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first12
Photographer
4point0
Posts: 687
Los Angeles, California, US


I've been hesitant to say something about this. I haven't coded or designed a website since like 2008, so my skills are quite outdated in some regards. That being said I do still know quite a bit about the subject.

What I'm getting from this thread, OP, is that you are going to use Dreamweaver. Done. Any suggestion to the contrary is inconcievable for whatever reason. Dreamweaver it is. All in. Secondly I think I understand that your pain point right now is CSS positioning.

CSS can be a bit much to wrap your head around if you don't have your coding head on yet. But once you understand the basics, and it won't take long, you'll be hand-tweaking code in no time. Really. Just stick with it.

O'Reilly has some fantastic resources. The original CSS guide from 100 years ago taught me well. www.oreilly.com/css-html/. W3.org needs to be site you visit often. Anything you need to know can be found there. www.w3.org/Style/Examples/011/firstcss

Good luck!
May 08 13 06:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,371
Dallas, Texas, US


Fat Kitty Studios wrote:
I've been hesitant to say something about this. I haven't coded or designed a website since like 2008, so my skills are quite outdated in some regards. That being said I do still know quite a bit about the subject.

What I'm getting from this thread, OP, is that you are going to use Dreamweaver. Done. Any suggestion to the contrary is inconcievable for whatever reason. Dreamweaver it is. All in. Secondly I think I understand that your pain point right now is CSS positioning.

CSS can be a bit much to wrap your head around if you don't have your coding head on yet. But once you understand the basics, and it won't take long, you'll be hand-tweaking code in no time. Really. Just stick with it.

O'Reilly has some fantastic resources. The original CSS guide from 100 years ago taught me well. www.oreilly.com/css-html/. W3.org needs to be site you visit often. Anything you need to know can be found there. www.w3.org/Style/Examples/011/firstcss

Good luck!

Thanks!  (Yeah, I'm definitely going to use Dreamweaver 'cause I've got $400 sunk in it!)

I have this book coming from Amazon in a couple of days:

Learning Web Design: A Beginner's Guide to HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and Web Graphics

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1449319270/ref … 1_ST1_dp_4

Hopefully it will help...though now I have a new "fear": the biggest problem I've been running into the last couple of days is when using SPRY menu bars - little built-in packages you can insert that create really nice menu/navigation pieces.  The main reason I've had to delete everything (hours of work) and start over multiple times has been when I've made some tweaks that have inadvertently screwed up the Spry menu piece...and putting me in a place where I had no clue as to how to fix them (other than delete everything and totally start over).

I'm about to decide to start out building a REALLY basic web site (one not really any better than what I have running right now), then make copies of it and make improvements to a copy.  Then, if it totally blows up, I can at least start over with another copy of the basic site, rather than starting completely over from scratch.

One question if anyone has any suggestions - the Adobe "Classroom in a Book" that I have suggests that the best way to start a website is to create the website template with the CSS code IN the .html (page) file, then once it's all set (and before converting it into a template) - move the CSS code to a separate file.

I totally understand about the value of the separate CSS file...but I'm wondering if my best bet would be to set up the separate CSS file (and attach it to the html file) at the VERY BEGINNING (ie: when starting the mockup which will become the web page template)?  Especially since 2 instances where I had to start all over is when I somehow screwed up the process of moving the CSS code to a separate CSS file.

Suggestions from people who know what they are doing?  smile

May 08 13 07:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
California Girls Skate
Posts: 343
Los Angeles, California, US


Gary Melton wrote:
One question if anyone has any suggestions - the Adobe "Classroom in a Book" that I have suggests that the best way to start a website is to create the website template with the CSS code IN the .html (page) file, then once it's all set (and before converting it into a template) - move the CSS code to a separate file.

Suggestions from people who know what they are doing?  smile

Honestly, if you know how to write code, it makes no difference if you code it on the page and move it, or code it separate. The problem is that Dreamweaver writes awful CSS. It is writing nearly 500 lines of code on your http://www.goofyroosterpublishing.com pages. You site is WAY too simple to ever require that much CSS. You should be able to code those pages with about 50 lines of CSS. Plus, not only is Dreamweaver embedding the CSS in each page individually, but a quick look in Beyond Compare shows that the CSS on your index.html page your books.html are using completely different variables. Presuming it's doing that in your whole site, that means 500 new lines of CSS on every page. That kind of defeats the whole "cascading" point.

Since Dreamweaver seems to be writing horrendous CSS, it would likely be wiser to start with it in a standalone .CSS file, so at least if it writes a bloated 5000-line file, it will be all in one place and not break just because you tried moving something.

May 08 13 07:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,371
Dallas, Texas, US


California Girls Skate wrote:
Honestly, if you know how to write code, it makes no difference if you code it on the page and move it, or code it separate. The problem is that Dreamweaver writes awful CSS. It is writing nearly 500 lines of code on your http://www.goofyroosterpublishing.com pages. You site is WAY too simple to ever require that much CSS. You should be able to code those pages with about 50 lines of CSS. Plus, not only is Dreamweaver embedding the CSS in each page individually, but a quick look in Beyond Compare shows that the CSS on your index.html page your books.html are using completely different variables. Presuming it's doing that in your whole site, that means 500 new lines of CSS on every page. That kind of defeats the whole "cascading" point.

Since Dreamweaver seems to be writing horrendous CSS, it would likely be wiser to start with it in a standalone .CSS file, so at least if it writes a bloated 5000-line file, it will be all in one place and not break just because you tried moving something.

My current http://www.goofyroosterpublishing.com website which is on-line now was NOT created with Dreamweaver - I created the current version with SiteSpinner.  That's why I got Dreamweaver - to create something more dynamic and impressive looking that what I currently have.

SiteSpinner is a completely WYSIWYG type of webpage builder from start to finish.  It IS possible to edit the actual coding, but I never found it necessary (hence, before getting Dreamweaver, I knew next to NOTHING about CSS...I thought that everything I was doing was HTML actually).

With Dreamweaver, as I found out pretty quickly, it's very close to impossible to NOT need to edit the html and CSS code directly (ie: without just editing through the interfaces instead), so Dreamweaver is pretty much a whole new experience for me.  As I said before - I thought that my 3000+ hours of web design would help me get up and running with Dreamweaver...but I have since discovered the folly of that.  For the most part, all of my past experience has only helped me with the VERY broad strokes/concepts.  I have almost EVERYTHING to learn about the nuts and bolts of html and css.

After going through the Dreamweaver "Classroom in a Book", I have a basic understanding of CSS...and I understand fully that the optimum way to create a website is with a SINGLE CSS file styling ALL the pages (rather than having duplicate CSS embedded on every page).

May 08 13 08:21 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
4point0
Posts: 687
Los Angeles, California, US


Gary Melton wrote:
One question if anyone has any suggestions - the Adobe "Classroom in a Book" that I have suggests that the best way to start a website is to create the website template with the CSS code IN the .html (page) file, then once it's all set (and before converting it into a template) - move the CSS code to a separate file.

I totally understand about the value of the separate CSS file...but I'm wondering if my best bet would be to set up the separate CSS file (and attach it to the html file) at the VERY BEGINNING

Hmmm. Technically the CSS file is a referenced link. So it's a separate file altogether, if that makes sense. It's linked in the header.

Never ever put style in the header of every page. Use CSS. That's the point of CSS.

Please for the love of the cute puppy gods, go look at the links I gave you before.

To try to simplify: HTML is the commander in chief. CSS is the layout/ design interpreter.

May 08 13 09:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,870
Santa Ana, California, US


I would definitely use a separate global css file (which you include in each page) from the beginning. I can see no advantage to having the css contained directly within each html file and I can see headaches upon headaches if you do.

For extremely fine tweaking, there are instances where you might have a little bit of css in the html file, but emphasis on little bitty bit and understand why you need to before you do.
May 08 13 09:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,371
Dallas, Texas, US


Fat Kitty Studios wrote:

Hmmm. Technically the CSS file is a referenced link. So it's a separate file altogether, if that makes sense. It's linked in the header.

Never ever put style in the header of every page. Use CSS. That's the point of CSS.

Please for the love of the cute puppy gods, go look at the links I gave you before.

To try to simplify: HTML is the commander in chief. CSS is the layout/ design interpreter.

No, I do understand the difference between CSS and HTML...it's like the HTML is the content, and the CSS tells it where to go and how to act. I understand that by having a separate CSS file linked to the template file, then all the child pages created from the parent (template) will automatically be linked to the same, single CSS file.  That means that any changes made to the CSS file while creating ANY of the child pages will be there for ALL the child pages to share.

I'm still working on getting the hang of organizing/naming things to minimize the number of CSS rules needed.  I'm still a little bit confused about when to use a CSS rule as opposed to a CSS Class; and it still hasn't sunk into me completely when to use an ID instead of a Class.  I understand that an ID outranks a Class, which outranks a Rule, but still haven't fully understood about how it all gets affected when one thing is inside of another - like a paragraph element inside a content element inside a container element, etc.

It's a bunch of STUFF to learn all at once!

...Yeah, I think I'm going to create the separate CSS sheet (and link it to the HTML file) FIRST THING before I do ANYTHING to create the HTML.

May 08 13 09:54 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Caitin Bre
Posts: 1,929
Naperville, Illinois, US


I like dreamweaver. But if you are looking for something easy to use but powerful and up to date go for adobe muse.
May 08 13 10:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,870
Santa Ana, California, US


If you're going to attach the style to a single html element or a very few, then you can attach the css directly using the ID of the element.

However, if the css rule is more general, then it's better to use a class and then all you have to do is use class= in the html element and it will have that css rule applied.
May 08 13 10:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,371
Dallas, Texas, US


John Allan wrote:
If you're going to attach the style to a single html element or a very few, then you can attach the css directly using the ID of the element.

However, if the css rule is more general, then it's better to use a class and then all you have to do is use class= in the html element and it will have that css rule applied.

My understanding is that you can have unlimited number of classes, but you can only have one ID per page...and I've yet to really wrap my brain around the programming implications of that.

May 09 13 06:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,870
Santa Ana, California, US


Gary Melton wrote:

My understanding is that you can have unlimited number of classes, but you can only have one ID per page...and I've yet to really wrap my brain around the programming implications of that.

It's about which direction/perspective you're coming from. The perspective of the css or the perspective of the html.

Within the html, each element can be uniquely identified by assigning a unique id to it.
Then within the css, you can create a style that is unique to that id (unique to that html element).

Or from the other direction/perspective; within the css you can create a style of a particular class. Then within the html, whenever you want any element to use that style (irrespective of id), you use the class= attribute to assign that style class to the html element.

So, a css style using an id, is a one to one relationship with an html element with that specific id.

A css style using a class, is a one to many relationship with all the html elements with that class attribute.

May 09 13 10:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jim McCrain
Posts: 174
Frisco, Texas, US


Take a look at "Lynda.com"  There are quite a few video tutorials about using Dreamweaver and CSS.  I have taken several Lynda.com courses, and they have all been very well done.  It really isn't that bad of a price, either.  I spent $375 for a one-year "all access" membership.  That means I can take courses in Dreamweaver, CSS, Photoshop, After Effects, PremierePro, FinalCut, SQL, etc.  There are HUNDREDS of courses that you can take.

And Gary, I am also in the Dallas area.  If you need some help with something, just let me know and I'll ee what I can do.  If nothing else, we can both learn some new Dreamweaver skills.

Good luck!

Jim
May 10 13 08:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,371
Dallas, Texas, US


Jim McCrain wrote:
Take a look at "Lynda.com"  There are quite a few video tutorials about using Dreamweaver and CSS.  I have taken several Lynda.com courses, and they have all been very well done.  It really isn't that bad of a price, either.  I spent $375 for a one-year "all access" membership.  That means I can take courses in Dreamweaver, CSS, Photoshop, After Effects, PremierePro, FinalCut, SQL, etc.  There are HUNDREDS of courses that you can take.

And Gary, I am also in the Dallas area.  If you need some help with something, just let me know and I'll ee what I can do.  If nothing else, we can both learn some new Dreamweaver skills.

Good luck!

Jim

Thanks Jim!

May 10 13 10:34 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
- shana c -
Posts: 643
New York, New York, US


Gary Melton wrote:
My understanding is that you can have unlimited number of classes, but you can only have one ID per page...and I've yet to really wrap my brain around the programming implications of that.

IDs are meant to have a one-to-one relationship - an element gets only one ID, and it should be the only element on the page with that ID; it's a unique identifier, as the name implies.

Classes are many-to-many - an element can have as many classes as you need, and those classes could be shared by any other elements; it's a category that describes a "type" of thing.

Think of it like cars - every car on the road needs exactly one license plate number, that it doesn't share with any other car in that state (page). The license plate number refers to that one very specific car. At the same time, that car has properties it shares with other cars, in various combinations - you could have a car with the "classes" of "2010," "Honda," "Accord," "silver." Then you could have another (very similar) car with the exact same classes - but it would still need to have different plates, because it's a different car.

And of course you could have another car with some of the same classes (a red 2013 Honda Accord), or totally different classes (a blue 2013 Nissan Altima).

(Sorry for the ramble, I do this crap for a living.)

May 10 13 12:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,371
Dallas, Texas, US


- shana c - wrote:
IDs are meant to have a one-to-one relationship - an element gets only one ID, and it should be the only element on the page with that ID; it's a unique identifier, as the name implies.

Classes are many-to-many - an element can have as many classes as you need, and those classes could be shared by any other elements; it's a category that describes a "type" of thing.

Think of it like cars - every car on the road needs exactly one license plate number, that it doesn't share with any other car in that state (page). The license plate number refers to that one very specific car. At the same time, that car has properties it shares with other cars, in various combinations - you could have a car with the "classes" of "2010," "Honda," "Accord," "silver." Then you could have another (very similar) car with the exact same classes - but it would still need to have different plates, because it's a different car.

And of course you could have another car with some of the same classes (a red 2013 Honda Accord), or totally different classes (a blue 2013 Nissan Altima).

(Sorry for the ramble, I do this crap for a living.)

...okay...okay...maybe I've been misunderstanding one aspect of this.

I thought that you could only have 1 ID per page, but I think what you are saying is that there can be multiple ID's on a page...but each one can only be assigned to 1 element each?  Is that correct?

If that is correct, that finally clears up my confusion - I understand that an ID outranks everything else (html formatting, CSS rules, and CSS classes), I just couldn't understand why you could only have 1 ID per page.

But, if I'm understanding it correctly NOW, then it makes sense (...not "1 ID per page" but "no more than 1 element with the same ID per page").

May 10 13 12:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
- shana c -
Posts: 643
New York, New York, US


Gary Melton wrote:

...okay...okay...maybe I've been misunderstanding one aspect of this.

I thought that you could only have 1 ID per page, but I think what you are saying is that there can be multiple ID's on a page...but each one can only be assigned to 1 element each?  Is that correct?

If that is correct, that finally clears up my confusion - I understand that an ID outranks everything else (html formatting, CSS rules, and CSS classes), I just couldn't understand why you could only have 1 ID per page.

But, if I'm understanding it correctly NOW, then it makes sense (...not "1 ID per page" but "no more than 1 element with the same ID per page").

Yup, you've got it now. That's correct.

May 10 13 01:00 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 9,870
Santa Ana, California, US


- shana c - wrote:

IDs are meant to have a one-to-one relationship - an element gets only one ID, and it should be the only element on the page with that ID; it's a unique identifier, as the name implies.

Classes are many-to-many - an element can have as many classes as you need, and those classes could be shared by any other elements; it's a category that describes a "type" of thing.

Think of it like cars - every car on the road needs exactly one license plate number, that it doesn't share with any other car in that state (page). The license plate number refers to that one very specific car. At the same time, that car has properties it shares with other cars, in various combinations - you could have a car with the "classes" of "2010," "Honda," "Accord," "silver." Then you could have another (very similar) car with the exact same classes - but it would still need to have different plates, because it's a different car.

And of course you could have another car with some of the same classes (a red 2013 Honda Accord), or totally different classes (a blue 2013 Nissan Altima).

(Sorry for the ramble, I do this crap for a living.)

Yes - that's a really good analogy.

May 10 13 01:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
tbmartworx
Posts: 19
Calgary, Alberta, Canada


there are plenty of html and css tutorials online.  and you don't need anything, you can program html on notepad or any other text editor, just as long as you save it in the correct file format.
May 10 13 01:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tsing Mui
Posts: 28
NORTH BRUNSWICK, New Jersey, US


The only reason I work in Dreamweaver is because of its auto-complete. Other coding software have similar functions, but it's just not the same.

The program is heavily bloated for someone who simply hand codes.
May 10 13 07:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,371
Dallas, Texas, US


Tsing Mui wrote:
The only reason I work in Dreamweaver is because of its auto-complete. Other coding software have similar functions, but it's just not the same.

The program is heavily bloated for someone who simply hand codes.

...and the "bloat" is why I bought Dreamweaver.  I thought the point of Dreamweaver was to avoid, or at least minimize hand coding...but of course, I've since learned that is NOT the case.

It seems to really be mostly about hand coding, with some automated assistance.

May 10 13 09:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,082
Catskill, New York, US


I've always said it you can use MS Word you can make a website in DW. It does take a little understanding to get it set up. However, it is the industry leader and once your site is configure it's pretty easy to start building.

All you really need to know if the FTP server info, and where on your local disk you'd like to store the site(s). Everything elses is just extra fluff for now.

If I had one piece of advice I'd tell you to set up the site(s) manually and NOT to use the wizard, getting started thing.

One of the best things about DW is the thing that also makes it' confusing to people and that's the fact that it does everything.

Don't be overwhelmed. I think once you start using it you'll realize how easy it really is. Use what you need and ignore the rest for now. As you require new technologies on the site experiment and learn one thing at a time.

DW is a very powerful WYSIWYG editor which is why it's the industry standard.
May 11 13 07:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gary Melton
Posts: 6,371
Dallas, Texas, US


Aaron Lewis Photography wrote:
I've always said it you can use MS Word you can make a website in DW. It does take a little understanding to get it set up. However, it is the industry leader and once your site is configure it's pretty easy to start building.

All you really need to know if the FTP server info, and where on your local disk you'd like to store the site(s). Everything elses is just extra fluff for now.

If I had one piece of advice I'd tell you to set up the site(s) manually and NOT to use the wizard, getting started thing.

One of the best things about DW is the thing that also makes it' confusing to people and that's the fact that it does everything.

Don't be overwhelmed. I think once you start using it you'll realize how easy it really is. Use what you need and ignore the rest for now. As you require new technologies on the site experiment and learn one thing at a time.

DW is a very powerful WYSIWYG editor which is why it's the industry standard.

Yes - so far I've been trying to create my website using one of the built-in templates.  I'm thinking of starting over and creating the site from scratch...I think I'll understand all the CSS and HTML better if I create it all myself, rather than starting with something already "started".

May 11 13 08:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Aaron Lewis Photography
Posts: 5,082
Catskill, New York, US


Gary Melton wrote:

Yes - so far I've been trying to create my website using one of the built-in templates.  I'm thinking of starting over and creating the site from scratch...I think I'll understand all the CSS and HTML better if I create it all myself, rather than starting with something already "started".

Agreed. If you're going to use CSS use external style sheets. DOn't do it inline. There are a ton of great CSS references and tutorials online.

Here are a couple
http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_howto.asp
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/default.asp
http://www.csstutorial.net/css-intro/in … -part1.php

Set up DW to write compliant code to whatever standard you like. I have changed all my site to comply with HTML5

Click around in the preferences and you'll see these options and more that you may want to change or set up.

May 11 13 09:54 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Michelle Genevieve
Posts: 933
Austin, Texas, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
Don't get me started.

Oh, I agree.  Earlier versions of Dreamweaver were much easier to use.  Even CS3 (yeah, I know, I haven't bothered to upgrade for a simple HTML website application) required me to buy a book to get through building a page, and that was still a struggle.

For my model page I use a Dreamweaver-made HTML site for simplicity, but my photo site is Flash.  I don't really care that iPads won't see it; other platforms do and that's enough to make me happy.

May 11 13 10:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KevinTravers Photograpy
Posts: 2
North Yarmouth, Maine, US


I've been building sites for a living with and without dreamweaver since it first came out. I still think it is a great tool for certain things, but... Wordpress is the way to go. Instead of learning DW, learn how to customize a theme or build your own. It's what I do for my own site. I actually manage multiple wordpress sites and themes within dreamweaver too. good luck!
May 11 13 08:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Stephen Dawson
Posts: 29,246
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Which takes more hours to learn?

Competent photography, using your camera, using strobes, using your flash, photoshop, or

building good looking web sites?

Most photographers greatly underestimate how long it takes to build a good web site. The tough part is building a good mechanism to maintain and update your portfolio.

A pro photographer really needs to hire someone.But knowing how to hire the right person is not easy for the novice. No easy answer here.

For a web site you must know CSS and HTML. That is the minimum. To add new photos, you probably need PHP, or other scripting tool, and MySQL to create an admin panel.

Adding photos from a new shoot involves uploading them to the server. Creating a new category, creating thumbnails, and getting all the hyperlinks working. That is very tedious to do manually.

Using Flikr or x360 are inexpensive alternatives to consider if you don't need a pro look and just want a gallery host.

It was not easy to become a skilled photographer. It is not easy to build a good web site, either.
May 11 13 10:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
37photog
Posts: 692
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US


Scarlett de la Calle wrote:
Fuck that. Got trained in dreamweaver hated the shit out of it. I eould build 100 websites in flash before I used it again

It would be worthless for the OP to learn Flash for website design here today, in 2013.  It's on it's way out.

Gary, I've found the "Missing Manual" series usually are good books. I think I have it for CSS, found it helpful. I agree about positioning, it's a bear to wrap my head around, I've read the chapters a couple times & grasp it, but every now & then I encounter times something won't place where I feel it should. Also the Dreamweaver for Dummies book is a good teacher, and reference book as well when you need to look up how to do something.

Overall I find Dreamweaver better for hand coding, with some minor tweaking using it's pure design/drag & drop/WYSIWYG style of editing.

Gary Melton wrote:
One question if anyone has any suggestions - the Adobe "Classroom in a Book" that I have suggests that the best way to start a website is to create the website template with the CSS code IN the .html (page) file, then once it's all set (and before converting it into a template) - move the CSS code to a separate file.

I think I read or heard this at one time as well.  It's doable, and you can then just copy & paste the css code into a .css file once complete, link it up & it should work ok.  I found though, that it never really served much purpose or helped.  Also, it can become a burden if your site grows & you still have the css code in the header section.  Then you have to replace & link the .css file on every page.  It's a bad habit to get into, I would just break it right away.


My advice to you is to build your home page & css for it (color theme, font choices, banner), so you can reuse it on all/most of your other pages.  Then build a "book page" for one of the books, with the photo, description, price etc..  Then you simply just save the page as Book1.html Book2.html Book3.html etc and change the code for the photo and rewrite the description text. Viola!   You're now taking advantage of css & writing up pages with only a few keystokes. One thing make sure you have all your links in for your navigation bar as you build your site & pages out.

Another tip is to keep pages as master copies in case you screw something up when coding or trying to insert galleries or change css things like positioning.  For instance, let's say its your About Us page.  Save a backup & call it: aboutMASTER.html   That way, if you screw up, you still have that one to start over with. Don't listen to others, Wordpress themes aren't flexible. They're good for people who can fit what they want into what it can do, but you need to really dive into the .ORG like you said to rip it apart & tear the code up & do what you want.  To be honest you'll need to know more about CSS, PHP & Javascript/Jquery to do it that way than write pages using css code.

May 12 13 07:40 pm  Link  Quote 
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