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first12
Photographer
Mystic Flow Studios
Posts: 401
Hilo, Hawaii, US


I have had the opposite experience –ONCE!– and won't let that happen again. I've learned now to never give the model anything I wouldn't want to see represent me.

In posting anything here, if the model is on MM, I ask them before putting in the credit line. If they aren't on MM, and if the photo is revealing, I also ask them if they want to be credited or not before posting. Seems simple enough, and it not only seems fair to give them the choice, but also prevents any backlash if they didn't happen to like the photo.

On a related tangent here: Some models doing nude work in my market have stated in their profiles that they *require* a CD of ALL shots taken before they leave the studio! Needless to say, I would never work with them, and have sent one or two some incredulous PMs and an explanation of why that would never happen. Actually, I might do it ONLY if I had first made the images completely unusable with a huge watermark/logo right down the middle of each one.
Apr 27 13 02:22 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Amber Dawn - Colorado
Posts: 6,057
Castle Rock, Colorado, US


What did you expect from a Amateur Photographer? You can always say something, up to you of course.
Apr 27 13 10:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jim McSmith
Posts: 757
Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom


I guess the message here is don't deal with amateurs unless they have a professional outlook.
Apr 27 13 11:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Harris Photography
Posts: 494
Edison, New Jersey, US


Maybe I'm unusual but after a session, usually me paying them, I'll post the selected and edited images in a place that is not public but can be shared with the model. I tell them that if there are any they would rather I not post publicly I will honor that. I have also removed credit from photographs later at a models request if she feels it doesn't flatter her. I feel I have nothing to gain by insisting that I use a photograph a model dislikes.

OBTW, on MM the person credited can remove that link themselves.
Apr 27 13 12:44 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Marin Photography wrote:

Ridiculous? Depends on who you work with doesn't it? What's ridiculous is people who shoot thousands of photos like a machine gun and praying for a good shot. I don't do that and I stop after each set and let the model choose what she likes. Most models don't have thousands of poses so I don't get why people do that!

When it's a trade shoot we both have a say.  If she disapproves she has a chance to say something. Also, what's ridiculous is not asking to see them. We aren't all that controlling crazy types hahaha...If I am paying I don't bother doing that so it doesn't matter.

I only shoot about 20 shots per look or less!

Agree completely.  I can only afford to do trade shoots, so I'd feel like I was cheating the model if I didn't let her look through them afterwards and got rid of any that she felt made her look bad (I also do a lot of nudes so I let them look through them in case there's a shot that they may feel is too explicit), and the models are usually more than happy to do it.  I've only had two shoots where the model didn't want to look through the photos, one it was simply because we had worked together 4 times already and she trusted my taste by then; the other we just hated each other, the shoot was terrible, and she couldn't wait to leave and I couldn't wait for her to leave. 

And I also don't get the whole rapid-fire technique of photography.  In fact, it seems kind of like cheating.  I mean, if you stand there and take multiple rapid shots over and over again until you've accumulated over a thousand, of course some of them are gonna turn out decent.  A damn machine can do that.

Apr 28 13 03:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
The Original Sin
Posts: 13,894
Louisville, Kentucky, US


Does YOUR portfolio suck?

If not- it's highly unlikely that a bad photo on someone else's portfolio is going to come back badly on you.  I know there's more than a few out there of me, but I don't stress about them, because they're not in my portfolio, which is where people looking to hire or trade with ME will be looking for evidence of my skills.
Apr 28 13 03:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Meghan Hale
Posts: 335
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


Had this happen to me. I hated the picture, and didn't even want my name on it.
Apr 28 13 03:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
R Byron Johnson
Posts: 767
Norman, Oklahoma, US


Even the most attractive people in the world aren't immune from having an unflattering photo taken of them.  No one with half a brain is gonna assume that you must be a bad model just because of one bad photo.
Apr 28 13 04:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1k-words-photograpy
Posts: 335
Leesburg, Virginia, US


To the original poster:

You have to keep in mind when you step in front of the camera that photography is about that photographers vision. That shot, as horrible as it is, may represent his vision accurately.

I have shot a lot of MM llamas and you can go through and ask them and they will tell that in planning for TF I am very collaborative, probably overly so. I want to hear what you want to do and I do my level best to accommodate noninsane requests. I believe the purpose of TF should be that every one gets something they want and can use. I think out of 40 TF sessions there is maybe one llama that wouldn't happily shoot with me again.

However everything from the first shot to what is published is my vision. After we start shooting I completely and totally own the process. So its possible that I select pictures that are just different than the llama would like.

Possibly I'm just lucky or I have a little skill but its probably because I plan enough time in my shoots to get the exact picture I want. So I can tell you that the shots I publish are the shots I wanted to get or are very close to them. So maybe as much as you don't like the shot thats the exact shot he wanted. I have a difficult time believing that any photographer, even an amateur, skips over a shot he thinks is better for a shot that he thinks is worse to use in his own port.

Just my two cents.
Apr 28 13 04:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
1k-words-photograpy
Posts: 335
Leesburg, Virginia, US


Also I never examine the portfolios of people who shot a model to consider her for TF of paid work. I look through her book digital or print. And for TF I frequently select models who have shots I consider less than stellar. I'm not looking at lighting or composition or even posing when I select TF models, I'm really looking for "it."

Is there something in the photo other than a pretty girl standing there getting her picture taken? Do I believe she has the ability to be in the moment I'm trying to capture, whatever that moment is? Thats what matters to me more than how good or bad her actual pictures are.

Besides I think any good shooter can look at your picture and tell you are not that big or that tall or that small etc. We know a bad photo when we see it.
Apr 28 13 04:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark Fix
Posts: 271
Englewood, Colorado, US


Light and Lens Studio wrote:

Well, I'm not a model, but I have dealt with a lot of models and looked at hundreds and hundreds more portfolios.  There is an old saying: "If only we could see ourselves as others see us".   

Your feelings about the referenced photo are obviously subjective.  Someone else might look at the photo and think it was lovely.  I have seen lots and lots of ports where models have posted terrible images of themselves in their portfolios and not infrequently have selected their worst image for their avatar. 

The point of all this is that why don't you either post the pic here in the forum or have a trusted friend look at it and see if the friend or the forum participants agree with your assessment.  Out of focus, poorly lit, poorly posed photographs are pretty commonly found here in ports.  Not my style, definitely, but some folks seem to like them.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to approach the photographer in a non-confrontational way and explain your discomfort with the photo he is displaying.  You might even suggest a photo off of the reel that you particularly do like.

Best of luck.

+1

"The way you see it, the way I see it, and the way it really is!.  Perspective!

Have to agree though, out of focus (not soft or diffused focus) may be accidental or intentional.   As said above, depends on the style and what goals or guidelines surfaced (if any) in the pre-session discussions. 

Build on your experiences and share your views with your photographer(s) so both of you may evolve.

Best wishes in your modeling endeavors.

Mark

Apr 28 13 04:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Neil Templar
Posts: 389
Glastonbury, England, United Kingdom


I always ask the models approval before posting individual images.
Despite what I might consider to be a good image if the model concerned disapproves it's still her/his body that's 'on display' therefore they should have the final say.
Unfortunately, not everyone thinks that way...
Apr 28 13 05:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
robert b mitchell
Posts: 1,295
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Just did a shoot with a model and one of her favorites was one that was bad in so many respects. Models and photogs are different. Although some photogs wouldn't know a poor shot if it slapped them in the face!
Apr 28 13 06:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 2,307
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


A bad photo can damage your reputation only if it can be linked back to you, so ask the photographer to remove attribution (if it has been given) and, failing that, remove it from your list of credited photos.

A few models have made truly horrible revisions of some of my photos (I generally allow them to try their hand if they have the good manners to ask beforehand), so I remove them from my credited photos. Same principle - no real harm done.
May 01 13 06:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Tori Long
Posts: 934
Louisville, Kentucky, US


Tiffany Bond wrote:
Have you ever had a photo shoot with a more or less amateur photographer that used possibly one of the worst pictures of you in the entire reel to put on his/her public profile? I'm talking the lighting is bad, the angle is unflattering, the focus is off... just... nothing good could come of this photo.

Do you say anything? Is it rude? I wonder if photographers ever have the opposite problem. Then again, they usually hold the reins as far as what pictures they edit/keep and which ones they don't. So if they don't like a photo, they have control over getting rid of it.

Just wondering if this is common, or if I'm just being overly-self-critical?

haha, yes.  It happened when I was starting out.  It was weird too because he actually gave me some fairly good edited shots, but he wanted to use this one that was awful of me and not even a good photo on his part.  Horrible angle weird lighting etc.. maybe he thought it was artsy?  Just remove the credit from your profile and hope that he gets through the phase of loving the bad photo quickly.

May 01 13 06:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Demeter Photography
Posts: 544
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


Tiffany Bond wrote:
Have you ever had a photo shoot with a more or less amateur photographer that used possibly one of the worst pictures of you in the entire reel to put on his/her public profile? I'm talking the lighting is bad, the angle is unflattering, the focus is off... just... nothing good could come of this photo.

Do you say anything? Is it rude? I wonder if photographers ever have the opposite problem. Then again, they usually hold the reins as far as what pictures they edit/keep and which ones they don't. So if they don't like a photo, they have control over getting rid of it.

Just wondering if this is common, or if I'm just being overly-self-critical?

Not sure why this is an issue.  If I was going to be booking you, I'd be looking at YOUR portfolio, not his.

May 01 13 06:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
- Aina -
Posts: 731
Redlands, California, US


While I have had that experience, I never said anything simply because they have their right to post what they want and may have something else in mind. Who knows. From a professional standpoint, I hide the credited pictures that really do me NO favors so the public won't see them through my portfolio.
May 02 13 06:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
wendy haigh
Posts: 517
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


I had a model ask me once to take down a picture of her as she didn't like her expression in it.  I loved the expression, but I took it down.  She was polite about it, and she loved the other shots.  I have photographed her since.  To me it's the way you go about it, communication is the key!!  If you don't like a picture, then yes you have a right to say something.  The photographer may own the copyright, but you own your image!!
May 02 13 07:04 am  Link  Quote 
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