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Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


I'd say don't count on the UK being so liberal at the moment.

While parents can be proud of daughters modelling nude at the RA, same daughter could also lose her job teaching, for modelling glamour in swimwear, this is Britain.

Bra adverts are being destroyed in Islamic areas of big cities, especially those at bus stops near mosques. Some of the population don't want to be liberal at all.

The government has cracked down on parents and photographers in the last 20 years, while in the meantime kids themselves are now posting indecent and nude images of themselves around schools, in some classes there are no kids who haven't done this.

We've seen lapdancing, poledancing, casinos, all kind of things have apparently contributed to this "raunch" culture, but it seems to be mostly youth culture and in the real world you're still going to get fired for posting your boobs on facebook.
May 15 13 10:16 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


MedievalIce wrote:
Nor am I saying that women SHOULD cover up so that they won't be bothered, but the reality is that they are hassled less when wearing the burkhah.  Not the perfect situation, or even one I would advocate, but I would certainly argue that any woman has the right to choose for herself whether she wears a burkhah.

You don't have to go to Pakistan for this, a club scene in US. Who is hassled less a woman wearing a dress that shows off her legs and cleavage or a woman wearing say pants and a top? Which one gets more attention from the opposite sex?

May 15 13 10:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PTPhotoUT
Posts: 1,934
Salt Lake City, Utah, US


Jerry Nemeth wrote:
There are many US models who are not hung up on nudity.
I photographed this model an hour after I met her.  She asked me to shoot her.

18+
http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/32280975

She has trouble keeping her clothes on. Which is great news for those who shoot nudes. She is a good model and fun to work with.

May 15 13 10:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
J M
Posts: 372
Adelaide, South Australia, Australia


GRMACK wrote:

We had a similar exhibit at the local college.  It got shut down early due to elementary school kids on field trips going through the college gallery and parents complaining.  All it takes is one with a very loud mouth to shut something down.  Local high school art show also got shut down in the past few weeks for their students nude art paintings, and some with gun drawings in them too which seemed much worse on the news.  May as well cover the entire gallery in a concrete fig leaf.

American's are just uptight, imho, and only getting worse.  If you ever been approached by a cop, security, campus police, forest law enforcement, or park ranger for photographing something, then you'll know how uptight we really are: "Do you have a commercial filming permit, and a $1 million liability bond on file with us too?"

We take paranoia and P.C. stuff to a whole new level.

I thought "
What do You think about the sculpture below?" was a joke, I didn't realise you were being serious? The galleries here have much more nude and even sexualised exhibitions...that are open to people of all ages.

May 15 13 10:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MedievalIce
Posts: 193
Ithaca, New York, US


Miroslava Svoboda wrote:
You don't have to go to Pakistan for this, a club scene in US. Who is hassled less a woman wearing a dress that shows off her legs and cleavage or a woman wearing say pants and a top? Which one gets more attention from the opposite sex?

Somewhere I have a newspaper photo (pre internet) of a protest in Pakistan with a "woman" in a burkhah, when the reality is that it was a male, African-American friend of mine from NYC.  smile  So I wonder how many of the people in burkhahs are actually women.

May 15 13 10:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dave McDermott
Posts: 245
Coill Dubh, Kildare, Ireland


Miroslava Svoboda wrote:

You don't have to go to Pakistan for this, a club scene in US. Who is hassled less a woman wearing a dress that shows off her legs and cleavage or a woman wearing say pants and a top? Which one gets more attention from the opposite sex?

How would the men be perceived for approaching the scantily clad women and trying it on? Would it be considered more creepy than in some European countries? Maybe the attitudes towards men in the US are slightly different.

May 15 13 10:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


Dave McDermott wrote:
How would the men be perceived for approaching the scantily clad women and trying it on? Would it be considered more creepy than in some European countries? Maybe the attitudes towards men in the US are slightly different.

Try on what?

May 15 13 10:39 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,760
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


Anton Velleman wrote:
My opinion is that it's a cultural issue and perception of the society in which people live. In the US nudity is censored, and associated with sex. In Europe nudity is associated with beauty. If you go to South Beach Miami you see a lot of guys taking pics of topless girls on the beach. It's as if people in the US don't know what to do when they see nudity. In Europe, everyone minds their own business on the beach, and enjoys the beauty around them.

cough *cliche* cough :p

May 15 13 10:41 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


Dave McDermott I would go out on a limb here and assume were you talking about men wearing burkhas. Well it would be comical if a man wanted to wear a club dress because clearly there is no purpose to it. A man wearing a burkha does make a whole lot of sense however, it's done for privacy and anonymity.
May 15 13 10:49 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Big A-Larger Than Life
Posts: 33,393
The Woodlands, Texas, US


Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
In the early 1600's the European's kicked out a bunch of the wacko religious nuts and forced them to move to the 'new world'. Those annoying folks felt that it was their duty to tell everybody how to live their lives and it didn't go over very well with others.

They survived the trip and brought their up-tight morality with them. It became the foundation for the current anti-nudity and anti-sexuality attitudes that we are still suffering with today.

We refer to them as the 'Pilgrims or Puritans' and once a year eat a turkey to remember that they didn't starve to death, as many people had hoped they would.

Things now would certainly be different if they had . . . .

KM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  You're a fun history teacher.  Teach me more.  big_smilebig_smilebig_smile

May 15 13 10:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 11,568
Atlanta, Georgia, US


BeautybyGod wrote:

they had that very same comment on a rick steves travel show on europe.

it's pretty sad.

nobody in their right mind could call restricting access to museum art 'enlightened'.

Great, another show I like to watch has the same issues...

May 15 13 11:03 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Dave McDermott
Posts: 245
Coill Dubh, Kildare, Ireland


Miroslava Svoboda wrote:
Dave McDermott I would go out on a limb here and assume were you talking about men wearing burkhas. Well it would be comical if a man wanted to wear a club dress because clearly there is no purpose to it. A man wearing a burkha does make a whole lot of sense however, it's done for privacy and anonymity.

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear enough there. No I meant as in hitting on the woman, flirting etc, Because I've heard a lot of American men say that the European women would be more laid back and approachable. So maybe they're more laid back about posing nude too.

May 15 13 11:14 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,722
London, England, United Kingdom


...because we draw big giant WILLYS in the countryside!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dorset/content/images/2007/08/10/homer_chalk1_470_470x300.jpg
May 15 13 11:22 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


Dave McDermott wrote:
Sorry, I probably wasn't clear enough there. No I meant as in hitting on the woman, flirting etc, Because I've heard a lot of American men say that the European women would be more laid back and approachable. So maybe they're more laid back about posing nude too.

Approachable for conversation perhaps but that's not what I mean. Last time I was "hassled" at a club my dress was barely higher than my knees, my boobs were completely covered, and the only thing it had was a low scooped back with a wide, bejeweled striped along the spine to call it sexy. I was there with a man but had to go to the ladies room, some idiot actually grabbed me twice quiet inappropriately, if it wasn't so damn crowded and I could have figured out which one it was i would have definitely made it painful for  him.
From now on it's pants to clubs big_smile

May 15 13 11:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 11,568
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Darren Brade wrote:
...because we draw big giant WILLYS in the countryside!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dorset/content/images/2007/08/10/homer_chalk1_470_470x300.jpg

But we drew one on Mars for the win big_smile

May 15 13 11:32 am  Link  Quote 
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Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,438
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


SG-4 Photography wrote:
Just think of America  as way more enlightened than the Europeans.

http://studio36.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mouse_laughing.gif

Studio36

May 15 13 11:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


AJScalzitti wrote:

But we drew one on Mars for the win big_smile

Where? I want to see that one? big_smile

May 15 13 11:38 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 21,438
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna


MedievalIce wrote:
I actually understand that toplessness and public nudity are actually trending down in most parts of Europe these days.  So kid-friendly beaches may have been part of it, but times are changing as well.

Nude beaches are, broadly speaking, considered kid friendly in Europe. The dunes behind the beaches, however, maybe not so much. The downward trend in beach nudity is partially a product of current fashion, or rather of having a deep a tan falling out of fashion, and partially, and in combination, a much heightened awareness of the potential for skin cancer among the lighter skinned inhabitants of the northern latitudes.

But still, one need not go all that far to find a nude, or at least nude friendly, fully maintained public beach. The same can't be said of the US.

BTW, I was out to McDonalds this very day and along comes a 40(ish) shaven headed M in full drag and plenty of "slap" [makeup]... right there, big as life, sitting down to eat his Happy Meal in amongst all the moms, dads and kiddies? And? He was just another customer. Absolutely no big deal at all! Absolutely no one hid their kids eyes or hustled them out of the place... or said an "off" word to him either. Don't think you'd see much of THAT in America. LOL

Studio36

May 15 13 11:42 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bidewell photography
Posts: 643
Albuquerque, New Mexico, US


Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
In the early 1600's the European's kicked out a bunch of the wacko religious nuts and forced them to move to the 'new world'. Those annoying folks felt that it was their duty to tell everybody how to live their lives and it didn't go over very well with others.

They survived the trip and brought their up-tight morality with them. It became the foundation for the current anti-nudity and anti-sexuality attitudes that we are still suffering with today.

We refer to them as the 'Pilgrims or Puritans' and once a year eat a turkey to remember that they didn't starve to death, as many people had hoped they would.

Things now would certainly be different if they had . . . .




KM

how perfectly and eloquently stated. One hundred percent correct.

May 15 13 11:43 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
MedievalIce
Posts: 193
Ithaca, New York, US


studio36uk wrote:
Nude beaches are, broadly speaking, considered kid friendly in Europe. The downward trend is partially fashion, or rather of having a deep a tan falling out of fashion, and partially, and in combination, a much heightened awareness of the potential for skin cancer.

But still, one need not go all that far to find a nude, or at least nude friendly, fully maintained public beach. The same can't be said of the US.

BTW, I was out to McDonalds this very day and along comes a 40(ish) shaven headed M in full drag and plenty of "slap" [makeup]... right there, big as life, sitting down to eat his Happy Meal in amongst all the moms, dads and kiddies? And? He was just another customer. Absolutely no big deal at all! Absolutely no one hid their kids eyes or hustled them out of the place... or said a word to him either. Don't think you'd see much of THAT in America. LOL

Studio36

I would generally agree with everything you said about beaches over there.  And of course it's going to vary from country to country.  I've seen a lot less nudity on Spanish beaches in my recent trips there than I did in the early 90's - for whatever reason.

And you may actually be surprised what you'll see over here too.  I'd be shocked to see what you described in Alabama, but it would be nearly as uncommon in a place like San Francisco or New York City.  And it makes me wonder if it would be less likely to occur in Alabama or somewhere like the north of Greece.  smile

May 15 13 11:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Paul Pickard
Posts: 366
Stafford, England, United Kingdom


They were born that way
May 15 13 12:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 25,940
Dearborn, Michigan, US


PTPhotoUT wrote:

She has trouble keeping her clothes on. Which is great news for those who shoot nudes. She is a good model and fun to work with.

She also is originally from Utah.   smile

May 15 13 06:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 11,568
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Miroslava Svoboda wrote:
Where? I want to see that one? big_smile

http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/2B/CFD6C91C5592D054878F8F5F811777_h316_w628_m5_clcvWZLVW.jpg

May 15 13 06:20 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BIP
Posts: 3,657
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


The more pertinent question is
"Why are Americans so hung up about nudity"?
May 15 13 06:31 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Will Snizek Photography
Posts: 1,386
Beckley, West Virginia, US


Americans think nudity is dirty.
May 15 13 06:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
rp_photo
Posts: 42,470
Houston, Texas, US


Eros Studios wrote:
Just wondering what other's take is on this...

\

Their attitude is healthier than ours.

Meanwhile, we Americans are having to deal with "bad" Liberalism without the benefits of "good" Liberalism such as tolerance of nudity.

May 15 13 06:51 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,561
Phoenix, Arizona, US


It's just not true. I read all the time about how the US is prudish and puritanical.. And then I see a thread form a Canadian, Brit, Aussie.. about how their family doesn't approve. Euros is just as puritanical as we are.
May 15 13 07:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BIP
Posts: 3,657
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


John Jebbia wrote:
It's just not true. I read all the time about how the US is prudish and puritanical.. And then I see a thread form a Canadian, Brit, Aussie.. about how their family doesn't approve. Euros is just as puritanical as we are.

In general it is true
I lived in the states for 11 years

May 15 13 07:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Ken Marcus Studios
Posts: 8,353
Los Angeles, California, US


John Jebbia wrote:
And then I see a thread form a Canadian, Brit, Aussie.. about how their family doesn't approve. Euros is just as puritanical as we are.

FYI: Canada, Australia and England are NOT Europe

[England recently became part of the EU but for the last couple of thousand years were proud that they had nothing to do with the 'continent']

May 15 13 07:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Scarlett de la Calle
Posts: 414
Canberra, Australian Capital Territory, Australia


Because they are brought up to see nudity as natural where as we are brought up to see our bodies purely in a sexual way making being nude in front of a camera a bit of a taboo and something people will judge you and look down on you for doing
May 15 13 07:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJScalzitti
Posts: 11,568
Atlanta, Georgia, US


John Jebbia wrote:
It's just not true. I read all the time about how the US is prudish and puritanical.. And then I see a thread form a Canadian, Brit, Aussie.. about how their family doesn't approve. Euros is just as puritanical as we are.

When did those continents move?  Damn these global weather changes...

Regardless EU fashion magazines would appear to prove otherwise.

May 15 13 07:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 448
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


I haven't seen a lot of nude models here.  I live in the 'country' and not in a city where it's easier to find nude models so take it for what it's worth.  Even then, it's not like every other model in Berlin is a nude model. 

I've seen way too many nude models that look amazing close by in the Czech Republic.  The problem is their rates are so high it's unreal.  Especially considering that as of this posting, $1.00 buys 20 Czech Koruna's and 1 Euro buys 26 Czech Koruna's. 

That's been my experience so far in Europe.
May 16 13 03:03 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


David J Martin wrote:
The problem is their rates are so high it's unreal.  Especially considering that as of this posting, $1.00 buys 20 Czech Koruna's and 1 Euro buys 26 Czech Koruna's. 

That's been my experience so far in Europe.

What does the going rate have to do with their rates? Everyone charges what they think makes sense and what they think they can get big_smile

May 16 13 03:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


AJScalzitti wrote:

http://blu.stb.s-msn.com/i/2B/CFD6C91C5592D054878F8F5F811777_h316_w628_m5_clcvWZLVW.jpg

lols

May 16 13 03:33 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Miroslava Svoboda
Posts: 555
Seattle, Washington, US


I don't think you can uniformly say that in one place they are prudes and in another they are not. I have a great example actually. I'm from Ukraine and I was having a conversation with a Russian friend. The two countries are not that much different from each other and at one point as we all know were one and the same.

Friend: "Yeah we had girls on the beach topless or naked all the time. They would also jump your bones every chance they could" (granted he's a guy)
Me: "I have no clue what world you were living in, never seen it, never happened."

Of course that was 15 years ago now they run around Europe taking their clothes off and protesting who knows what. big_smile
May 16 13 03:38 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
David J Martin
Posts: 448
Amberg, Bavaria, Germany


Miroslava Svoboda wrote:
What does the going rate have to do with their rates? Everyone charges what they think makes sense and what they think they can get big_smile

I'm all about charging what you can reasonably get, but:

The prices they are charging make me wonder what services they are actually offering.  If they're significantly charging more than what the German models are asking for (Germany is an EU country and uses Euro currency, unlike Czech using the much less valuable  Koruna), and some of the profiles state specifically they don't do escort work, it makes you wonder.

May 16 13 04:53 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
PHP-Photography
Posts: 16
Vaasa, Ostrobothnia, Finland


Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
FYI: Canada, Australia and England are NOT Europe

[England recently became part of the EU but for the last couple of thousand years were proud that they had nothing to do with the 'continent']

Since when England did not belong to Europe ??????

Recently ?????

"In 1973, the UK joined the European Economic Community (EEC), and when the EEC became the European Union (EU) in 1992, it was one of the 12 founding members."

May 16 13 06:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
natural beauties of qld
Posts: 2,086
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
In the early 1600's the European's kicked out a bunch of the wacko religious nuts and forced them to move to the 'new world'. Those annoying folks felt that it was their duty to tell everybody how to live their lives and it didn't go over very well with others.

They survived the trip and brought their up-tight morality with them. It became the foundation for the current anti-nudity and anti-sexuality attitudes that we are still suffering with today.

We refer to them as the 'Pilgrims or Puritans' and once a year eat a turkey to remember that they didn't starve to death, as many people had hoped they would.

Things now would certainly be different if they had . . . .

KM

If only history was taught with your flair for insight, kids might actually understand and remember some of it, and the world would be the better for it!!

May 16 13 07:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
natural beauties of qld
Posts: 2,086
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


PHP-Photography wrote:

Since when England did not belong to Europe ??????

Recently ?????

"In 1973, the UK joined the European Economic Community (EEC), and when the EEC became the European Union (EU) in 1992, it was one of the 12 founding members."

The English consider themselves no more european than the Irish consider themselves British.

May 16 13 07:35 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
natural beauties of qld
Posts: 2,086
Brisbane, Queensland, Australia


John Jebbia wrote:
It's just not true. I read all the time about how the US is prudish and puritanical.. And then I see a thread form a Canadian, Brit, Aussie.. about how their family doesn't approve. Euros is just as puritanical as we are.

Your mark in your geography test is an F minus. 

Australia is not Austria and is as far from Europe as it is possible to be.  It is even further from Europe than the US.

May 16 13 07:40 am  Link  Quote 
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