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12last
Photographer
Boreal Photography
Posts: 292
Duluth, Minnesota, US


I am gearing up to do some fashion/swimsuit photoshoots over the next few months. Trying to decided to go TFP or Paid.  I have done some fashion photography, but not a lot, and just one swimsuit model photoshoot. I am wondering what local models would prefer-- TFP to enhance their portfolio, or Paid maybe $100 for a 4 hr morning shoot at the local beach? I had thought of including the dress+shoes with the TFP (I can get a dress and shoes at Target for $100)-- but then it hit me if I was going to do that, why not just pay the model $100 and I keep the clothing to possibly use again with another model or sell, and then by paying the model I take the pressure off myself for the photoshoot as the model will not expect any images. Curious what models would prefer. I am in a small/mid size northern Minnesota USA city, not New York, pickings for models are slim here so the models I shoot usually need TFP but probably also would like to earn a little cash. Just wanting models' perspectives on this.
May 01 13 01:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Abigail Rose Hill
Posts: 538
Newcastle upon Tyne, England, United Kingdom


models will nearly always take pay over TFP any day...

If you have a specific model you wish to shoot with, take a good look and work out what you'd be prepared to pay. If she specifically states NO TF whatsoever, block those who ask etc, then go in with a budget and work with her to find something you can both afford.

If you offer TF and a model sends rates, if they are in/around your budget, have a haggle and see what you can come up with.
May 01 13 02:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Marissa St Claire
Posts: 98
Eugene, Oregon, US


Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.
May 01 13 03:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boreal Photography
Posts: 292
Duluth, Minnesota, US


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a llama I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the llama and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a llama doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

I think the rationale for a photographer paying a llama but not providing images is that the photographer (1) does not have to worry about the quality of his/her photography as s/he is learning the craft by paying for a llama that hopefully has experience in posing, and (2) the photographer does not have the pressure to worry about producing images/prints for the llama, which if the photographer is still learning could end up being not so good images that the photographer does not want to get out there in the real world which could come back to haunt the photographer's reputation/skill.

May 01 13 03:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
hs photography
Posts: 468
Houston, Texas, US


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

Just curious; if you get paid your full rate for posing, why do you think you should get free images?  I can understand if you charged less than you full rate and got images.

May 01 13 03:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
sweet gamine
Posts: 374
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

You may find it a lame move, however not everyone is interested in paying twice for one service.
Are you in the habit of doing this on any purchases you make?
It makes no difference whatsoever how fast it takes to send an email.
If you want images then you are clearly indicating that you believe those images to hold some value.
Just let the photographer you are working with know what you would like to receive for your services as a model.
If you would like to have images in addition to cash, let it be known upfront.
The answer could be yes, it could be no - it is between you and the person you are working with.

May 01 13 03:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
POMERANTS
Posts: 123
Los Angeles, California, US


Just curious; if you get paid your full rate for posing, why do you think you should get free images?  I can understand if you charged less than you full rate and got images.

+1000
May 01 13 04:56 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mortonovich
Posts: 5,261
San Diego, California, US


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

lol

Classic.

May 01 13 05:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JadeDRed
Posts: 5,320
London, England, United Kingdom


Randall_Oelerich wrote:

I think the rationale for a photographer paying a model but not providing images is that the photographer (1) does not have to worry about the quality of his/her photography as s/he is learning the craft by paying for a model that hopefully has experience in posing, and (2) the photographer does not have the pressure to worry about producing images/prints for the model, which if the photographer is still learning could end up being not so good images that the photographer does not want to get out there in the real world which could come back to haunt the photographer's reputation/skill.

I think what is meant is IF you get images and spend the time preparing them anyways then it is a nice thing to send them on.

But since you don't sound like you would want to guarantee them even if you were offering then you should absolutely not mention them when discussing the shoot. "Maybes" are generally bad when discussing details of a shoot, people end up disappointed. So i disagree with that poster.

You seem not keen on the pressure of providing photos so paying does seem to be the better option.

May 01 13 05:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 6,790
New York, New York, US


off topic.
May 01 13 05:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Alivia Autumn
Posts: 606
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Let the model decide.

If you told me all that in an email, I would look at your photography and decide if I preferred the photos or the money.
May 01 13 05:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,494
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

If the photographers photos are worth something than why is he paying you?

May 01 13 05:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JadeDRed
Posts: 5,320
London, England, United Kingdom


Images by MR wrote:

If the photographers photos are worth something than why is he paying you?

Are you saying if a photographer pays his work isn't worth anything?

May 01 13 05:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JadeDRed
Posts: 5,320
London, England, United Kingdom


Images by MR wrote:

If the photographers photos are worth something than why is he paying you?

Are you saying if a photographer pays his work isn't worth anything?

May 01 13 05:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Images by MR
Posts: 7,494
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada


JadeDRed wrote:
Are you saying if a photographer pays his work isn't worth anything?

Yes if the model picks paid over TF.  If the photographers work has value than shoot TF.

May 01 13 05:29 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,286
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a llama I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the llama and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a llama doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

Yes that is exactly what that means, professional llamas don't get free images.  In fact when they need portfolio updates they actually hire photographers.

However it is clear by your response that only your time has value and the rest of us are just here for your needs

May 01 13 05:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

Why would the photographer automatically give a model images from a paid shoot?  That's just saying the photographer's work has zero value.  If the model wants the photographer's work, there shouldn't be a need to pay.  Now, sometimes it works out that the compensation is SOME cash payment and SOME images / image rights.  Certainly nothing wrong with that.  Same as if the model pays, and the photographer gets a release, if it's agreed.  But full rates, and the expectation, isn't reasonable.

May 01 13 05:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Tori Long
Posts: 934
Louisville, Kentucky, US


JadeDRed wrote:

Are you saying if a photographer pays his work isn't worth anything?

I think this is all silly.  I never expect to get photos from a paid photoshoot, but often if the photographer uses it for their own portfolio I ask if I can have a copy.  Maybes are totally acceptable in this situation.  Or if there is a client involved the model should definitely get copies of the advertisement or catalog copies if they get used.  Often some of the best photographers on MM post paid castings, either for a client or because they need someone specific for a pet project of theirs.

If a photographer wants a model off of MM that doesn't flake he is smarter to pay rather than do TF.  Also the girls wanting TF may not be the sort of model the photographer wants in his portfolio. 

And yes some people flake on paid shoots, but you hear that complaint a lot less than models flaking on TF shoots.

May 01 13 05:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Tori Long
Posts: 934
Louisville, Kentucky, US


Art of the nude wrote:

Why would the photographer automatically give a model images from a paid shoot?  That's just saying the photographer's work has zero value.  If the model wants the photographer's work, there shouldn't be a need to pay.  Now, sometimes it works out that the compensation is SOME cash payment and SOME images / image rights.  Certainly nothing wrong with that.  Same as if the model pays, and the photographer gets a release, if it's agreed.  But full rates, and the expectation, isn't reasonable.

I'm sorry but plenty of people that do TF shoots with models have work with zero value but the girls feel special doing a shoot with anyone to be a model.  And from what I gathered from her quote, she meant if they get edited she thinks you should send over a copy.  There are times when I don't want to update my portfolio, but that doesn't mean I won't a copy of a photo from a shoot I did.  And if that model only does shoots with people who pay her a little and give her photos that doesn't mean that they are worthless, that just means they agreed to her terms in order to work with her.

May 01 13 05:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 12,286
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Tori Long wrote:
And yes some people flake on paid shoots, but you hear that complaint a lot less than models flaking on TF shoots.

You know Tori I think they ones who tend to flake will do so no matter what.  The professional ones act the same on TF or Paid shoots, it why photographers should check references as well.

May 01 13 05:46 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Tori Long
Posts: 934
Louisville, Kentucky, US


AJScalzitti wrote:

Yes that is exactly what that means, professional models don't get free images.  In fact when they need portfolio updates they actually hire photographers.

However it is clear by your response that only your time has value and the rest of us are just here for your needs

What on earth are you talking about???  The professional agency models I know update their books with magazine tears and advertisements they were in.  And if they want to do TF they do it....  Starting out the agency might pay for a new model to get shoots, but that doesn't mean that model is paying out of pocket.  Maybe we know different types of professional models....

May 01 13 05:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
wendy haigh
Posts: 517
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

Why pay someone twice???  I do not get paid twice!!  If i pay a model monetry compensation, they get no photos, unless they want to pay me for the hours i sit in front of the computer,,, fair is fair,, it isnt lame!!  I will always put in my castings if i am going to pay a model monetry compensation then she/he will not get any images.  Just my 2 cents worth!! smile

May 01 13 05:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Tori Long
Posts: 934
Louisville, Kentucky, US


AJScalzitti wrote:
You know Tori I think they ones who tend to flake will do so no matter what.  The professional ones act the same on TF or Paid shoots, it why photographers should check references as well.

But if you are a professional model why are you wanting to do TF with a photographer that is just starting out?  Most of the girls a new photographer is choosing from would have few if any references (and I doubt they will list ones they bailed on).

But a new photographer might take an awesome set of photos he doesn't have in his portfolio yet (people grow right?). 

Just from my experience a number of paying photographers do return photos.  I don't bitch at them if they don't, but it's not uncommon in NYC.  And plenty of TF photographers choose to take months or not send photos at all... so idk.

May 01 13 06:03 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Lynn Elizabeth
Posts: 1,336
Coral Springs, Florida, US


OP.  Post a "negotiable" casting. Explain that you are looking for TFP but willing to pay an experienced model.

The experienced model may not need image, but who doesn't like to be paid. If you do decide to pay a model that is the compensation. You do not have to supply images as well, unless you want to. That is up to you, it is not a requirement. Do make sure you explain that in your casting though. Saying something like, if you are being paid you do not receive any images. This may push models to choose TFP over paid.

Some models will assume that they will get paid and images if you do not specify.
May 01 13 06:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


JadeDRed wrote:
Are you saying if a photographer pays his work isn't worth anything?

If a model is paid full market rates and still expects images, the work isn't worth anything TO THAT MODEL.

May 01 13 06:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rob Photosby
Posts: 2,275
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a llama I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the llama and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a llama doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

So the llama's time is precious but the photographer's time is not?

You have a lot to learn.

May 01 13 06:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Amber Dawn - Colorado
Posts: 6,053
Castle Rock, Colorado, US


If I am posing for 4 hours I would pick TF* over $100
May 01 13 07:07 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,781
Olivet, Michigan, US


Colorado Model Amber wrote:
If I am posing for 4 hours I would pick TF* over $100

I know of plenty of models who consider TF a higher priority than paid, when they find a photographer they're willing to trade with, it's rare enough to value.  Oddly enough, models who value selective trades that highly tend to have plenty of paid work.

May 01 13 07:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
LexLethal
Posts: 671
New York, New York, US


Randall_Oelerich wrote:

Pay usually trumps tf work, but ultimately it depends on the quality of the photographers work and the needs of the model's portfolio. Maybe try putting out a TF casting, perhaps offering photos and the wardrobe as compensation instead of a flat rate? See if you get any bites. If not, try a paid casting. Never know what works until you try.


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

It's not a lame move, it's just business. Why expect payment and images? That's sort of greedy. Just because you're modeling for them doesn't mean you need to get photos - particularly if you're paid. You're being paid for their port, not yours. That's what TF is for. Personally, I find photos after a paid shoot to be a welcome extra, but I don't hate on anyone for not sending photos.

May 01 13 08:16 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boreal Photography
Posts: 292
Duluth, Minnesota, US


Colorado Model Amber wrote:
If I am posing for 4 hours I would pick TF* over $100

Just to clarify, but I kind of did in my original post-- I am from a city that really has little in terms of attractive experienced models; so to me, $25/hrx4hrs, $100, seems reasonable for local inexperienced wannabe models compared to the $8/hr they are likely making at local minimum wage jobs. A lot more fun to hit the beach (10 minutes from just about anywhere where i live, not a big commute like in larger cities) and do a photoshoot for $25/hr than flip burgers.  Now of course if I were hiring experienced models who know how to strike poses and who have beauty that the camera loves, I would be paying a lot more than $25/hr, probably would have to pay $100/hr+. But if I am approaching $100/hr+ just as an artist to better my portfolio, not as a commercial photographer working for a company to photograph their swimwear/fashion, then I would probably just book with a swimwear/fashion workshop along with other like-minded photographers and where there are a half dozen models, everybody has fun and improves their portfolios and skill level. Not meaning to cheap out on models at $25/hr, just that this all relates to where I live (northern Minnesota, not exactly South Beach, or NYC, or LA), and the purpose (non-commercial). There are several colleges/universities where I live, lots of college age attractive 'models' who probably would love to earn $25/hr at the beach rather than flip burgers. I've had beautiful college students pose for fine art full nudes for me in the past for $10/hr. Econ101, supply and demand locally. All good.

May 02 13 05:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
terrysphotocountry
Posts: 4,048
Rochester, New York, US


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

In other words you want your cake and eat it? Most of the time a paid session you get money. At a Tf you get a few images. Pick one. Normall I might provide a image or two only if this is agreed before the session only! Never ask for amu imag's after. sad`

May 02 13 06:00 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


terrysphotocountry wrote:
In other words you want your cake and eat it? Most of the time a paid session you get money. At a Tf you get a few images. Pick one. Normall I might provide a image or two only if this is agreed before the session only! Never ask for amu imag's after. sad`

Except $100 for four hours is not good pay.

On the face of it compared with what many earn an hour it is. However, what people accept is job security for low hourly pay. Without job security you need higher pay. Especially when models are in demand by employers offering such. Promotional companies. LEA's, Art insitutions, fashion houses boutiques etc. who offer weeks of work on sometimes higher and sometimes lower wages but it isn't just four hours work. when booking a photography gig in advance you can actually lose a very lucrative job.

So that being the case I think $100 plus a few images fair. Otherwise I wouldn't consider it. If I am getting my day rate of  £175 ($300ish) I don't even ask for images.

From the photographer's point of view who you shoot plus the creative team (stylist, MUA etc) can actually stand you in good stead for approaching a company re wardrobe. So for example if you are booking a model who already has experience modelling for a swimwear company rather than having to buy the swimsuit you may be able to borrow a few items from a new collection from a swimwear company. You will have to offer them images too of course; but then there is always the possibility of editorial and even them booking you to shoot the following seasons collections. So therefore attracting the right model for the job will sometimes be worth offering a good day's wages for.

May 02 13 06:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boreal Photography
Posts: 292
Duluth, Minnesota, US


Eliza C wrote:
Except $100 for four hours is not good pay....

Unless you are a broke college student flipping burgers for $8/hr. Then instead of working an 8 hr shift over a greasy griddle for $64 stinks compared to $100 for 4 hrs frolicking on a beach. Just for a few days off, not as a regular job with benefits and job security.

Eliza C wrote:
... I wouldn't consider it...

No problem there, Econ101, supply and demand, any model would be free to decline an offer of $100/half-day.

Eliza C wrote:
...attracting the right model for the job will sometimes be worth offering a good day's wages for.

I totally agree. If I found an attractive model with posing experience, I would pay $300-$600 for a full day of modeling.

May 02 13 07:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
photo212grapher
Posts: 1,538
Saint Louis, Missouri, US


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

I tend to agree with you, but with the one exception if the photographer knows the images are  specifically for some commercial use. The photographer might need to keep the images out of the public eye until well after the commercial has expired.

It is all part of the negotiations BEFORE the shoot. Half day shooting for $100? Seems like pics are appropriate. $1000/half day? Maybe no pics. The more you charge for modeling, the less pics you should expect.

For me, I want even my paid models to either use or critique the images. So I send them copies of whatever I edit after the shoot. I may not send them edits I try a year later, but they'll get the ones I liked up front.

May 02 13 07:50 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Eliza C
Posts: 7,884
Monmouth, Wales, United Kingdom


Randall_Oelerich wrote:

Unless you are a broke college student flipping burgers for $8/hr. Then instead of working an 8 hr shift over a greasy griddle for $64 stinks compared to $100 for 4 hrs frolicking on a beach. Just for a few days off, not as a regular job with benefits and job security.


No problem there, Econ101, supply and demand, any model would be free to decline an offer of $100/half-day.


I totally agree. If I found an attractive model with posing experience, I would pay $300-$600 for a full day of modeling.

My point is that I would rather flip burgers for $10 an hour (min wage here) for ten hours a day than work for four hours a day three times a month. The latter wouldn't pay my rent.

And modelling if one is doing it right isn't frollicking it's hard work; and beaches here are flipping freezing smile

As it happens in fact a photographer is competing when I was modelling full time with a major fashion company employing me as their fit model paying a great deal more than that. And working for those few hours may mean I was unavailable to them for a week's work. Costing me rather a lot of money.

The truth is we aren't flipping burgers because we have skills recognised by many employers that pay more. Some photographers for example don't see fit and promo modelling as 'proper' modelling but those are the kind of things that pay our rent and for which you as photographers are competing. Yes we don't get pretty pictures with the former so you have an edge sometimes when models need pictures.

Many  professional models here will give you a day rate. Four hours is not a day's wage but it can stop you getting a day's wage or even a week's wage. So it is usually better for both to offer $300 for shooting for 12 than offer $100 shooting for two if that makes sense.

May 02 13 08:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boreal Photography
Posts: 292
Duluth, Minnesota, US


Eliza C wrote:
My point is that I would rather flip burgers for $10 an hour (min wage here) for ten hours a day than work for four hours a day three times a month. The latter wouldn't pay my rent.

I think if you look at my postings you will see I was referring to the modeling sessions at $100/4hrs as extra work beyond flipping burgers, not at all meant as rent paying full time employment; rather a photoshoot(s) on a morning of a model's day off from their day job. I certainly would not expect a model working for me to have that be her main job to pay rent at all. Just extra cash on the side and a chance to learn posing, modeling.

Eliza C wrote:
And modelling if one is doing it right isn't frollicking it's hard work; and beaches here are flipping freezing smile

Totally agree. But to many college students flipping burgers, modeling on the beach on a nice summer day probably is a *lot* less work than flipping burgers, and for 3x/hr the pay they would get flipping burgers.

Eliza C wrote:
The truth is we aren't flipping burgers...

Again, I am not saying *you* are flipping burgers, or MM models here are doing burger flipping, but I am saying there are local college students flipping burgers or serving coffee for $8/hr. I am just saying they (not you) might relish the thought of earning $25/hr to do some modeling on a local beach. In fact I know this as I have done this with local college students already, very attractive local college students.  Pro models who know how to pose-- I have no problem forking over the money, but I am not going to pay the bigger bucks for inexperienced models who I will spend considerable time guiding posing, who still might look like a deer in the headlights when being photographed (had a model like that once, useless, she just could not relax, complete waste of her time and my time).

I have paid $400/4hrs to some models, for several photo sessions for each such model. But they were incredibly beautiful albeit had no experience modeling, and that was for fine art nudes. So again, just Econ101, supply and demand, experience or not, level of beauty. So those models (college students) earned $1200 for 12 hrs of work, which paid for a nice spring break vacation for them to Cancun and such and they were quite happy to do that modeling and had a lot of fun actually. And I have had gorgeous models pose for glamour/nude for free or just a TF image or two.

I think as this thread has helped point out, it is so important to have an agreement up front so nobody on either side of the camera feels slighted. I am all for that. As Covey said (Covey's 7 principles of highly effective people, or some such book title)-- always go for a win+win agreement, or a lose+lose (walk away), never a win+lose (or somebody feel's cheated and that karma can come around and nip you in the arse).

May 02 13 08:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Marissa St Claire wrote:
Speaking as a model I would always prefer paid work however if you are planning on paying the model and not giving them any images I think that is a lame move on your part. Just because you pay a model doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get at least an image or two, you're going to be editing them anyways and it only takes a minute to send them off in an e-mail.

If you want the pictures either lower your rate or pay for them.  Trying to get paid twice is lame.

May 02 13 09:37 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Randall_Oelerich wrote:
I am gearing up to do some fashion/swimsuit photoshoots over the next few months. Trying to decided to go TFP or Paid.  I have done some fashion photography, but not a lot, and just one swimsuit model photoshoot. I am wondering what local models would prefer-- TFP to enhance their portfolio, or Paid maybe $100 for a 4 hr morning shoot at the local beach? I had thought of including the dress+shoes with the TFP (I can get a dress and shoes at Target for $100)-- but then it hit me if I was going to do that, why not just pay the model $100 and I keep the clothing to possibly use again with another model or sell, and then by paying the model I take the pressure off myself for the photoshoot as the model will not expect any images. Curious what models would prefer. I am in a small/mid size northern Minnesota USA city, not New York, pickings for models are slim here so the models I shoot usually need TFP but probably also would like to earn a little cash. Just wanting models' perspectives on this.

Whatever route you take,  have a clear distinction between TFP and paid.  Why would a model want TF if he or she can be paid,  given images and given clothes.

May 02 13 09:39 am  Link  Quote 
Model
V for Victory Modeling
Posts: 436
Roseville, California, US


Right now I am making the transition to primarily paid work. I also have a day job and school, so my time is very limited at the moment and I need to get paid. I'm at the point where TF isn't benefiting me too much anymore unless it's something I could really use in my port or a really good photographer I'd love to work with.
May 02 13 09:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Boreal Photography
Posts: 292
Duluth, Minnesota, US


Valerie Kelly wrote:
...I'm at the point where TF isn't benefiting me too much anymore unless it's something I could really use in my port or a really good photographer I'd love to work with.

Spot on, that is the point where a model should just go for paid gigs, no TF.

May 02 13 10:06 am  Link  Quote 
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