This thread was locked on 2013-05-03 07:39:08
Model
Laura UnBound
Posts: 28745
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Andialu wrote:
My opinion is, I don't care. Those rules are outdated. Outdated why? Simply because someone decided they wanted to start carrying the flag in a way that it was originally not to be carried?
Photographer
Andialu
Posts: 14029
San Pedro, California, US
Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 8866
Antioch, California, US
Peter Claver wrote:
I'm not stopping them.
Merely pointing out the silliness of the way they think.
[...] Just out of curiosity, what makes your opinion any less silly than theirs?
You are welcome to your opinion, but you will have to forgive me if I dont give it any more weight, or judge it any more valid than someone with a different opinion.
Photographer
Peter Claver
Posts: 27130
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
rfordphotos wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what makes your opinion any less silly than theirs?
You are welcome to your opinion, but you will have to forgive me if I dont give it any more weight, or judge it any more valid than someone with a different opinion. In this particular instance (the flag etiquette thing) it's because they (not necessarily the OP.. haven't heard back from him) will get all huffy about people making art with a flag or draping it over a naked model.. but show them a bunch of patriots "disrespecting the flag" and they clam up. "not important" or "that's not what I meant".
If someone is gonna be all about following the rules... then it's silly when they say "well.. they aren't doing something I disagree with so they're ok".
I have some silly opinions of my own. But in this case.. my opinion is not.
Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 8866
Antioch, California, US
Peter Claver wrote:
I have some silly opinions of my own. But in this case.. my opinion is not. ....in your opinion.
You insist on judging the opinion of others as "silly" because in your opinion their logic is flawed. Maybe your logic is flawed? Believe it or not, you are not the final arbiter of fact or truth or anything else Peter----you are just another soul just like the rest of us with your own opinion.
Its worth exactly what we all paid for it---just like my opinion, or anyone's.
Photographer
Click Hamilton
Posts: 36555
San Diego, California, US
I like going to yard sales.
Last year I was in Point Loma and met a guy in his late 20's or early 30's.
He was selling the personal effects of his brother who was killed in the line of duty as a soldier. I asked him if he was sure he wanted to sell these things, but it was pretty obvious he was dealing with memories that were haunting him. With tears in his eyes, he gave me his brothers flag and the shirt of one of his special forces combat uniforms.
The shirt is folded on my shelf, and I folded his flag into a triangle as I learned when I was 11 years old in the Boy Scouts. The flag rests on top of the shirt. The name over the breast pocket of the shirt is Hernandez.
I feel appreciation for the soldier who died, and also sadness for the feelings of the brother he left behind. Things like this pang my heart. I think I was doing his brother a favor by taking it away, with respect for what it was.
---
Maybe one warm night this summer I'll go down to a beautiful place in Mission Bay, light a bonfire, cook a hearty steak, drink a nice bottle of red wine, smoke a slow, fat cigar, then throw these things onto my makeshift funeral pyre and bid this soldier I never knew a fond adieu.
Maybe I'll throw my trench coat in with it. That sounds typical of something I might do.
It's good to reflect, and ponder our priorities in life.
Feel free to call me a flag burner if you wish.
Photographer
Peter Claver
Posts: 27130
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
rfordphotos wrote:
....in your opinion.
You insist on judging the opinion of others as "silly" because in your opinion their logic is flawed. Maybe your logic is flawed? Believe it or not, you are not the final arbiter of fact or truth or anything else Peter----you are just another soul just like the rest of us with your own opinion.
Its worth exactly what we all paid for it---just like my opinion, or anyone's. Don't be ridiculous.
If A says "you've gotta follow the rules" (and even gives a link to the entire list of rules) and when B points to someone not following the rules and then A say "oh.. I didn't mean that *they* had to follow the rules.. only the people who I don't like or who don't follow the specific rules that are important to me".. then A is rightly called a hypocrite.
Photographer
rfordphotos
Posts: 8866
Antioch, California, US
Peter Claver wrote:
Don't be ridiculous.
If A says "you've gotta follow the rules" (and even gives a link to the entire list of rules) and when B points to someone not following the rules and then A say "oh.. I didn't mean that *they* had to follow the rules.. only the people who I don't like or who don't follow the specific rules that are important to me".. then A is rightly called a hypocrite. Definition of OPINION
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
b : a generally held view
3
a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert
b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
in YOUR opinion, they are being hypocrites, in their opinion, they are simply "qualifying" when their rules apply.
either way, BOTH are opinions, not facts. Your insistence to judge the opinion of someone you choose not to agree with seems a bit intolerant, a bit rigid in your thinking.... but then, that's just MY opinion.
Photographer
Michael Broughton
Posts: 2288
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Ed Woodson Photography wrote:
granduer! ...is not how you spell that word. if you're going to run around questioning people's intelligence and poking fun at how they write, at least have the foresight to spell check your insults.
Photographer
Michael Broughton
Posts: 2288
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
T A Y L O R wrote:
Hahahahahahahahaha.
This has won my internets for the day.
Hey bro, if you want to show off your intellect you might want to utilize capitalization when appropriate. silly me. i thought my intelligence was determined by the inner workings of my mind, not by my willingness to hold down the shift key for the first letter of a sentence.
Photographer
tonyfromsyracuse
Posts: 374
Syracuse, New York, US
europeans and candians dont get the flag thing. they dont know what its like to live in a place that inspires them to feel any sort of unity. their places for all intent and purpose might just as well be jump off points for someplace else they would rather be.
but in the end, I suspect whats really at the bottom of it, is a sort of low self esteem. they think they are the enlightened ones and americans are all stupid and they...should be more near the top of the shelf....but they arent, and this descrepancy just drives them insane.
so they strike back in the only way they can.in petty school yard ways. by dumping on the other guy for loving where he lives. so all things americana are attacked...like the flag.
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
tonyfromsyracuse wrote:
europeans and candians dont get the flag thing. they dont know what its like to live in a place that inspires them to feel any sort of unity. their places for all intent and purpose might just as well be jump off points for someplace else they would rather be.
but in the end, I suspect whats really at the bottom of it, is a sort of low self esteem. they think they are the enlightened ones and americans are all stupid and they...should be more near the top of the shelf....but they arent, and this descrepancy just drives them insane. Quoted for irony.
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com
Photographer
tonyfromsyracuse
Posts: 374
Syracuse, New York, US
no, europeans just go insane when it comes to any sort of display of patriotism in the US. all you need to do is go on huffingtonpost. also, I remember when we got osama and there were crowds in the street chanting USA and people raising the flag, the european media and posters went batshit crazy. oh! look at this!can you believe these people?! talking about how sick it was we were celebrating someones death. thats because they dont know what its like to live in a place they cared about. oh they might like their football teams, but thats about it.
Photographer
Peter Claver
Posts: 27130
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
tonyfromsyracuse wrote:
europeans and candians dont get the flag thing. they dont know what its like to live in a place that inspires them to feel any sort of unity. their places for all intent and purpose might just as well be jump off points for someplace else they would rather be.
but in the end, I suspect whats really at the bottom of it, is a sort of low self esteem. they think they are the enlightened ones and americans are all stupid and they...should be more near the top of the shelf....but they arent, and this descrepancy just drives them insane.
so they strike back in the only way they can.in petty school yard ways. by dumping on the other guy for loving where he lives. so all things americana are attacked...like the flag. *snort* yes.. that's what it is.. you keep believing that.
Photographer
Compass Rose Studios
Posts: 15979
Portland, Oregon, US
My interest in this thread is flagging.
Model
KelliOnLineGlamourNude
Posts: 2999
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
Who cares? It's just a piece of material.
I really don't understand why Americans get so worked up over this. If somebody was to take a Union Jack and burn it or wrap it around a huge phallus, or any other crazy 'disrespectful' thing I wouldn't give a damn. It's a piece of material FFS!
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com I didn't know it was an " American " thing. I honestly thought anyone would demand respect for their country, their flag etc. I've never seen or heard anything but this til your post. I really can't understand how seeing someone burn your flag or disrespect your country in anyway could ever be acceptable. I've seen people live in a country that they don't consider the best country in the world, THAT I don't understand! Live where you think it's the best and stand up for your country, anything less then that is absurd.
Photographer
Virtual Studio
Posts: 6725
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Click Hamilton wrote:
I remember learning some basic rules of flag etiquette when I was around 11 years old as a Boy Scout, mainly for instilling respect for our American flag and what it stands for as a nation of Americans, our heritage, our culture, and who we are in the eyes of the world.
Without question, the American flag evokes many thoughts and feelings, and these vary widely.
As I was reading this thread I was thinking about the symbolism, emotions, respect and other responses I feel about the flag myself. The way these feelings move me descends from respect for the flag and what it symbolizes to me, which I think fits in with this thread.
I read the posts of a few people brave enough to defend the flag and what it represents to them. I see more people who seem to relish opportunities like this to trash the flag, wipe their butt with it, ... whatever, ... trash America, trash our tradition, heritage and culture of freedom, individualism, liberty and what used to be called "The American Dream."
So, since we are all visual artists to one degree or another, I started posting the photos above display some of the feelings and respect I have for our flag and what it represents to me.
I'm happy to say that I feel very fortunate to be born and raised in the United States and to enjoy the blessings of liberty, economic freedom, blind justice, rule of law and so many other exceptional conditions that don't exist in much of the world. I know we are getting pretty beat up and frayed, but we still have some inherent values and freedom that is very fundamentally essential to American ideals and lifestyle.
The American flag does not embarrass me at all. I feel proud and happy when I see it, or when my neighbors post in front of their house, and it helps remind me of who we are as Americans, even in spite of all the challenges we face.
I will bare my chest and say that my heart has swelled and my eyes have become moist more than once at 4th of July parades, at the Miramar Air Show, touring our aircraft carriers and meeting some of the amazing people who run them, and walking through military cemeteries humbled with respect for the price many people have paid to help protect us as a nation.
Butt hay, your mileage may vary 
Feel free to throw rocks if you like. Other people have paid dearly for your right to do that. Feel free to throw rocks if you like. Other people have paid dearly for your right to do that.
indeed. like the canadians who died repelling the us invasion in 1812 exactly so we could throw rocks at the US flag!
As an outside observer it seems very strange that so much stress (indeed the US has laws about it) is put on how you hold a piece of material - yet so little is put on how the values it supposedly embodies are actually acted out in practice.
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 17824
El Segundo, California, US
 Moderator Warning! This is not the soapbox.
If you find yourself using "you" frequently in a post, it might be worth reconsidering before submitting it; it's indicative of not addressing the issues, but rather the person.
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
Cherrystone wrote:
Flag should never be reviled......you're confusing the flag with something else. Why shouldn't it be reviled when its painted on an air drone carrying a 500 lbs bomb that's going to be dropped on an American citizen without any sort of due process? Or if you'd prefer, when that drone is going to drop that bomb on wedding party? Why shouldn't I an American citizen revile what that flag represents when I (or another person) sees it flying over Guantanomo Bay Detention Facility where the rule of law simply doesn't exist?
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 18832
Albany, New York, US
tonyfromsyracuse wrote:
europeans and candians dont get the flag thing. they dont know what its like to live in a place that inspires them to feel any sort of unity. their places for all intent and purpose might just as well be jump off points for someplace else they would rather be. Or they discovered all to well the bankruptcy of blind nationalism when the leapt out of the trenches on July 1, 1916 (1st day of the Somme) where over 19,000 people were killed for virtually nothing.
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