages? Does the model pay attention to detail? When you send her a message with several questions or suggestions, does she address them in her next message? Can she put together a thoughtful paragraph, and give more than a two word answer? Does the model mention kids, boyfriends, car trouble, or provide other details that aren't important to the shoot?  If there are red flags in her communication, and she clearly can't be bothered to pay attention to details, she's more likely to flake.

7.) If the bulk of the responsibility for a TF shoot falls on the model, she's more likely to flake.  If she has to travel more than an hour round trip (and you don't offer to help), bring a list of 50 specific items to the shoot, do her own hair and makeup, pay for her own gas, etc. Offer to help out in any way you can, it will cut back on the models who flake due to feeling overwhelmed.

8.) The *best* way to eliminate flaking is to do better work.  If you talk to some of the best photographers on MM, they'll tell you they rarely (if ever) get flakes, even for TF shoots. Make images that model's would kill to have in their portfolios.

There are many more, but hopefully this helps.

Be honest with yourself, trust your gut, and don't ignore red flags with the hope that everything will work out just fine.....because it usually doesn't.
Apr 21 13 12:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bravo Magic Images
Posts: 765
Temple City, California, US


Flaky models only flake when they dont get their ways.
Apr 21 13 12:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,818
Portland, Oregon, US


1)  Check references.

2)  Do better at checking references -- specifically, get to know your local photographers & models, and let them know you.  Be a positive resource for your local community.  Share references.  Share resources.  Share recommendation.  Host get togethers.  Undertake group projects.  Share locations.  Etc.  Once they get to know you, they'll be more likely to share reference information with you.

3)  Work with experienced models who have a known track record.  And yes, that sometimes means paying them.

4)  Work with traveling models who are dependent upon their good reputation to continue their modeling career.  And yes, that sometimes means paying them.

5)  Don't invest a lot of time, money, or energy on new-to-you models -- your first session with a new-to-you model should simply be a "get acquainted" session.  Do your more elaborate sessions with models who have a good track record with you.

6)  Be the best & most influential photographer in your area.

7)  Be more polite & respectful than the model expects.  (Sadly, this is exceedingly easy to do).

8)  Communicate clearly & succinctly.

9)  Don't try to be the model's best friend.  Don't flirt.  Don't try to be clever.  Don't be overly enthusiastic.  Be business like.  You are looking to engage their services.  Do not frighten the model away by your attitude.
Apr 21 13 12:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


I don't think it's possible to completely avoid flakes online especially when they are the one that contact you in the first place.
Apr 21 13 01:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,819
Seattle, Washington, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
1)  Check references.

2)  Do better at checking references -- specifically, get to know your local photographers & models, and let them know you.  Be a positive resource for your local community.  Share references.  Share resources.  Share recommendation.  Host get togethers.  Undertake group projects.  Share locations.  Etc.  Once they get to know you, they'll be more likely to share reference information with you.

3)  Work with experienced models who have a known track record.  And yes, that sometimes means paying them.

4)  Work with traveling models who are dependent upon their good reputation to continue their modeling career.  And yes, that sometimes means paying them.

5)  Don't invest a lot of time, money, or energy on new-to-you models -- your first session with a new-to-you model should simply be a "get acquainted" session.  Do your more elaborate sessions with models who have a good track record with you.

6)  Be the best & most influential photographer in your area.

7)  Be more polite & respectful than the model expects.  (Sadly, this is exceedingly easy to do).

8)  Communicate clearly & succinctly.

9)  Don't try to be the model's best friend.  Don't flirt.  Don't try to be clever.  Don't be overly enthusiastic.  Be business like.  You are looking to engage their services.  Do not frighten the model away by your attitude.

^^^ Also very good advice.

Apr 21 13 01:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
picturephoto
Posts: 8,687
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


George Ruge wrote:
Never, never, never, book a shoot with someone you have not spoken with by phone!!!! Texts, emails, PM's... are all worthless!!! If they won't talk about the shoot, they won't show up for a shoot. Pre-shoot communication is so important.

What nonsense.  I've shot with dozens of people I never spoke with beforehand, and I've never once had a no-show.  Some of the most professionally-minded traveling models I've met don't like to talk on the phone because 1) it can get expensive, and 2) they prefer to avoid the pre-shoot prattle that many hobbyist photographers are prone to.  They don't need your life's story.

Seems to me that the best way to avoid flakes is to follow MelissaAnn's and Looknsee's excellent advice.

Apr 21 13 01:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SensualThemes
Posts: 3,042
Swoyersville, Pennsylvania, US


Head & shoulders works well

oh
wait

other kind of flakes.

oops
Apr 21 13 01:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,387
Beckley, West Virginia, US


George Ruge wrote:
Never, never, never, book a shoot with someone you have not spoken with by phone!!!! Texts, emails, PM's... are all worthless!!! If they won't talk about the shoot, they won't show up for a shoot. Pre-shoot communication is so important.

I don't know about that.  Most people don't like talking on the phone these days.  They prefer a paper trail of conversations which makes total sense.

Apr 21 13 02:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Amber Dawn - Colorado
Posts: 6,043
Castle Rock, Colorado, US


Also llamas who say they don't use this site much and say contact them through facebook/twitter I'd stay away from as well they never seem like serious llamas to me.
Apr 21 13 02:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Amber Dawn - Colorado
Posts: 6,043
Castle Rock, Colorado, US


George Ruge wrote:
Never, never, never, book a shoot with someone you have not spoken with by phone!!!! Texts, emails, PM's... are all worthless!!! If they won't talk about the shoot, they won't show up for a shoot. Pre-shoot communication is so important.

I also have to disagree! I've never spoken on the phone and have shown to ALL of my shoots.

Apr 21 13 02:24 pm  Link  Quote 
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