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first12
Photographer
cineselectric salon
Posts: 746
Rome, Lazio, Italy


AJScalzitti wrote:
..or overpowered the sun a bit with flash.

Where might you place the flash (or reflector), in relation to the sun,camera and  model (i.e. distance, height, angle, etc.) ?

Apr 22 13 10:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Photo
Posts: 4,144
New York, New York, US


Ben Cliffe wrote:
Select the time of day where the light balance between subject and sky are in harmoney.

Or expose for the sky and add light to the subject for other times where the light balance isn't right.

+1

Apr 22 13 11:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,113
Tampa, Florida, US


Biggs Photography wrote:

Why?

Because he doesn't have access to, or own, strobes and/or reflectors would be one reason. Let's assume he doesn't for the sake of his thread.

Apr 22 13 11:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,849
Albany, New York, US


M K wrote:
When I say cloudy day, I mean a cloud or too hiding the sun, not a heavy cloudy day. Yes the sky was blue and the day was a bit cloudy

Other than being aware of your surroundings, I'd say figure out one batch of settings while its behind the clouds (they act as a natural softbox) & another batch for when it is not. & be VERY aware of when its in transition by making a note of what the shadows are doing.

Apr 22 13 11:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Phantasmal Images
Posts: 565
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Digitoxin wrote:
OP, if you are able to get some details in the sky (not a complete blowout), you can always develop your raw file twice -- once for the model, etc and again just for the sky.  Pull the exposure back on the sky, bump the saturation, highlights, whites, etc. 

Then merge the two files in PS.

If you can't use a flash or reflector for some reason (though I can't really fathom why you couldn't), then this is probably the best option.

Apr 22 13 12:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Phantasmal Images
Posts: 565
Boston, Massachusetts, US


M Pandolfo Photography wrote:

Because he doesn't have access to, or own, strobes and/or reflectors would be one reason. Let's assume he doesn't for the sake of his thread.

But you don't really need a fancy purpose made reflector. A simple piece of white foam board, a car windshield sun shade, or even someone wearing a white t shirt, can be used as a reflector. Personally I use a car windshield sun shade as a reflector. It was around $5 at walmart, and has a silver reflective side, and a light grey side.

Apr 22 13 12:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Klung1 Photographic
Posts: 153
New York, New York, US


I shot this against a window in a hotel room using a speedlight to bring up the light on the model.
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/29982577 18+
Apr 22 13 02:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,202
Atlanta, Georgia, US


cineselectric salon wrote:

Where might you place the flash (or reflector), in relation to the sun,camera and  model (i.e. distance, height, angle, etc.) ?

The flash becomes you main source and the sun is secondary, so light the model however you would like.  Normally for me it's a beauty dish high and camera right or left with the sun opposite, more like it's providing a rim or backlight.   It does take a good bit of flash power down here in the south US.

Apr 22 13 02:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
photoguy35
Posts: 905
Goodyear, Arizona, US


As others have said, see if there is anything at the location to use as a reflector (sand, concrete floor, wall of a building, etc).  Wait for the sun to go behind a cloud to lower the scene contrast.  Wear a white shirt.
Apr 22 13 07:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MichaelClements
Posts: 1,724
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia


MichaelClements wrote:
This may be a silly question but why is non natural light 'forbidden'?
Mark Laubenheimer wrote:
you are from Australia, the OP is from Greece.

You're quite right. The land of sun, palms and as many strobes as you like, oh and home to a lot of deadly creatures too including koalas. Count yourself lucky you don't have koalas in Seattle!


http://www.michaelclements.com.au/

Apr 22 13 07:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,023
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Most of the workable solutions are here. I'd rate a circular polarizing filter, fill light (from flash or a reflector) and double processing in ACR as the best - at least for the way I work.

The one I didn't see is to shoot near sunrise or sunset. That will give you a more colorful sky and less contrasty light on the model. If you use fill flash, you won't need as much power. Try it with a circular polarizer too - especially if there's water in the background.

Don't overdo the fill flash - *especially* around sunrise or sunset.
Apr 22 13 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
joeyk
Posts: 14,572
Seminole, Florida, US


Do you prefer sunset with no modifier?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/2373914283_beacf3d5af.jpg?v=0

Or sunrise with no modifier?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2034/2369297712_1982477d02.jpg?v=0
Apr 22 13 07:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Charlie-CNP
Posts: 2,556
New York, New York, US


+1 for a GND filter. Time of day is also going to be your friend to get skies right a lot of times.
Apr 22 13 08:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


Leo Howard wrote:
Do you mean something like these?

http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/091120/13/4b070d5bc4624_m.jpg


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/090420/20/49ed38fa39ae0_m.jpg


http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/090420/19/49ed2e910e82d_m.jpg

I assume these have flash. I want only natural light.

Apr 23 13 12:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
OTSOG
Posts: 141
Benicia, California, US


M K wrote:
is there a way to fake GND filters? DIY tip?

ND gels behind the subject.

Apr 23 13 12:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


Art of the nude wrote:

This is 6 pm in May, camera facing straight east.  We were inside a parking garage, and there were no reflectors or anything.  Minimal post; it was a pretty impromptu "test" shoot, basically.  I may well have adjusted contrast and such, but nothing like a composite.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4055/4632525638_cd5616bf3c_z.jpg

For what it's worth, the EXIF
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16842686@N … 7347652449

yes, what I mean is to geta lightened subject but without burning out the sky like here, but retaining its blue colour..

Apr 23 13 12:15 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


MichaelClements wrote:
This may be a silly question but why is non natural light 'forbidden'?

Because for a model portfolio a set of pics should show the model in natural light

Apr 23 13 12:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


A-M-P wrote:
Circular polarizer helps deepen the sky.  Also do not shoot with sun behind subject.

Anyhow this was natural light with just a reflector
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/72834_10201019861847942_917593733_n.jpg

yeap, this is what I mean.. Where was the sun in this case? (even though I m not sure I can use a reflector in my shooting position)

Apr 23 13 12:20 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


M Pandolfo Photography wrote:

Because he doesn't have access to, or own, strobes and/or reflectors would be one reason. Let's assume he doesn't for the sake of his thread.

I have all these. As I said before, It is a tough spot for using a reflector and I need to shoot in natural light. Anyway, I gues there is not much to do..

Apr 23 13 12:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


Digitoxin wrote:
OP, if you are able to get some details in the sky (not a complete blowout), you can always develop your raw file twice -- once for the model, etc and again just for the sky.  Pull the exposure back on the sky, bump the saturation, highlights, whites, etc. 

Then merge the two files in PS.

I have to try this! Thanks

Apr 23 13 12:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


Pictus wrote:
Or replace the sky smile
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4686872/Parthiv_mehta.gif

I have to try this. The pic is going to be between bars and ladders like yours. Which method should I use for masking which is going to be hard?? hmm

Apr 23 13 12:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ben Cliffe
Posts: 259
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


Camerosity wrote:
Most of the workable solutions are here. I'd rate a circular polarizing filter, fill light (from flash or a reflector) and double processing in ACR as the best - at least for the way I work.

The one I didn't see is to shoot near sunrise or sunset. That will give you a more colorful sky and less contrasty light on the model. If you use fill flash, you won't need as much power. Try it with a circular polarizer too - especially if there's water in the background.

Don't overdo the fill flash - *especially* around sunrise or sunset.

I tried to cover that ground in my post, though from a high level.

Ben Cliffe wrote:
Select the time of day where the light balance between subject and sky are in harmoney.

Or expose for the sky and add light to the subject for other times where the light balance isn't right.

Usually the time of day may be around dusk or dawn, hard to say without knowing the location the OP wants to use.  It seems to be pretty specific as the OP stated not enough room for a reflector.

Personally I have done a 5 minute exposure at midnight I had a nice balance between sky and subject.

Cheers
Ben

Apr 23 13 05:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 17,911
Orlando, Florida, US


M K wrote:
yeap, this is what I mean.. Where was the sun in this case? (even though I m not sure I can use a reflector in my shooting position)

The sun was behind me.

Apr 23 13 05:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Seoul Photography
Posts: 389
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)


M K wrote:
I have to try this. The pic is going to be between bars and ladders like yours. Which method should I use for masking which is going to be hard?? hmm

You have to try that? Which clearly has the models skin highly photoshopped, but then you go on about having her look "natural" for her portfolio?
Unless they are stock natural headshots for references, any other images for the portfolio can generally be whatever looks best from the work they've done. People expect models to be presenting photoshopped images, and a flash is hardly "unnatural".

Apr 23 13 06:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
A-M-P
Posts: 17,911
Orlando, Florida, US


MC Seoul Photography wrote:
You have to try that? Which clearly has the models skin highly photoshopped, but then you go on about having her look "natural" for her portfolio?
Unless they are stock natural headshots for references, any other images for the portfolio can generally be whatever looks best from the work they've done. People expect models to be presenting photoshopped images, and a flash is hardly "unnatural".

He wants to try the sky replacement  he is not asking about the skin. sigh

Apr 23 13 06:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,023
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


M K wrote:
I have to try this. The pic is going to be between bars and ladders like yours. Which method should I use for masking which is going to be hard?? hmm
MC Seoul Photography wrote:
You have to try that? Which clearly has the models skin highly photoshopped, but then you go on about having her look "natural" for her portfolio?
Unless they are stock natural headshots for references, any other images for the portfolio can generally be whatever looks best from the work they've done. People expect models to be presenting photoshopped images, and a flash is hardly "unnatural".

Do you mean hard? Or sharpened?

Presumably the lighting on the model and the "bars and ladders" is going to be the same.


If you want the bars and ladders to be more hard (contrasty), two methods:

1) If you are shooting in RAW, double process the photo - once for the model and once for the rest of the photo - with different contrasts. Save both files and open the one that’s adjusted for the model in Photoshop, duplicate it using Ctrl - or Cmd-J and name it Model. Then create a new, blank layer (Alt-Ctrl-Shift-N or Opt-Cmd-Shift-N. Then copy the other file, name it Bars and Ladders and paste it in the new, blank layer of the original file and name that layer.

Then create a black layer mask on that layer and save the file. Then paint in the model by using a white brush on the black layer.

2) If you're not shooting in RAW, just duplicate the background layer and name the layer Model). Then create a Brightness-Contrast adjustment layer, increase the contrast and add a white mask to that layer. Then paint the model out using a black brush


If you mean Sharpness, after you've done everything else you're gone to do to the file, save the file. Then combine everything into a new top layer using Cmd/Ctrl-Opt/Alt-Shift-N, then Cmd/Ctrl-Opt/Alt-Shift-E. Duplicate that layer and sharpen the duplicate layer and sharpen for the areas you want sharpest. Create a white layer mask and paint out model with a black brush. If you want to sharpen the model's hair, eyes, lips, clothing, etc. - but not as much as the bars and ladders - paint those out with a lower opacity.

Apr 23 13 04:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MC Seoul Photography
Posts: 389
Seoul, Seoul, Korea (South)


A-M-P wrote:

He wants to try the sky replacement  he is not asking about the skin. sigh

either way he is manipulating the image to create a different look. a model framed in blue and one framed in white give totally different impressions. even if the model is completely the same.

Apr 23 13 05:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Barnes Photography
Posts: 202
Palmerston North, Manawatu-Wanganui, New Zealand


MichaelClements wrote:
Count yourself lucky you don't have koalas in Seattle!

I once saw one eat a man whole. Vicious.

Apr 23 13 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
richardnyc
Posts: 41
New York, New York, US


Yes I must admit I cheat.... I strip in blue skies and clouds in post.. I have a whole library of skies....

richard
>
https://www.facebook.com/FashionPhotogr … hardWarren
Apr 23 13 10:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Camerosity
Posts: 5,023
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


richardnyc wrote:
Yes I must admit I cheat.... I strip in blue skies and clouds in post.. I have a whole library of skies....

richard
>
https://www.facebook.com/FashionPhotogr … hardWarren

I know a few photographers who collect photos of skies and clouds - especially the dark, brooding type - and just go through their "sky folder" when they need one.

Apr 23 13 11:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


MC Seoul Photography wrote:

You have to try that? Which clearly has the models skin highly photoshopped, but then you go on about having her look "natural" for her portfolio?
Unless they are stock natural headshots for references, any other images for the portfolio can generally be whatever looks best from the work they've done. People expect models to be presenting photoshopped images, and a flash is hardly "unnatural".

We are talking about the sky not the skin. I said natural light (natural skin is a must). Model agencies require that you have a set of pics in natural light NO flashes or strobes

Apr 24 13 02:06 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


richardnyc wrote:
Yes I must admit I cheat.... I strip in blue skies and clouds in post.. I have a whole library of skies....

richard
>
https://www.facebook.com/FashionPhotogr … hardWarren

+1, many high fashion photographers in greece as well..

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&newwi … ,s:0,i:341

Apr 24 13 02:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Digitoxin
Posts: 13,332
Houston, Texas, US


A-M-P wrote:

The sun was behind me.

And, judging from the shadows cast by her arm and chin, the sun also seems to be fairly high in the sky perhaps mid-morning or early afternoon?

OP:  as you study pictures, look at the shadows.... Really study them the shadows... their shape depth, length, and direction.  They can help you form a hypothesis as to how something was lit.

Apr 24 13 03:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


Thank you all!!
Apr 24 13 03:56 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GCobb Photography
Posts: 15,885
Southaven, Mississippi, US


I've been practicing this a lot lately.  I use a ND2 or CP and an off camera flash.  I like how it has been turning out.
Apr 24 13 04:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Loki Studio
Posts: 2,877
Royal Oak, Michigan, US


M K wrote:

Because for a model portfolio a set of pics should show the model in natural light

1) I see many model portfolios of top agency models in Greece that use both natural and studio light
2) Many natural light model photos use scrims, shade, or diffused strobes to look good. 
3) Many natural light model photos are done early in the morning or close to sunset when the sunlight is not as strong.

Apr 24 13 07:20 am  Link  Quote 
Retoucher
Pictus
Posts: 957
Teresópolis, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil


M K wrote:

I have to try this. The pic is going to be between bars and ladders like yours. Which method should I use for masking which is going to be hard?? hmm

Not easy...
Here you will see masking techniques, but most of the time I use Vertus and Remask

My tip for you when take the photos is:
-Keep the sky behind model head, so you be able to extract the hair, a tree or anything else make too hard or impossible to extract the hair.
-Use smaller apertures like f/11, because blurred stuff is VERY hard to deal.

Apr 24 13 08:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hugo Lopez Photography
Posts: 239
Miami, Florida, US


I guess I just got lucky...

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/277870_478894745471531_851052856_o.jpg

http://www.hugolopezphoto.com/wp-content/themes/photonexus/phpThumb.php?src=http://www.hugolopezphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/4.jpg&h=550&w=730&zc=0&q=100
Apr 24 13 10:00 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M K
Posts: 251
Athens, Attikí, Greece


Pictus wrote:

Not easy...
Here you will see masking techniques, but most of the time I use Vertus and Remask

My tip for you when take the photos is:
-Keep the sky behind model head, so you be able to extract the hair, a tree or anything else make too hard or impossible to extract the hair.
-Use smaller apertures like f/11, because blurred stuff is VERY hard to deal.

Thank you!

Apr 28 13 01:50 pm  Link  Quote 
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