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first12
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


B R E N N A N wrote:
models aren't exactly a wealthy demographic; very, very few people do well shooting models alone.

I personally refuse to shoot llama "portfolios" for pay because it's boring for me and I've never found a llama yet who can afford a rate that would make me happy to do it!

In order to do it successfully you need to be a) willing to shoot fast and for little money with a quick turnaround, and b) to be willing to produce almost exactly the same images in a highly recognisable "signature" style for every llama. It's basically a production line of the same images day after day just with a different llama in them. Not much room for creativity or doing something different because that's not what they want - they want 2-5 of your most popular photos but with them in them instead of somebody else!


Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

May 10 13 02:47 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Phil Jones Photography wrote:
Hypothetically speaking, would you ask me to create images for you? Be honest! smile

If you're going to ask a question like that then this thread should be moved to the Critique forum as we can't discuss your work here.

B R E N N A N wrote:
Indeed. The caliber of the portfolios between the "I have paid/would pay" and the "would never pay" is interesting as well.
Drew Smith Photography wrote:
borat

Yes, isn't it ironic.

+1 lol



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

May 10 13 02:49 am  Link  Quote 
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Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
1

I personally refuse to shoot llama "portfolios" for pay because it's boring for me and I've never found a llama yet who can afford a rate that would make me happy to do it!

In order to do it successfully you need to be a) willing to shoot fast and for little money with a quick turnaround, and b) to be willing to produce almost exactly the same images in a highly recognisable "signature" style for every llama. It's basically a production line of the same images day after day just with a different llama in them. Not much room for creativity or doing something different because that's not what they want - they want 2-5 of your most popular photos but with them in them instead of somebody else!


Just my $0.02

Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

okay, the moneypart and the boringpart I get. But the "signature style" part, and the "production line" part? You have a highy recognizable signature style, I'm sure (if you wanted) you could easily produce quality images of (semi-)nude fashiony black and whites. it's not like your style is all over the place wink.

May 10 13 02:50 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25,319
Bath, England, United Kingdom


Anna Adrielle wrote:
You have a highy recognizable signature style, I'm sure (if you wanted) you could easily produce quality images of (semi-)nude fashiony black and whites. it's not like your style is all over the place wink.

You're too kind - thanks smile

Sadly though, I'm not interested in churning out lacklustre facsimiles of my best work day after day - especially for the kind of money most models could afford to pay!



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

May 10 13 02:55 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:
You're too kind - thanks smile

Sadly though, I'm not interested in churning out lacklustre facsimiles of my best work day after day - especially for the kind of money most models could afford to pay!



Ciao
Stefano

www.stefanobrunesci.com

oh, that I can agree with smile. just not that you wouldn't be ABLE to do it wink.
My boyfriend shoots tests with plus models. We do shootingdays, 4-5 models in one day, the pay is decent. Plusmodels (unlike "regular" models) still tend to pay for tests. But he has a regular job next to that, so it's not like he HAS to shoot to make a living... that would really suck the fun right out of it! And yes it's not the most interesting shoots in the world either... a lot of repetition.

May 10 13 02:58 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Phil Jones Photography
Posts: 30
Basildon, England, United Kingdom


-B-R-U-N-E-S-C-I- wrote:

If you're going to ask a question like that then this thread should be moved to the Critique forum as we can't discuss your work here.

Ooops!! I'm new to forums, so let's pretend I never mentioned it! smile

May 10 13 03:08 am  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,840
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Phil Jones Photography wrote:

This is something that is said to me a lot by friends and family, especially when I work for TFP and they find it hard to understand why I work for free.

Interesting that all the feedback so far is from models based in the USA and Canada, no UK models where I'm based.

Thanks for the feedback and being so open and honest. I'll make sure I will have a look at everyones portfolio soon so I can see the quality and type of images you have in your portfolio.

I think a lot of people don't really understand TF.
You're not working for free, you're working for pictures that you can use in your portfolio. That's what I always tell people. TF is, I model for the photographer and he gives me pictures from our shoot. If I'm being paid for my time, my compensation is going to be money; not pictures.

May 10 13 06:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Phil Jones Photography
Posts: 30
Basildon, England, United Kingdom


I couldn't agree more!
May 10 13 06:36 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LaurensAntoine 4 FHM
Posts: 340
San Diego, California, US


Meghan Hale wrote:
Some people have been claiming that me saying I'd never pay a photographer was a bit.... rude? But I am a 16 year old girl without a real job (though I am looking) so I cannot afford one even if I wanted to. But in the future I would. Just no time soon.

There was nothing rude about it at all. Not having money, or just modeling for fun are perfectly good reasons to not pay to get professional pictures.

However, your statement "I'm a model and I think I can help a photographer benefit his portfolio" is presumptuous. The only photographers whose portfolios you can enhance to the point of making it worth working for free would be beginners, or professional photographers that normally work in a different field. 

I don't think anyone would take offense to a 16 year old not being able to afford to pay someone for just about anything.

May 10 13 09:05 am  Link  Quote 
Model
MJ The Model
Posts: 1
Charlotte, North Carolina, US


May 10 13 09:07 am  Link  Quote 
Model
The Original Sin
Posts: 13,894
Louisville, Kentucky, US


As soon as I can afford to, I intend to pay a photographer to fly up and visit me and hopefully shoot.  Does that count?

TBF- he's the person I have had the most consistently beautiful images with and happens to be one of the people I consider to be friends (and there are not many of those in this world).
May 10 13 10:32 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LUKOMSKI
Posts: 19
London, England, United Kingdom


Meghan Hale wrote:
I've never paid and never will. I'm a model and I think I can help a photographer benefit his portfolio as well, so I always do TFP.

.

In real business its not about Portfolio but about money ... I believe as real model you never worked as the real model.

May 12 13 04:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tony Lawrence
Posts: 19,068
Chicago, Illinois, US


Meghan Hale wrote:
I've never paid and never will. I'm a model and I think I can help a photographer benefit his portfolio as well, so I always do TFP.

But I honestly would work with you in a heartbeat.

I seem to recall you're going to NY soon.   If a agency likes your look and suggests you shoot with some of their people you may be expected to pay the photographers.   Odds are it won't be free nor are many of those who produce the kind of work that many of the agencies need and want.   I understand how you feel but most of the folks who do this for a living won't shoot you TF.   Won't happen.

May 12 13 04:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BrooklynHill
Posts: 4,790
Los Angeles, California, US


B R E N N A N wrote:

Indeed. The caliber of the portfolios between the "I have paid/would pay" and the "would never pay" is interesting as well.

Haha! Amen

May 12 13 07:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Gaskell
Posts: 7
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Photog Ed Devereaux wrote:
Simple - if the model wants to use them commercially outside of their portfolio and self marketing - then they should pay like any other client.

Absolutely.

May 12 13 07:47 am  Link  Quote 
Model
ginger_S
Posts: 40
Los Angeles, California, US


I have a nice little list of photogs I would pay to shoot with if we're in the same area, or if I'm not broke...

I'm never happy just doing tf or paid gigs. I want to make awesome pieces and if I have to pay, then I will. I've paid and then gotten tf work from them because we got on so well.
May 13 13 01:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


Models that earn four figure sums still need to pay for a shoot sometimes and for different reasons, the two most common I've seen are changes of hair or the model working in a commercial field and wanting more editorial or "edgy" or a different level in their portfolio.
May 13 13 03:19 am  Link  Quote 
Admin
IB William
Posts: 155
Agoura Hills, California, US


Post hidden on May 13, 2013 11:00 am
Reason: other
May 13 13 11:00 am  Link 
Photographer
Phil Jones Photography
Posts: 30
Basildon, England, United Kingdom


Rollo David Snook wrote:
changes of hair or the model working in a commercial field and wanting more editorial or "edgy" or a different level in their portfolio.

I usually get asked to shoot a model if they change their hair or they want more commercial images. I've personally found more edgy shoots are for their own personal use or for the fun of taking the shot. I guess it really depends on the shot and the model.

May 14 13 05:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BT Imagery
Posts: 1,017
Cedar Falls, Iowa, US


JadeDRed wrote:
When i'm working my portfolio is usually being updated all by itself. So neither.

How's that? If you're working you're being paid, right? So how are you getting new images, are you paying the photographer for them or lowering your rates in exchange for said images or...?

May 14 13 05:43 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,094
Miami, Florida, US


Biggs Photography wrote:

How's that? If you're working you're being paid, right? So how are you getting new images, are you paying the photographer for them or lowering your rates in exchange for said images or...?

Can't speak for Jade, but for me even when I'm paid by a photographer I get images to use. Guess it depends on what is agreed.

May 14 13 07:00 am  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,840
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Biggs Photography wrote:
How's that? If you're working you're being paid, right? So how are you getting new images, are you paying the photographer for them or lowering your rates in exchange for said images or...?

In a lot of the cases where I'm paid for a shoot - the photographer will also give me images.
I don't ask for them and I don't expect them, but I also don't complain if they give me a copy of them. It's like a nice bonus and let's me know that the photographer liked them enough that he wanted to share them with me. smile

May 14 13 07:10 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Carolina Goddess
Posts: 146
Augusta, Georgia, US


I haven't paid a photographer yet. But I would gladly pay Stefano and give him my first born child if he would do me the honor of being in front of his camera!
May 14 13 07:20 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sabine Luise
Posts: 890
Boston, Massachusetts, US


I think you can tell which ones are paid for and which ones are not in my port. Or, maybe not. big_smile

For one, I only pay someone who has experience working with plus size women. With having to pay for dance photos for years with my dance studio I attended I kind of learned that lesson along time ago. Lol! They are most like school photos. >.
May 14 13 10:32 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Meghan Hale
Posts: 335
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


And a few people have mentioned to me on this thread that a lot of people would not work TF with me, though I do seem to find a lot of TF work with some great photographers, and have also been paid before.
May 15 13 06:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,094
Miami, Florida, US


I've been seriously considering saving up a lot of money and paying someone to add quality to my "amateur" port. But I've read somewhere in this forum that models that are 5'2" should hold on to their money, and not be tempted to develop a professional book. Now I'm all sorts of confused
May 16 13 07:31 am  Link  Quote 
Model
sasweets
Posts: 404
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


Danielle Reid wrote:
I've been seriously considering saving up a lot of money and paying someone to add quality to my "amateur" port. But I've read somewhere in this forum that models that are 5'2" should hold on to their money, and not be tempted to develop a professional book. Now I'm all sorts of confused

You just need quality images, really, if you're signed or you want them for yourself to see if you can model at a different level.

Edit: I only know one chick that is trying to make money at this height. And she is really struggling but she kind of made it work but ya only person I've seen that's really pushed for it at that height.

May 16 13 07:39 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,094
Miami, Florida, US


sasweets wrote:
You just need quality images, really, if you're signed or you want them for yourself to see if you can model at a different level.

Edit: I only know one chick that is trying to make money at this height. And she is really struggling but she kind of made it work but ya only person I've seen that's really pushed for it at that height.

Well like all the photographers here have said, if you're not an agency model or the size of an NBA player, then you might as well just be a Facebook model with pretty photos.

May 16 13 07:48 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Gina Dee
Posts: 314
BRONX, New York, US


I'm a MUA turned part time model who stumbled into it. I did a couple of TFP shoots with a photographer I knew, did a couple of topless, a few nudes and put up a MM profile. Since then I've been offered as much as $1,700 to shoot, offered casting calls from a couple of reputable magz and I turn away more gigs than I take. I haven't been in it for a year yet.

Why start paying now when I'm already getting paid more than I'm willing to pay somebody else?
May 16 13 07:58 am  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,840
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Danielle Reid wrote:
I've been seriously considering saving up a lot of money and paying someone to add quality to my "amateur" port. But I've read somewhere in this forum that models that are 5'2" should hold on to their money, and not be tempted to develop a professional book. Now I'm all sorts of confused

It depends on what your end goal is.

Do you want to pay said photographer because you love their work and want to work with them?

Or do you want to pay them because you want to get into fashion, glamour? Like, actual fashion/glamour work with an agency? Because if that's the case then I know why people are saying not to bother spending your money.

If it's just because you like that person and want to work with them for awesome pictures for your portfolio - then I don't see a problem.

May 16 13 08:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Danielle Reid
Posts: 4,094
Miami, Florida, US


Agency, not so much. That dream was crushed months ago and it'll never happen (thanks MM for the reality check). But to present my port to photographers and prove that I may actually fit their projects and clients' wishes, is more my end goal for paying a photographer.
May 16 13 09:04 am  Link  Quote 
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