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Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


hi mmrs! now i have a small question/problem. now i have this shoot today with a photographer, i agreed to do tf with him, maybe 5 days ago i sent him a message asking if we could bring a makeup artist on board and he read it and didn't respond. (which bites because a mua wanted to join!) so i sent him an email last night confirming the shoot, this morning i woke up to a message asking if we could move the shoot to 2:00 (we originally said 2:30) and i said i could not 2:00 but could do 2:30. then he responds with "i'm shooting another model at 3:30" and i asked if we could just reschedule so we have more time to shoot. honestly the reason i'm asking is i'm not quite willing to drive 40+ miles to a tf shoot if it's only going to be an hour, no mua and what not. so what do i do? how do i tell him i want to reschedule?
May 01 13 10:44 am  Link  Quote 
Model
T A Y L O R
Posts: 2,977
Austin, Texas, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:
hi mmrs! now i have a small question/problem. now i have this shoot today with a photographer, i agreed to do tf with him, maybe 5 days ago i sent him a message asking if we could bring a makeup artist on board and he read it and didn't respond. (which bites because a mua wanted to join!) so i sent him an email last night confirming the shoot, this morning i woke up to a message asking if we could move the shoot to 2:00 (we originally said 2:30) and i said i could not 2:00 but could do 2:30. then he responds with "i'm shooting another model at 3:30" and i asked if we could just reschedule so we have more time to shoot. honestly the reason i'm asking is i'm not quite willing to drive 40+ miles to a tf shoot if it's only going to be an hour, no mua and what not. so what do i do? how do i tell him i want to reschedule?

How long were you originally planning on shooting for?

Also, you say both:

Bambi Dahl wrote:
and i asked if we could just reschedule so we have more time to shoot.

and

Bambi Dahl wrote:
so what do i do? how do i tell him i want to reschedule?

So did you tell him you want to reschedule already or not?

May 01 13 10:46 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


How long was the shoot originally scheduled to last?

If it was expected to be more than an hour then the photographer has dropped the ball by informing you of the time change and forced finish at such short notice. I think it would be pretty reasonable for you to say you'd prefer to reschedule for a day when you can shoot a little longer than one hour.


Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com
May 01 13 10:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


You do what you originally agreed.

The choice is you show up a 1/2 hour early and get the full time in. Or you show up at 2:30 and shoot for an hour.

You don't reschedule simply because he didn't want to bring in an MUA or whatever other reason you're having these second thoughts.

He gave you the courtesy of providing the full allotted time but it would mean showing a 1/2 hour early. If you choose not to, you get an hour.

You're really going to cancel a shoot a few hours before because you're unwilling to arrive a 1/2 hour early? Really? We're talking about 30 minutes here.
May 01 13 10:49 am  Link  Quote 
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


T A Y L O R  wrote:

Bambi Dahl wrote:
hi mmrs! now i have a small question/problem. now i have this shoot today with a photographer, i agreed to do tf with him, maybe 5 days ago i sent him a message asking if we could bring a makeup artist on board and he read it and didn't respond. (which bites because a mua wanted to join!) so i sent him an email last night confirming the shoot, this morning i woke up to a message asking if we could move the shoot to 2:00 (we originally said 2:30) and i said i could not 2:00 but could do 2:30. then he responds with "i'm shooting another model at 3:30" and i asked if we could just reschedule so we have more time to shoot. honestly the reason i'm asking is i'm not quite willing to drive 40+ miles to a tf shoot if it's only going to be an hour, no mua and what not. so what do i do? how do i tell him i want to reschedule?

How long were you originally planning on shooting for?

Also, you say both:

Bambi Dahl wrote:
and i asked if we could just reschedule so we have more time to shoot.

and

So did you tell him you want to reschedule already or not?

well i mean i was thinking at least two hours, i've never been to a shoot that's been less. :p i did tell him i think we should reschedule and he said he doesn't want to and he only shoots an hour/ an hour thirty. it just seems so short for a long drive. and because he changed the time.

May 01 13 10:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


better to shoot with mua, it's TF, the whole point is your portfolio, might as well take your time and not rush, reschedule when he can give you more time.
May 01 13 10:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Douglas Photo 78
Posts: 180
Tallahassee, Florida, US


A TF shoot should be mutually beneficial for you and the photographer. I think it is odd that the photographer did not positively respond to having a MUA come with you; I wish I had that problem!
It almost sounds like the photographer is not as excited or invested in this TF shoot as you are. The direct approach would probably be the best, just tell him that you would like to reschedule because of the time constraints and that you would like to work out the details and terms of the shoot with him or her and come up with a written agreement that you both can follow.
May 01 13 10:52 am  Link  Quote 
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


also, i have a doctor's appointment at 12:45 and i plotted out that i would be on the road and get there on time if it was at 2:30 still.
May 01 13 10:52 am  Link  Quote 
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


i sent this back, "it seems like it would be a better idea to reschedule so we're not on a time constraint and it's much better to shoot with a mua and since this if tf i want it to be as good as it could be. (:"
May 01 13 10:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:
well i mean i was thinking at least two hours, i've never been to a shoot that's been less. :p i did tell him i think we should reschedule and he said he doesn't want to and he only shoots an hour/ an hour thirty. it just seems so short for a long drive. and because he changed the time.

The shoot you agreed would have been from 2:30-4:00 p.m. (1 1/2 hours). He has another modeling scheduled for 3:30 so he asked to move the shoot up a 1/2 hour to give you that full 1 1/2 hours of shoot time.

Or, you can arrive at the originally agreed time and get 1 hour of shooting. Either way, it's only going to be a 30 minute difference, whether you shoot it now or reschedule, since his shoots only last 1 1/2 anyway.

You're certainly within your right to cancel the shoot, but over 30 minutes seems silly. And I can guarantee you, this shoot, if rescheduled, will never take place.

It just has that vibe that it's more than an issue of just 30 minutes for you. It sounds like you're having second thoughts because you wanted to add the MUA, and then this was "the straw" for you.

Just my opinion, of course.

May 01 13 10:56 am  Link  Quote 
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:
i sent this back, "it seems like it would be a better idea to reschedule so we're not on a time constraint and it's much better to shoot with a mua and since this if tf i want it to be as good as it could be. (:"

he responded! he said that was good with him so we're rescheduling. thank you everyone for the answers!

May 01 13 10:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:
i sent this back, "it seems like it would be a better idea to reschedule so we're not on a time constraint and it's much better to shoot with a mua and since this if tf i want it to be as good as it could be. (:"

OK, but here's the thing. Your original agreement did not include an MUA. That's something you sprung after you both had already agreed to the shoot, correct?

But when he asked for a change, a 30 minute revision to the shoot time, you're not willing to do that and want to reschedule on your terms (with an MUA).

You're basically saying, "Yeah, I thought about it and now I want an MUA...so let's reschedule."

This isn't really about 30 minutes at all.

May 01 13 11:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
M Pandolfo Photography
Posts: 12,116
Tampa, Florida, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:
he responded! he said that was good with him so we're rescheduling. thank you everyone for the answers!
May 01 13 11:03 am  Link  Quote 
Model
T A Y L O R
Posts: 2,977
Austin, Texas, US


M Pandolfo Photography wrote:

OK, but here's the thing. Your original agreement did not include an MUA. That's something you sprung after you both had already agreed to the shoot, correct?

But when he asked for a change, a 30 minute revision to the shoot time, you're not willing to do that and want to reschedule on your terms (with an MUA).

You're basically saying, "Yeah, I thought about it and now I want an MUA...so let's reschedule."

This isn't really about 30 minutes at all.

I disagree.

First of all, there should be zero problem with improving a shoot. Period. If the photographer felt a MUA wouldn't add to the shoot he could have responded with such, but instead he just ignored her message. Very professional.

Then right before the shoot he tries to push back their scheduled time so he can work with another model? If he wanted to plan a shoot with someone else he should have planned it for either 4:15 or 4:45, not 3:30.

I'm sorry, I have zero idea why you're attacking the OP for "springing a MUA on the photographer." What does that even mean?

May 01 13 11:06 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Lillian Faith
Posts: 292
Atlanta, Georgia, US


M Pandolfo Photography wrote:

OK, but here's the thing. Your original agreement did not include an MUA. That's something you sprung after you both had already agreed to the shoot, correct?

But when he asked for a change, a 30 minute revision to the shoot time, you're not willing to do that and want to reschedule on your terms (with an MUA).

You're basically saying, "Yeah, I thought about it and now I want an MUA...so let's reschedule."

This isn't really about 30 minutes at all.

Why are you so concerned with it? They rescheduled, end of problem. Chill out smile

May 01 13 11:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marc Damon
Posts: 6,562
Biloxi, Mississippi, US


Douglas Photo 78 wrote:
A TF shoot should be mutually beneficial for you and the photographer. I think it is odd that the photographer did not positively respond to having a MUA come with you; I wish I had that problem!

Agreed on the mutually beneficial part.

As for the MUA... NOT accusing anyone of anything because I don't know either the OP or photographer.... Some models say MUA when they mean escort. Not every MUA is good at what they do. Bad makeup is bad makeup regardless of who paints the model's face. What was the shoot concept? wardrobe? etc? Not every MUA can do every style, i.e. a MUA who is great at 50's pinup may not be so great at Freddy Kruger horror. So, is it always better to have a MUA? Maybe. It depends. Shouldn't that be discussed when initially planning the shoot?

In my experience, when things change at the last minute, everyone loses.

May 01 13 11:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
T A Y L O R
Posts: 2,977
Austin, Texas, US


If this happened to be I'd either do the exact same thing or just cancel. It's not worth it to shoot with someone who isn't capable or willing to communicate effectively. Especially when there's an 80 mile roundtrip drive.
May 01 13 11:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
T A Y L O R
Posts: 2,977
Austin, Texas, US


Marc Damon wrote:

Agreed on the mutually beneficial part.

As for the MUA... NOT accusing anyone of anything because I don't know either the OP or photographer.... Some models say MUA when they mean escort. Not every MUA is good at what they do. Bad makeup is bad makeup regardless of who paints the model's face. What was the shoot concept? wardrobe? etc? Not every MUA can do every style, i.e. a MUA who is great at 50's pinup may not be so great at Freddy Kruger horror. So, is it always better to have a MUA? Maybe. It depends. Shouldn't that be discussed when initially planning the shoot?

In my experience, when things change at the last minute, everyone loses.

She PMd him about a MUA 5 days ago and he ignored her. He PMd her about the time change this morning.

May 01 13 11:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Douglas Photo 78
Posts: 180
Tallahassee, Florida, US


I hope that the rescheduled shoot works out for you!
May 01 13 11:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BP Glamour
Posts: 834
San Bernardino, California, US


Let us all know if the reschedule shoot happens or not!
May 01 13 11:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 36,313
Columbus, Ohio, US


This has all the makings of a train wreck & post shoot butthurt disease.
May 01 13 11:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carle Photography
Posts: 9,227
Oakland, California, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:
honestly the reason i'm asking is i'm not quite willing to drive 40+ miles to a tf shoot if it's only going to be an hour, no mua and what not. so what do i do? how do i tell him i want to reschedule?

Are you concerned about getting images or spending time with this person?
Maybe they can produce quality work in an hour.

May 01 13 11:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marc Damon
Posts: 6,562
Biloxi, Mississippi, US


Cherrystone wrote:
This has all the makings of a train wreck & post shoot butthurt disease.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-score010.gif
Now go play in SF2

May 01 13 12:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
sdgillis
Posts: 2,426
Portland, Oregon, US


I wouldn't want someone to show up with MUA at the scheduled shoot time either.

30 min with MUA and 30 min of shooting lol.  well I suppose that could work....
May 01 13 12:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


Cherrystone wrote:
This has all the makings of a train wreck & post shoot butthurt disease.

Ha ha !

Glad you got it worked out.  Please, let us know how it goes.  I hope it is a positive experience.

One additional thought.  Depending on how many looks you are trying to get out of a session, one hour might just be enough.  IF he has a good portfolio, his approach is working for him.  You should just go and try it, if for nothing else to experience the process.

May 01 13 12:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,252
Orlando, Florida, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:

well i mean i was thinking at least two hours, i've never been to a shoot that's been less. :p i did tell him i think we should reschedule and he said he doesn't want to and he only shoots an hour/ an hour thirty. it just seems so short for a long drive. and because he changed the time.

I once shot 4 very different looks with a model in 75 minutes and she rocked every single one of them, hard.

You CAN get great stuff with a time constraint.

You broke the shoot.  If he decides not to reschedule with you, it's not him being a jerk.

May 01 13 12:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


Good Egg Productions wrote:
I once shot 4 very different looks with a model in 75 minutes and she rocked every single one of them, hard.

You CAN get great stuff with a time constraint.

You broke the shoot.  If he decides not to reschedule with you, it's not him being a jerk.

i never said you couldn't. and awesome for you. (:

May 01 13 09:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


M Pandolfo Photography wrote:
OK, but here's the thing. Your original agreement did not include an MUA. That's something you sprung after you both had already agreed to the shoot, correct?

But when he asked for a change, a 30 minute revision to the shoot time, you're not willing to do that and want to reschedule on your terms (with an MUA).

You're basically saying, "Yeah, I thought about it and now I want an MUA...so let's reschedule."

This isn't really about 30 minutes at all.

our original agreement did include a mua, this was not something brought on, i messaged him five days ago reminding him and offering to find my own and i got no response. thank you for your responses and help.

May 01 13 09:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Scanlon
Posts: 789
Encino, California, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:

our original agreement did include a mua, this was not something brought on, i messaged him five days ago reminding him and offering to find my own and i got no response. thank you for your responses and help.

This is a very good reason to drop the text message thing and talk on the phone.

May 01 13 11:36 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


If you don't want to do it, don't.

You're not going to get great photos from everyone feeling forced and shitty about it.

Don't even need to come to the forums asking for permission to cancel. Just cancel.
May 01 13 11:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


Damianne wrote:
If you don't want to do it, don't.

You're not going to get great photos from everyone feeling forced and shitty about it.

Don't even need to come to the forums asking for permission to cancel. Just cancel.

thank you.

May 01 13 11:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
T A Y L O R
Posts: 2,977
Austin, Texas, US


Brian Scanlon wrote:

This is a very good reason to drop the text message thing and talk on the phone.

She didn't text him, she sent him a message on MM. It says so in her OP.

May 01 13 11:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


Well, if a model contacted me and said could she bring a MUA then I'm all over that - excellent! smile

But .. if the OP's photographer had another shoot scheduled straight after then he may be thinking that he's going to lose 45mins of shoot time with the OP whilst she in make-up.
May 02 13 12:05 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Dekilah
Posts: 4,882
Detroit, Michigan, US


Honestly, there are a few issues with this situation. Some of them you can learn from so you can prevent them next time. Others are just something that happens.

One thing I would work on in the future is asking how long the shoot will last when you book the shoot. It took me a few times to learn this too, a couple very long shoots and a couple super short ones, both of which I was unprepared for. In this case, given that he had another appointment shortly after yours, I am a little surprised he did not mention the length of the shoot so you would know it would be fairly short.

As a person I would be annoyed if I had agreed upon a time with someone, say 2:30 like you did, and then they wanted to change it at the last minute, plus were now going to cut my time short because they had booked another model, particularly given that he was a fair distance away.

As for the MUA situation, I really have nothing more to add. There are plenty of reasons he may have wanted to avoid the MUA, but it would have been nice to let you know one way or the other given that he had seen the message.

All in all, I think this was just failed communication and a little bit of a last minute change-up that kind of botched up plans. It happens.
May 02 13 08:02 am  Link  Quote 
Model
neeeep
Posts: 238
Los Angeles, California, US


Dekilah wrote:
Honestly, there are a few issues with this situation. Some of them you can learn from so you can prevent them next time. Others are just something that happens.

One thing I would work on in the future is asking how long the shoot will last when you book the shoot. It took me a few times to learn this too, a couple very long shoots and a couple super short ones, both of which I was unprepared for. In this case, given that he had another appointment shortly after yours, I am a little surprised he did not mention the length of the shoot so you would know it would be fairly short.

As a person I would be annoyed if I had agreed upon a time with someone, say 2:30 like you did, and then they wanted to change it at the last minute, plus were now going to cut my time short because they had booked another model, particularly given that he was a fair distance away.

As for the MUA situation, I really have nothing more to add. There are plenty of reasons he may have wanted to avoid the MUA, but it would have been nice to let you know one way or the other given that he had seen the message.

All in all, I think this was just failed communication and a little bit of a last minute change-up that kind of botched up plans. It happens.

c: thank you!

May 02 13 01:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
the lonely photographer
Posts: 1,875
Beverly Hills, California, US


T A Y L O R  wrote:

I disagree.

First of all, there should be zero problem with improving a shoot. Period. If the photographer felt a MUA wouldn't add to the shoot he could have responded with such, but instead he just ignored her message. Very professional.

Then right before the shoot he tries to push back their scheduled time so he can work with another model? If he wanted to plan a shoot with someone else he should have planned it for either 4:15 or 4:45, not 3:30.

I'm sorry, I have zero idea why you're attacking the OP for "springing a MUA on the photographer." What does that even mean?

double booking    , probably thought the OP was going to flake, so he hedged his bets,

May 02 13 01:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Erik Manwaring - Philly
Posts: 665
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


You may want to ask your MUA to do their work prior to your shoot.  It's a 1.5 hour shoot and you'll lose 1/2 of that to the MUA.  I can see both sides here.

Better communication is needed prior to the shoot.
May 02 13 01:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Orca Bay Images
Posts: 32,233
Lodi, California, US


Bambi Dahl wrote:
he responded! he said that was good with him so we're rescheduling. thank you everyone for the answers!
May 02 13 01:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Meghan Hale
Posts: 335
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


Say something such as this:

Hey, originally we had planned for 2:30, and I planned my schedule around that. If you needed the extra time, I would have liked some more notice. We can reschedule the shoot if you'd like, and have the MUA on board. We'd need a few hours to do this, and therefore we can plan accordingly to that.

Let me know!

- your name
May 02 13 03:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
T A Y L O R
Posts: 2,977
Austin, Texas, US


the lonely photographer wrote:

double booking    , probably thought the OP was going to flake, so he hedged his bets,

So we should... commend him on his professionalism for double booking?

May 02 13 03:35 pm  Link  Quote 
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