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Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,825
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Suppose you are car shopping (used) and you find the ideal car at the ideal price and it's in pristine condition ... but it has leather seats. Do you buy it anyway?
Apr 28 13 09:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 20,882
Portland, Oregon, US


Good question.  Dunno.

>>>>>  Tangent Alert  >>>>>
I take long walks downtown.  On one of my routes, I walk past a business selling furs.  Every once in a while, there is a half-hearted protest outside, you know, "Fur is Murder" crowd.  I always shake my head at them because many of them are protesting fur while wearing leather (belts, shoes, handbags, jackets, backpacks, etc.).  I also wonder whether all of these people are vegetarians.
Apr 29 13 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Stanley L Moore
Posts: 1,518
Houston, Texas, US


The leather seats are from animals of that are already di
ead. You did not kill them or call them to be killed. Buy the car.
Apr 29 13 09:04 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Koryn
Posts: 35,832
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I will not buy new fur, leather or animal products, but I do not personally believe in wasting useable items that are still in good shape. The animal whose skin made that jacket died for absolutely nothing. Don't add insult to injury by throwing it away before it's been worn totally out. In other words, I will wear it if someone else is throwing it out, or it's free and donated. For example, the only belt I own is leather. I found it thrown over a chair in a bar two years ago. Someone forgot it, and it was a perfectly good belt.

No, i would not feel inclined to buy a car with leather seats, unless it was used and all i could find that fit my budget.
Apr 29 13 10:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Damon Banner
Posts: 85,249
Hayward, California, US


Stanley L Moore wrote:
The leather seats are from animals of that are already di
ead. You did not kill them or call them to be killed. Buy the car.

there are some vegans who take that stance. 

Others, wouldn't buy the car.  Depends on their personal stance and how militant they are.

Apr 29 13 10:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8,587
Pensacola, Florida, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
Suppose you are car shopping (used) and you find the ideal car at the ideal price and it's in pristine condition ... but it has leather seats. Do you buy it anyway?

Yeah.
It's used; I'm not adding to the supply and demand of leather or encouraging more leather to be "made" in buying it.

Apr 29 13 04:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eastfist
Posts: 3,506
Green Bay, Wisconsin, US


I think it depends on how hardcore vegan they are, assuming there is a strong correlation that vegans are against leather (the killing of animals for their skin) and not just because they don't eat meat. If I was a vegan and a practical person and needed the car to go somewhere (instead of walking), I'd get the car.
Apr 29 13 04:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,649
New York, New York, US


Die-hard vegans would not buy the car or date anyone that ate meat.
Apr 29 13 04:59 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Wynd Mulysa
Posts: 8,587
Pensacola, Florida, US


Jules NYC wrote:
Die-hard vegans would not buy the car or date anyone that ate meat.

It would be nice to hear from an actual vegan who would not buy the car.  otherwise it's kind of just other people gossiping about what vegans would or wouldn't do.

Apr 29 13 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,649
New York, New York, US


Wynd Mulysa wrote:
It would be nice to hear from an actual vegan who would not buy the car.  otherwise it's kind of just other people gossiping about what vegans would or wouldn't do.

I became a vegetarian for a die-hard vegan and know these answers.
I eat fish now and can't speak for anyone, but knowing the man 4 years, I can state what I did.

He is only one man but a GREAT activist.
One if the reasons I admired him.
Living his creed and all.


I'll exit the thread.

Apr 29 13 05:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,825
Vineland, New Jersey, US


I know a man who I always thought was vegan. His son told me today that he doesn't consider himself vegan because he does consume a small amount of dairy products (usually milk or cheese).  The son said he wouldn't buy a new car with leather or buy/wear leather or any other material that came from an animal's skin ... but if the car were used and priced right, he'd live with the leather.

  This hasn't happened with him because he tends to shop for the cheapest cars (those cars that sold for the lowest prices when new). Most cars below a certain price point weren't/aren't available from the factory with leather interiors.

  I still think it's a fascinating discussion. It's not meant to put anyone down for the decisions they make. I never thought it would come down to how hardcore a person is for a particular thing, but that makes it more fascinating to me.
Apr 29 13 05:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
scrymettet
Posts: 31,730
Quebec, Quebec, Canada


Lovely Day Media wrote:
Suppose you are car shopping (used) and you find the ideal car at the ideal price and it's in pristine condition ... but it has leather seats. Do you buy it anyway?

Why do you want to eat a car ?

Apr 29 13 06:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,825
Vineland, New Jersey, US


scrymettet wrote:
Why do you want to eat a car ?

I'm not a vegan and it's not about eating a car. Most people I know refer to a person as vegan if they want absolutely nothing to do with any product that has ties to animals. In other words, if a particular brand of cosmetics is made using animal fats, they won't use those cosmetics. They aren't eating the cosmetics. They are consuming them, though, if they use them.

  In this case, the car isn't new, they didn't order it that way and they probably aren't shopping for a car specifically that has leather seats.  One just happens to show up on their radar.

Apr 29 13 06:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carle Photography
Posts: 9,227
Oakland, California, US


Jules NYC wrote:
Die-hard vegans would not buy the car or date anyone that ate meat.

The Die hard Vegan YOU know would not buy the car and dictated YOUR meals.
Not all Vegan people are the same.

vegans are about at diverse as most other groups of people.
They are vegan for many reasons and have differing rules of what sort of vegan lifestyle they choose to live.

Apr 29 13 07:00 pm  Link  Quote 
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Model
Koryn
Posts: 35,832
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Jules NYC wrote:
Die-hard vegans would not buy the car or date anyone that ate meat.
Death of Field wrote:
The Die hard Vegan YOU know would not buy the car and dictated YOUR meals.
Not all Vegan people are the same.

vegans are about at diverse as most other groups of people.
They are vegan for many reasons and have differing rules of what sort of vegan lifestyle they choose to live.

I know one girl who will not date anyone who eats/uses animal products.

What that really boils down to, and I think she's starting to realize it, is that she will be single pretty much forever, because only 2% of the world's population is vegan.

If you even randomly meet another vegan, it's pretty awesome, let alone meet one who is romantically compatible with you.

I think it's silly. Sometimes, people eating meat grosses me out a little, but the fact is I'm the minority, and I live in a world of meat-eaters. It's none of my business what other people do, and I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life, so it's my problem, and not anyone else's.

Apr 29 13 07:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lohkee
Posts: 11,937
Maricopa, Arizona, US


I would have thought it would be practically **impossible** to not consume animal products in some way, be it cosmetics, medicine, etc, etc, etc.
Apr 29 13 09:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Diaz
Posts: 62,343
Danbury, Connecticut, US


Lohkee wrote:
I would have thought it would be practically **impossible** to not consume animal products in some way, be it cosmetics, medicine, etc, etc, etc.

It is, especially considering how many plants are to some degree animal products.  Many plants, particularly vegetables we use as food, require animals to pollinate them, and many of those animals are domesticated and live entirely in human captivity.

Apr 30 13 09:05 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,649
New York, New York, US


Death of Field wrote:

The Die hard Vegan YOU know would not buy the car and dictated YOUR meals.
Not all Vegan people are the same.

vegans are about at diverse as most other groups of people.
They are vegan for many reasons and have differing rules of what sort of vegan lifestyle they choose to live.

No one dictates anything... anything I do.

I chose to become a vegetarian because he challenged me to.
So I did.

He never forced anything from me.
I read so much up on it, he helped my health.

I never met anyone that cared as much for animals than he.
I liked that.

I questioned if he loved animals more than people.
Still don't know the answer to that.

Yes, not all vegans are like that.

...and just for the record, I'd date a meat-eater.
I respect people that eat organic/farm raised beef/chicken.

I appreciate people that take care of their health but not militant about having wine or enjoying life.

It's part of my culture.

Apr 30 13 12:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MoRina
Posts: 5,633
Fort Lauderdale, Florida, US


I used to sell luxury cars.  There were several times when people asked for cloth interiors (or BMW's "leatherette") citing they were vegans, or had animal rights reasons.  I can tell you that none of these people passed up a car they really wanted even though it came with leather.
Apr 30 13 01:28 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Danger Ninja Production
Posts: 22,238
Portland, Oregon, US


Jules NYC wrote:
Die-hard vegans would not buy the car or date anyone that ate meat.

not true

wife's as die-hard of a vegan as it gets, i'm not, she doesn't care, it's her own lifestyle that she adheres to herself, without forcing me to, and in return i completely support her lifetstyle

and to answer the thread question, most vegans who avoid animal products in clothing, other materials, etc as well as dietary would probably avoid buying a car with all-leather interior

Apr 30 13 02:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


Koryn Locke wrote:
The animal whose skin made that jacket died for absolutely nothing.

This isn't necessarily true.  Most leather hides come from cows that were slaughtered for meat.  Same with alligators, ostriches, etc.

Apr 30 13 02:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Danger Ninja Production
Posts: 22,238
Portland, Oregon, US


C h a r l e s  D wrote:

This isn't necessarily true.  Most leather hides come from cows that were slaughtered for meat.  Same with alligators, ostriches, etc.

the entire concept of veganism though is that an animal dying solely for the purpose of supplying human needs is dying for no worthy reason

Apr 30 13 02:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


Danger Ninja Production wrote:
the entire concept of veganism though is that an animal dying solely for the purpose of supplying human needs is dying for no worthy reason

With that logic, the animal is born and alive for no worthy reason, too.
And, that's not what she said.  She said, "The animal whose skin made that jacket died for absolutely nothing." 
The animal died for meat.  Leather is a by product in this case.  I can't think of any cows that are bred and raised exclusively for their leather.

Apr 30 13 02:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Danger Ninja Production
Posts: 22,238
Portland, Oregon, US


C h a r l e s  D wrote:

With that logic, the animal is born and alive for no worthy reason, too.

only from a human's perspective

Apr 30 13 02:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eyesso
Posts: 671
Ormond Beach, Florida, US


Well there's the animal bit.....and honestly I've passed up used cars that had leather seats because I don't want to contribute unnecessarily to the killing of living things....

However....on a more practical note.  Leather seats make your ass sweat, why would you want that??  At least fabric breathes a little.

What about vinyl....when did vinyl stop being an option for people who like butt sweat?
Apr 30 13 02:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


Danger Ninja Production wrote:
only from a human's perspective

Since humans breed and raise them, leather is a happy by product.

Apr 30 13 02:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eyesso
Posts: 671
Ormond Beach, Florida, US


What exactly are the advantages of a leather seat that justify a taking cow's life?   

The meat has no nutritional value, besides too much protein and cholesterol.....the fact is, people who eat meat as a staple don't live as long as vegetarian/vegans.
Apr 30 13 03:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


Eyesso wrote:
What exactly are the advantages of a leather seat that justify a taking cow's life?

Again, leather is a by product of the meat industry.  The cows life was taken for its meat.  Would you like us to throw the leather away?  We're still going to eat the meat.

Several in here have mentioned they would buy the car if used.  The cow is already "used" for its meat. 

Eyesso wrote:
The meat has no nutritional value, ...

Absurdly untrue. 

Eyesso wrote:
...besides too much...cholesterol....

somewhat true.

Apr 30 13 03:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eyesso
Posts: 671
Ormond Beach, Florida, US


I should have clarified.....meat has no nutritional value that cannot be obtained in a healthier way from plant based foods.   So it itself it has nothing to offer that isn't attached to negative health consequences when overeaten, and most Americans overeat meat.
Apr 30 13 03:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


Eyesso wrote:
I should have clarified.....meat has no nutritional value that cannot be obtained in a healthier way from plant based foods.   So it itself it has nothing to offer that isn't attached to negative health consequences when overeaten, and most Americans overeat meat.

Fantastic!  Well done.  Thank you.

Apr 30 13 03:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eyesso
Posts: 671
Ormond Beach, Florida, US


Maybe a more important question.......why do some vegans smoke?   

Save the cows, but kill the person walking behind you.....be consistent man!  smile
Apr 30 13 03:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
C h a r l e s D
Posts: 9,304
Los Angeles, California, US


Eyesso wrote:
Maybe a more important question.......why do some vegans smoke?   

Save the cows, but kill the person walking behind you.....be consistent man!  smile

My roommate is this person.  Vegan smoker.

Apr 30 13 03:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Eyesso
Posts: 671
Ormond Beach, Florida, US


Save the cells.
Apr 30 13 03:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Schlake
Posts: 2,244
Socorro, New Mexico, US


I prefer the idea of freeganism over veganism (but I'm neither).  You seldom find cars in dumpsters with the title, but I think the basic premise that you didn't directly support the death of the animal still applies buying used.
Apr 30 13 06:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 15,649
New York, New York, US


Danger Ninja Production wrote:

not true

wife's as die-hard of a vegan as it gets, i'm not, she doesn't care, it's her own lifestyle that she adheres to herself, without forcing me to, and in return i completely support her lifetstyle

and to answer the thread question, most vegans who avoid animal products in clothing, other materials, etc as well as dietary would probably avoid buying a car with all-leather interior

She cares more about you than an animal then.
That is a good thing.

Apr 30 13 07:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
IrisSwope
Posts: 14,803
Dallas, Texas, US


Lovely Day Media wrote:
Suppose you are car shopping (used) and you find the ideal car at the ideal price and it's in pristine condition ... but it has leather seats. Do you buy it anyway?

I feel like second hand leather doesn't really count.

Apr 30 13 07:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
IrisSwope
Posts: 14,803
Dallas, Texas, US


C h a r l e s  D wrote:
Again, leather is a by product of the meat industry.  The cows life was taken for its meat.  Would you like us to throw the leather away?  We're still going to eat the meat.

Several in here have mentioned they would buy the car if used.  The cow is already "used" for its meat.

are you sure? I don't believe that leather is a by product, I believe it is a separate product from separate sources.

Apr 30 13 07:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Clarence Zimmerman
Posts: 4,048
Orlando, Florida, US


Peta just bought shares in Seaworld...  jus sayin...
Apr 30 13 07:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Lovely Day Media
Posts: 3,825
Vineland, New Jersey, US


Eyesso wrote:
Maybe a more important question.......why do some vegans smoke?   

Save the cows, but kill the person walking behind you.....be consistent man!  smile

LOL!

Apr 30 13 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SAND DIAL
Posts: 5,965
Santa Monica, California, US


Wynd Mulysa wrote:

It would be nice to hear from an actual vegan who would not buy the car.  otherwise it's kind of just other people gossiping about what vegans would or wouldn't do.

Ex Vegan here, 40+ years Vegetarian.

I was never much for the 'wont touch leather' thing.

What about animal testing for cosmetics and meds?
A billion? rodents a year killed.
Do vegans use cosmetics and RX?

Apr 30 13 09:15 pm  Link  Quote 
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